Regarding Henry

[BrunoV]

This is not just a reaction to yesterday (specifically he was putrid last week as well) he has a history.

I will acknolwedge his strenghts before getting tuck in because it is only fair. He is up there with the most courageous players in the league (evidenced by his mark in the thrid quarter to cut of a Riewoldt lead). Henry can also do the occassional stopping role on some of the more average small forwards in the game.

The major issue I have is that Slattery simply cannot play the game. The first thing Slattery supporters will do in response to this will point to a game where he arguably beat someone of the ilk of Didak as evidence that he has a role to play. Arguably, he beat Milne one on one last night as well. There major issue with the line of argument is that by vitrue of their role, small forwards don't gusually get much of the ball and fade in and out of games which is as much the result of their own team as it is the performance of the backman. Just beating one of these players is not good enough, especially when we need good decision makers (and users of the ball) coming out of the areas that Slattery oftenfinds himself.

The win last night paints over a few cracks from last week that are still there. The major crack is our system of bringing the ball out of defence (our players still dont actually understan when to handball the ball). More often than not when we turn the ball over without even kicking the thing Slattey is involved. The stats dont reflect just how much he turns the ball over because he doesn't kick the thing.

The insistance that we need Slattery has to stop. His role is essentially simple andcan be taught to a player like Houli who can actually play the game.

Slattery is a liability whose output is negative most weeks.

[daffo]

I don't think he is that bad. He stopped Milne the whole game (apart from that 10 min period and two of his three goals really weren't his fault)

[AS9]

I don't think you could be more wrong. Mulitple times last night when the game was in the balance he put his body on the line and won some massive hard ball.

You may be able to teach a player how to defend but you cannot teach a player to show the courage of Slats and win the hard ball. That is all guts and instinct.

I thought he was one of our best players last night and a key to our defense going forward.

[hugorune]

Hmm, I read the original post and I can't say that I saw any real reasons as to why Slattery is a bad player. It's an opinion and that's understandable, we all have our opinions about players. The selectors go off performances, and that's why Slattery has consistently been selected.

[Kong]

I thought he was one of our best players last night and a key to our defense going forward.Yep, definitely.

Sick to death of the Slattery bashing. Absolute bollocks.

[Spikey]

cant kick and he is really slow play houil hes really awesome! who cares about houils defensive worries

[BrunoV]

So you are guys just going to ignore the 5 critical turn overs last night and the 10 (maybe exaggeated by one or two) from last week, and all of the weeks past?

Something I forgot to mention in the OP is that we have seen it all. There is virtually no improvement left, other than cleaning up the disposal / decision making (which is very difficult to teach). He can't play the game, and is not of AFL standard. His position has to be question (more than it is).

[Daytripper]

So you are guys just going to ignore the 5 critical turn overs last night and the 10 (maybe exaggeated by one or two) from last week, and all of the weeks past?

3 clangers yesterday and 1 from the week before.

Try and get something right please.

[BrunoV]

Whomb, as sick as you are of the Slatery basing we (his critics) are sick of the blind obedience to the party line of the 'We love Henry Slattery and weill defend him regardless of his performance' fan club.

Anyone suggesting that he was one of our best has lost the plot. He turned the ball over at crucial tims, not to mention handballing to players under pressure.

[Longy413]

He makes one mistake a week that stands out and we end up with threads like this.

He was brilliant last night, let's not forget that he doesn't just get the oppositions most dangerous small each week but he's expected to chop off leads from power forwards.

Week after week he puts himself in a position to get smashed and keeps going back for more. A couple of his marks last night set the agenda for the night.

Yep, he makes mistakes. So does Fletcher, so does Watson...

Wouldn't be at all surprised if he finished 5-8 in the B&F.

[Grey Smith Bar]

The club disagrees, had him listed in the Best players for the game.

[Spikey]

Anyone suggesting that he was one of our best has lost the plot. He turned the ball over at crucial tims, not to mention handballing to players under pressure.

Just wondering, I didn't get to watch the game as per usual, but how many times was he given the ball under pressure? How many of his handballs to players under pressure were due to himself receiving a handball under pressure?

[BrunoV]

3 clangers yesterday and 1 from the week before.

Try and get something right please.


Like I said, his turnovers are not refelcted in stats.

They are handballs to players under pressure, refusing to kick the ball even though he should and other poor decisions.

[Knight Ryders]

A major crack in our game is how we bring it out of defence. Are you serious? We carved a hole through their zone from the run and dare through the back half in the first three quarters, but we tighten up and had tired players in the last quarter.

We were the first team to kick over a 100 points against the Saints all year and it was hugely due to our play from defence. Also, the way we bring the ball out of defence means that sometimes we do turn the ball over, but much more is created out of this play than is forfeited. I think you'll see a few more teams trying this style of play against the Saints over the last four weeks of September.

Not every player on our list needs to be silky smooth. Sometimes it has to be the gritty one-on-one players that need to play a role for the team and Slats does this atm. It is very common that your best 22 players don't make up your final 22. You need team balance.

[hank31]

personally i rate slats... but to be honest he is a bettler.. he would have been a much better player in the 90s where you could hold and scrag a little more.. my only problem with him is that he gives away stupid free kicks too regularly right around the goals.. if he can eliminate this he is definately part of our next premiership charge..

[Daytripper]

He was brilliant last night, let's not forget that he doesn't just get the oppositions most dangerous small each week but he's expected to chop off leads from power forwards.

Week after week he puts himself in a position to get smashed and keeps going back for more. A couple of his marks last night set the agenda for the night..

Well said Longy.

Unbeleivable how some players are judged.

[Knight Ryders]

Like I said, his turnovers are not refelcted in stats.

They are handballs to players under pressure, refusing to kick the ball even though he should and other poor decisions.

This is a part of modern football. A quick give to a player under pressure with the understanding to get it back quite often creates the extra yardage to set a player free to deliver it up field. We did it well yesterday, but there are times that it is going to fail - particularly against a tackling team like the Saints.

It is better to try and win a game (take chances) that not try and lose like a lot of teams have done agains the Saints this year.

[james_omahoney]

Clubs will be thanking the Bombers for the blueprint.

[HighettBomber]

Whomb, as sick as you are of the Slatery basing we (his critics) are sick of the blind obedience to the party line of the 'We love Henry Slattery and weill defend him regardless of his performance' fan club.

