View Full Version : Where to now for the Fitzroy Football Club?
Roylion
10 Feb 2001, 18:06
Where to now for the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd? The latest disappointing news is that apparently is the City of Yarra, in response to a Victorian State Government decision to cap the number of poker machines in the state has refused the Fitzroy Football Club’s application to manage pokies in their intended social club at Rising Sun Hotel. Rather than appeal the decision which could take two-three years to resolve, the FFC Ltd., has decided not to pursue the Rising Sun as an option for a social club. This is a bitter blow for the many people that support the Fitzroy Football Club.
An U/19 team which was intended to be run by the FFC Ltd., for the 2001 season has also not come to fruition at least for this year.
Apparently Fitzroy and Tasmania were talking about the possibility of aligning to place a team in the VFL. Despite being approached by Tasmania originally, the FFC board asked for the proposal in writing and received no further response. According to one Fitzroy director I know, the proposal had “cold water” (his words) poured over it, not by Tasmania, but by the VFL itself. Tasmania not wishing to jeopardise it’s entry into the VFL therefore dropped the proposal.
Preston and Fitzroy have also been talking, but while Preston are keen to have Fitzroy’s money and members (well over 1,000) they aren’t, according to my information, prepared to give enough guarantees about Fitzroy’s identity or corporate independence or enough representation on their board.
The question therefore is what should the FFC Ltd do in the future? On the face of it, it would seem that the board of FFC Ltd. as the last legally elected board should be the body that should manage the growing Victorian arm of the Brisbane Lions. However for various reasons this is very unlikely to occur. As it stands the Fitzroy ‘family’ remains divided. The VFL, who you would think stands most to gain from having at least a couple of thousand Fitzroy diehards attending it's fixtures on a regular basis appears to be deliberatly discouraging a Fitzroy presence and identity in its competition, which quite frankly I find very surprising.
In a way this division may spell the end of both the FFC Ltd. and also any aspirations that the Brisbane Lions have of building Victorian membership much beyond 3,000, even though it is obvious Brisbane’s supporter base in Victoria is much greater than 3,000. The board of the FFC Ltd. are confident that there is a great deal of latent support for ‘Fitzroy’ out there….. up to at least 60,000 Victorians they believe, but there is little for many of them to focus on without a fair-dinkum Fitzroy side, wearing the old guernsey etc. etc. in a senior Victorian or national side. It was hoped that Coburg-Fitzroy would fulfill this role, but this also fell through, for reasons totally beyond Fitzroy’s control.
FFC has three options open to it in the future in my view. It needs to justify its existence as a football club and run one-two-three sides in different competitions. Otherwise it will disappear completely due to lack of interest.
1. Pursue closer relations with the Brisbane Lions (reciprocal) and use those connections to lobby for a position in the VFL as a stand-alone team bearing the name 'Fitzroy', the colours and the emblem. This new club might have close ties with Brisbane in terms of sponsorship, membership etc and might also have FFC acting as the controller of the Victorian arm of the Brisbane Lions.
2. Continue to support the Fitzroy Reds and Fitzroy Juniors only from the Brunswick Street Ground and eventually establish an U/19 team to operate only in the northern suburbs of Melbourne.
3. Continue to seek a completely independent "alignment" with an existing VFL club, or as some continually hope for, a Melbourne based AFL club to get back into senior Victorian football.
Roylion, I've posted many a topic on this on a few other forums.
As far as I see it, unless the Brisbane Lions and FFC come to terms with each other (somewhat), and try to work together with common goals, then I see the future of the FFC and the Victorian support for the Brisbane Lions as being very short term.
Obviously, these common goals would be based around giving Victorian Lions supporters, and Fitzroy supporters, clubs that they can support. For instance, while the Brisbane Lions offer somewhat of a 'Fitzroy' presence in the AFL, it's hardly enough to keep some of us entertained for a full season. It's essential that clubs like the Reds, Juniors, and hopefully the U/19's, prosper. Even if at a local level, it is still giving Roys fans something to support - something close to their hearts.
