View Full Version : Ricky Ponting Appreciation Thread
King Elvis
10 Jul 2009, 16:56
http://www.cricket-online.com/images/players/56060643.jpg
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Sport/Pix/pictures/2009/7/4/1246726796817/Ricky-Ponting-001.jpg
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,6525828,00.jpg
http://www.samaw.com/infohub/cricket/ricky-ponting-wife.jpg
It's an absolute disgrace that we don't have a Ricky Ponting Appreciation thread yet, but it's my pleasure and honour to start it.
The bloke is a dead set legend - bats in the hardest position in all forms of the game, never runs away from it. 11,000 runs to his name, will undoubtedly over take Lara, and quite possibly, Tendulkar - and is already arguably, in Australia, second only to Bradman.
Was always going to have the difficult task of handling the post Warne/McGrath/Langer/Gilly/Haydos/Martos era, and trying to avoid us falling over in a heap, and, to date, he's done it.
Losing the 05 Ashes is undoubtedly the biggest blot on his record - but also probably the best thing that could've happened to us; absolutely galvanised him, made him driven and obsessed with making sure we maintain our dominance. Could be argued that at times he was too ruthless and fixated on winning at all costs - but only skirts and flamers would sook about that.
Punter, I love you*
*no homo
Southerntakeover
10 Jul 2009, 16:59
Gun innings last night. You could tell early he had that steely look in his eyes, and was set for a tonne.
Two ashes series in a row hes set the tone by hitting a century in our first innings. Thats how you show leadership.
courtjester
10 Jul 2009, 17:07
And Rhiannon is looking luvvvverly in that cream low-cut top...
Cotchin 9
10 Jul 2009, 17:11
38 Test centuries says Hi.
Absolute champion. Never any doubt that he was going to come out last night and knock out yet another century.
JacksDad
10 Jul 2009, 17:45
Congratulations Ricky - 11,000 test runs, with the highest average of those players above 11,000 runs also.
Maybe a surprise retirement if we win this series?
King Elvis
10 Jul 2009, 17:57
Congratulations Ricky - 11,000 test runs, with the highest average of those players above 11,000 runs also.
Maybe a surprise retirement if we win this series?
....
Why?
His job isn't done yet.
Respected Journo
10 Jul 2009, 18:16
Congratulations Ricky - 11,000 test runs, with the highest average of those players above 11,000 runs also.
Maybe a surprise retirement if we win this series?
I hope not, otherwise we're ****ed.
footycool
10 Jul 2009, 18:18
he is the Swan of Cricket:D
mansize rooster
10 Jul 2009, 18:30
amazing record
we all knew he was gonna be special though when he put on that 96 on debut
Santana
10 Jul 2009, 18:33
Congratulations Ricky - 11,000 test runs, with the highest average of those players above 11,000 runs also.
Maybe a surprise retirement if we win this series?
I think he'll go until the next world cup at least imo.
Awesome partnership with Katich..just awesome
Respected Journo
10 Jul 2009, 18:35
Wonder where those flogs are that said he should retire from ODI's?
JacksDad
10 Jul 2009, 18:36
....
Why?
His job isn't done yet.
What's left? Record chasing?
Dont get me wrong, I dont want him to retire.
Just a little gut feeling... Go out on top.
picture in me pasta
10 Jul 2009, 18:40
What's left? Record chasing?
Dont get me wrong, I dont want him to retire.
Just a little gut feeling... Go out on top.
No chance of him retiring. 2011 World Cup or the next Ashes series in Australia (I'm guessing early 2011?) will be his swansong and that's a conservative estimate.
aaronm46
10 Jul 2009, 19:13
Cant imagine our team without him. Countless times he sets up the series with a big score
King Elvis
10 Jul 2009, 19:14
What's left? Record chasing?
Dont get me wrong, I dont want him to retire.
Just a little gut feeling... Go out on top.
What's left?
Why does anybody play any sport?
For enjoyment, for the competition, and to test yourself against others.
Why would he retire?
As for what's left - we're still in a massive transitional period; he is the only real senior player in the side, and is the key to guiding us through the next couple of years.
Wonder where those flogs are that said he should retire from ODI's?
If it prolongs his Test career, then I hope he does at some point.
Questionable captaincy, but one of the greatest batsman in the history of the game.