Anyone suggesting that he was one of our best has lost the plot. He turned the ball over at crucial tims, not to mention handballing to players under pressure.

Well stated. You have to admire his efort and c ourage, b ut th is doesn't change the fact that he is simply not very good.

Prior to the last 2 weeks Slattery fans were asking who else we have that can play on small forwards. I think Atkinson has proved, without doubt, that he is abetter option. Houli did a better job on Milne last time than Slattery did yesterday. We have Hocking, Reimers, Dempsey, Winderlich, Welsh and Dyson who can all play a small defenders role, all are better options, so where does Henry fit in?

[Longy413]

Hocking is not a better option, Houli did not do a better job.
I haven't seen Houli do what Slattery did in front of Roo and Kosi last night.

Winderlich, Dyson and Welsh are midfielders.

Reimers and Dempsey are attacking half back flankers.

Why would we rob ourselves of attacking players to remove a bloke who does his job every week?

[Boiled Geezer]

Slats is completely underrated and keeps his direct opponent quiet most weeks. Look at the games he was missing, our backline looked a shambles. He may look like a deer caught in headlights sometimes when he has the ball, but his negating role against his opponent cannot be emphasised enough.

Haters, watch the game properly and get a clue.

[ManWithNoName]

Sorry, how much of an impact did the best goal sneak in the AFL have yesterday?

I love when people make judgements without taking the actual game into consideration.

[Phat Toni]

I can understand people's frustration with Slatts, but people forget it takes 22 different styles of players to create a winning team. As much as you need fast skillful players you need courageous tough players who stick to a task. For the mistakes Slatts makes he more than makes up for it with other efforts that the Slatts bashers tend to over look. I can think of two mistakes that cost goals yesterday and we all know that's not great but when your playing on the last line of defense in a defensive unit as young as the one we trotted out in the 2nd half these things happen!

[lemon chicken]

Just wondering, I didn't get to watch the game as per usual, but how many times was he given the ball under pressure? How many of his handballs to players under pressure were due to himself receiving a handball under pressure?

^^^^^^This. And I know which player kept selling him hospital handballs.

[table tennis]

People need to remember, when hank playing in a back pocket, His mistakes are more obvious as a shot at goal usually the result.

Midfielders turn the ball over consistently, however its not as obvious.

Slattery, has been a very good contributer to the side this season.

Sometimes though he is indescisive, however, even brendan goddard was yesterday.

[bomberbilly]

Slattery is first picked every week. I love having him in our side and so does every single person at the club whose opinion actually matters and know what they are talking about. Well done Slats!

[DapperDon]

FFS, are we really asking if Slatts is in our best 22?

Please all you Slatts haters, go to the class "Understanding AFL 101" then come back to this site.

Thankyou.

[Bombs Away]

This is not just a reaction to yesterday (specifically he was putrid last week as well) he has a history.

I will acknolwedge his strenghts before getting tuck in because it is only fair. He is up there with the most courageous players in the league (evidenced by his mark in the thrid quarter to cut of a Riewoldt lead). Henry can also do the occassional stopping role on some of the more average small forwards in the game.

The major issue I have is that Slattery simply cannot play the game. The first thing Slattery supporters will do in response to this will point to a game where he arguably beat someone of the ilk of Didak as evidence that he has a role to play. Arguably, he beat Milne one on one last night as well. There major issue with the line of argument is that by vitrue of their role, small forwards don't gusually get much of the ball and fade in and out of games which is as much the result of their own team as it is the performance of the backman. Just beating one of these players is not good enough, especially when we need good decision makers (and users of the ball) coming out of the areas that Slattery oftenfinds himself.

The win last night paints over a few cracks from last week that are still there. The major crack is our system of bringing the ball out of defence (our players still dont actually understan when to handball the ball). More often than not when we turn the ball over without even kicking the thing Slattey is involved. The stats dont reflect just how much he turns the ball over because he doesn't kick the thing.

The insistance that we need Slattery has to stop. His role is essentially simple andcan be taught to a player like Houli who can actually play the game.

Slattery is a liability whose output is negative most weeks.


Exactly right with everything you write there. Houli or Atkinson can do his role and have more impact with better disposal and better pace and skill

[Seb78]

I thought he was quite good early, took a couple of gutsy marks going back with the flight, and held the tip rat early on. There were patches where he looked at his clumsy best when the pressure was on late in the game, he made me sh!t myself on a couple of occasions.

In all seriousness I thought the good things he did early on far outweighed the bad things so good on him.

[pazza]

He is probably having his best ever season.

When they tally the B and f votes, I'm expecting to see Slatts in the top 10 this year. Solid and consistent.

[topdon]

FFS, are we really asking if Slatts is in our best 22?

Please all you Slatts haters, go to the class "Understanding AFL 101" then come back to this site.

Thankyou.

+1. Morons the lot of 'em! Slatts does his job every week and would be one of the first players picked. He was fantastic yesterday. Some of his efforts to win the ball were phenomenal. He gets bagged each week for making 1 mistake that costs a goal. Pathetic!

[topdon]

Exactly right with everything you write there. Houli or Atkinson can do his role and have more impact with better disposal and better pace and skill

Houli? HOULI? The man who doesn't have a defensive bone in his body? Please!!

[Smyth94]

The only conclusion that I can think of when threads like these have been created is that the poster/s have a vendetta against Henry because for some reason, when he stuffs up, its magnified x1000.

Watson's poor decision making directly cost us two goals last night, where are the threads on this?

Nuffies, the lot of ya.

[Valve Bounce]

Like I said, his turnovers are not refelcted in stats.

They are handballs to players under pressure, refusing to kick the ball even though he should and other poor decisions.

I think Slattery played a great part in St Kilda not winning. He has to play the role given to him and he did that well. I can tell you this much: he was one of the players who was exhausted towards the end of the game. We had no fit player left on the bench. In fact there was only one guy left for interchange. No one could get any rest on the bench!!

I don't mind you bad mouthing a player if he does bad, but be fair and look at the contribution Henry made to St Kilda not winning. If you want to pick on someone, go find a St Kilda player who didn't play well. That should satisfy your anger.

[donsman4eva]

Sure Slattery mightnt be a 'brilliant' player. He is a workhorse, and does his job for the team. Pick any premiership side and they will have atleast one of these guys. He is an essential part of our team and I dare say he would be one of the first players picked every week. Put him down as a top 10 B&F certainty.

