View Full Version : The Primus Situation
On 3AW last night, talking about "the Primus situation", suggesting that the reason he didn't play much in the second half in Perth -- and the reason Port may be in serious trouble this year -- is that he can't adapt his style to the new rucking rules. He can't jump high enough, and his whole technique is built around the old rules, so essentially he's just illegal and not very useful now.
It sounds awful. Does anyone think there's anything in this? (I remember that there were similar questions over Primus after two regular games last year, and nothing much came of it.
The tribunal, the rules committee, the umpiring -- maybe the AFL DOES hate us.
I thought Primus was not just getting murdered in the middle but also the around the ground ruck duels. I have a feeling the new interpretations are playing on his mind and he was trying not to give too many free kicks away, whilst Gardiner grabbed, held and scragged Matty down.
That said I've never been Primus' biggest fan and hope to see Broges take the opportunity with the new interpretations.
Can't say I'm worried yet - from other games on the weekend, it looks like Primus is far from the only player having trouble with the new rule on taking possession from the ruck contest.
Looks like letting French go could misfire after these rule changes. He wasn't the best ruckman and he only got 6 hit-outs for Carlton on the weekend but at least he was tall. A big improvement in Lade is starting to become of great importance now. f course, something like this could be a blessing if Primus has to play a lot more at the goalfront because that strength in marking hasn't yet been umpired out of the game.
Ford Fairlane
2 Apr 2003, 12:20
I think it's a bit early to be hitting the panic button over Matty just yet. Remember he had a fairly limited preparation this season in terms of match play and didn't West Coast blow the game open after Matty came off the ground ... and mostly through Gardiner's palming to Cousins and clearing the ball from the centre square? Lade's form/confidence at the bounces is causing me much more concern than Primus's. It will be handy to have Brogan back, as he seems well suited to the new ruck interpretation (and to date he has shown himself to have the capacity to be way more effective around the ground than Barney was).
I disagree with Primus getting killed, or that the new rules causing him to give away frees. I cannot recall too many frees being given away during rucking contests.
He more than held his own on Saturday, but not only is he underdone, but the cohesion between our ruckmen and the midfielders is "underdone". That lack of cohesion is where we lost in the middle, not because of the new rules or Primus getting clobbered.
Where we got slaughtered with the frees was in general midfield play. Mostly when the spectators yelled "TOO HIGH", "IN THE BACK", "TOO LONG". Surprise surprise, those are the frees where home spectators are the loudest and most biased in. Not sure if it was all the umpires, but definitely sure that umpires should wear bloody ear-plugs. That was only the second time I have been really ****ed off at the umpires since we joined. The first being that memorable second half against the Roos all those years back. Useless twits.
When exactly did Matty come off the ground? In truth, West Coast had control for the full third quarter. The only reason they hadn't put the game away in the first 10 minutes was their shocking kicking, 0.5. For me the turning point was that Bishop kick from an OOF that went straight to Judd for an easy goal.
Originally posted by mic59
When exactly did Matty come off the ground? In truth, West Coast had control for the full third quarter. The only reason they hadn't put the game away in the first 10 minutes was their shocking kicking, 0.5. For me the turning point was that Bishop kick from an OOF that went straight to Judd for an easy goal.
Not sure how many times he came on or off during the game, but in that third quarter they did to us what we did to a lot of teams last year. Never quite realised how bad we made others feel. :cool:
No wonder there were so many happy people when we got knocked out of the finals.
A lot of people are saying Primus lost only because we are used to him dominating games, and he certainly didn't dominate in this game.
Ford Fairlane
2 Apr 2003, 12:43
Originally posted by mic59
When exactly did Matty come off the ground? In truth, West Coast had control for the full third quarter. The only reason they hadn't put the game away in the first 10 minutes was their shocking kicking, 0.5. For me the turning point was that Bishop kick from an OOF that went straight to Judd for an easy goal.
Glad to think I wasn't the only one who thought that about Bish's kick. Just seemed to open the floodgates. Matty could hardly be blamed then if WCE had control while points were being kicked - we simply weren't even getting to the ball then. But it became a bl00dy mess once they started kicking goals and then clearing the ball at will from the centre square. And Matty was off the ground for most if not all of that time. I think just too much is being made of his response to the ruck interpretation this early in the season. And of course football commentators need soemthing to talk about to fill in all the time they have during the week so these theories are going to abound. According to some reports he had a hip injury at the time he was off. According to others he now has a rib injury. Pass me the salt, chuck it over the shoulder, and get on with the next game. I still think it'll be at least 6 weeks before we can start to draw a line through Port's form.