So many great knocks, but more importantly, so many great knocks under pressure to set up games. I mean for quite a few years now, you expect him to come out in his first innings of a series, make a hundred, really put a marker down and send a message. Gun. :thumbsu:
Sadly the vast majority will not realise just how good this bloke is until he's hung up the boots and some other poor sod has to bat in the hardest spot in the order.
He will leave a hole bigger than Adelaide...:D
Respected Journo
11 Jul 2009, 04:16
If it prolongs his Test career, then I hope he does at some point.
Questionable captaincy, but one of the greatest batsman in the history of the game.
So many great knocks, but more importantly, so many great knocks under pressure to set up games. I mean for quite a few years now, you expect him to come out in his first innings of a series, make a hundred, really put a marker down and send a message. Gun. :thumbsu:
I always have thought his been treated harshly in regards to the captainicy personally. But thats just my opinion, I have always felt that captainicy is somewhat over-rated, guys like Ian Chappell have always harped on about captainicy and I have lost count of the amount of times I have heard someone say "Ian Chappell wouldn't do that".
I just think it's very easy to captain from your couch. When Hilfenhaus was picked there was genuine surprise, even uproar in some blogs I read. Yet he was our best bowler and then all of a sudden people are screaming at Ponting to bowl him. These are the same people who said he shouldn't be playing and that we're ****ed if he is?
Pretty easy to captain in retrospect, I always find in amusing to read Roebuck's articles slating Ponting's captainicy, especially when Roebuck led England to defeat, against. ..... Holland. :D
Wicked Lester
11 Jul 2009, 10:04
Sadly the vast majority will not realise just how good this bloke is until he's hung up the boots and some other poor sod has to bat in the hardest spot in the order.
He will leave a hole bigger than Adelaide...:D
Couldn't agree more. In fact I've been saying much the same thing for years. Good number three's are hard to find, great number three's even more difficult and Ponting is right up there with the best ever.
The yardstick is to look at the many great batsmen who prefer not to bat at first drop; Tendulkar, Lara, Kallis, the Waugh's and the list goes on.
Like so many things, his greatness will be better apprecitated when he's gone. In the meantime enjoy it. I've never seen a batsman who imposes himself on series in the same way Ponting does. The number of times he's made centruries in the first innings of the first test of a series is astonishing.
flight23
11 Jul 2009, 10:07
great thread, it seemed to be cool to bag him, but **** that the guy is one of the greatest cricketers ever
Well...he is a fantastic batsman. Undeniably world-class, he'd comfortably be in my Top 10, with the likes of Tendulkar, Lara and Chappell and slightly ahead of Lara (who was too inconsistent for mine). This innings, played when he isn't even at his peak, just reinforces that.
He is a world-class fielder - a product of the Australian academy, as seen by his athletic cover fielding and his stellar (although not flawless) work in the slips in recent times.
His captaincy is underrated, too. At times he has made some terrible calls (i.e - Edgbaston 2005), but many of his more embarrassing moments in the field came earlier on in his captaincy career. The way he has managed to lead sides to memorable away wins against seemingly better opposition (in South Africa) is worthy of note - something no Australian captain has done since Border's time. Taylor never had to, whilst a weakened Waugh side underperformed against India at home (2003/04). In terms of skill, he lacks Border's grit and Taylor's natural ability, but I'd place him ahead of Waugh, who neglected to develop any alternate plans at all.
ROO BOY IN W.A
11 Jul 2009, 21:57
G.U.N thats all i can say.To the people that said he is not a good captain eat yur words.Ricky well done and you always give yur all and im proud that your our Australian Captain.Keep up the good work.Aussie Aussie Aussie oi oi oi.
legend166
11 Jul 2009, 22:50
Ponting is a legend.
He never gets credit when things are going right, but as soon as something goes wrong, it's all his fault. Ridiculous.
King Elvis
11 Jul 2009, 23:33
I've never seen a batsman who imposes himself on series in the same way Ponting does. The number of times he's made centruries in the first innings of the first test of a series is astonishing.
Deserves to be quoted, because of how correct it is, and how lucky we are to have him.
Doesn't shy away from anything - always takes responsibility and demands that he leads the team by his performances.
He's a bloody legend, and we wont realise how incredible he's been during this transitional period until he's gone.
Wicked Lester
12 Jul 2009, 09:08
He's a bloody legend, and we wont realise how incredible he's been during this transitional period until he's gone.
