View Full Version : Some questions on 'that loss' in 2000
Ok, so apparanty teams need a loss like yours in 2000 & ours in 2009. I don't particularly buy into that theory, as long as you learn from every game. But I digress.
My question is, after the Bombers went down in 2000 to the Dogs, in hindsight now, what signs did you see after that game that they learnt from the loss, and it relieved pressure, etc etc. We have the roos and dees, games we should win - so how much we can take frm seeing those two games, I don't know. But I want to know is what to look for after this loss to prove that it was worth it. What did your players say in the media? Coaches? Did you notice a massive effort improvement in the next few weeks. Sheedy said himself that the loss in 2000 helped you win the flag, I am looking for someone to sell me that theory, for interests sake. I don't think were a monty for the flag by any means, but how is this loss going to make a difference?
FWIW we did not deserve to win he match yesterday. I'm very very hapy Riewoldt missed, because it makes it much better to learn from the cracks that appeared (clarke and blake etc) with the actual loss on the board. Maybe he even meant to miss :D
I note after the loss, you went on the beat the pies by a few goals (they weren't in the 8) then really flogged the roos, carlton and melbourne on your way to the flag.
Kaiser Powser
17 Aug 2009, 10:02
Ok, so apparanty teams need a loss like yours in 2000 & ours in 2009. I don't particularly buy into that theory, as long as you learn from every game. But I digress.
My question is, after the Bombers went down in 2000 to the Dogs, in hindsight now, what signs did you see after that game that they learnt from the loss, and it relieved pressure, etc etc. We have the roos and dees, games we should win - so how much we can take frm seeing those two games, I don't know. But I want to know is what to look for after this loss to prove that it was worth it. What did your players say in the media? Coaches? Did you notice a massive effort improvement in the next few weeks. Sheedy said himself that the loss in 2000 helped you win the flag, I am looking for someone to sell me that theory, for interests sake. I don't think were a monty for the flag by any means, but how is this loss going to make a difference?
FWIW we did not deserve to win he match yesterday. I'm very very hapy Riewoldt missed, because it makes it much better to learn from the cracks that appeared (clarke and blake etc) with the actual loss on the board. Maybe he even meant to miss :D
I note after the loss, you went on the beat the pies by a few goals (they weren't in the 8) then really flogged the roos, carlton and melbourne on your way to the flag.
Look at Geelong last year they had not lost for ages and when Hawthorn hit the lead they just didn't seem to know what to do.
Macca18
17 Aug 2009, 10:05
I was a distraught 14 year old after that loss to the Bulldogs - I had a massive sook because I knew we weren't going to lose another game for the rest of the year and it should of been a clean sweep, but after Grand Final day, in retrospect, it was probably the best thing that could of happened to us. I remember our form in the final H&A rounds was a little patchy but still good enough to win us the games, a lot like the Saints at the moment. But come Week 1 of the finals, it was all systems go. For some reason and it may have something to do with the general lack of success of the Saints over the years, I don't have that same confidence that they aren't going to stuff up again before the end of the season, and I just hope for their sake it isn't the Grand Final. Like Essendon at the time, they are deserved flag favourites but I think the heartbreak of the year before for us was the absolute driving force behind 2000 as we were the best side of 1999. The Saints finished 4th in 2008 and were pretty much embarrassed in both of their finals against the eventual Grand Finalists.
I don't believe all this talk from some Saints fans that they were 'very, very happy' that Riewoldt missed that goal and that he may of even deliberately missed. That's a bit of an insult to our performance yesterday, I reckon. I would of been spewing if our captain missed that goal to lead us to 20 straight victories.
Well, they got rolled in round 7 - so you're saying a loss later in the season is better?
Kaiser Powser
17 Aug 2009, 10:14
Well, they got rolled in round 7 - so you're saying a loss later in the season is better?
Certainly. Round seven is 18 weeks prior to the grand final, that is virtually a whole seasom.
As the poster before mentioned, Essendon had the heartbreak of 99 to spur them on, but it certainly didn't hurt to realise that they were vulnerable to defeat if the dropped their level of intensity.
The Saints will realise that their intensity was well down for most of yesterday, they should learn now that if they are off their game, they could lose to anyone. That is modern footy.
