View Full Version : Retiring Lloyd and Lucas at the end of 2009
I have been thinking about the future of our forward line in the quest to win a premiership.
The team has made significant progress in 2009 ,and I make the following observations about our structure.
- Defence is well stocked with promising key backs and smaller defenders
- Midfield is progressing well and will be more if we can find an A Grade mid.
- Forward Line has been problematic this year, and is lead by the two veterans Lloyd and Lucas.
I suggest that the forward line is the area of concern in the upcoming years.
As I see it, Lucas despite his improved form will retire at the end of 2009, and Lloyd has only one more season at the most.
I am prepared to retire Lloyd and Lucas at the end of 2009, in the expectation that it will improve our forward line in the next 2 to 3 years.
This will give EFC the opportunity to try Hurley or Daniher in the forward line in the next two years and hopefully Gumbleton will get onto the park.
This may mean some short term pain - In that EFC's rate of progress may be stymied for the next season or two, but it may set us up for our next premiership.
What are your thoughts ?
My thoughts? No way! Phase them out seperately
Agree.
Plus we have a very young team, I want them to get some finals experience as soon as possible.
Daniher, Hurley, Gumbleton are very young and won't play KP every week.
AndyLesPaul
5 Jul 2009, 09:16
Hmm, Lloyd I really don't want to see retiring at the end of the year (a la Signature)
Lucas has played well enough and it is evident he'd like to stay, it'd be unfair to force a player out of the game like that. (well Knights does do it anyway)
Also, I say we'd let the veterans retire only if our players were ready.
baby_bomber_18
5 Jul 2009, 09:46
the most insane thing ive heard all year
3 wks ago i would have said lucas has run out of gas but he has turned it around and has proven he is still a solid contributor and to even consider lloyd is rediculous. not only is he our best forward by far but is still one of the most dangerous FULL FORWARDS in the game. no fullback would enjoy playing on him out of the square yet knights doesnt seem to realise that and continues to let him roam around chf and be useless.
further beyond lloyd and lucas how can you be possibly confident in a guy that has the fitness to only play a decent quarter of footy in neagle and a potential star in gumbleton who cant get out on the field. lucas and lloyd will retire when they are no longer the best option for us in attack
windyhill
5 Jul 2009, 09:47
Absolutely no way. Hird was given the respect of when he wanted to pull up stumps so should L & L . Both players have been just as good as Hird for this football club. Some players are nudged towards retirement (J.Johnno, Pev) some are kicked out the door, the champions get to call it themselves.
Would expect both L&L to be given one year extensions.
zaharakamania
5 Jul 2009, 09:58
dont want to see either forced out at years end, so if both go on in 2010 & for examples sake Neagle, Hurley & Gumbleton are ready to go, where do they fit in? & who gets the chop?
I cant see where Scotty fits in if & when that scenario arises.
kelvin_sheedy
5 Jul 2009, 10:05
One has to go at the end of this year and to be frank I don't really care which one.
If Laycock was fit and giving something in the ruck, we could have potentially had three ruckman in the side with one sitting at FF giving us a contested marking option.
The only problem is that we have a few guys who have been constantly injured and we aren't sure about them giving us enough next year or even making it.
ManWithNoName
5 Jul 2009, 10:48
My god there's some dumb threads around this place.
ghostdog
5 Jul 2009, 11:16
It's a looming problem, but I don't think letting both go at the same time would be wise. Weeks ago I'd given up on Lucas, and he's been something of a saving grace since coming back from Bendigo. That said, Lloyd is more consistent and takes a better mark IMO. If anything I'd keep Lloyd and perhaps use Lucas as a utility if the situation calls for it.
Regardless of their inclusion in the side both are too valuable as mentors for any young forwards to let go of completely. A change of role would be more appropriate.
