View Full Version : England don't pick homegrown players any more ...
damochandler
5 Aug 2009, 15:53
England coach Andy Flower insists the call-up of South African-born batsman Jonathan Trott to the squad for the fourth Ashes Test at Headingley is not a slight on native players.
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,25886412-5009880,00.html
how pathetic is their county system and how pathetic are their selectors in not having much faith in the system
Got to love a guy whose nickname (according to wikopedia) is Booger.....
DeadlyAkkuret
5 Aug 2009, 22:01
It's a strange state of affairs when the easiest way to get into the English team is to be South African.
JimDocker
6 Aug 2009, 10:15
If the best available player happens to be born in South Africa, pick him.
If the best available player happens to be born in England, pick him instead. As an England supporter, I don't have an issue with it.
He has been qualified to play for England for a while now and if he is picked on form, which an average of 93 this season would indicate, then fair play.
I would be more concerned if they chose not to pick him because he is born elswhere when he qualifies as an England player.
Good of us to play South Africa in 3 series in a row.
If the best available player happens to be born in South Africa, pick him.
If the best available player happens to be born in England, pick him instead. As an England supporter, I don't have an issue with it.
He has been qualified to play for England for a while now and if he is picked on form, which an average of 93 this season would indicate, then fair play.
I would be more concerned if they chose not to pick him because he is born elswhere when he qualifies as an England player.
Wat i can't understand out of a country of 70 million people you can;t 11 people born in that country to represent your cricket team.
Austalia has 21 million people and 11 players are all born in australia.
JimDocker
6 Aug 2009, 11:17
Wat i can't understand out of a country of 70 million people you can;t 11 people born in that country to represent your cricket team.
Austalia has 21 million people and 11 players are all born in australia.
I understand where you are coming from, but what are the selectors to do when a guy that plays in the English county system on a British passport is averaging 93 ?
Until Symonds breached the behavioural code one too many times, Australia had an English born player in their side.
It is the nature of the global sporting world now that people cross borders to get the best possible opportunities for themselves.
At the Beijing Olympics, Australia had 433 athletes competing with ten per cent being born overseas. Good luck to those people I reckon for doing what it takes to follow their sporting dreams.
Wasn't Ed Joyce in the same boat? Whatever happened to him?
You could just hear the howls of derision all the way from England if Australia picked so many players not born in Australia. Most likely not from the England team but the moronic English media would have a field day IMO:(
mansize rooster
6 Aug 2009, 16:29
more proof englands own players are shit
Blue Dimension
6 Aug 2009, 16:36
Wasn't Ed Joyce in the same boat? Whatever happened to him?
Ed Joyce, Tim Ambrose, Eoin Morgan... the list goes on :p
Joyce is playing county cricket atm. Afaik not good enough to be playing for England.
Ed Joyce, Tim Ambrose, Eoin Morgan... the list goes on :p
Joyce is playing county cricket atm. Afaik not good enough to be playing for England.
Gavin Hamilton too. South Africans, Irish, Scottish, Welsh (not as big a deal-England & Wales Cricket Board) have all played for England during the past decade.
Wat i can't understand out of a country of 70 million people you can;t 11 people born in that country to represent your cricket team.
Austalia has 21 million people and 11 players are all born in australia.
England have around 51 million actually.
Illinois Nazi
6 Aug 2009, 21:33
Give them a break, they want to win the series - why would they pick Englishmen to do that?
TorresIsGod
6 Aug 2009, 23:54
Who cares? You guys go on about it like it's the end of the world?
He's qualified to play for England. They've picked him on form, he's been dominating at FC level.
**** me.
I understand where you are coming from, but what are the selectors to do when a guy that plays in the English county system on a British passport is averaging 93 ?
Until Symonds breached the behavioural code one too many times, Australia had an English born player in their side..
Difference was Symonds was born in England and was adopted to Australia after 4 weeks, so he grew up In Australia and knows no different.
I understand England should select the best player available regardless of where they were born or grew up. I cant understand why their on born, bred and develop players are lacking.
England have around 51 million actually.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_state 61 million
TheColeTrain
7 Aug 2009, 11:46
Can anybody honestly say they would if given the choice of having a South African or an Englishman to play Cricket you would go for the English person?