I'm happy he missed- we didn't deserve to win, simple. Outplayed all day, did not deserve 4 points. I just think that actually losing, means you can hone in on the problems because there is now the '1' in the loss colums. Get out of jail and it's hard to be completely honest with yourself and not get ahead. Bombers were great, we were not. Simple
See what you mean about 1999 - on the flip side I think 120 years of crap is a bit to spur them on. don't forget, it's effectively the same groun from 04 05 that was up there with the best team and got rolled in the finals. We have out motivation too.
I think he loss shows your real weaknesses and you can have a good look
That's you, Jason Blake lol
bipolarbeaR
17 Aug 2009, 10:29
The positive was you actually came back! Look at Geelong in the Grand Final, good signs!
Boiled Geezer
17 Aug 2009, 10:40
Look at the finals series we had after that loss, smashed everything that came in sight and took away one of the most deserved flags in football history.
Personally I don't think a loss is required as a professional team that is performing as high as we did and you are should be able to take home the goods, but the phsycolgical side of things cannot be undersold. This loss should harden all of your troops, they will train and play like men possessed from now until the last day in September.
The way Lyon coaches and the team review each other with their 'trademark', no player has is a certainty in the team, so they will all be doing their best to earn a spot in the side and keep it. If they do this, then I can only see your game getting to a higher level then it has reached so far this year.
To say I was extremely happy with our win is an understatement, but I still believe you are the best team going round and that as long as St Kilda don't become complacent and keep up the pressure game they have played all year, then they should take home the goods after flogging the filth on the last day in September. :p
The loss to the WBD + the previous Prelim loss to Carlton by 1 point meant we left nothing to chance.
Finals 2000
QF vs. Kangaroos: Win by 125 points (or something like that)
PF vs. Carlton: Win by 45 points
GF vs. Melbourne: Win by 60 points
Left absolutely NOTHING to chance. The Saints will need to find the same mentality, but trying to draw on several years of failure and some heartbreak (ie. vs port in that final in adelaide) isn't nearly as strong as losing to an epic rival by a 1 pt in a Prelim only 12 months earlier.
AJ_2000
17 Aug 2009, 12:52
The upside to the loss in 2000 was that it brought back to earth the team to refocus for the finals. I think from memory we didn't sing the song after the remaining games until we won the big one.
Collingwood tried the same tactic the next week and it took us till after halftime to shake them.
Having the flood unleashed on us a few weeks before the finals was much better then it happening in a knock out game and getting rolled.
Even though you don't need the loss, you need the loss to make sure everyone is back on the same page.
WindyHillWatcher
17 Aug 2009, 13:08
It was how 1999 ended that drove the Bombers of 2000 and I reckon the Bulldogs game was just unfortunate. 99 sucked, I sooked like a little b*tch after the prelim... lol. I think the big question for the Saints though, is how will Riewoldt go? I saw him giving the guys on the bench a spray early in the 4th quarter and seems to really take losses on his shoulders in the past... this is their most significant loss in recent times and it was a loss he could have changed... will be interesting to see how he reacts to this.
I think he will continue to lead and play like he always does. In the end, Roo misses a lot of shots. That was less of a choke, and more of a typical Roo kick, lol.
I'm happy that the fast breaking team beat us - that is the 1 game plan that can work against the zone if it's in place. Now we can see where it went wrong and how to block it.
Sure, 99 ws heartbreaking for you guys - but 04 05 and even 97 for poor Maxy will be spurring them on. they are a proud group, and are focused on 1 thing only.
i like the idea of not sining the song till (if) we win the big dance
Sure, 99 ws heartbreaking for you guys - but 04 05 and even 97 for poor Maxy will be spurring them on. they are a proud group, and are focused on 1 thing only.
Nah don't think so. Sure there's been some heartbreak for you guys over the years, but usually that motivation is used up at the first opportunity the following year. 97 won't spur maxy on anymore than it has in the previous few years, and if it does, it will only be in the grand final (still need motivation for QFs and PFs!).
Other losses since then I think may spurn the blood in individuals but not the team as a whole. Not that I'm trying to discredit what happened as not being heartbreaking to lose a final (any final) but the point is your team has changed a fair bit since then with guys like gwilt, gram, fisher??, dawson ... who i understand weren't around.
Essendon 2000 was almost identical to the Essendon 1999 ... so the whole team felt it. If you get my drift. There's only so long you can draw upon a past failure as motivation before it just dies and is forgotten.