We need to recruit another forward. I'm still keen on making Pavlich an offer. Maybe whoever spoke with Andrew Lovett could have an effect on Barry Hall, though he probably only has a year left in him as well... The forward issue is a tough ask because if we draft a youngster we have to develop that player as well. I'd rather someone ready to go, considering where the rest of the side is at, and I think I'd rather Hurley in defence. 60 metre kick ins with accuracy is like replacing Fletcher with Fletcher.
Do we have any other players currently on our list who could be crafted for the forward line? Myers? Houli?
Besides anything else, great football clubs are made up over time of great moments - John Coleman, Dick Reynolds, Bill Hutchison, Madden/Watson/Daniher, Hird etc etc and we are on the virge of a 1000 goal goal kicker - Lloyd HAS to be given that chance. It's a one off. I know I may be old fashioned but, other than premierships (which we are still a couple of years from even contending yet), this is what makes the fabric of a great club from the "others" (..steps off soap box).
The Donners
5 Jul 2009, 11:45
What happened after Simon Madden and Terry Daniher retired in the same year?
Just a question.......
Be nice if Neagle pulled his finger and got himself super fit.
The Donners
5 Jul 2009, 12:17
Be nice if Neagle pulled his finger out and got himself super fit.
efa :thumbsu:
Dr Moose
5 Jul 2009, 12:27
God, as if we don't put enough pressure on the youngsters as it is! Imagine round 7 next year; we're sitting at 2 and 5, and everybody's calling for Knights, Neagle and Gumby to all be sacked for having shoved Lucas and Lloyd out. Lloyd isn't John Howard, he'll know when the time is right to step aside. But I can't see either of them going down that path yet, and certainly wouldn't want any other club getting them for an incredible couple of twighlight seasons like Aker has done to the Lions
The Donners
5 Jul 2009, 12:37
God, as if we don't put enough pressure on the youngsters as it is! Imagine round 7 next year; we're sitting at 2 and 5, and everybody's calling for Knights, Neagle and Gumby to all be sacked for having shoved Lucas and Lloyd out. Lloyd isn't John Howard, he'll know when the time is right to step aside. But I can't see either of them going down that path yet, and certainly wouldn't want any other club getting them for an incredible couple of twighlight seasons like Aker has done to the Lions
Kevin Sheedy
What happened after Simon Madden and Terry Daniher retired in the same year?
Just a question.......I was going to mention Lillee, Chappell and Marsh.
Puzzling thread.
Lucas will almost certainly retire at the end of the year. I think Lloyd's mentioned he intends on playing two more seasons, which would help phase in the new forwards in Gumbleton and Neagle; assuming they can stay fit.
Darealrath
5 Jul 2009, 13:25
We should keep both, they are clearly in our best 22 and their replacements have huge question marks over them.
bombers2011
5 Jul 2009, 13:25
As a side note: Lucas was just the Sunday Footy Show and when asked if he would retire he said that it was something that he had considered but that 8 weeks is a long time in football and he would weigh it up at the end of the year after a couple of finals ;)
I find some of the responses to this thread very interesting.
I have continually read posts stating that the forward line is a problem ( I agree ), criticisms of Lloyd and Lucas' performances, their reduced effect on the team performance, etc etc etc.
The fact is that they both won't be part of our next premiership, and we need to develop replacements in the forward line.
I have enough faith in the current list and with our current game plan, that I dont think EFC will go backwards in 2010, even if Lucas and Lloyd are retired.
Skeeta Olly
5 Jul 2009, 14:40
Neagle and Gumbleton have minimal experience. If both Lloyd and Lucas retire, the only experienced forward would be McPhee.
The backline can be used as an example. Fletcher has been an important key in the development of Pears, Hooker and to an extent Daniher and Hurley.
Next year, it will be important for either Lloyd, Lucas or both to help in the development or further development in Gumbleton and Neagle.
If they both retire, you lose the spine of our forward line. The first thing you do would be throwing Neagle in at full forward. He instantly attracts the best defender. Then you throw Gumbleton at centre half forward. He then attracts the second best defender. This is also under the assumption that they are fit.
Suddenly you have two inexperienced players, filling the spine of your forward line.