Yet, by the time he gives it away the transitional phase may well e over and Clarke will inherit a stable composed team.
latrell
13 Jul 2009, 21:14
Love my greyhound racing like punter, so hes obviously my favourite.
always performs at the G too
absolute competitive animal
Belnakor
14 Jul 2009, 18:09
No chance of him retiring. 2011 World Cup or the next Ashes series in Australia (I'm guessing early 2011?) will be his swansong and that's a conservative estimate.
heard he wants to bow out of ODI after the 2011 world cup and continue playing tests until they don't want him.
Panthera Leo!
14 Jul 2009, 18:11
Wonder where those flogs are that said he should retire from ODI's?
Right Here!
I can't wait until he retires, full stop!
King Elvis
14 Jul 2009, 19:09
right here!
I can't wait until he retires, full stop!
panthera leo
brisbane
arizona diamomdbacks
join date: Jul 2009
location: Launceston
go the diamomdbacks!!
Panthera Leo!
15 Jul 2009, 17:54
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/jim78/cricket4.jpg
haha ,whingers and hypocrites.
short is the memory of the mob.
I appreciate this about Ricky Ponting!
courtjester
15 Jul 2009, 22:13
Have you seen the movie "Blood Diamomd"?
Or heard the Pink Floyd song "Shine on you Crazy Diamomd"?
Bulldog Joe
15 Jul 2009, 22:44
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthera leo!
right here!
I can't wait until he retires, full stop!
Quote:
panthera leo
brisbane
arizona diamomdbacks
join date: Jul 2009
location: Launceston
Panthera
I notice you have location Launceston
So what is your problem - Did Ricky steal your girlfriend in grade 3 or something.
Ponting is the best Australian batsman since Bradman and probably top 5 of all time. More than anyone else Ponting has taken on the game and brought excitement to test cricket.
His captaincy has copped criticism, but mostly from old players who cling to the old ways and all drinking mates of Warnie, who could not get over the fact that Shane was never made captain.
The measure of Pontings captaincy is they way he maintained or resurrected careers of players who looked gone.
There is no doubt that Brett Lee and Andrew Symons have contributed more to Australian Cricket because of Ponting and I suspect he is responsible for Michael Clarke developing to the extent he has. I recall a one day game against Pakistan in 2005 when Clarke opened the batting with a relatively modest target of 164 to chase and still needing 85 when Ponting came to the crease. Ponting basically held up his end to let Clarke score the runs for his first one day century in Australia.
An enormous confidence boost for Clarke and not something you ever saw from Steve Waugh, who merely looked after his own averages.
King Elvis
15 Jul 2009, 22:51
Has apparently spent a large amount of time working one-on-one with Phil Hughes in the nets, helping him develop his technique with respect to handling the short stuff.
Punter is a National Treasure.
optimistvik
15 Jul 2009, 23:17
Punter game back after a prolonged bad form to prove why he is rated so highly amongst batsmen ,he is now with in breathing space to break the records held by sachin tendulkar.
Wicked Lester
16 Jul 2009, 16:36
I appreciate this about Ricky Ponting!
This PS Remember This? picture that's floating around trying to prove soemthing.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a fundamental difference between the two scenarios?
At Old Trafford, due to the expiry of time, I thought we had one over to face (6 balls) irrespective of however long those 6 balls took. In other words we were working to a set number of overs.
At Cardiff, the Australians had motored through their overs and it was all about time left, with the Australians trying to cram as many overs in as possible.
If my understanding is correct, the "Remember this?" picture is a meaningless comparison.
Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
Panthera Leo!
17 Jul 2009, 17:23
This PS Remember This? picture that's floating around trying to prove soemthing.
Please someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a fundamental difference between the two scenarios?
At Old Trafford, due to the expiry of time, I thought we had one over to face (6 balls) irrespective of however long those 6 balls took. In other words we were working to a set number of overs.
At Cardiff, the Australians had motored through their overs and it was all about time left, with the Australians trying to cram as many overs in as possible.
If my understanding is correct, the "Remember this?" picture is a meaningless comparison.
Again, correct me if I'm wrong.
Time wasting is time wasting!
I did what you asked, I corrected you because you were wrong!
Panthera Leo!
17 Jul 2009, 17:26
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthera leo!
right here!
I can't wait until he retires, full stop!
Quote:
panthera leo
brisbane
arizona diamomdbacks
join date: Jul 2009
location: Launceston
Panthera
I notice you have location Launceston
So what is your problem - Did Ricky steal your girlfriend in grade 3 or something.