[HighettBomber]

Hocking is not a better option, Houli did not do a better job.
I haven't seen Houli do what Slattery did in front of Roo and Kosi last night.

Winderlich, Dyson and Welsh are midfielders.

Reimers and Dempsey are attacking half back flankers.

Why would we rob ourselves of attacking players to remove a bloke who does his job every week?

Milne had 13 touches and kicked 1 goal against Houli, while Houli had it 24 times in a game that we lost. Milne had 12 touches and kicked 3 goals against Slattery, who had 14 touches. How exactly did Houli not do a better job?

Have a look at the Geelong game and compare the performances on Steve Johnson of Hocking in the first quarter and Hank for the rest of the game. Hocking is a better player by amassive margin.

Winderlich, Dyson and Welsh have all played in the backline. They are just capable of playing elsewhere as well.

All defenders need to have an atacking side to their game. Dempsey and Reimers both can play on similer types of players, so the comparison is valid.

Instead of hurling insults, how about someone actually explain why they think Slattery is a better option than any one of these players. I'm happy to be wrong about him, I'd love him to be agood player. The problem is that he just isn't!

[The Donners]

Slattery is a liability whose output is negative most weeks.

I couldn't agree with you more.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, his heart is in the right place but he's simply not good enough. Holds the ball up, gives away sloppy free kicks and gets caught at least once a week that results in a goal.

[The Donners]

Milne had 13 touches and kicked 1 goal against Houli, while Houli had it 24 times in a game that we lost. Milne had 12 touches and kicked 3 goals against Slattery, who had 14 touches. How exactly did Houli not do a better job?

Have a look at the Geelong game and compare the performances on Steve Johnson of Hocking in the first quarter and Hank for the rest of the game. Hocking is a better player by amassive margin.

Winderlich, Dyson and Welsh have all played in the backline. They are just capable of playing elsewhere as well.

All defenders need to have an atacking side to their game. Dempsey and Reimers both can play on similer types of players, so the comparison is valid.

Instead of hurling insults, how about someone actually explain why they think Slattery is a better option than any one of these players. I'm happy to be wrong about him, I'd love him to be agood player. The problem is that he just isn't!

I call for McVeigh to be moved down back, he was brilliant in '07 as the small defender/general. I'm sounding like a broken record, I've made this comment a shiteload! :D

[DapperDon]

and gets caught at least once a week that results in a goal.

What about the multiple goals he saves or stops? No mention of them, or are we just looking at his mistakes?

[Skeeta Olly]

He had a great game last night.

[Longy413]

Exactly right with everything you write there. Houli or Atkinson can do his role and have more impact with better disposal and better pace and skill

Had Slattery been in the position Atkinson was last night, Riewoldt wouldn't have had a chance to win the game for them.

Milne had 13 touches and kicked 1 goal against Houli, while Houli had it 24 times in a game that we lost. Milne had 12 touches and kicked 3 goals against Slattery, who had 14 touches. How exactly did Houli not do a better job?

Actually, you're wrong. But I expected you to be subjected.

Milne kicked his first goal on Atkinson and kicked his second when Slattery went back in a pack to stop Kosi marking.

You're right, he would never had kicked that goal on Houli, because Kosi would have marked the ball.

Have a look at the Geelong game and compare the performances on Steve Johnson of Hocking in the first quarter and Hank for the rest of the game. Hocking is a better player by amassive margin.

You're not serious are you?

Hocking was moved off him and as a result Slattery had to go onto a bloke who was red hot.

Hocking is playing reserves and Slattery will finish top ten in our B&F. I can only conclude that Slattery is a better footballer than Hocking.

Winderlich, Dyson and Welsh have all played in the backline. They are just capable of playing elsewhere as well.

All defenders need to have an atacking side to their game. Dempsey and Reimers both can play on similer types of players, so the comparison is valid.


It isn't. Because taking them out of those roles and into a back pocket and a pure stopping role makes our side worse, not better.

Instead of hurling insults, how about someone actually explain why they think Slattery is a better option than any one of these players. I'm happy to be wrong about him, I'd love him to be agood player. The problem is that he just isn't!

Because Slattery beats his opponent most weeks.
He gets beaten, yes of course he does. So have Pears and Fletcher.

But he is reliable and he also makes the job of Pears, Hurley, Fletch and anyone else down there easier.

Hocking doesn't do that, Winderlich doesn't do that, Reimers doesn't do that, Atkinson doesn't do that, Houli doesn't do that. The only one that does is Dempsey and I'm pretty happy to leave him where he is at the moment.

[donsman4eva]

All defenders need to have an atacking side to their game.

What Utter Garbage. Some of the best defenders have no attacking side to their game. Look at the likes of Max Hudghton, Darren Glass, Ben Rutten and Presti. They are great DEFENDERS. Defenders need to defend. anything else is a bonus.


Instead of hurling insults, how about someone actually explain why they think Slattery is a better option than any one of these players.
Slattery is in the side as a defender. if he isnt in the team, who becomes the small defender? Believe it or not, most teams have good small forwards. They need to be negated with defenders, not running players. Guys like Milne, Le Cras, Porplyzia and Betts demand respect. If players try to run off them, they will get hurt. Stop a good small forward and you go a long way to winning the game.

[Ben the Gooner]

Like I said, his turnovers are not refelcted in stats.

This is where you start to lose any semblance of credibility. His turnovers are not reflected in stats because you blame a goal which comes when Slatts didn't make up a 20m lead to a player who isn't his opponent who kicked a goal.

Then as the game progresses, that one goal which was supposedly Slatts' fault becomes 2 goals or 3 goals, as you extrapolate, and suddenly, it's Slatts' fault that St Kilda beat us by 105 points last year.

You sound just like my dad.

[essendon2008]

He played great on Sunday night. Is starting to read the ball more and attack it. He is no star and maybe not good enough to be in our backline forever, but for now he is doing a good job and I can't see anyone who would warrant replacing him.

Until we get a gun player to replace him, he is gonna stay around. Atleast look at one fact: he barely gets injured.

If he eliminated the couple of silly things a game he does he would be pretty good.

[Big Scottknowsall]

I don't think you could be more wrong. Mulitple times last night when the game was in the balance he put his body on the line and won some massive hard ball.

You may be able to teach a player how to defend but you cannot teach a player to show the courage of Slats and win the hard ball. That is all guts and instinct.

I thought he was one of our best players last night and a key to our defense going forward.