Two points
The proposed changes are predicated on Fletcher playing on for another two years
1) Fletcher has been in much better form than Lucas or Lloyd. There are no questions about his ability to continue playing. Lloyd can't beat the top 4 or 5 defenders in the competion, and Lucas has done marvellously well in the last 4 games, despite his current limitations.
2) The assumption is that one of Hurley or Daniher will be groomed for a KP. This still leaves Neagle ( doubt he will make it ), Gumbleton ( hopes he gets onto the field ), Still ( 2 or 3 years away ).
EFC has enough options to fill the key forward positions, although our progress may stagnate in 2010 and 2011.
Rest assured that Lucas and Lloyd will finish the season out, because EFC have a sniff of the finals ,and experienced players with hard bodies, will be preferred for the remainder of 2009.
Jonesy1987
5 Jul 2009, 16:33
With the natural progression of our midfield improving, we could potentially push top 4 next year. If our kids don't come on quick enough, we could be high and dry come September. Lloyd needs to drop the Captaincy and just focus on his own game, with the pressure off and hopefully better delivery from the middle, he should still be very damaging and allow us to develop the kids without the added pressure on them.
MarkJohnson#1
5 Jul 2009, 16:50
Unless he sustains a career threatening injury there is NO way Lloyd will retire at the end of this year. He is far too important for the development of our players and is an exceptional leader/captain at the club. Lucas may make way though his recent form has been pretty good.
Lucas and lloyd won't be part of the next premiership.
It is better to get games into the young players in 2009 and 2010.
I wouldn't mind it if Lucas retired. I love him and I think he's been playing great these last few weeks but we need to focus on Neagle and Gumby and see if we need to make any changes like bringing Hurley, Daniher or even Laycock to the forward line and sadly, Lucas is in the way right now.
I think we can trust Lloyd to help Neagle and Gumbleton out in the forward line next year with the help from McPhee, Hille and Ryder helping out as tall forwards.
As for Neagle's fitness. He missed this years pre-season so hopefully next year will help him. And with Gumbleton, I guess we'll just have to hope for the best but from what we can tell, they have a lot of potential, along with Hurley who can play forward (although honestly I'd prefer him in the backline with Pears).
If Lucas leaves I think it'd be better for the clubs future.
I would probably expect Lucas to retire at the end of the year as I think he will only get worse next year, not that he has not been serviceable this year.
Lloyd definitely will and should play on. I dont think they are major problem with out forward line a the moment. The problem is a lack of crumbers, Jetta
is out of the side but he does not kick that many goals anyway and Davey does not really circle the packs deep inside 50, often enough.
Several occasions on Friday night it was 3 on 1 against Lloyd in the marking contest and then he had to do his own roving, this should not be happening.
Apart from Jetta I can think of any options we have to help in this area.
Pevers-Legend
5 Jul 2009, 19:49
Lucas and lloyd won't be part of the next premiership.
It is better to get games into the young players in 2009 and 2010.
Because that has clearly worked for Lloyds understuffy this year!!!
Why don;t we get rid of Fletcher, McVeigh, Hille, anyone who has the slightest inkling they won't be around for our next flag.
Good to see BigFooty still believes that youth is the only important thing when deciding the future.
Hislop200
5 Jul 2009, 19:51
If Lucas was to retire it would only open up a rookie spot on the list, I know who I would rather out of Lucas and a rookie.
If Lucas doesnt perform next year or if Gumby and or Neagle are better options then they get the nod and Lucas plays for Bendigo.
bOmBeR_BoY1
5 Jul 2009, 20:00
The OP was clearly watching a different game to what I was on Friday Night and for the past couple of weeks to come out and openly suggest both Lloyd & Lucas should retire at the end of this season and both at once.
Pevers-Legend
5 Jul 2009, 20:07
The OP was clearly watching a different game to what I was on Friday Night and for the past couple of weeks to come out and openly suggest both Lloyd & Lucas should retire at the end of this season and both at once.