JimDocker
7 Aug 2009, 14:03
Difference was Symonds was born in England and was adopted to Australia after 4 weeks, so he grew up In Australia and knows no different.
I understand England should select the best player available regardless of where they were born or grew up. I cant understand why their on born, bred and develop players are lacking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_state 61 million
I note that you are a Melbourne supporter.
Why did Melbourne recruit Jim Stynes ? Not enough footy players in Australia ?
Same goes for Swans with Tadgh Kennelly, Carlton with Setanta O hAilpin, Brisbane with Colm Begley and Collingwood with Martin Clarke ?
Why did VFL teams all those years ago start recruiting players like Polly Farmer from WA ?
As sport becomes more professional, people will cross borders to follow their dreams. If sporting organisations do not take advantage of it, then they are not doing their job properly.
Some first class whingeing and nit picking on this thread !
TheColeTrain
7 Aug 2009, 15:30
You can not be serious surely?
Somebody coming over to play for a football club is a fair bit different then representing a different country from what you were born and raised in
Who cares? You guys go on about it like it's the end of the world?
He's qualified to play for England. They've picked him on form, he's been dominating at FC level.
**** me.
NO THANKS:eek:
Nel Mangle
7 Aug 2009, 20:21
This shit only gets brought up when the saggy greens are losing.
Just another excuse to have a whinge..
I think every thread in this forum has 90% whinging posts. If aint the umpires ,the weather ,pitch ...its something else..
I dont think I could stomach listening to an Australian for 1 minute. Someone would get killed.
more proof englands own players are shit
if you forget that australia got wrecked by flintoff ,anderson,onions,etc in the other games.
damochandler
7 Aug 2009, 20:47
This shit only gets brought up when the saggy greens are losing.
Just another excuse to have a whinge..
I think every thread in this forum has 90% whinging posts. If aint the umpires ,the weather ,pitch ...its something else..
I dont think I could stomach listening to an Australian for 1 minute. Someone would get killed.
if you forget that australia got wrecked by flintoff ,anderson,onions,etc in the other games.
great response that. well if those 3 are soo good. why dont they pick an english player than
The thing is about Trott he played under 19 cricket for SA so he's very different to Symonds who came here as a toddler.
I believe we're just coming to the end of an era of South Africans using the Kolpak system to get residency and play for counties as Non-Overseas and possibly England. The ECB and the Counties have been investing in Academy Cricket alot over the past 5 years and products of the academies will be showing soon enough with Steven Davies, Adul Rashid, Steven Finn, Joe Denly, Tom Smith, James Taylor, James Vince playing regular FC Cricket and looking to part of the England team soon, some sooner than others of course but there is definite more talent coming through the counties than 10 years ago.
This shit only gets brought up when the saggy greens are losing.
Just another excuse to have a whinge..
I think every thread in this forum has 90% whinging posts. If aint the umpires ,the weather ,pitch ...its something else..
I dont think I could stomach listening to an Australian for 1 minute. Someone would get killed.
Nobody's forcing you to post here.
JimDocker
10 Aug 2009, 09:55
You can not be serious surely?
Somebody coming over to play for a football club is a fair bit different then representing a different country from what you were born and raised in
I am serious and don't call me Shirley.
I note that you are a Melbourne supporter.
Why did Melbourne recruit Jim Stynes ? Not enough footy players in Australia ?
Same goes for Swans with Tadgh Kennelly, Carlton with Setanta O hAilpin, Brisbane with Colm Begley and Collingwood with Martin Clarke ?
Why did VFL teams all those years ago start recruiting players like Polly Farmer from WA ?
As sport becomes more professional, people will cross borders to follow their dreams. If sporting organisations do not take advantage of it, then they are not doing their job properly.
Some first class whingeing and nit picking on this thread !
You are really clutching at straws your symonds analogy had some merit, but that analogy is terrible not even close to being the same.
Firstly AFL is represented by clubs not a country, you are not restricted who you play for by where you are born.