Originally posted by Ford Fairlane
I still think it'll be at least 6 weeks before we can start to draw a line through Port's form.
100% agree with that statement.
Hopefully we will then carry our form and fitness into the finals, unlike last year, when most of us started getting a bit concerned with about five or six weeks to go.
I would start worrying if we're any less than 3-3 at Round 6. In that time we've got Carlton, Hawthorn and Richmond. And by the time we play Adelaide in round 5 I'd hope we would have most of our players back.
dreamkillers
2 Apr 2003, 13:02
Originally posted by Ford Fairlane
I still think it'll be at least 6 weeks before we can start to draw a line through Port's form.
Yep by which time we would have played
A - West Coast
H - Brisbane
H - Hawthorn
A - Carlton
H - Adelaide
H - Richmond
and should be 4 wins and 2 losses without any problems.
Our injury list is starting to look a lot healthier with only 3 very in-experienced player out for more than 1 more week.
Cain Ackland (osteitis pubis) – ongoing assessment
Wade Champion (modified program) – 3-4 weeks
Roger James (groin soreness) – test
Adam Kingsley (hamstring) – 1 week
Paul Koulouriotis (hamstring) – test
Jarrad Schofield (hamstring) – test
Darryl Wakelin (back from Rnd 1) – test
Damon White (ankle) – 3-4 weeks
Michael Wilson (hamstring) – test
The slow start could be a real blessing in disguise later in the year when it really counts.
dreamkillers
2 Apr 2003, 13:04
Originally posted by Sandola
On 3AW last night, talking about "the Primus situation", suggesting that the reason he didn't play much in the second half in Perth -- and the reason Port may be in serious trouble this year -- is that he can't adapt his style to the new rucking rules. He can't jump high enough, and his whole technique is built around the old rules, so essentially he's just illegal and not very useful now.
It sounds awful. Does anyone think there's anything in this? (I remember that there were similar questions over Primus after two regular games last year, and nothing much came of it.
The tribunal, the rules committee, the umpiring -- maybe the AFL DOES hate us.
I think the bigger concern with Primus was what injury he was carrying.......the new rules will not have much impact on him........just like the ruck changes they introduced last year.
Thanks to what Brisbane did in 2001, results in the early rounds aren't really a concern.
We have a team capable of going all the way, it's just a matter of putting it all together at the end of the year just like they did.
Ford Fairlane
2 Apr 2003, 13:10
Originally posted by dreamkillers
Yep by which time we would have played
A - West Coast
H - Brisbane
H - Hawthorn
A - Carlton
H - Adelaide
H - Richmond
and should be 4 wins and 2 losses without any problems.
Our injury list is starting to look a lot healthier with only 3 very in-experienced player out for more than 1 more week.
Cain Ackland (osteitis pubis) – ongoing assessment
Wade Champion (modified program) – 3-4 weeks
Roger James (groin soreness) – test
Adam Kingsley (hamstring) – 1 week
Paul Koulouriotis (hamstring) – test
Jarrad Schofield (hamstring) – test
Darryl Wakelin (back from Rnd 1) – test
Damon White (ankle) – 3-4 weeks
Michael Wilson (hamstring) – test
The slow start could be a real blessing in disguise later in the year when it really counts.
I think even a 3-3 count after 6 weeks would be a solid springboard to a good season.
I was really pleased to see a definite (and relatively short) timeframe for Damon White's return. That would see him back at North Adelaide by rd 5 and just maybe, with a bit of luck, pushing for league selection with the Power by mid season. Apparently Russell Ebert said on weekend radio that with just an ounce of luck Damon White would be playing AFL this season.
dreamkillers
2 Apr 2003, 13:18
Originally posted by Ford Fairlane
I think even a 3-3 count after 6 weeks would be a solid springboard to a good season..
I can see us not winning this week but I just don't see us losing to Hawthorn, Carlton or Richmond............which is the only way that would be possible.......:D
Originally posted by Ford Fairlane
I was really pleased to see a definite (and relatively short) timeframe for Damon White's return. That would see him back at North Adelaide by rd 5 and just maybe, with a bit of luck, pushing for league selection with the Power by mid season. Apparently Russell Ebert said on weekend radio that with just an ounce of luck Damon White would be playing AFL this season.