But don't you know, you can only win if you play youth, especially when they don't deserve a spot, nor have proved they will make it.
bOmBeR_BoY1
5 Jul 2009, 20:12
But don't you know, you can only win if you play youth, especially when they don't deserve a spot, nor have proved they will make it.
I forgot this crucial fact. Thank You for reminding me. :thumbsu:
If Lucas was to retire it would only open up a rookie spot on the list, I know who I would rather out of Lucas and a rookie.
Are you misusing the word rookie when you mean 1st year player? Because if Lucas retires it will open up a spot on the senior list, and that is not a "rookie" as the term is used in regards to AFL lists.
Because that has clearly worked for Lloyds understuffy this year!!!
Why don;t we get rid of Fletcher, McVeigh, Hille, anyone who has the slightest inkling they won't be around for our next flag.
Good to see BigFooty still believes that youth is the only important thing when deciding the future.Hilarious, isn't it. Merv used to have a great quote as his signature regarding the misconception of youth on BigFooty.
HeziBarecket
5 Jul 2009, 22:20
Once Lloyd and Lucas retire you guys will be back down bottom four since your kids will be lost without them.
bOmBeR_BoY1
5 Jul 2009, 22:25
Once Lloyd and Lucas retire you guys will be back down bottom four since your kids will be lost without them.
Wow. Even without a Lloyd & Lucas goal contribution last week, we would of only won by 40 points.
Run along, idiot. You scumbags are still no good despite a win over a decimated Fremantle today. Another game against semi-decent opposition and you'll again be on the end of another pummelling.
Duckworth
5 Jul 2009, 23:40
"only on big footy is it more important to be young than a good player... all clubs needs good players"
This is really an odd thread. Lloyd and Lucas COULD be part of our next flag opportunity... if we finish top 8 this year (possible) and we continue to improve (which is expected) then we will be at least challenging for top 4 next year. It's possible.
donsman4eva
5 Jul 2009, 23:58
As much as I hate to say it, I think Scotty will be gone by years end. If Gumby gets fit, then he will be in the team next year. Same goes with Hille, Neagle, Hurley and possibly Laycock. That is 5 big men who can possibly come into the team. Who is going to go? I can see us having a very tall best 22 next year, which just goes to show that our drafting hasnt been a complete disaster. We drafted many talls over the years and now all of a sudden, they have come good. And it is right when they needed to, with Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher winding up their careers.
The Great Barry Besanko
6 Jul 2009, 01:12
This is ridiculous. Since when is 30-31 retirement age??? Lucas missed a big whack of pre-season and now starting to find form. Lloyd still has a lot to offer and physically has shown no slow down. If players like Neagle and Gumbleton are good enough they'll force there way in.
Because that has clearly worked for Lloyds understuffy this year!!!
Why don;t we get rid of Fletcher, McVeigh, Hille, anyone who has the slightest inkling they won't be around for our next flag.
Good to see BigFooty still believes that youth is the only important thing when deciding the future.
Clearly you haven't read my post.
1) It is a discussion about how to improve the forward line that can win a premiership. As yet, nobody has come up with any constructive proposals to fix the forward line.
2) Lucas has played remarkably well in the last 4 weeks considering he has lost some of his best assets with age.
3) I state again ( as mentioned by other posters ) that Lloyd struggles to have an impact against the best 5 or 6 defenders in the AFL. Unfortunately, these defenders tend to play for the better teams in the AFL.
4) Fletcher has CLEARLY been the best performed of the 3 veterans. I haven't seen any signs of Fletcher's performance declining at all. I would expect Fletcher to play for at least 2 years after 2009.
"only on big footy is it more important to be young than a good player... all clubs needs good players"
This is really an odd thread. Lloyd and Lucas COULD be part of our next flag opportunity... if we finish top 8 this year (possible) and we continue to improve (which is expected) then we will be at least challenging for top 4 next year. It's possible.
You are in complete denial if you think that EFC could win a flag with Lucas and Lloyd in their current form, nothwithstanding that their performance will continue to decline in the next year or 2.