Ponting is the best Australian batsman since Bradman and probably top 5 of all time. More than anyone else Ponting has taken on the game and brought excitement to test cricket.
His captaincy has copped criticism, but mostly from old players who cling to the old ways and all drinking mates of Warnie, who could not get over the fact that Shane was never made captain.
The measure of Pontings captaincy is they way he maintained or resurrected careers of players who looked gone.
There is no doubt that Brett Lee and Andrew Symons have contributed more to Australian Cricket because of Ponting and I suspect he is responsible for Michael Clarke developing to the extent he has. I recall a one day game against Pakistan in 2005 when Clarke opened the batting with a relatively modest target of 164 to chase and still needing 85 when Ponting came to the crease. Ponting basically held up his end to let Clarke score the runs for his first one day century in Australia.
An enormous confidence boost for Clarke and not something you ever saw from Steve Waugh, who merely looked after his own averages.
Get real! Ponting never looks after anyone other than himself!
King Elvis
17 Jul 2009, 19:29
Time wasting is time wasting!
I did what you asked, I corrected you because you were wrong!
You can't waste time when the time isn't a constraint.
You're a disgrace.
Does the first 2 sessions of the England innings show that Punter doesn't have the best selection of bowlers?
King Elvis
17 Jul 2009, 23:37
Does the first 2 sessions of the England innings show that Punter doesn't have the best selection of bowlers?
Ball is doing a lot more today I think; and it depends whether Mitchell can get his act together or not.
One bowler bowling as poorly as Mitchy did completely exposes the rest of the bowling group.
Cooldude
18 Jul 2009, 02:11
Has apparently spent a large amount of time working one-on-one with Phil Hughes in the nets, helping him develop his technique with respect to handling the short stuff.
Punter is a National Treasure.
That might well explain the pull shot Hughes got out on. Obviously Hughes has a long way to go to pull as well as Ponting yet
King Elvis
18 Jul 2009, 02:50
That might well explain the pull shot Hughes got out on. Obviously Hughes has a long way to go to pull as well as Ponting yet
The problem is, Hughes doesnt have a problem with the short ball - the Saffers dished up short stuff to him all day long, it didn't work - but he's allowed the Poms to get in his head, and now he thinks he has a problem with the short ball, and is changing things to try and deal with it.
Bulldog Joe
18 Jul 2009, 10:42
Get real! Ponting never looks after anyone other than himself!
Thanks for that.
You obviously have a problem with Ponting that defies any logical thought.
Cooldude
18 Jul 2009, 11:36
The problem is, Hughes doesnt have a problem with the short ball - the Saffers dished up short stuff to him all day long, it didn't work - but he's allowed the Poms to get in his head, and now he thinks he has a problem with the short ball, and is changing things to try and deal with it.
No doubt it's a mental thing now, that pull shot showed his state of mind. He's sick of this short pitched stuff at him
Panthera Leo!
18 Jul 2009, 18:06
I really do appreciate the way ponting sooked and carried on about getting out for only 2.
Reckons he wasn't out.........AGAIN.
King Elvis
18 Jul 2009, 20:05
I really do appreciate the way ponting sooked and carried on about getting out for only 2.
Reckons he wasn't out.........AGAIN.
He wasn't out, but don't let that get in the way.
I really do appreciate the way ponting sooked and carried on about getting out for only 2.
Reckons he wasn't out.........AGAIN.
Leo your posting in this thread is shithouse.
Stop it being shithouse or we are going to have a little problem.
DT_fanatic
19 Jul 2009, 10:00
He wasn't out, but don't let that get in the way.
He wasn't out caught, sure, but it was hitting leg stump halfway up. Either way, he deserved to go.
DeadlyAkkuret
19 Jul 2009, 19:26
I must have the most warped defintion of plumb, but there was a lot of doubt as to whether or not the ball was hitting the stumps. His bat was a mile from the ball and the ball looked to be sliding towards leg, but yeah it was plumb.
:confused:
Anyway, I hope Ricky hits a big score today so this thread can get back on a more positive note. Whenever he fails (usually only in the eyes of those who want him to fail) threads like this get filled with trolls and snide little comments about his ability.