Agree, he was close to going in my votes...Puts his head over it every single time and his decision making by foot is getting better and better as he gets more experienced.

[Sealz]

The guys playing in a position where every mistake is magnified... same errors made in the forward 50 are forgotten within minutes... Slatts coughs it up and people want him axed...

Did a great stopping job yesterday...Happy with what he brings to the table every week... you always know that he'll give 100%...

[HighettBomber]

You're not serious are you?

Hocking was moved off him and as a result Slattery had to go onto a bloke who was red hot.

Hocking is playing reserves and Slattery will finish top ten in our B&F. I can only conclude that Slattery is a better footballer than Hocking.


Hocking was on him in the first quarter and had 1 goal kicked on him, he kicked 5 more for the game, all on Hank. You need to get your facts straight.

You are correct that Hocking is playing reserves and Hank probably will do well in our B&F, because the coaches seem to think he contributes something, I just can't see what.

Actually, you're wrong. But I expected you to be subjected.

Milne kicked his first goal on Atkinson and kicked his second when Slattery went back in a pack to stop Kosi marking.

You're right, he would never had kicked that goal on Houli, because Kosi would have marked the ball.


Those stats are correct, check them yourself. Also try to use the English language, I don't understand Bogan particularly well.

What Utter Garbage. Some of the best defenders have no attacking side to their game. Look at the likes of Max Hudghton, Darren Glass, Ben Rutten and Presti. They are great DEFENDERS. Defenders need to defend. anything else is a bonus.

They are all Full Backs, I suggest you choose some more reasonable comparisons if you are going to mount an intelliget argument.

[Jonesy1987]

Slattery was great last night, showed huge courage cutting across the mark in front of Riewolt :thumbsu: But I suppose it was his fault when Prismall handballed straight into Milne's guts 5 metres out... :rolleyes:

[The Donners]

What about the multiple goals he saves or stops? No mention of them, or are we just looking at his mistakes?

I wouldn't think he saves too many goals at all. Name the number of small forwards that have had quiet games against Essendon.

[danzan22]

You are correct that Hocking is playing reserves and Hank probably will do well in our B&F, because the coaches seem to think he contributes something, I just can't see what.


I think the reason why the coaches love Henry and why he will poll highly is because he gives it his all, he never backs down from a contest and does reasonable jobs against the best small fowards in the business

[DapperDon]

I wouldn't think he saves too many goals at all. Name the number of small forwards that have had quiet games against Essendon.

Name the one's that have torn us apart?

Motlop kicked 3 in round 1, Betts and Davis kicked 2 when we played Carlton and Collingwood the first time. Rioli, Dew and Williams only kicked 1 each for Hawks, can't remember who Slatts played on that game. Milne kicked 1 in round 8 Brown kicked 2 for Richmond when we played them (Though I remember McPhee lining up against him).

Steve Johnson beat him easily, he was in pristine form then.

Betts kicked 3 and Davis 1 in the return matches. Lecras kicked 3 for WC and Milne kicked 3 last night.

So tell me, other than Steve Johnson, where did these small forwards tear us (or Slatts) apart?

[Longy413]

Hocking was on him in the first quarter and had 1 goal kicked on him, he kicked 5 more for the game, all on Hank. You need to get your facts straight.

You are very, very wrong.

You are correct that Hocking is playing reserves and Hank probably will do well in our B&F, because the coaches seem to think he contributes something, I just can't see what.

That doesn't surprise me.

Those stats are correct, check them yourself. Also try to use the English language, I don't understand Bogan particularly well.


I guess when all is lost, pick on a typo.

Fact is Houli is not a better small defender than Slattery. In their only like-for-like match up both had one goal kicked on them, yet you have tried to manipulate the statistics to suit your own argument.

Not once has Houli given an example of where he is willing to go back with the flight of the ball. Let's also ensure we don't discount the number of other leads Slattery chops off.

Boo-hoo he turned it over once or twice, he saved plenty.

[Mad Bomber Sean]

I keep reading really dump posts by people who (perhaps) should know better
as supporters of the mighty Dons..

Who did we play against yesterday again?

It was a full strength Saints team...With a historically brilliant undefeated season up to that game.

To the few people hacking away at reputations of Slatts & NLM. Wake up & understand both played there roles well last night. Experienced tough hard bodied fierce courageous willing & sometimes violent... They may not be the best kicks, or sublime marks or the fastest players in the team like you want but they were good last night.. They both fulfilled the coaches roles & we won the game against a truly awesome team.

[efcboy]

no doubt he has his pros and cons - yesterday his courageous efforts saved a number of goals and probably inspired his teammates. however his skills and decision making at times are ordinary - i don't know what he was thinking in the last quarter when he was caught holding the ball right in front of st kildas goals...

ideally you'd want a quicker, more skilled player in the side but until a player such as myers or tyson slattery steps up and puts in the effort courage and defensive wise that henry does then he will continue to get a game.

in the last 2 weeks jarrod atkinson has stepped up in this area which has resulted in the slower, less-skilled heath hocking being omitted. so in 2010 we can only hope that one of myers, tyson slattery or a new recruit improves enough so that the team is so strong that there is no role for henry.

[The Donners]

Name the one's that have torn us apart?

Motlop kicked 3 in round 1, Betts and Davis kicked 2 when we played Carlton and Collingwood the first time. Rioli, Dew and Williams only kicked 1 each for Hawks, can't remember who Slatts played on that game. Milne kicked 1 in round 8 Brown kicked 2 for Richmond when we played them (Though I remember McPhee lining up against him).

Steve Johnson beat him easily, he was in pristine form then.

Betts kicked 3 and Davis 1 in the return matches. Lecras kicked 3 for WC and Milne kicked 3 last night.

So tell me, other than Steve Johnson, where did these small forwards tear us (or Slatts) apart?

Betts (round 3), Davis and Rioli were all playing midfield.

Motlop 4 goals
Peake 2 goals
Wiggins 2 goals
Morton 3 goals
LeCras 3 goals
Johnson 6 goals
Knights 5 goals
Betts 3 goals
Welsh 3 goals
Milne 3 goals

[Valve Bounce]

He had a great game last night.

:thumbsu::thumbsu:

[yaco55]

He makes one mistake a week that stands out and we end up with threads like this.

He was brilliant last night, let's not forget that he doesn't just get the oppositions most dangerous small each week but he's expected to chop off leads from power forwards.