Lucas and Lloyd will stay in the team this year ( if their form holds up ) because EFC have a sniff of making the finals.
Beyond that, Lucas will almost certainly retire or be retired at the end of 2009.
Colin D'Cops
6 Jul 2009, 01:20
One of them in the best interests of the club, should retire at the end of '09. Yaco raises some valid points, and I believe this will be Lucas. I would be against both leaving at the same time though, would leave a too bigger hole in our forwardline IMO.
Gumbleton, Neagle, Daniher, etc need to be given game-time next season in the seniors and be given endless opportunites to cement their place in our side. If they're form doesn't warrant selection after a few weeks in the seniors, then some switching around would then be introduced of course but we must give these guys some extra game-time.
Lloyd has a few years left in him.
Lucas I don't know. He's been poor for a while, but his last two games he's be getting better and it is possible that he could get back to some really good for by the end of the year. I'd want him to play on if he did so.
I would consider Lloyd a chance to play beyond 2010 so why would he retire this year?
bombre-boy
6 Jul 2009, 10:27
This is ridiculous. Since when is 30-31 retirement age??? Lucas missed a big whack of pre-season and now starting to find form. Lloyd still has a lot to offer and physically has shown no slow down. If players like Neagle and Gumbleton are good enough they'll force there way in.
Totally agreed...
Lucas is better than most on our list at the moment...
Would be a bone headed thing to force him to retire.
Different situation If Scott he wants to go though.
ghostdog
6 Jul 2009, 12:53
Totally agreed...
Lucas is better than most on our list at the moment...
Would be a bone headed thing to force him to retire.
Different situation If Scott he wants to go though.
Retirement age he may not be, but the appropriate age to be showing premiership winning form for a forward? I think not. Yesterday Cam Mooney sprinted and dived probably three or more metres to mark in the forward fifty. Sorry, I just can't see Lucas doing that kind of stuff next year or beyond.
Pevers-Legend
6 Jul 2009, 17:00
Retirement age he may not be, but the appropriate age to be showing premiership winning form for a forward? I think not. Yesterday Cam Mooney sprinted and dived probably three or more metres to mark in the forward fifty. Sorry, I just can't see Lucas doing that kind of stuff next year or beyond.
comparing Cam Mooney with Scotty - poor choice.
If Scotty played for Geelong he would have 50 goals on the baord from the silver service.
Has anyone forgotten that Lucas has played injured this year with his tennis elbow and has stuggled to drop the ball correctly.
Yes he and Lloyd may not be spring chickens and aren't speedsters - but they provide a better contest than anyone else on the list up forward.
Fact is - if the young players can't kick L & L out of the team - considering how bad some say they are - what does that say about our much vaunted youth. We keep em until they either go or someone steps up.
Pevers-Legend
6 Jul 2009, 17:06
Clearly you haven't read my post.
1) It is a discussion about how to improve the forward line that can win a premiership. As yet, nobody has come up with any constructive proposals to fix the forward line.
Look at the title of your thread and this comment. As some have said - why couln't we pinch a flag in the 2 years? Both could be around for that. Who says we have the cattle out of the team to be good enough to replace them adequately anyway.
2) Lucas has played remarkably well in the last 4 weeks considering he has lost some of his best assets with age.
Proving he can still be on the list. Give him a proper pre-seaosn and we'll see what he can do.
3) I state again ( as mentioned by other posters ) that Lloyd struggles to have an impact against the best 5 or 6 defenders in the AFL. Unfortunately, these defenders tend to play for the better teams in the AFL.
Better disposal into the F50 might also help. He ain;t going to kick a bag, but does he or Scotty for that matter have to to win?
4) Fletcher has CLEARLY been the best performed of the 3 veterans. I haven't seen any signs of Fletcher's performance declining at all. I would expect Fletcher to play for at least 2 years after 2009.
Agreed. He is a super-freak.
You have answered your own question.