C'mon Ricky, put them back in their box for another week or so!
absolute gun watch him make a hundred here
Bennycoff
19 Jul 2009, 21:37
Ponting is the best batsman we've seen for a number of years in Australia and top 3 in the world. Any dumb Pom or anti Aussie saying Ponting is crap does not have a clue. Superstar. Absolute legend.
aaronm46
19 Jul 2009, 22:29
I love you Ricky
but for ****s sake win a coin toss in one of the next 3 tests will ya?
PaddleFoot
20 Jul 2009, 18:15
The pathology of a bully is to go for the jugular as compensation for their own weakness - and the Poms specialise in the wind-up. The intense Ricky-baiting is a sign that they are in fact scared ( and scarred ) so they over compensate.
It's very tedious ..
brettman135
20 Jul 2009, 18:23
Tell him to hand over the captaincy as he ain't much good at that but he can bat
belfast_bomber
31 Jul 2009, 20:31
Good moment for a bump.
Congrats Ricky, an Aussie legend.
King Elvis
31 Jul 2009, 20:44
Good moment for a bump.
Congrats Ricky, an Aussie legend.
You jinxed him :(
King Elvis
29 Sep 2009, 00:42
I really do love watching Ricky bat.
Cooldude
29 Sep 2009, 01:25
That lofted on drive for six is possibly the shot of the year.
Sure, people can do massive swings for sixes down the ground nowadays, but who can play what is basically an extension of a normal on drive and basically time it for a huge six? Probably only Ponting and Sachin can do it.
Seriously, what a player. Looking in top form
King Elvis
29 Sep 2009, 01:27
The commentators were almost speechless at that shot :)
Ponting is the best batsman we've seen for a number of years in Australia and top 3 in the world. Any dumb Pom or anti Aussie saying Ponting is crap does not have a clue. Superstar. Absolute legend.
No one says that he is not a great player. Every POM you speak to will tell you cricketing wise Ponting in in a class of his own. What everyone says is that his image as a captain and in general (non performace based) is not the best and rightfully so imo. It is no fluke that this opinion is widely thought of the only people who generally are against it are the Aussies, but then again Aussies are the most bias people aroung ;)
King Elvis
1 Oct 2009, 11:29
No one says that he is not a great player. Every POM you speak to will tell you cricketing wise Ponting in in a class of his own. What everyone says is that his image as a captain and in general (non performace based) is not the best and rightfully so imo. It is no fluke that this opinion is widely thought of the only people who generally are against it are the Aussies, but then again Aussies are the most bias people aroung ;)
You hate him because he's better than you, and he doesn't pander to people to make them feel better.
All Captains have their moments, glare when they shouldn't, get pissed off when something goes against them - the difference is Punter is so good of a player, and is the leader of what's been an incredibly dominant side, so he attracts the criticism.
Nobody cares if the Captain of a shit team is having a sook.
Belnakor
1 Oct 2009, 19:07
Strauss had a huge sook after one of the ODI and noone even batted an eyelid.
You hate him because he's better than you, and he doesn't pander to people to make them feel better.
All Captains have their moments, glare when they shouldn't, get pissed off when something goes against them - the difference is Punter is so good of a player, and is the leader of what's been an incredibly dominant side, so he attracts the criticism.
Nobody cares if the Captain of a shit team is having a sook.
When did I compare him to myself? Don't see where you pulled this one from.
All captains do have there moments. Punter just has them a lot more then all the other captains. He puts his foot in his mouth and his actions on the field sometimes are silly.
Also he was captain of a dominate side which had in it about 5+ players all of which could have each been captain. It does not take much to captain that, in fact in that side he could have almost been redundant as a captain.
Also as I said in my first post. This has nothing to do with his ability to bat. We all know how good that is. It is everything else. You will also find a large portion of the cricketing community (who follow cricket and are outside of Australia) will agree with me, at least to some point.
When did I compare him to myself? Don't see where you pulled this one from.
All captains do have there moments. Punter just has them a lot more then all the other captains. He puts his foot in his mouth and his actions on the field sometimes are silly.
Also he was captain of a dominate side which had in it about 5+ players all of which could have each been captain. It does not take much to captain that, in fact in that side he could have almost been redundant as a captain.
Also as I said in my first post. This has nothing to do with his ability to bat. We all know how good that is. It is everything else. You will also find a large portion of the cricketing community (who follow cricket and are outside of Australia) will agree with me, at least to some point.
Then by this logic you also agree that Steve Waugh wasn't a good captain?
When did I compare him to myself? Don't see where you pulled this one from.
All captains do have there moments. Punter just has them a lot more then all the other captains. He puts his foot in his mouth and his actions on the field sometimes are silly.