Week after week he puts himself in a position to get smashed and keeps going back for more. A couple of his marks last night set the agenda for the night.

Yep, he makes mistakes. So does Fletcher, so does Watson...

Wouldn't be at all surprised if he finished 5-8 in the B&F.

By my reckoning Slattery would be coming 3rd in the B and F.

But of course the Coaches have no idea.

[Big Blow Hard]

The OP on this occasion is just plain wrong.

Slattery may not have the bells and whistles and flash of some of our other players. But he is so, so, so, critical down back. His role is so underrated. I did not see anythin Slatts done last night as the cause of St Kildas fight back. Rather, I look to the instance when he made the call to leave his man and cut off a pass into 50 that would most likely have ended in a St Kilda goal. It takes guts to do something like that, and it also highlighted how switched on he is. Our prolems down back come from inexperienced guys selling each other int trouble, and experienced guys like NLM making the occassional same mistake.

Slattery = More than Adequate.

[Smyth94]

Whoever fails to understand what Slatts brings to our side has never played footy, or a team sport for that matter.

[Big Blow Hard]

Whoever fails to understand what Slatts brings to our side has never played footy, or a team sport for that matter.

Exactly. I can't think of a sport I have played that has not had one of those nuggety, unglamorous, usually defenders, who just quietly go about doing there job each week. They never get the accolades and recognition they deserve, but those on the team always know how important they are. This goes for hockey, basketball or any team ssport like you said.
And you soon notice as a teammate when they are not there.

[Darealrath]

Whoever fails to understand what Slatts brings to our side has never played footy, or a team sport for that matter.

:thumbsu:

Great to see him doing well like last night, now that our midfield actually put some pressure on.

[kelvin_sheedy]

He needs to improve another few % to get us out of the rut of middle of the road into premiership contender.

He's doing enough to hold his spot and at 23 and 70 games he should be entering the prime of his career.

I can see him becoming a real leader next year and form the backbone of a great defence the next 7 or 8 years.

[Tambu]

He's the kind of player some people won't realise how important he is until he's out of the side.

[Strike Swiftly]

He had an awesome game yesterday. Milne kicked a couple, but really had very little impact on the game. Why is Hank copping so much flack? I can think of a few players worthy of a smack from yesterday, one being McPhee. Continually made blunders. Back on topic, Slatts is a required player.

[Knight Ryders]

He's the kind of player some people won't realise how important he is until he's out of the side.

:thumbsu:

I have an idea - why don't we play all the glamorous nice looking players that rack up cheap possies and look after numero uno first. Hey even better, why not just barrack for Port Power!

[donsman4eva]

They are all Full Backs, I suggest you choose some more reasonable comparisons if you are going to mount an intelliget argument.

You said defenders. I gave you defenders. What does it matter if they are KPP or not anyway? They are defenders. They defend. End of story.

And I suggest you may want to spell intelligent correctly if you are going to accuse me of not giving an intelligent argument :rolleyes:

[stay true]

Definitely unfairly maligned.

I don't agree with the few people that have said Houli/Atkinson could do his role better with more pace and skills. Those 2 aren't shut down defenders and it's not about how many disposals they have - it's about how the limit their direct opponents impact.

2 words. Team balance.

[bombre-boy]

Slatts was solid yesterday.
Did what he was supposed to do and does so most weeks.
As has been previously stated, Houli and Atkinson could not do the same job as slatts.

[BrunoV]

I would like to reiterate that I appreciate Slattery's heart. It is his heart and willingness to put himself on the line that would place him in a B & F. That does not mean that he is the best long term option in the position. If you had a taller, faster and more skilled Henry Slattery would you not select him each week? We need to find a replacement that suits the modern game.

It is obvious that Houli will not stop better than Slattery at this stage of his career. The OP states the words 'taught to a player like Houli'. It is clearly implied that such a move would be a project with a further implication that we would take a step backwards to go forwards in that position. Houli's name shouldn't have been mentioned any further in the thread because as an individual he is irrelevant. Myers, Slattery, T and Hocking could have been named but I chose not to because it has been Houli that has been tried in the position.

Slattery is unique because, off the top of my head, I cannot think of one other small defender that is not expected to provide drive going forward. He plays like a Presti, Glass or Hudgton yet he is not playing on key forwards.

To those who state that his mistakes are amplified because he plays back, I aplaud you on the obvious. The exact opposite logic applies and a player should not be afforded the lenience that Slattery benefits from just because he is down back and under pressure. Is it not his role to be there in the critical situations and be defensive?

Finally, I specifically said that this was not a response to last nights game. The straw that broke the camels back was Brisbane and the comical extent of the funbling and decision making.

It is all well and good to be defensive (and overtly aggressive as some of you are) but you highlight your own stupidity by weighing in on these debates without reading or acknowledging the OP. I am not opposed to be proven wrong. There are some good points amongs the vitriol and other garbage mainly posted.

[Kong]

Whoever fails to understand what Slatts brings to our side has never played footy, or a team sport for that matter.Hear hear.

[Kong]

[....]

Motlop 4 goals - Slatts shut-down Motlop when on him; Motlop kicked a few when Slatts was on Ebert
Peake 2 goals -
Wiggins 2 goals - Myers
Morton 3 goals - Pears
LeCras 3 goals - Played on a wing
Johnson 6 goals - Hocking/Slatts
Knights 5 goals -
Betts 3 goals
Welsh 3 goals - As in WB's Welsh? Since when was he a small forward?
Milne 3 goals

[SirJimi05]

Like I said, his turnovers are not refelcted in stats.

They are handballs to players under pressure, refusing to kick the ball even though he should and other poor decisions.

It's called following team instructions. They have a game plan and are told to implement it. It is a risky gameplan and players are often put under pressure in the back half and through the middle as a result of this. Are you trying to tell me that Slattery is the only one that does this?

Question - why on earth would Slatts refrain from kicking considering he has shown himself to be one of the more reliable kicks in the team this season? How many times does he miss a target by foot? Please give an honest answer. I was a massive critic of his, especially his decision making, kicking skills and tackling but he has improved rapidly in all 3 areas. He is now a very sound kick, gives away far less frees from poor tackling technique and his decision making has improved.