Lucas and Lloyd cant compete today with the 5 or 6 elite key backs in the competition.
EFC are unlikely to make it to a GF with our current forward line.
Skeeta Olly
6 Jul 2009, 21:42
You have answered your own question.
Lucas and Lloyd cant compete today with the 5 or 6 elite key backs in the competition.
EFC are unlikely to make it to a GF with our current forward line.
We are less likely to make it with Neagle and Gumbleton currently.
You have answered your own question.
Lucas and Lloyd cant compete today with the 5 or 6 elite key backs in the competition.
EFC are unlikely to make it to a GF with our current forward line.
Seriously?
Lloyd is still better than anything Geelong or WB have for a leading marking forward. More consistent than Kosi for the Saints in overall efforts, if not goals, would be ahead of Cloke at Collingwood, more reliable and a better team player than Fev, better than Hall or Micky O, better than Lynch or Kennedy at WCE, better than anyone North has, and streets ahead of Melbourne and Freemantle.
Anyone who thinks Lloyd isn't good enough to be in a Premiership side at the moment really has no idea. He is a champion player, a team player, a consistent goal kicker, and is still one of the most reliable Full Forwards in the league.
Of the other Full Forwards (Not Half Forwards) in the league these have kicked more than Lloyd:
Hall - Who would have him in a side over Lloyd? Not a team player, not focused enough, and nowhere near as consistent.
Kozi - Kozi isn't exactly a whole heap better than Lloyd, though you'd probably prefer him.
Franklin
Roughead
Fev - Is not a team player, lets himself down with his discipline and can be a liability more than you would like.
Of those players I would only pick Franklin, Roughead and Kozi ahead of Lloyd, and only Franklin is clearly far ahead.
Anyone who thinks Lloyd shouldn't play on for another two years given his current form, fitness, leadership and professionalism is kidding themselves.
Lucas isn't as clear because he doesn't play FF and he's got more obvious weaknesses, but even still he's better than Mooney!
ghostdog
6 Jul 2009, 22:14
comparing Cam Mooney with Scotty - poor choice.
If Scotty played for Geelong he would have 50 goals on the baord from the silver service.
Has anyone forgotten that Lucas has played injured this year with his tennis elbow and has stuggled to drop the ball correctly.
Yes he and Lloyd may not be spring chickens and aren't speedsters - but they provide a better contest than anyone else on the list up forward.
Fact is - if the young players can't kick L & L out of the team - considering how bad some say they are - what does that say about our much vaunted youth. We keep em until they either go or someone steps up.
No, it's not a poor choice for comparison. A premiership winning forward would be able to get to space to take that mark, from that delivery, under pressure situations such as that which Cam Mooney was under on the weekend. They would be able to do that time and again throughout the season. That's what premiership winning form is all about.
While Lucas may have been kicking goals recently, it hasn't been against premiership class opposition. Likewise, Geelong haven't played premiership class opposition week in week out, so yes, he could have had fifty goals on the board.
My point is that I don't have the confidence he could match it with the best in a Grand Final, or maybe even in a final depending on his opponent.
As much as I respect and admire him, if we consider ourselves contenders in the next few years, on game day I wouldn't be as confident with a player like Lucas as we know him today as I would a player like Cam Mooney. Run a poll if you like. I reckon most would trade Lucas for Mooney or Stevie J today if they could, because of the potential they have in the context of the team's progress.
FWIW, I didn't suggest we should get rid of them, and recently recanted my premature claim that Lucas was finished.
Windas_Magic
6 Jul 2009, 22:33
What a stupid suggestion.
What do you want us to do, expect Neagle and Gumby to hold down key posts against the opposition best defenders every week? That sounds great doesn't it, especially if they're unable to get out on the park.
I think Lucas will retire at the end of this season but Lloydy still has another season (or two at most) left in him.
Longy413
6 Jul 2009, 22:47
Has anyone forgotten that Lucas has played injured this year with his tennis elbow and has stuggled to drop the ball correctly.