Also he was captain of a dominate side which had in it about 5+ players all of which could have each been captain. It does not take much to captain that, in fact in that side he could have almost been redundant as a captain.
Also as I said in my first post. This has nothing to do with his ability to bat. We all know how good that is. It is everything else. You will also find a large portion of the cricketing community (who follow cricket and are outside of Australia) will agree with me, at least to some point.
Then by this logic you also agree that Steve Waugh wasn't a good captain?
Then by this logic you also agree that Steve Waugh wasn't a good captain?
Waugh had to build the side around him from that perspective. All the leadership from the side Punter had came directly from Waugh and what he did with the side. All that Punter did was inherit a ready made side able to function on its own.
belfast_bomber
2 Oct 2009, 19:19
But by the same token, Punter's had to manage the side through the retirement of all of those greats of the side he inherited, and the integration of new players. It's a huge task and far from complete, and the jury's still out on the success of it, but that's arguably a bigger job than Waugh ever had to do as captain.
Waugh had to build the side around him from that perspective. All the leadership from the side Punter had came directly from Waugh and what he did with the side. All that Punter did was inherit a ready made side able to function on its own.
Warne and Mcgrath were already quite accomplished players in their own right when Waugh became captain. He still had a world class team that he was captaining.
Warne and Mcgrath were already quite accomplished players in their own right when Waugh became captain. He still had a world class team that he was captaining.
Yes and no. Waugh had good players around him, however his had to deal with a lot more issues then Punter. The whole saga with Slats (a whole story in itself) and the whole change over with Gilly taking the gloves and the whole Warne at his worse was all governed by Waugh. I also do not think either Waugh or Punter ever captained McGrath or Warne.... They got what ever damn field they wanted.
But by the same token, Punter's had to manage the side through the retirement of all of those greats of the side he inherited, and the integration of new players. It's a huge task and far from complete, and the jury's still out on the success of it, but that's arguably a bigger job than Waugh ever had to do as captain.
See and look what has happened. He lost the number one spot. His batting form is slipping and he lost a home test series. Not good signs. As for not as bigger job as Waugh ever had to deal with you can refer above. On top of all that Waugh finished his career with the whole worlds respect as a captain and player. If Punter retires now he would not have the whole worlds respect as a captain (and this comes from people outside of the poms as well).
OzBomber
3 Oct 2009, 04:57
12,000 ODI runs for the great man. Dead. Set. Legend.
Tassie Bulldog
3 Oct 2009, 05:03
Yes and no. Waugh had good players around him, however his had to deal with a lot more issues then Punter. The whole saga with Slats (a whole story in itself) and the whole change over with Gilly taking the gloves and the whole Warne at his worse was all governed by Waugh. I also do not think either Waugh or Punter ever captained McGrath or Warne.... They got what ever damn field they wanted.
See and look what has happened. He lost the number one spot. His batting form is slipping and he lost a home test series. Not good signs. As for not as bigger job as Waugh ever had to deal with you can refer above. On top of all that Waugh finished his career with the whole worlds respect as a captain and player. If Punter retires now he would not have the whole worlds respect as a captain (and this comes from people outside of the poms as well).
Get a grip pal, if Rick dropped down the order like a few other players did way before Rick's current age - Richards, Border, Waugh he would still clearly be ranked #1 in the world but he is doing the right thing by his team as nobody else is equipped to bat at #3 which is leading by example and not looking after #1
When Steve Waugh was captain there were blokes like Lehmann, Bevan, Siddons, etc running around Shield cricket averaging near 60 and couldn't get a game. All those 3 would run rings around the likes of Clarke, Hussey, North, etc
Ever heard Shane Warne talk about Steve Waugh's captaincy, rates Rick a million miles ahead
gloryandfame
3 Oct 2009, 05:07
Getting better with age and tearing apart the poms as we speak, well done on the 12,000 Ricky.
mattymac
3 Oct 2009, 07:37
he's one of the few players we've got left with a direct link to the past and who can bring that old killer instinct like he did in the semi tonight. which is invaluable for our young guys at the moment. pure class. came out at 1/6 and absolutely stamped his authority all over it. murdered the poms relentlessly which lifted watson up too with the result we ended on 1/258.
Bulldog Joe
3 Oct 2009, 12:04
Waugh had to build the side around him from that perspective. All the leadership from the side Punter had came directly from Waugh and what he did with the side. All that Punter did was inherit a ready made side able to function on its own.