In regards to his decision making, so many people are blinded and have no real idea about football. A perfect example was the last game against Richmond. Slattery was abused by some people on the gameday thread for his apparant turnover. One of them was an incident near the boundary line where he nailed a handball to a team mate but it went at his feet and ended up going out of bounds in Richmonds forward line. What the idiots couldn't see is that Slattery did this deliberatley and it was actually very good decision making and smart play. He saw a Richmond player coming from behind and he knew that his team mate wouyld get tackled if he did indeed hit him on the chest so he deliberatley handballed low and hard at his feet so that the ball would go out of play.

I can almost guarantee you that Slattery will be part of our next premiership campaign. He is an integeral part of the team and he will help out Pears and Hurley moving forward.

I see that you backed down on your OP somewhat so maybe you realise how wrong you are? You went from saying he simply cannot play football to saying that you just think he will not be part of the best team moving forward. Either way you are wrong.

[Nicko_]

Whoever fails to understand what Slatts brings to our side has never played footy, or a team sport for that matter.

Or simply never played as a defender.

[HighettBomber]

Fact is Houli is not a better small defender than Slattery. In their only like-for-like match up both had one goal kicked on them, yet you have tried to manipulate the statistics to suit your own argument.

Not once has Houli given an example of where he is willing to go back with the flight of the ball. Let's also ensure we don't discount the number of other leads Slattery chops off.

Boo-hoo he turned it over once or twice, he saved plenty.

No. Your opinion is that he is better, my opiniuon is that he is not. Both have weaknesses and strengths, just Houli has less weaknesses and more strengths. Hank took a great mark in front of Reiwoldt, I've never said he is lacking in courage, he's also a great tackler but his inability to help us clear thre ball from the backline and his insistance on stopping, propping and kicking 15 metres backwards or handballing to someone under pressure are major negatives, especially as we rely on quick ball movement.

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why an y of the players listed are not better options as small defenders than Hank.

[BrunoV]

It's called following team instructions. They have a game plan and are told to implement it. It is a risky gameplan and players are often put under pressure in the back half and through the middle as a result of this. Are you trying to tell me that Slattery is the only one that does this?

Yep it is called following team instructions, problem is that he musn't understand them. At no point is there a suggestion that giving the ball to someone underpressure as a better option than kicking the ball. If his is the case then it is an unrealistic extreme and will be done away with as our team matures.

Question - why on earth would Slatts refrain from kicking considering he has shown himself to be one of the more reliable kicks in the team this season? How many times does he miss a target by foot? Please give an honest answer.

I don't know why he doesn't kick more often. His kicking isn't awful, it gets the job done. There was even a passage of play on the weekend that worked well.

Again, his turn overs are fumbles and handballs that are not picked up in stats. I wanted to post after the Brisbane game as it epitomises what I am talking about.

See argument about being the only shut down small defender going around.


I see that you backed down on your OP somewhat so maybe you realise how wrong you are? You went from saying he simply cannot play football to saying that you just think he will not be part of the best team moving forward. Either way you are wrong.

Thats is not the case at all. He cannot play football, he is a negator. When I used the term 'play' I am talking about having an (for lack of a better word) attacking game. There are structural contributions that I do not rate as being important as the general feeling around here, but if everyone sees it, then perhaps I need to re-assess my views on these strutural contributions. I have and still don't think he should maintain a spot in the side if a Houli, Remiers or Hocking developed in the position.

I think some of you cannot remove yourself from the debate enough to see the fallcy in just accepting a purely negating small back with his penchant for poor decision making and fumbling. When the Slattery folowers present the small forward stats it is like they expect to have 5 and 6 goals kicked every week when often the job of a small forward is to make good on the handful of opportunities that he gets in a game. A small forward who kicks two to three goals a week for his career is virtually achampion. Maybe it is you who doesn't understand football?

[Mr Mosquito]

No one else in our team can do what Slattery does as well as he does it. Noobs like the OP should have a think and consider why slattery is never dropped from our team despite his minimal primary involvement each week? His actual involvement in the play is small, however his stopping roles are necessary cogs in a winning team, and it is a player like Slats that will remain our team for several years to come

[Kong]

I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me why an y of the players listed are not better options as small defenders than Hank.OK we'll go with Houli, considering he seems to be the favourite replacement.

The coaching staff are open in their reasons for dropping Bachar to the VFL: he still has old habits of 'chasing a kick'; that is, trying to get his numbers up for the sake of personal glory. Because of this, he neglects his defensive side, and will often not stay with his opponent.

That right there is a painfully obvious summary of why Bachar is nowhere near as capable as Slattery to play the small defenders role.

Yes, he played well on Milne and Nahas, but Slattery has beaten Ebert, Hooper, Betts, Campbell, Schneider etc.

The fact is, Houli has shown he cannot conistently contain his direct (small) opponent to the same level that Slattery can.

[HighettBomber]

OK we'll go with Houli, considering he seems to be the favourite replacement.

The coaching staff are open in their reasons for dropping Bachar to the VFL: he still has old habits of 'chasing a kick'; that is, trying to get his numbers up for the sake of personal glory. Because of this, he neglects his defensive side, and will often not stay with his opponent.

That right there is a painfully obvious summary of why Bachar is nowhere near as capable as Slattery to play the small defenders role.

Yes, he played well on Milne and Nahas, but Slattery has beaten Ebert, Hooper, Betts, Campbell, Schneider etc.

The fact is, Houli has shown he cannot conistently contain his direct (small) opponent to the same level that Slattery can.

For a start, I'm not the one that keeps bringing up Houli, my preference is for McVeigh to play that role, but i do think we have multiple options that are better than Hank, including Houli. I understand that the coaching staff have had a bit to say about Houli's defensive side, he also makes some dumb decisions at times, but he also does some very good things and he gets plenty of the ball, all up I think he is a better option. Is there any evidence of Houli not being able to contain an apponent, further is there any evidence of Hank doing anything except (perhaps) containing an apponent, every other player mentioned is capable of being offensive as well.

[BrunoV]

Agreed. McVeigh was excellent down back, it was down back that he first announced himself as a genuinely good AFL player. He is strong overhead, makes good decisions (was a good onfield leader - he needs his confidence back), is a great kick and has enough pace.

The midfield can now cover the move of McVeigh back and I would love to see it happen. McVeigh being the old head along side Feltcher teaching the likes of Houli, Myers or Tyson Slattery is a much more enciting prospect than H Slattery being there.

[Longy413]

Just watched the game again.