Maybe they haven't forgotten and that's why they are questioning his position on the list for next season?
ghostdog
6 Jul 2009, 23:01
What a stupid suggestion.
What do you want us to do, expect Neagle and Gumby to hold down key posts against the opposition best defenders every week? That sounds great doesn't it, especially if they're unable to get out on the park.
I think Lucas will retire at the end of this season but Lloydy still has another season (or two at most) left in him.
I wouldn't expect that at all yet. I'm simply suggesting that Lucas doesn't have what it takes to compete with forwards from sides who are premiership contenders. I also expect his retirement sooner rather than later. What the solution is so we remain competitive enough to continue to push for finals next year and so on, I'm not so sure.
Windas_Magic
6 Jul 2009, 23:14
I wouldn't expect that at all yet. I'm simply suggesting that Lucas doesn't have what it takes to compete with forwards from sides who are premiership contenders. I also expect his retirement sooner rather than later. What the solution is so we remain competitive enough to continue to push for finals next year and so on, I'm not so sure.
My post wasn't directed at you, but rather the OP.
Houli to Neagle
7 Jul 2009, 08:21
I think Scotty should retire at the end of this season.
Lloyd has another year or two left in him.
Gumby hopegully will be super fit and ready to go in 2010 and will step up and do the job that Scotty can/is currently doing.
My real concern is Neagle - The club MUST address his work rate because it is no where near AFL standard.
Neagle has to have a massive pre season in terms of his fitness, if he can fix this area of his game he will be an absolute monster forward with great hands and a beautiful kick at goal.:thumbsu:
Phat Toni
7 Jul 2009, 08:33
Be nice if Neagle pulled his finger and got himself super fit.
Just 'fit' would be a good start
Phat Toni
7 Jul 2009, 08:58
Reading through the thread there are some good for and some good against arguments for sending the two champs out to pasture.
I think to have a team that can play and maybe win a final a team needs about six individual 20+ goal scorers for the season and at least one 50+ goal scorer(included in the six 20+ group). The problem I see with sending Lucus and Lloyd out to pasture is that none of Neagle, Gumby, 28DD's or Hurley are ready to take the mantel as a 50+ goal kicker in the sort term, so if we (and I mean everybody who wants us to play finals this year and next) are to be giving the 'kids' finals experience it isn't going to happen without one or both of the champs.
Tony Delaney
7 Jul 2009, 12:28
Lucas i think we can see has slowed down significantly probably not helped by some brain dead decision to not give him a tough pre season so i think he will make the decision towards the end of the year.
Re Lloyd get serious, the guy is a champion, just over 30 yo and playing some very good football. How about you just watch him and enjoy him in the red and black as long as possible. The benefits of having someone like Lloyd to teach the young players is huge. Perhaps Neagle might start chasing and tackling if he plays alongside him a little more.
And on the future I have my fingers crossed but is Gumbleton going to come up ever. 3 years of injuries might suggest his body is not suited to AFL. I hope not but one thing after another and 3 years later....
There is no reason that Essendon cannot start 2010 with both Lloyd and Lucas on the list.
Everyone seems to think that Lloyd has a few years left in him (which Lloydy himself has confirmed) meaning that the pressure is then placed on Lucas to retire. Lucas has shown a willingness to play at Bendigo after being dropped. Surely we could keep him on the list as insurance (in a similar way Collingwood kept Wakelin on last year). If we get an injury or form allows for it Lucase could play when the conditions and team balance mean that he we could get the best out of him.
A few pages back a few posters were having a laugh about the youth obsession (although I think it goes a long way beyond Big Footy) in the AFL. It was spot on. There are ways that Essendon acts and we have, for the most part, avoided blindly following trends. I just cannot see how Essendon is a better side in 2010 without Lloyd and Lucas. That is what is important. Premierships can be won ahead of time and it is not as rediculous as people may think that we could be in a position to steal a flag next year.