Please do not compare any facet of Steve Waugh to Ponting.
Waugh always played for Waugh and was very good at looking after his own stats. He came to the captaincy after Taylor and inherited the great side that had been built through the work of Taylor and even the contribution of Border.
The selfishness of Waugh was typified with his last century at the SCG where his performance was far more important than winning the test match.
Belnakor
3 Oct 2009, 12:40
You look at who Waugh had in his side - Ponting, Warne, Mcgrath, Gilchrist. He basically had 4 genuine once in a generation cricketers in one side. Of course he bloody looked good.
Belnakor
3 Oct 2009, 12:41
Waugh always played for Waugh .
absolutely spot on. I saw some stat where Waugh ran out like 4x more partners than himself. He was always looking after no1.
Belnakor
3 Oct 2009, 12:43
Yes and no. Waugh had good players around him, however his had to deal with a lot more issues then Punter. The whole saga with Slats (a whole story in itself) and the whole change over with Gilly taking the gloves and the whole Warne at his worse was all governed by Waugh. I also do not think either Waugh or Punter ever captained McGrath or Warne.... They got what ever damn field they wanted.
See and look what has happened. He lost the number one spot. His batting form is slipping and he lost a home test series. Not good signs. As for not as bigger job as Waugh ever had to deal with you can refer above. On top of all that Waugh finished his career with the whole worlds respect as a captain and player. If Punter retires now he would not have the whole worlds respect as a captain (and this comes from people outside of the poms as well).
give me a break. Your saying it was "really tough" for Waugh for a new keeper to come into the side who averaged 60 and batted at a run a ball? Who played a match winning innings in the second biggest chase Australia had ever made - in something like his second test? puz-lease.
You look at some of the absolute spuds who have played for Ponting, Mcgain, Krejza. The current team has about 10% the talent the one Waugh had. Lehmann is the best example for the Waugh era - any other team in the world the guy would have been the no.1 batsmen. He couldn't even crack a spot.
To alter jiphoc's quote:
Ponting had good players around him, however his had to deal with a lot more issues then Punter. The whole saga with Symonds (a whole story in itself) and the whole change over with Haddin/Ronchi/Paine/Manou/a less potent Gilchrist taking the gloves...
Put simply, Ponting had to deal with similar issues to those that Waugh had to deal with. While the Slater episode was...uh...illuminating, the Symonds one lasted for far longer and was probably affected the team more (Waugh's team only really started getting affected by Slater's behaviour in March 2001; in contrast, the episode with Symonds lasted for 18 months and got worse as it went along).
Also, as someone else has said, I would've far preferred to have Adam Gilchrist (a good keeper and a then-terrific batsman) replacing Ian Healy (a top-class keeper and a decent batsman who had fallen out of form by the time Waugh had captained the side) than to handle a lesser Gilchrist, the sub-Gilchristian Haddin and Ronchi, Paine and Manou, who may all be good keepers but do not appear to be Test (or even conclusively ODI class) batsmen.
True, Warne wasn't always at his best when Waugh was captain (and I believe that Warne is still antipathetic towards Waugh), but he wasn't bad. Indeed, any other team bar India would've happily taken him onboard.
See and look what has happened. He lost the number one spot. His batting form is slipping and he lost a home test series. Not good signs.
Given Australia's sub-par performance whenever Warne/McGrath weren't present (i.e - nearly losing to India at home), I suspect that you would be saying the same thing about Waugh if he was in Ponting's position (i.e - losing a home test series). Bear in mind too, that even then Waugh's batting lineup during that 2003/04 series (with most Australian batsmen firing spectacularly) was far superior to Ponting's of 2008/09 (which had too many out-of-form batsmen).
Ironically enough, if Ponting's side had any killer instinct, or had even bothered to back Mitchell Johnson up on all bar a few occasions, Australia would probably have won that series. On the other hand, Waugh's Australia was only saved from a series loss because India's bowling (bar Kumble) was often inept.
You also neglect to mention that Ponting has shown the ability (however scarce) to lead unfancied sides to upset wins (like against SA).
There is another thing that makes me believe that Ponting>Waugh - tactics. While Ponting is certainly flawed tactically, at least he has displayed the initiative to change tactics whenever something isn't working, rather than using unbridled aggression regardless of the circumstances, like Waugh did (i.e - using Brad Hogg vs Laxman in Sydney 2007/08). True, Waugh's rigidity could be the product of having a world-class side most of the time, but even with lesser sides he showed little inclination to change tack.
