Newspaper reports Matthews to stay

[InTheBack!]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/story_203606.htm

[Mr Ripper]

Personally, I prefer the headline from the following article:

http://www.theage.com.au/sport/20001103/A23052-2000Nov2.html

What I want to know is: How many Hot Dogs did it take to bribe him ? http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by Mr Ripper (edited 03 November 2000).]

[Tom FC]

Question: How long do we really want him to stay?

Not that I'd question what he's done for the club so far: he's well and truly turned the team around, and probably got close to the best possible out of his players, at least in 99.

But

The same sort of thing happened when he was at Collingwood, at first. A couple of years after taking charge, they won a premiership. But after he was there for a while, it turned out that the draft choice's he'd made weren't so good, and the recruits weren't doing particularly well, and I wonder if that could happen at Brissy.

After all, recruits to this stage (Martin McKinnon, David Calthorpe, Stefan Carey, Michael Martin) have all done nothing, with the exception being Adam Heuskes, who gave us one good season.

Draft picks over the last couple of years appear pretty average, with the exception of Jon Brown, who was picked under the father-son rule.

There have been no outright failures, but no-one has developed as well as might be expected- Des Headland, Craig Bolton, Damien Cupido, Nathan Clarke, Shannon Rusca, Shane Morrison

Our good young players- Power, Black, McDonald, Notting, have all been here longer than Leigh.


I still believe that Matthews is a good coach, but I'm yet to be convinced that he's a good long-term coach.
Any opinions?

[Lionsrock_15_26]

well; in my opinion lethal is doing as best as he can. as for draft picks - well you're always taking risks and sometimes players don't live up to their "potenial". But in regard to the players you have noted not developing as one may expected: healand, craig bolton, Damien Cupido, Nathan Clarke, Shannon Rusca, Shane Morrison - i think you're being a little hard.
most of these players have only been with the club a year or two; and it took lukey power, notting, black and beau about this time to settle in. You can't expect too much to soon. Wait and see how this year evolves for these guys. The players out of these who have made the seniors; bolton, cupido, clarke, beau have all shown their potenial and ability. Bolton was in the team apart from when he had stress fractures, and beau's season was pretty impressive considering how he was virtually thrown in the deep end with the absense of keating.

i think lethal is a great coach and definetely effective in the long term.

cheers

[This message has been edited by Lionsrock_15_26 (edited 04 November 2000).]

[InTheBack!]

The Lions draft picks are some of the best in the league!

Cupido was judged by some media as one of the best, if not the best pick of 1999 after all the 1999 draft picks had their chance to show their wares during the 2000 season. He is going to be a gem of us.

We picked him up after finishing 4th so all those teams ahead of us missed out, after some contentious trading to Adelaide crows. Who thought Matty Clarke would be traded? But it has thankfully worked out - Cupido for No 6 & in the ruck we have 3 excellent choices in MacDonald, Knoble & Keating.

Collingwood have had the pick of the draft as have Fremantle for years now & got nowhere yet. Most of their certain "stars of the future" will fail or be very average.

[Tom FC]

InTheBack,what you said about Cupido was rubbish. I don't know which media you are talking about that rated him one of the best of the 99 draft picks, but this doesn't hold when you look at the statistics.
Compare Cupido's stats, 6 games 35 possessions 6 goals drafted at 6, with some other players in the 99 draft.

Brad Green 20 games 136 possessions 28 goals drafted at 19

Cameron Bruce 19 games 188 possessions 22 goals #64

Caydn Beetham 9 games 108 possessions 3 goals #9

Brett Moyle 12, 183, 3,
Matthew Pavlich 18, 217, 14,
Brad Bootsma 13, 183, 4
Brent Guerra 10, 74, 4
Leigh Brown 21, 163, 2,
Paul Hasleby 21, 449, 15, #2, and six Brownlow votes
Paul Wheatly 12, 95, 4, #20
Matthew Whelan 16, 213, 0, #50
Ben Johnson 14, 160, 7 and one Brownlow vote
Leon Davis 15, 113, 11, #35
David Spriggs 21, 251, 6, #15 (1)
Joel Corey 5, 62, 2, #8
Cameron Ling 10, 71, 3,

Each of these players have, to this point, done more than Damien Cupido.