Milne goal one - Kicked after Dempsey played on to himself from a kickin, ran into trouble, handballed Prismall, Prismall tackled by Milne and Milne kicked the goal. Slattery at the time playing on Schnieder.

Milne goal two - Prismall turns the ball over to his opponent Ball. Slattery required to leave his man (Milne) to run at Ball who would have otherwise kicked at an open goal. Ball handballs over the top to Milne who kicks a goal.

Milne goal three - Slattery right with Milne and would have tackled him the moment he took possession of the ball had it not been for a Schnieder bump.


Given Slattery was not directly responsible for allowing Milne to kick any of his three goals and the only time he was beaten in a contest by Milne, Slattery was out numbers 2-1, added to the fact that Slattery directly contributed to stopping several St Kilda forward movements, I'm not sure why we are even having this discussion.

Slattery was named in the best on our own website and all three commentators (Hird, Taylor, Healy) made mention at different times throughout the match how Slattery was one of the better players on the ground.

[Andre 2000]

Just watched the game again.

Milne goal one - Kicked after Dempsey played on to himself from a kickin, ran into trouble, handballed Prismall, Prismall tackled by Milne and Milne kicked the goal. Slattery at the time playing on Schnieder.

Milne goal two - Prismall turns the ball over to his opponent Ball. Slattery required to leave his man (Milne) to run at Ball who would have otherwise kicked at an open goal. Ball handballs over the top to Milne who kicks a goal.

Milne goal three - Slattery right with Milne and would have tackled him the moment he took possession of the ball had it not been for a Schnieder bump.


Given Slattery was not directly responsible for allowing Milne to kick any of his three goals and the only time he was beaten in a contest by Milne, Slattery was out numbers 2-1, added to the fact that Slattery directly contributed to stopping several St Kilda forward movements, I'm not sure why we are even having this discussion.

Slattery was named in the best on our own website and all three commentators (Hird, Taylor, Healy) made mention at different times throughout the match how Slattery was one of the better players on the ground.

Check mate.

[Ben the Gooner]

Thats is not the case at all. He cannot play football, he is a negator. When I used the term 'play' I am talking about having an (for lack of a better word) attacking game.

Simon Prestigiacomo cannot "play" football.
Darren Glass cannot "play" football.
Mal Michael could not "play" football.

Three of the greatest defenders of the modern era, with 4 premierships between them, yet they couldn't "play" football.

Incidentally, given your definition of "playing" football here, your Stanton bashing is now redundant, because "playing" football only involves going forward.

[SDR223]

Slattery was named in the best on our own website and all three commentators (Hird, Taylor, Healy) made mention at different times throughout the match how Slattery was one of the better players on the ground.

Great point. We're just lucky that the people choosing our team know more about football than these negative posters.

The fact is that Slattery is critical to our defensive structure and when available is an automatic selection.

[Kong]

[...]I wouldn't have a problem with McVeigh moving back.

As for Houli/Slattery, I'd much rather have a guy who stops his opponent; chops off the delivery to the key forwards; contributes countless 1%ers and generally helps out other defenders, than a guy who may or may not decide to stay on his opponent, but will rack up 20+ cheap possessions along the way.

This thread is doing my head in, but I guess it's not a bad problem to have.

[HighettBomber]

I wouldn't have a problem with McVeigh moving back.

As for Houli/Slattery, I'd much rather have a guy who stops his opponent; chops off the delivery to the key forwards; contributes countless 1%ers and generally helps out other defenders, than a guy who may or may not decide to stay on his opponent, but will rack up 20+ cheap possessions along the way.

This thread is doing my head in, but I guess it's not a bad problem to have.

The problem is that Hank rarely chops off delivery to key forwards, one of the reasons for his extremely low possession count. He doesn't read the play very well. I'm happy for Houli not to play there, although i think he has done a good job in the BP when he has played there, the point is we have a lot of other options as well.

I wish I was wrong about poor old Hank, but I have seen him play live numerous times this year and last. He has certainly improved and is not the total embarrasment he has been in the past, but he is mediocre at best with very little visible scope to rise above this level. Mediocrity, despite his great attitude and endeavour, is just not good enough.

The other reason for my insistance on this thread is that it irritates me that players like Hocking and NLM are continually bagged when they frequently play very well, but Hank seems to get away with relatively little criticism despite numerous very poor games. Certainly nothing like what Dyson (who i have always liked) endured until ANZAC Day.

[Kong]

The other reason for my insistance on this thread is that it irritates me that players like Hocking and NLM are continually bagged when they frequently play very well, but Hank seems to get away with relatively little criticism despite numerous very poor games. Certainly nothing like what Dyson (who i have always liked) endured until ANZAC Day.See I think he cops more criticism than he deserves. It's definitely not as bad as in previous years, but it seems every second poster on the Essendon board wants him an 'out' each week, even if he did keep Le Cras to one goal.

I agree that Hocking has hardly put a put wrong this year though, and seems to be underrated by many on this board.

[Longy413]

The problem is that Hank rarely chops off delivery to key forwards, one of the reasons for his extremely low possession count.

Stop looking at the stats.

If he chops off a lead, makes a spoil or creates a 2 on 1 in a marking contest, he doesn't get a stat for that.

Mediocrity, despite his great attitude and endeavour, is just not good enough.

In 2000 we didn't have that many superstars, but we had 22 blokes that did their job every week.

Slattery does his job every week, he beats his opponent most weeks. That's not mediocrity, that's consistently performing to the level that is required of you.

[Kong]

Stop looking at the stats.

If he chops off a lead, makes a spoil or creates a 2 on 1 in a marking contest, he doesn't get a stat for that.



In 2000 we didn't have that many superstars, but we had 22 blokes that did their job every week.

Slattery does his job every week, he beats his opponent most weeks. That's not mediocrity, that's consistently performing to the level that is required of you.Well said. :thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:

[james_omahoney]

I have a feeling Slats is about to add a lot more kick-interception work to his game. Watch how the baggers jump on when he does.

[stay true]

Stop looking at the stats.

If he chops off a lead, makes a spoil or creates a 2 on 1 in a marking contest, he doesn't get a stat for that.



In 2000 we didn't have that many superstars, but we had 22 blokes that did their job every week.

Slattery does his job every week, he beats his opponent most weeks. That's not mediocrity, that's consistently performing to the level that is required of you.
As accurate as this post is, I'm afraid the guys suffering stats abuse still won't realise why he is valuable.