Too often the value of a jumper is destroyed by 'getting games into the kids'. The kids should be made to earn their position in the side. The two best sides in the competition have not moved on any players because of age. The other thing is that there is fierce compeition for spots. The development of a strong culture is too oftern ignored. I have gone from not caring about Melbourne to despising their pathetic position within the competition. They are a bunch of irrelevant loosers who have taken a path that is unacceptable for a club like Essendon. Ultimately the presence of two champions in our forward line will accelerate the development of Gumbleton and Neagle.
The reality is that Gumbleton has played a handful of games in three years and Neagle is unfit. I don't like the pressure placed on Gumbleton or the message sent to Neagle. Had they both performed at a reasonable level this year (Neagle may still) retirements may have been an option (though I wouldn't have liked it).
I really hope that they ask Lucas to go on next year in a limited role. It is only one spot on the list that is being taken and you woudl think that the sacrifice is worth it given the numbers of players who don't make it.
Edit: the thing I forgot was that Lloyd can still beat the best defenders. He killed Presti in one on one contests but failed to convert. The only issue with Lloyd is the kicking which is no where near as reliable as it used to be.
There is no reason that Essendon cannot start 2010 with both Lloyd and Lucas on the list.
Everyone seems to think that Lloyd has a few years left in him (which Lloydy himself has confirmed) meaning that the pressure is then placed on Lucas to retire. Lucas has shown a willingness to play at Bendigo after being dropped. Surely we could keep him on the list as insurance (in a similar way Collingwood kept Wakelin on last year). If we get an injury or form allows for it Lucase could play when the conditions and team balance mean that he we could get the best out of him.
A few pages back a few posters were having a laugh about the youth obsession (although I think it goes a long way beyond Big Footy) in the AFL. It was spot on. There are ways that Essendon acts and we have, for the most part, avoided blindly following trends. I just cannot see how Essendon is a better side in 2010 without Lloyd and Lucas. That is what is important. Premierships can be won ahead of time and it is not as rediculous as people may think that we could be in a position to steal a flag next year.
Too often the value of a jumper is destroyed by 'getting games into the kids'. The kids should be made to earn their position in the side. The two best sides in the competition have not moved on any players because of age. The other thing is that there is fierce compeition for spots. The development of a strong culture is too oftern ignored. I have gone from not caring about Melbourne to despising their pathetic position within the competition. They are a bunch of irrelevant loosers who have taken a path that is unacceptable for a club like Essendon. Ultimately the presence of two champions in our forward line will accelerate the development of Gumbleton and Neagle.
The reality is that Gumbleton has played a handful of games in three years and Neagle is unfit. I don't like the pressure placed on Gumbleton or the message sent to Neagle. Had they both performed at a reasonable level this year (Neagle may still) retirements may have been an option (though I wouldn't have liked it).
I really hope that they ask Lucas to go on next year in a limited role. It is only one spot on the list that is being taken and you woudl think that the sacrifice is worth it given the numbers of players who don't make it.
Edit: the thing I forgot was that Lloyd can still beat the best defenders. He killed Presti in one on one contests but failed to convert. The only issue with Lloyd is the kicking which is no where near as reliable as it used to be.
Your are missing the thrust of my argument.
Lloyd was beaten by Presti on the night which doesnt constitute dominating your opponent.
I want posters to show me how often the two L's have dominated in the last 2 years and name me elite defenders they have comprehensively beaten.
Lloyd was beaten by Presti on the night which doesnt constitute dominating your opponent.
Lloyd kicked 2.1 with one OOF. He took 3 contested marks, 6 other marks, and laid 3 tackles.
I wouldn't say he dominated Presti, but given Presti's form Lloyd did quite well and really should have kicked at least 3 goals. He certainly wasn't beaten. Presti himself had only 3 touches, compared to Lloyd's 13.
I wasn't as crazy as you thought in June.
Lets hope that our Key Talls can have illustrious careers like Lloyd and Lucas.
Call Me Cake
3 Oct 2009, 10:15
My god there's some dumb threads around this place.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.