Who knows, maybe Cupido will come good, but right now he is well and truly in the Des Headland category for players who haven't lived up to their high draft selection.

I disagree that the Lions' draft picks are among the best in the league: only one player (Jon Brown) drafted over the last two years would be guaranteed a spot in our team at the moment, and he came from the father-son rule.

[Denno]

Notice something about the players you listed Tom - most of them played in teams that finished lower than Brisbane, and in most cases, a lot further down. Of course they are going to have more chances to prove themselves. Its not that easy breaking into a successful team. Statistics only tell half the story. When Cupido DID play, he showed a lot of class - a word I wouldn't mention in the same breath as quite a few of the players you listed. I'm sure if he had've gone to a lower-finishing club - his STATS would be a bit better, but big deal - he's shown enough to suggest he will be an impact player for quite a few years yet. Remember - hes still only 18 (I think!)

[InTheBack!]

Thanks Denno,

My point was that the Lions IMO have been successful in gaining quality players DESPITE finishing with only 1 dud year since 1997.

Sure if you finish 16-12 for the last 5 years you are going to pick up high draft picks.

I was using the Cupido example to show that the Lions have been inventive is getting quality high picks, by in his case doing the unthinkable & trading Doc Clarke.

In regards to his playing ability, IMO he oozes class & confidence & is going to be a top player & I think any comparison with Headland is indeed rubbish & I dont need hours poring over statistics to come to this opinion.

Is not the father/son pick up related to drafting policy? Clubs have to use a draft pick on a father son rule. So I would say that the Lions did very well by choosing to pick up J Brown.

[This message has been edited by InTheBack! (edited 08 November 2000).]

[Tom FC]

You're right that it is probably easier for a lot of those players, given tha they've come from clubs that aren't as good, but even so the statistics just don't compare: there is no way you could back up the claim that Cupido was close to the best rookie in 2000 with factual evidence.

In any case, plenty of young players for the Lions got games this year: if a player was good enough, he's stay in the side, so I don't think lack of opportunity is really a big issue.

As for 'oozing class and confidence', I wouldn't agree with you. Don't forget he played a couple of games where he barely touched the ball, I think you'll find most of his possessions came against weak opposition, even if some of them were pretty impressive.

And in reply to saying they had the option of taking Brown or not, I should remind you that Brown was widely regarded as being a potential top ten pick, only an absolute idiot would pass him up.

This will be the last thing I say about Cupido until he has a chance to prove me wrong, (though if you post replies I'll read them)I don't think he has been impressive enough to say he'll be a great player in a few years, nor has he been bad enough to say he'll fail. I'm just yet to be convinced that Leigh Matthews is a smart player when it comes to draft picks.

[Denno]

I agree - he wasn't even close to being rookie of the year, however, some of the stuff he's done (One hander against WC, for example) is not run of the mill stuff. Personally,I think he is a player possessed with balance, and he seems to have a lot of time on his hands. Attributes that don't get taught. Who knows, he may never live up to his potential, but our recruiting department has been right on the money over the last few years. I don't think that will change. With or without Matthews.

[InTheBack!]

You bring up an intersting point - how much does the coach influence recruiting?

Does the team instructed/headed by the coach have a plan of type of players they need & instruct the recruiting manager to find them?

Do they rely on the recruiting managers & just make an appearance at the last minute?

[Denno]

Considering the recruiting department is all over the country, including scouts, managers etc. - I'd reckon that they would have a fair idea about the talent on offer everywhere. The football dept. (G. Allan etc.) would prob. identify our weaknesses, and then they would identify players to (hopefully) address these weaknesses. I still think the coach would have the final say though. Thats my guess, anyway.

[InTheBack!]

Hi Tom FC - I had to chuckle after reading the post on the Lions forum via this hyperlink.
http://lions.com.au/forum/messages/163/1739.html?

A popular boy is our Mr Cupido :-)

[Dodongo]

Lethal is not a good coach. Dodongo says Lethal will be sacked soon enough

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