Face it Australia can produce its own local talent with a population the third of the size of Britan and England cant even find 11 players born and bred in their own country, maybe you can borrow india's middle order to help you win the last test!
TheColeTrain
10 Aug 2009, 12:08
I am serious and don't call me Shirley.
Then you are a simpleton, their is absolutely no comparison between getting an Irishman play for a AFL club and having a South African represent England
JimDocker
10 Aug 2009, 13:34
You are really clutching at straws your symonds analogy had some merit, but that analogy is terrible not even close to being the same.
Firstly AFL is represented by clubs not a country, you are not restricted who you play for by where you are born.
Face it Australia can produce its own local talent with a population the third of the size of Britan and England cant even find 11 players born and bred in their own country, maybe you can borrow india's middle order to help you win the last test!
None of my statements are partial in anyway.I am merely staing that professional sportspeople will go looking for opportunities and I would prefer that they get them rather than not.
Australia are the greatest cricketing nation in history and I am not refuting that. They have a brilliant set up that produces quality cricketers generation after generation and England hasn't.
Allowing players from overseas to represent England is not the answer to their woes, but I simply do not believe that there is anything wrong with them selecting them. It is a fact of modern sport that players cross boundaries and I just used some examples.
The 4 super 14 rugby sides in Australia have 31 players not born in Australia. The Australian side is picked from these and while I know Vickerman represented South Africa at under 19 level before being poached and representing Australia at Test level, I cannot see the details for more players as no place of birth is given on the ARU web site for players.
Then you are a simpleton, their is absolutely no comparison between getting an Irishman play for a AFL club and having a South African represent England
Yet you fail to comment on the ten per cent of the Australian Olympic team being born overseas. Is there a comparison there ?
And are we going to strike from the record books any success that Australia had while Kepler Wessels played for them. Clarrie Grimmett is another overseas player that develpoed overseas yet represented Australia with distinction.
Like I said. It is not the answer to England's cricketing problems, I just feel sportspeople have the right to cross borders to play their sport and that is where the comparison with AFL players from Ireland lay.
DeadlyAkkuret
10 Aug 2009, 15:39
This shit only gets brought up when the saggy greens are losing.
Just another excuse to have a whinge..
I think every thread in this forum has 90% whinging posts. If aint the umpires ,the weather ,pitch ...its something else..
I dont think I could stomach listening to an Australian for 1 minute. Someone would get killed.
I'd guess that most of those are from you.
None of my statements are partial in anyway.I am merely staing that professional sportspeople will go looking for opportunities and I would prefer that they get them rather than not.
Australia are the greatest cricketing nation in history and I am not refuting that. They have a brilliant set up that produces quality cricketers generation after generation and England hasn't.
Allowing players from overseas to represent England is not the answer to their woes, but I simply do not believe that there is anything wrong with them selecting them. It is a fact of modern sport that players cross boundaries and I just used some examples.
The 4 super 14 rugby sides in Australia have 31 players not born in Australia. The Australian side is picked from these and while I know Vickerman represented South Africa at under 19 level before being poached and representing Australia at Test level, I cannot see the details for more players as no place of birth is given on the ARU web site for players.
Yet you fail to comment on the ten per cent of the Australian Olympic team being born overseas. Is there a comparison there ?
And are we going to strike from the record books any success that Australia had while Kepler Wessels played for them. Clarrie Grimmett is another overseas player that develpoed overseas yet represented Australia with distinction.
Like I said. It is not the answer to England's cricketing problems, I just feel sportspeople have the right to cross borders to play their sport and that is where the comparison with AFL players from Ireland lay.
We are not talking about Rugby or the olympics, and we are not talking about players from the 50's 60's or 70's.
The fact is England can not produce 11 players born and bred to represent its cricket team. The Olympics is made up of 100's of competitors in a smaller country like ours you will find people born overseas coming to make the olympics. But when you cannont find 11 yes thats right 11 people not 400 people to make up a team that is embarrasing.
I agree with you nothing wrong with picking overseas players if their form warrants, the worry is you don't have 11 players of your own to chose from! You can argue and use all the analogies udner the sun the fact is out of a country with a population 3 times the size of Australia you can;t make a team of 11 people with your own players!