It would be great to see White in the side in the second half of the season to give us the 3rd key forward as well as giving us even more flexibility............
Ford Fairlane
2 Apr 2003, 13:26
Originally posted by dreamkillers
I can see us not winning this week but I just don't see us losing to Hawthorn, Carlton or Richmond............which is the only way that would be possible.......:D
of course ... what was I thinking? ;)
Even assuming the worst luck with umpires, injuries and suspensions, rememberthat in 1999 we were 4-6 after round 10 and made the 8. And our side is much superior to what it was then.
The ruck rule is more likely going to affect Darcy more than Primus. Thats all Darcy ever did last year...take the ball out of the ruck. Primus never takes the ball out of the ruck at centre bounces, and quite often taps the ball at throw ins/ball ups around the ground as well. I dont think Primus will be too badly affected. The only part that will affect Primus is that he usually takes a bloody long time to get rid of hte ball once he grabs it in the ruck. If he can quicken up his disposal out of the ruck then he wont be affected.
Its not altogether wishful thinking....but I reckon Primus had to be injured while resting on the bench after half time.
No coach would leave Lade in the ruck for as long as Chocco did only to see the game in the balance systematically wittled away if he had another Rucking option [Primus) :confused:
Would he?
Originally posted by dreamkillers
The slow start could be a real blessing in disguise later in the year when it really counts. Yup. Hope so! :D
I'm concerned about the club signing Primus to a lengthy contract extension before they could observe how he played within the new rules. Adapt or bust, obviously.
dreamkillers
2 Apr 2003, 22:08
Originally posted by Guey_34
I'm concerned about the club signing Primus to a lengthy contract extension before they could observe how he played within the new rules. Adapt or bust, obviously.
He won't have a problem.........he had an off day last Saturday and was obviously not 100%.......unfortunately last week the back up wasn't good enough but with Brogan back this week things will be better........
P0RT P0WER
3 Apr 2003, 01:14
Originally posted by PAfolwr
Thanks to what Brisbane did in 2001, results in the early rounds aren't really a concern.
We have a team capable of going all the way, it's just a matter of putting it all together at the end of the year just like they did.
I think our lead up has been similar too Brisbanes as well, people are saying we have missed the boat but we are just 2 years behind Brisbane.
Bris 98 - spoon 6-16 Port 00 14th 7-14-1
Bris 99 - Finals, 16-6 Port 01 Finals, 16-6
Bris 00 - Finals 14-8? Port 02 Finals 18-4
Bris 01 - Finals 17-5 FLAG Port 03 ???? ??? FLAG?
Bris 02 - Finals 17-5 FLAG Port 04 ???? ??? FLAG?
They say your time at the top only lasts 3 years but both sides have overachieved a year earlier, who thought that a Bris 99 of 16-6 or a Port 2001 of 16-6 would happen? It is incredible the similarities between both sides, I mean Port's push has started two years later but both sides have had near identical years since Bris of 99 and Port of 01, hopefully the similarities continue for 2 more years.
I hate Brisbane now, used to love them in the 90's but all those painful draws and single figured margins and Brisbane so far having a lot of say in our finals destiny etc. There has been no better head to head in the last 6 years than the Port v Brisbane duels, u name it, draws, thrillers, finals and drips.
well, matty is injured, which doesnt help.
Besides, word is Chocco has given matty the all clear to grab the ball out of the centre at a bounce, even if being tackled means holding the ball.
he doesnt want him to change his game plan. Anyway, most times matty clears the ball anyway, and doesnt get caught, or breaks the tackle if there is one.:)
Originally posted by chris17
well, matty is injured, which doesnt help.
Besides, word is Chocco has given matty the all clear to grab the ball out of the centre at a bounce, even if being tackled means holding the ball.
he doesnt want him to change his game plan. Anyway, most times matty clears the ball anyway, and doesnt get caught, or breaks the tackle if there is one.:)
Problem with that one is it appears the umpires are giving no leniency at all to the ruckman grabbing the ball. As we saw in Perth, even if it is batted out of the ruckman's hands it is a free to the opposition. Which would mean as soon as Matty gets the ball it is open slather.