Please do not compare any facet of Steve Waugh to Ponting.
Waugh always played for Waugh and was very good at looking after his own stats. He came to the captaincy after Taylor and inherited the great side that had been built through the work of Taylor and even the contribution of Border.
The selfishness of Waugh was typified with his last century at the SCG where his performance was far more important than winning the test match.
Man I seriously doubt you have ever played a game of cricket in your life. Waugh gave Australia a chance to win that test together with Gilly. What more do you want? That innings will go down in history as one of the best innings in history. Fighting for his spot. Likely to be dropped if he failed and then BANG... Hits a hundred. You are a tool.
As for the players yes I know Waugh had probably the top 3 best sides to ever play the game but it was how he captained them that was so good. Punter lacks in this area.
uh...illuminating, the Symonds one lasted for far longer and was probably affected the team more (Waugh's team only really started getting affected by Slater's behaviour in March 2001; in contrast, the episode with Symonds lasted for 18 months and got worse as it went along).
Waugh dealt with the deal with Slater himself together with a few others. Punter could not control the Symonds matter himself. He had no control over him and that is VERY evident in how the saga turned out. When Symonds was talked to and punished I can bet you Punter had very little to do with it and that CA had everything to do with it.
There is another thing that makes me believe that Ponting>Waugh - tactics. While Ponting is certainly flawed tactically, at least he has displayed the initiative to change tactics whenever something isn't working, rather than using unbridled aggression regardless of the circumstances, like Waugh did (i.e - using Brad Hogg vs Laxman in Sydney 2007/08). True, Waugh's rigidity could be the product of having a world-class side most of the time, but even with lesser sides he showed little inclination to change tack.
They in reality where/ are both average at tactics. Waugh was to stubborn and Ponting over thinks everything and does not give certain tactics time. The best player I ever saw who had the best tactics and understanding is Warne and Taylor. As for who was better between Waugh and Ponting in this case... you can flip a coin. Positives and negitives on both sides even out.
Also, as someone else has said, I would've far preferred to have Adam Gilchrist (a good keeper and a then-terrific batsman) replacing Ian Healy (a top-class keeper and a decent batsman who had fallen out of form by the time Waugh had captained the side) than to handle a lesser Gilchrist, the sub-Gilchristian Haddin and Ronchi, Paine and Manou, who may all be good keepers but do not appear to be Test (or even conclusively ODI class) batsmen.
Hardly. People forget that Healy was probably the first keeper for Australia who could actaully bat himself. He was also a favourite amoungst the squad at the time and loved by all crowds. Then CA (ACB at the time I think?) says hold it get our Heals, even though he was in alright form and keeping great and replace him with a no name. Who did people then turn to to control the situation? Waugh. The rest speaks for itself
Waugh always played for Waugh and was very good at looking after his own stats. He came to the captaincy after Taylor and inherited the great side that had been built through the work of Taylor and even the contribution of Border.
And Ponting did not inherit an awsome side. Some would think Ponting got given the best side of all.
As for Waugh playing for Waugh. That is bating for you. When you bat you have to first and formost play for yourself. When the bowler comes in it is you and him. Does the fact his communication between wickets make him any less of a great captain and player? Kallis is probably worse between the wickets and is arguably the greatest allrounder of all time. Are you going to have a go at him next? Players play like they do. Ponting has many, many flaws in his batting. That is not the discussion at hand though.
Cousin Jed
4 Oct 2009, 14:26
Gilchrist a no-name at the time he took over from Healy?
He was averaging 34 with 5 ODI centuries at a strike rate of 87 when he came into the test team.
JacksDad
7 Oct 2009, 10:50
Maybe a surprise retirement if we win this series?
Well I got the retirement bit right
Pity about the series :(
King Elvis
25 Oct 2009, 15:27
<3
.
deledio7
25 Oct 2009, 20:24
I have thought about it a fair bit in the last couple of weeks, and have come to the conclusion that there is nothing better to watch in world sport than Ricky Ponting in full flight.
Whacker
26 Oct 2009, 17:12
i :heart: punter
Power21
26 Oct 2009, 17:34
He will be the hardest to replace out of all the stars recently retired.
How many times does he score a ton or something similar in the first test or one-dayer of a series, would love to see stats on that.