The way I see it, for the Brisbane Lions that is, is that they'll either build a substantial support base out of Victoria over a number of years (by doing the 'right' things), or they'll eventually lose all interest from Victorian supporters altogether. Both of these scenarios might be relatively a few years away (perhaps 10 to 15 or so), however, the Brisbane Lions should start doing things now to ensure that a decent support base IS built in Victoria.
IMO, while you'll find a lot of people are passionate about the Brisbane Lions, you'll also find that they haven't forgotten about Fitzroy either. From people I've talked to at VFL, VAFA, and AFL games (including nights at the Manningham), there is generally a concensus that whether people support the Brisbane Lions or not, that they still want to support Fitzroy, or at least, what the club was about, in some way.
Sure, the Brisbane Lions offer some of that, but not all. They never will either - it's something that has to be accepted. However, this doesn't mean that Fitzroy can't be offered elsewhere, as a complementary team/club. Similarly, the Brisbane Lions only real chance of a support base in Victoria is amongst Fitzroy supporters.
Similarly, it's also worth noting that the supposed "anti-Brisbane" element, IMO, is often blown out of proportion. From my experiences, there seem to be a fair few Roys supporters, who aren't members of the Brisbane Lions, but do 'barrack' for the club. Perhaps a closer involvement with Fitzroy and the club's activities, is one way of appealing to these particular Fitzroy supporters.
IMO, if the Brisbane Lions are serious about prospering a support base out of Victoria (and a serious support base at that), then they need to be involved in the grass roots in Victoria.
"What has this got to do with Fitzroy?" I can hear people asking. Well, I believe, that without some form of co-operation, that neither the FFC or the Victorian arm of the Brisbane Lions will prosper.
The latest setback in regards to the Rising Sun Hotel, pretty much puts Fitzroy in a position where it will have to look elsewhere for any significant source of funding.
As far as I know, the Brisbane Lions give a small percentage of financing to the Lion Cubs team in the Qld state leauge. Perhaps the club could consider also giving a small amount of financing to the ventures of the FFC in Victoria. Perhaps it could be a small percentage of the Victorian membership profits (even $1 per membership would be great - especially when you consider we have around 3000 members).
A move such as this would have the effect of not only giving Fitzroy a life-line, but also being a good-will gesture towards the club and its supporters.
For this to happen though, there needs to be some sort of rift-healing. Fitzroy has to be able to offer the Brisbane Lions something for their returned support.
However, as I see it, the prosperity of Fitzroy at local and hopefully, eventually stand-alone VFL level, is the key to the Brisbane Lions having a substantially sized, long-term support base in Victoria.
Carn the Roys! Go Lions!
Short term support? Crap. My support wont wane now. I for one will fully be behind Brisbane for good. I'm sick of hearing about more support for the Fitzroy side of things down here in Melb. The merger is all said and done. While I'm Fitzroy through and through, I didn't support the two-bit alliance with Coburg, and I am sick of hearing about other possible alliances as well. I have many fellow former Fitzroy and now Brisbane supporters who feel the same way. Others don't. Thats life!
lioness
13 Feb 2001, 19:33
I agree with you Denno, everyone has kinda got their own feelings about it. For me, I am first and foremost a Brisbane Lions supporter (member) but I will always follow the Roys if there is a team to follow, in whatever capacity. But yeah, that's just me. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif It's really to be expected that every Fitzroy supporter will feel differently.
------------------
*the one and only lioness*
joshhem
13 Feb 2001, 19:44
I really can't be bothered reading all thaat now, so this is not an intelligent responce
Beausgirl43
13 Feb 2001, 20:12
God those guys can talk, hey Joshy Boy???
cheers...
Jethro Q Walrustitty
14 Feb 2001, 07:27
Olmy's a man on a mission!
InTheBack!
14 Feb 2001, 08:43
Olmy,
You idea has merit, that by providing a link to something they have lost, that one day links will be forged with the AFL team - the B Lions. A win win situation for old Roys & the B Lions.
The big question is would this mean an eventual widening of their loyalty to the B Lions, after some involvement in a more local league & team?
Or would they remain insular diehards like so many of the old Roys that post here. Not that I have a problem with that in itself, only it's not condusive to what you are proposing.
[This message has been edited by InTheBack! (edited 13 February 2001).]
Denno, thanks for the negative response. I'm sure you feel thoroughly justified in posting it - considering how good it must have made you feel at the time.
Whether or not you, yourself, feel as though you are a long term supporter, was not my point (which I thought was quite clear).
Considering the potential support that could, and has been generated for the Lions in Victoria (judging by crowds at games), I believe the figure of 3000 in regards to membership is not really that great a figure.
If your suggesting, Denno, that it's not worth trying to expand the Lions membership base in Victoria, then you're obviously lacking ambition.
Similarly, do you REALLY think a figure of 3000 members is sustainable in the long term? Stuff the fact that people like yourself and I will be members - that's not what I'm talking about.
What I'm talking about, is whether or not the Brisbane Lions have a long term presence in Victoria in terms of public support - not just a few die-hards wanting to hold onto the dream that the Brisbane Lions are a two-state team.
CARN THE ROYS!
Originally posted by InTheBack!:
Olmy,
You idea has merit, that by providing a link to something they have lost, that one day links will be forged with the AFL team - the B Lions. A win win situation for old Roys & the B Lions.
The big question is would this mean an eventual widening of their loyalty to the B Lions, after some involvement in a more local league & team?
Or would they remain insular diehards like so many of the old Roys that post here. Not that I have a problem with that in itself, only it's not condusive to what you are proposing.
[This message has been edited by InTheBack! (edited 13 February 2001).]
InTheBack! - you raise some good points. I certainly don't think that 'every' Roy supporter will turn to the B.Lions. However, I do think that if the two entities were to have a greater involvement with each other (in some way), that both entities would benefit.
Obviously, the extent to which they become involved with each other is the sticking point. Too much involvement by either party could be seen by its supporters as selling out. Similarly, there is always a risk involved in these things. What if something goes wrong?
I guess it's something that we can only speculate about at this stage anyway.
Originally posted by Olmy:
Denno, thanks for the negative response. I'm sure you feel thoroughly justified in posting it - considering how good it must have made you feel at the time.
Always the hint of sarcasm, isn't there? Just because I didn't necessarily agree with some of the things you said. I'm merely getting across my (and many others) point of view. Thats the whole point of these boards!
If your suggesting, Denno, that it's not worth trying to expand the Lions membership base in Victoria, then you're obviously lacking ambition.[/QUOTE]
Who said that? I'd love to see Brisbane's membership base increase.
Similarly, do you REALLY think a figure of 3000 members is sustainable in the long term? Stuff the fact that people like yourself and I will be members - that's not what I'm talking about.
What I'm talking about, is whether or not the Brisbane Lions have a long term presence in Victoria in terms of public support - not just a few die-hards wanting to hold onto the dream that the Brisbane Lions are a two-state team.
CARN THE ROYS! [/QUOTE]
Of course I think that at LEAST 3000 members is sustainable. A few real good years (with possibly a Premiership thrown in!) will certainly help. We've seen the support grow between 98 & 99 (mainly due to on-field success), and possibly even more in 2000. A good start to 2001 will go even further!
Denno, what's wrong with being sarcastic? I usually use it when provoked by responses including words such as 'crap', which have been directed at my points of view.
The theory of on-field success only goes so far. Anyway, what if they fall in a heap? They did in 1998 - and they had a bloody good list then too.
People need to be convinced of the club, not just the team aspect. I reckon a bit more emphasis on club activities (ie: family days, social events, big-screen nights, etc. etc.), along with continued efforts to respect the memory of Fitzroy (ie: the proposed Fitzroy Team of the Century is a GREAT idea!), I reckon that people WILL be convinced by the club, rather than just the team. After all, the club is going to be around a lot longer than just the current crop of players.
For a long-term support base to be viable in Victoria, the club needs to offer something of itself that NEW (or young) supporters will find attractive. The club needs to offer itself to supporters beyond just what you see on the TV. Kids want to go out and experience football. Not just sit at home in front of the box - hell, they could go and support Essendon instead. This is why, at least I believe, the club should offer itself to supporters in a way that makes them feel a part of the club. It's the key to long term.
Sure, all those who support the team now, they'll (we'll) support the club till the end. But I believe that the Brisbane Lions would benefit further by having a long term Victorian support base, rather than just a 15 to 20 year one.
I agree about the club activites and stuff, Olmy.
Last year, when after-match functions and the like were held in a few different places, it took my memory back to 97-98, when there was no permanent social club. I was rather annoyed at the decisions to go elsewhere - it defeats the whole purpose of a social club. To be honest, I still think the open day should be held at Brunswick St., however.
We are always going to have fairweather supporters - it is a fact of life, but with a stable off-field environment, it wont be as essential to be top 4 each year to hold our supporters.
By the way, I do support the Fitzroy Team of the Century as well!
That's it Denno, mate! Now ya getting into the spirit. That's it. We'll take over the club and run it ourselves!!!!!! I'l put you in charge of buying beer and pies for the social club. It's an important job you know. Not just any buffoon (Maverick) could do it.
Once we've had the Fitzroy team of the Century, we'll have to start having one for each decade too. We'll head the selection committee. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/wink.gif
Nope - bad choice - the beer would never make it over to the proper side of the bar!
one simple act by the bears would finally convert thousands of old Roys supporters who are currently in football limbo - wear the old Fitzroy strip when playing in Melbourne. I'm sure it would instantly attract huge support, it might even entice me to follow brisbane, something I vowed I would never do.
Originally posted by buassa:
one simple act by the bears would finally convert thousands of old Roys supporters who are currently in football limbo - wear the old Fitzroy strip when playing in Melbourne. I'm sure it would instantly attract huge support, it might even entice me to follow brisbane, something I vowed I would never do.
Well if you can find the Bears - go ask em if they will wear the strip in Melbourne.
To my knowledge - the Bears disappeared in 1996 - but hey if you want them to wear the strip - and you can find em to ask em - go right ahead!
Jethro Q Walrustitty
17 Feb 2001, 06:39
Originally posted by buassa:
one simple act by the bears would finally convert thousands of old Roys supporters who are currently in football limbo - wear the old Fitzroy strip when playing in Melbourne. I'm sure it would instantly attract huge support, it might even entice me to follow brisbane, something I vowed I would never do.
Only a superficial supporter would start following a team because of a token gesture like that.
We don't need your type. See ya.
While the idea of wearing a Roys jumper in Vic does sound enticing, I don't believe it should be done. Fitzroy is Fitzroy (still existing in it's own right to a certain extent), while the Brisbane Lions are the Brisbane Lions - a by product of the merger between the Bears and Fitzroy.
I wouldn't mind seeing the Roys (and Bears if you like), jumpers used on special occasions (ie: one off's).
However, I think it's important that the Brisbane Lions foster an identity of their own, that is fair to both Bears and Fitzroy. With this said, I think that in some ways, the club could do a few more things (the Fitzroy team of the century is a good start), to continue the Fitzroy tradition. I'm not bagging what they're doing now - but I wouldn't mind seeing them do a few things more.
With that said though, I certainly don't take the view that people who want things such as this (wearing the Roys jumper in Melb.) are superficial, or that "we don't want them at our club".
I'm all for accomodating as many people as possible. I want the Lions family to prosper in Victoria as well as Qld.
Go Lions!!!
However, I do believe the a small FFC (and a BB if you like) should be included on the jumper somewhere. Preferably, ala the Western Bulldog's 'FFC' on the back of their jumper.
Eric the Hysteric!
21 Feb 2001, 09:23
Olmy, unfortunately I doubt there is much chance of the Brisbane Lions and Fitzroy having a working relationship. Well, that's not going on any specific evidence - however, what can Fitzroy offer to Brisbane, besides goodwill, that Brisbane would even consider taking in exchange for the things that the Roys need?
If it were down to me, I'd love to see the Roys involved with the Brisbane Lions. I doubt it's going to happen though. Brisbane seem content on letting Fitzroy do their own thing (with the Reds, or whoever), and realistically, by themselves, the Roys don't have much of a chance of rejuvenating to any great extent (not unless an earnest supporter wins Tattslotto! Imagine that, eh!).
That brings us back to the point where we ask, "what can Fitzroy give Brisbane?". Is their goodwill going to be enough for Brisbane to help the Roys in regards to financing a Victorian revival? I doubt it. No matter how much goodwill the Roys give (and I don't think they'd consider it anyway), there will always be a vocal minority of Fitzroy supporters who will be against the Brisbane Lions, and will make that known in public.
As far as I can see, it's up to the Brisbane Lions themselves to try and enhance the status of their Victorian membership.
I also see it pretty much the same way for the Fitzroy Football Club. Although I'd love to see it happen, I doubt Brisbane give two hoots about what the Roys are doing - as long as it doesn't amount to something that might threaten their own legion of support culminating from the Fitzroy contingent.
Personally, as a Roys supporter (and I know you've agreed with this on the e-group), I am just as happy to see the Roys stick with the Reds, Juniors, and hopefully an U-19's side.
But . . . we can only hope that maybe the suggestion of a Brisbane Lions/Fitzroy FC union might still, one day, be possible. Perhaps you should run for the board, Olmy!
[This message has been edited by Eric the Hysteric! (edited 20 February 2001).]
Eric, firstly I agree, that on the surface of things, Fitzroy doesn't really have much to offer the Brisbane Lions. I also agree that they would be reluctant to consider doing something like this, because of fall-out amongst some of the supporters.
However, if the FFC want to have a shot at getting back into footy in a bigger way than what they currently are, then the only option is to look to Brisbane (ie: for some form of reconcilliation).
Fitzroy's goodwill to the Brisbane Lions, IMO, would make a difference in regards to the attitudes of supporters. After all, a lot of people won't accept the Brisbane Lions because they don't like the way in which the merger was handled (and I also agree with those sentiments). For instance, the fact that Fitzroy had no say in events, has put a lot of people off-side (to say the very least). If Fitzroy were to have some involvement now, this would help to allay those ill-feelings which were nurtured from the very start - when Fitzroy had no say in things.
Obviously, the hard part in all of this would be to convince both clubs that reconcilliation is worthwile.
However, Brisbane Lions' initiatives, such as the Fitzroy Team of the Century, in which Fitzroy have had an involvement, could be stepping stones to some greater form of unity between the two clubs.
Perhaps one thing that the Brisbane Lions could consider, is giving back the Fitzroy memorabilia that they gained through the merger. Although the merger deed entitles the Brisbane Lions to the Fitzroy memorabilia, common sense tells us all that those items really belong to Fitzroy, or at least, the Fitzroy supporters.
After all, what is it that the Brisbane Lions are trying to achieve by having this memorabilia? A token slap in the face to the FFC, or it's board? Well, maybe there is something in that - but don't you think that it's the Fitzroy supporters themselves who are hurting even more as a result of these actions?
Eric the Hysteric!
21 Feb 2001, 10:38
Originally posted by Olmy:
Perhaps one thing that the Brisbane Lions could consider, is giving back the Fitzroy memorabilia that they gained through the merger. Although the merger deed entitles the Brisbane Lions to the Fitzroy memorabilia, common sense tells us all that those items really belong to Fitzroy, or at least, the Fitzroy supporters.
After all, what is it that the Brisbane Lions are trying to achieve by having this memorabilia? A token slap in the face to the FFC, or it's board? Well, maybe there is something in that - but don't you think that it's the Fitzroy supporters themselves who are hurting even more as a result of these actions?
Yes, well said Olmy. I agree that although Brisbane might have legal entitlement to the Fitzroy memorabilia, it doesn't make sense storing it away in some section of the Gabba.
But where would you put it, if it were to come back down here? In the Manningham? If Fitzroy ever get their own social club, you could bet that they'd want to see it there, rather than in the Brisbane Lions one.
Any memorabilia is better than none, regardless of where it is, I say! Having not been to Brisbane, I can't comment on the extent of memorabilia that they even have. If the Brisbane Lions were to return the items that they do possess, then perhaps those members of the public who also possess items of Fitzroy memorabilia (ie: that originally belonged to the club http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/redface.gif ) would consider completing the collection!
[This message has been edited by Olmy (edited 20 February 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Olmy (edited 20 February 2001).]
Ultimately, the Roys and Brisbane Lions would have the Brunswick St. Oval redeveloped with new social facilities for both clubs, along with housing for all memorabilia! It'd be like a gigantic Fitzroy/Brisbane Lions paradigm . . . http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/wink.gif
[This message has been edited by Olmy (edited 20 February 2001).]