Well said though.

[ant555]

He makes one mistake a week that stands out and we end up with threads like this.

He was brilliant last night, let's not forget that he doesn't just get the oppositions most dangerous small each week but he's expected to chop off leads from power forwards.

Week after week he puts himself in a position to get smashed and keeps going back for more. A couple of his marks last night set the agenda for the night.

Yep, he makes mistakes. So does Fletcher, so does Watson...

Wouldn't be at all surprised if he finished 5-8 in the B&F.

Totally agree. Early on in his career i was a bit annoyed with the stupid free kicks he used to give away but he currently is doing a great job and makes less errors than most on the park.

[cheppe89]

hopefully gone bye next year.......95% of the time when he gets possession, either goes backwards or sideways by foot!!
cant penetrate the lines at all........doesnt read the play that well, gives away plenty of free kicks!!
real class small forward makes im look stupid (steve johnson)...

[SirJimi05]

hopefully gone bye next year.......95% of the time when he gets possession, either goes backwards or sideways by foot!!
cant penetrate the lines at all........doesnt read the play that well, gives away plenty of free kicks!!
real class small forward makes im look stupid (steve johnson)...

You said it.

This season he has given away 14 free kicks in 20 games (0.8 per game) which is quite good considering defenders only need to breath on their opponent these days in order to give away a free.

Please explain what you mean when you say he gives away plenty of free kicks.

[rickydysonforbl]

You said it.

defenders only need to breath on their opponent these days in order to give away a free

this would require Henry being within 5m of his opponent so no dice.

[cheppe89]

yeh yeh ur right (its called generalising champ).......too be studying players free kick counts over the year, you obviously have a very eventful life.........so ill let you have it......i didnt realise you were considered a good player though, if you only averaged 0.8 free kicks a game (you probz know the exact number, but kepler bradley would have been close too that yeah) how good was he aye ;-)
point is henry slattery with the ball is so useless xox

[Big Blow Hard]

yeh yeh ur right (its called generalising champ).......too be studying players free kick counts over the year, you obviously have a very eventful life.........so ill let you have it......i didnt realise you were considered a good player though, if you only averaged 0.8 free kicks a game (you probz know the exact number, but kepler bradley would have been close too that yeah) how good was he aye ;-)
point is henry slattery with the ball is so useless xox

There is nothing wrong with backing an argument up with a bit of evidence. Perhaps if you had a bit of fact behind your opinion, instead of as you admitted "generalising", then you wouldn't be the one looking like a goose. Maybe next time, elaborate on some instances, which according to you are plentiful, where Slattery's foot skills have gotten us into trouble.
By generalising, (as you have done yet again with the ridiculous Bradley comparison) you just come off looking stupid, sorry, I am with SirJimi and the rest of the Slattery defenders on this one.

[SDR223]

yeh yeh ur right (its called generalising champ).......too be studying players free kick counts over the year, you obviously have a very eventful life.........so ill let you have it......i didnt realise you were considered a good player though, if you only averaged 0.8 free kicks a game (you probz know the exact number, but kepler bradley would have been close too that yeah) how good was he aye ;-)
point is henry slattery with the ball is so useless xox

Kepler Bradley was drafted as a key position player so how can you compare him to Slattery. Most of Keplers problems were that he didn;t impose himself on enough contests and his decision making when he got it. I don;t think it had much to do with the free kicks he gave away.

Slattery's role is one of the most difficult to play and his effort and hardness should never be questioned. He constantly put's his head over the ball and win's alot of the hard ball. The fact that he occasionally butchers his kicks is usually the result of the huge amount of pressure he is under. As stated by others - he has improved significantly this year and at only 23 years of age I believe he will continue to do so.

[kelvin_sheedy]

He's made some critical errors in the past 2 games which some can't seem to forgive him for and I can see the frustration in a lot of posts.

Against Brisbane in a critical part of the game he dropped a relatively easy mark that should have killed the situation but he scrambled it out for a throw in.

Against the Saints in the dying stages he got caught by Montagna for the last goal but the reason he got caught was 60 seconds prior to that he had his kick smothered when he should have done better.

Those mistakes are the difference between top 4 sides and where we are currently.

[Valve Bounce]

He's made some critical errors in the past 2 games which some can't seem to forgive him for and I can see the frustration in a lot of posts.

Against Brisbane in a critical part of the game he dropped a relatively easy mark that should have killed the situation but he scrambled it out for a throw in.

Against the Saints in the dying stages he got caught by Montagna for the last goal but the reason he got caught was 60 seconds prior to that he had his kick smothered when he should have done better.

Those mistakes are the difference between top 4 sides and where we are currently.

I have to admit that those two mistakes are very clear in my mind. That last one, in particular, he could have kicked it towards the left back flank where there was a player well in the clear, and that would have iced the game. Instead he made a stumbling turn towards the right back flank and got caught.

Having said that, I felt that Essendon played the ball backwards in that last move far too quickly instead of kicking to each other and then let the clock wind down. The ball reached the backline far, far too fast, ............

But in the Euphoria of that nanosecond after Riewoldt's boot meeting the ball, and the subsequent roar and I don't know how many renditions of The Song, his mistakes are forgotten.


I do think he needs a lot more coaching on these little things so that they are not repeated. But they guy does play with his heart, and is important in what he is told to do, so I wouldn't get rid of him.

[TeamHurley]

Just watched the game again.

Milne goal one - Kicked after Dempsey played on to himself from a kickin, ran into trouble, handballed Prismall, Prismall tackled by Milne and Milne kicked the goal. Slattery at the time playing on Schnieder.

Milne goal two - Prismall turns the ball over to his opponent Ball. Slattery required to leave his man (Milne) to run at Ball who would have otherwise kicked at an open goal. Ball handballs over the top to Milne who kicks a goal.

Milne goal three - Slattery right with Milne and would have tackled him the moment he took possession of the ball had it not been for a Schnieder bump.


Given Slattery was not directly responsible for allowing Milne to kick any of his three goals and the only time he was beaten in a contest by Milne, Slattery was out numbers 2-1, added to the fact that Slattery directly contributed to stopping several St Kilda forward movements, I'm not sure why we are even having this discussion.

Slattery was named in the best on our own website and all three commentators (Hird, Taylor, Healy) made mention at different times throughout the match how Slattery was one of the better players on the ground.

Game Set and Match to Longy. Well said :thumbsu: