Brisbane and Fitzroy merged.

[Roylion]

To launch this board, I thought I'd (again) post the reasons why I and many other Brisbane-Fitzroy people believe the merger between Fitzroy and Brisbane was a true one and not merely a takeover as some people have erroneously claimed. Judging by the claims periodically raised by other (ignorant) supporters of other clubs about a supposed Brisbane takeover of Fitzroy, the following obviously needs to be repeated and re-inforced.

What have the Brisbane Lions got to do with Fitzroy?

Plenty.

a) The merger licence clearly states that Fitzroy's 'Lion' and colours must be used in 'perpetuity'- forever. A minimum of two directors specifically representing Fitzroy, must be on the nine man Brisbane Lions board. At the moment there are three.

b) The theme song to Fitzroy's old tune has lines from the old Bears and Fitzroy's theme song, with a heavy predominance to the Fitzroy side of things.
"We are the boys from Brisbane Town
We wear maroon, blue and gold
We will always fight for victory
Like FITZROY and BEARS of old." etc etc.

c) The Lions train in Brisbane before a Brisbane match and in Melbourne for a Melbourne match. 500 supporters turned up to the training run before the Carlton-Brisbane semi-final at Fitzroy's old stomping ground the Junction Oval. They also train at Albert Park (where Fitzroy used to train) and also at the MCG...as Fitzroy used to do before it's MCG games.

d) The Lions in Season 2000 played 1 Ansett Cup match + six ' Home' matches + 1 final in Melbourne. 8 matches in all. The Gabba had twelve matches (11 home games + 1 final. All Victorian members by virtue of getting a Vic. membership gain FREE admittance to Lions matches in Melbourne both H&A and Ansett Cup. These are our home matches. What do you expect, when it's a merger between a club (the Bears) that has it's own stadium and represents a capital city with a club (Fitzroy) that had no real home and represented just one tiny suburb of another capital city.

e) The Bears no longer exist either as a legal or AFL entity. A new licence was issued by the AFL and a new company the "Brisbane Bears-FITZROY Australian. Football Club" (trading as the 'Brisbane Lions') was formed. The Bears were replaced by a NEW club, the Lions, formed by the merger.

f) The Melbourne suburban clubs sponsored by Brisbane Lions are those that specifically played in Fitzroy colours, or have the name or have some other connection to Fitzroy. Brisbane sponsor far more clubs in Victoria than do most other "interstate" clubs" other than the Sydney Swans. By doing this they are taken the role that the FFC would have taken if it was an AFL club still. It's not just limited to merely monetary sponsorship either.

g) The Brisbane Lions acknowledge Fitzroy history and tradition in their Yearbook and periodic magazine "The Lions Tale", by featuring stories on great players, supporters, old matches etc etc. that can be read by former Bears supporters as well as Fitzroy people;

h)The Lions B&F medal the Merrett-Murray Medal PARTLY named after Fitzroy Brownlow Medallist Kevin Murray; Named after Roger Merrett as well because it was a MERGER!

i)The "Fitzroy-Brisbane Past Players Association" has also merged is an active part of the Brisbane Lions and headed by Norm Brown a Fitzroy great). It's membership includes 90% of the past players from both the Bears and Fitzroy who are still alive;

j) The acceptance of the Brisbane Lions as a PARTIAL continuation of the Fitzroy club in the AFL by former Fitzroy players such as Mick Conlan, Laurie Serfini, Kevin Murray, Gary Pert, Paul Roos, Bill Stephen, Kevin Murray, Norm Brown, 'Titch' Edwards, Bernie Quinlan, Brad Boyd, etc; I myself have spoken on several occasions to players like Micky Conlan, who believe that the Lions have done a fantastic job in preserving and acknowledging the Fitzroy history. Gary Pert for example is a Brisbane Lions supporter and member as are his kids. Brad Boyd, Fitzroy's last captain is a firm supporter of the Brisbane Lions and beleives that if Fitzroy had to merge they could have done it little better that what actually happened. Several former chairmen of the FFC are now patrons and members of the Brisbane Lions including George Coates and Leon Wiegard.

k) The Brisbane Lions Melbourne social club "the Manningham' has been established in the heart of Fitzroy's old recruiting zone at Bulleen;

l) The Brisbane Lions 'Lions Den' at the social club at Bulleen is full of Fitzroy memorabilia. There's another large amount of Fitzroy memorabilia at the Gabba, which Paul Roos mentioned on Channel 7 at least once during the past season. Roos stated than in his opinion there was plenty of Fitzroy in the new Brisbane Lions and hoped to go back there one day in some sort of coaching/advisory capacity.

m) Fitzroy Life Members are automatically life members of the Brisbane Lions. Former Fitzroy life members have been officially presented with their Brisbane Lions life membership in several ceremonies held by the club.

n) The Brisbane Lions hold annual family days in Victoria, in which most of the Brisbane senior list are present and where this year 5,000 Brisbane Lions Victorian supporters turned up. As I was an attendee I witnessed that present were the "Fitzroy Reds" Football Club who ran a stall, represtatives of the Coburg-Fitzroy Football Club, former Fitzroy players, such as Osborne, pert, Conland, Murray, etc and a large amount of supporters still wearing the old FFC jumper , as well as other FFC memorabilia

o) Continued production of new Fitzroy "memorabilia" that the Brisbane Lions produce, pay for and sell. The latest is a magnificent framed poster of every Fitzroy player to have played 100 games for Fitzroy;

p) The establishment of the "Fitzroy-Brisbane Historical Society" by the club and staffed and run by former players whose mission is to collect amd commemmorate Fitzroy history. This is done under the auspices and encouragment of the Brisbane Lions.

q) 10,000-12,000 Brisbane Lions supporters at most Victorian matches depending on the opponent. 3,000 paid up Victorian members in Season 2000. Fitzroy only had 8,000 members in 1996 and crowds to match. I went to an AFL match between Sydney Swans and Fitzroy in '95 at the Western Oval that had 5,000 people turn up.

r) Only Melbourne has after-match functions where Victorian (read Fitzroy) supporters can intermingle with the players. This does NOT happen in Brisbane, after a home game.

s) Co-captains. Michael Voss and Alistair Lynch. Voss for the Bears, Lynch for the Roys (and I realise Lynch was a Bears player as well!)

[Mr Ripper]

You're preaching to the converted here, Roy. But how does one go about convincing a) the media and b) the football public in general?

[This message has been edited by Mr Ripper (edited 17 October 2000).]

[lioness]

I don't know if there IS anyway to convince people, I think they really have to come to realise it for themselves, you know??? Roylion, great post by the way......I mean in my case it was preaching to the converted too, but it's very well put. Jacs

[sainter]

Very interesting post Roylion.

You have put it together very logically and given those of us who do not really know the exact deals of the merger an excellent explanation.

I think you may have mentioned it on a previous post but does it annoy you that head-to-head records between the Brisbane Lions and their opponents seem to refer to the records of the Brisbane Bears and not Fitzroy or both sides?

[sandie]

Roylion
It's a damn shame, but you are preaching to the converted. I agree with everything you say, but unfortunately supporters from most other clubs won't believe it. If it ever happens to their club I am sure they will change their minds real quick.
Go Lions

------------------
Mantis

[OldLion]

Roylion,

Breaking up is , in the words of the poet, hard to do. Myself and my old Lion friends who used to structure many social events around match day, have not caught up as much as we used to, and many of our children have gone on to support other teams ... which can create some tension at home of a weekend.

What we are looking for is

1. some games to attend ( sorry - not the VFL )

2. some passion displayed by the team

Unfortunately, the Lions just don't appear regularly enough for us to build a deep connection, and , when they show up it's a struggle to whip up the enthusiasm ( ONE game at the MCG last season ! )

This was not helped by the tragic loss of Brad Boyd who was THE MAN - the focus of reconciliation.

What we do now is to go to ANY game at the MCG and treat it as a stressless day out. But it's a little hollow - no pain, no gain - and a little lonely.

We've even contemplated going to the Gabba for a blokes weekend, just to see if it's all true but there is the $$ thing.

There is no doubt that, for the Lions to generate the passion back in Melbourne for us, we need some finals success here. It's amazing that neither Sydney or Brisbane have won a final here - that MUST be the goal next season.

I'm not trying to argue any points here .. I'm just trying to explain why the footy experience for us has been greatly diminished and the next generation are naturally moving to support clubs where that experience can be fully realised.

I still support the Lions but I feel that all the previous decades' passion and excitement now counts for very little.

Who will speak of Bernie Quinlan's kicking or Gary Wilson's courage and skills or the idiosyncratic actions of the Doc or the Tank ? Those famous victories against arch rivals ? The statistics are not even kept alive.

There's obviously a new tradition ( a contradiction ? ) to be created here but it seems to be based on very little actual supporter game time experience.

[InTheBack!]

Hi Oldlion,

Games In Melbourne

I agree that there needs to be more games in Melbourne at the expense of other interstate games. The only way forward for the merged club to increase membership in melbourne i.e old roy supporters is to have more regular appearances. Unfortunatly the AFL does not seem to have made this a priority.

However 2000 did see a few matches in Melbourne albeit mainly at Docklands. Do they have to be at the MCG to qualify as Melbourne games? I attended the Dees/Lions at Docklands with quite a few pumped up Lions supporters.

Finals

Your comments about finals are odd. Many clubs would kill for any finals appearances. Since 1997 the merged club has missed the finals once & had 3 Melbourne appearances by my recollection.

Old Players

Also the Lions tale devotes quite a bit of space to old players etc. What happens when all the current players retire? Even if the entire list was old royboys there would come a day when there would be zilch!

Passion

What about Justin Leppitch turning down bigger offers to play with the merged club? What about the come from behind win in Sydney last season? What about 10 wins in a row in 1999 including travelling to Adelaide in consecutive weeks & pumping the locals!

Or does getting the wooden spoon every year for the past 50 years like Fitsroy or 10 years like the Bears count as real passion?

Whats missing Im afraid is YOUR passion not the Clubs. Im very sorry about that but dont go transferring your grief to our GREAT club.

Go Lions

[OldLion]

ITB,

My post was not a criticism of they way things are, only a personal account of mine and a number of friends football experience.

As I said, I support the Lions and even went to the Docklands to see the game V the Dogs, which was great. But I must compare my experience to my neighbour's who follows the Tigers. That's the experience I USED to have - meeting friends at the venue, getting involved on a regular basis. That's the reality. I struggle with the 'armchair' support - I get way too tense.

Maybe my passion has been spent over the last 10 years - how much heartache can you take - but I'm sure you'll be glad to know that one son follows the Lions and another plays for them ( Fitzroy that is ) so don't judge me too harshly.

On the finals thing - this is the big hurdle. The final V Carlton was SO lamentable that some big questions need to be asked and answered. It was like we just couldn't step up, even tho' we'd looked excellent the previous week. All I'm saying on this is that, IF ( or hopefully ) WHEN we WIN a final in Melbourne, then respect and new traditions are formed. I remember 1983 and 1984 when we had such a great team BUT failed to win a final, whereas 1986 was STELLAR because of the finals experience. ( I won't even mention 1981 - groan ! )

Anyway, I'll be there at the Lions games but the 'armchair' role is just not for me.

PS. Get Martin Pike immediately !

[InTheBack!]

OK Oldlion,

As we support the same side I guess we should not bicker - anyway I agree that the BASIC problem is lack of games in Melbourne. I like many other more open minded supporters appreciate the great potential of a 2 city support base & on my interstate foray felt really welcomed by the local Lions supporters in melbourne - as I hope any Victorian Lions supporters are in QLD (at least they are by everyone I know).

We have 13 games at the gabbe this year (i think?) anyway its one more than normal & I would gladly do without this one so it could be rescheduled in Melbourne. However the mighty $$$ rules.

On the subject of the finals - the v Carlton did not hurt so much as the 1999 v North when we went in with a real chance. If you look at the players for the Carlton match you will find a very young team overawed by the occasion. The media goes on about the young Hawthorn team etc, however the Lions is one of the youngest around & in age terms probably the most successful relatively speaking.

[Pessimistic]

Having only exprienced a 'failed' merger for my team I can only begin to understand what the Brisbane Lions experirnce is about.

The rest of us are probably sceptical about the merger in the way it was done, and even though it was bent to the AFL's will at the 11th hour the AFL seem to have washed their hands of any support. (They want more games at the gabba which is effectively less here in melbourne)

And If Hore-Lacy was more positive then it would be easier to swallow. Granted the Lions were much more generous in their 'concessions' than (say) Melbourne were to the 'Velcro' Hawks. The trouble is when fans or other 'endangered' clubs look at we just see a long campaign of dirty tricks by the AFL culminating in zero support for the concept once they got it off the ground (sound familiar)

As Always
Pessimistic

[teams]

e) The Bears no longer exist either as a legal or AFL entity. A new licence was issued by the AFL and a new company the "Brisbane Bears-FITZROY Australian. Football Club" (trading as the 'Brisbane Lions') was formed. The Bears were replaced by a NEW club, the Lions, formed by the merger.




What I said four-five years ago, is in fact incorrect. The Brisbane Bears and the Brisbane Lions entities are in fact one and the same legally. This is supported by the ABN numbers of both companies being exactly the same. Also I have contacted the AFL about the issue of the licence and no new licence was issued to the new Brisbane Lions. The licence they hold is in fact the licence the Bears held.


Three premierships later a tidy up.

The jumper surviving means heaps.

[Rawhead]

I empathise with you OldLion, I think the only solution is for you to move up here.


All you old Fitzroy supporters come up, we'll take care of ya.

[Roylion]

Three premierships later a tidy up.

The jumper surviving means heaps.

Ahhh teams....nice to see you backed down on the other thread even after you had to go trawling through four years of threads to find some evidence to back up your original argument. In fact my original post was the first ever post on the Brisbane Lions board. Nice to see you're trying anyway.

I wonder if now I should give the other side of the merger argument, that in fact there was a legal merger between Brisbane and Fitzroy...the proposed North Fitzroy Kangaroos being a case in point. I don't want to confuse you too much though....the VFL-AFL issue appears to be too much for you and this isn't really the board to do it either.

[teams]

Ahhh teams....nice to see you backed down on the other thread even after you had to go trawling through four years of threads to find some evidence to back up your original argument. In fact my original post was the first ever post on the Brisbane Lions board. Nice to see you're trying anyway.

I wonder if now I should give the other side of the merger argument, that in fact there was a legal merger between Brisbane and Fitzroy...the proposed North Fitzroy Kangaroos being a case in point. I don't want to confuse you too much though....the VFL-AFL issue appears to be too much for you and this isn't really the board to do it either.

I'm wrapped the jumper survived.

The internet doesn't mean all that much but was only to happy to help another poster with their thread to thread credibility when an inner contradiction was stumbled across. I suppose I could have ignored your inconsistency but chose not to in the interests of the national game. Incidentally there was no trawling involved. Just used the go to similar thread function.

And you're right about something anyway. This isn't the board for the other matter.

[Rawhead]

bugger, I didnt even look at the date of the posts.

[OldLion]

I empathise with you OldLion, I think the only solution is for you to move up here.


All you old Fitzroy supporters come up, we'll take care of ya.A fair bit of water has flowed under any number of bridges since 2000 ! Interesting to reflect after attending 4 GFs and all that success beyond our wildest dreams. It's a bit like the Aussie cricket team - always want them to win but there's nothing like following a team on the up with new players that can generate excitement. Even getting absolutely pantsed by the Saints wasn't that depressing - maybe I'm mellowing.

Have to say - good call on Pikey !!!!