Bomber Man's open letters

[Bomber Man]

Dear Matt,

Thank-you for so many highlights over your fantastic career so far.

I'm sure I speak on behalf of many Essendon supporters when writing that it has been fantastic to have such a reliable focal point going forward for over 10 years, that we'll always remember having had the most dominant FF of the late 90's to mid 00's, and that the 5 x AA's and 3 x Coleman seasons you delivered are a great achievement for you, the club, and all Essendon supporters.

Which brings me to the second point in the opening line of this letter. So far.

Again, I know I speak on behalf of many Essendon supporters in writing that it will be bitterly disappointing if your career has ended. Your presence, leadership and skill is vital to our finals aspirations in 2010 and beyond, and I am certain the guidance and support you can give our emerging forwards/players in your twilight seasons will ensure they are fully equipped to deliver the next successful era for our beloved Bombers.

Matthew, I know you don't need me to tell you Essendon is a very proud club with a long and rich history, and an enormous supporter base. You have been an inspirational player and captain for your teammates, club and supporters across an incredible 15 seasons. Your achievements, status, and highlights reel easily stand on their merits amongst the greatest Essendon players of all time - your name belongs amongst them. I still believe you have more to offer, and I know many Essendon supporters who believe you are still a fervently required player.

Your last game in 2009 obviously included an incident that you, and we all, wish had happened differently. I think most reasonable AFL followers know the bump you landed on Sewell was not intended to connect as it did, nor cause the degree of damage it did. But that's football, and it's not typical of you as a player. I think it would be a sad end to your career for you and for us if your final match, after such a long and spectacular career, was stamped so vividly with that memory.

I sincerely hope you read this letter, and that it is backed with replies from Essendon supporters who also say how much they'd love to see you play on in 2010. Your career should end on an absolute high - with no negative angle on the match, and with at least one final goal to punctuate the prolific scoring you have provided our great club throughout your career - throwing up the grass at least one more time!

With great thanks and best wishes regardless of your career decision,

BM

[Bomber Man]

Dear Matthew,

Please read the attached letter to Matthew Lloyd.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15817667&postcount=1

I know you are eager to progress the development of our list, and to continue to forge the path to our next great team era, but please keep in mind there is more to a team and a club than the immediate on-field success and changes.

I am happy with the job you are doing developing the Dons, and am confident you will continue to improve our output. I would, however, love to see something a little more inspiring from you in the press regarding the careers of our champions and the value, respect and appreciation we all hold for them.

Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned.

Regards,

BM

[Shane Hird]

Bomberman, I disagree with your suggestion that Knights hasn't shown enough respect for the man when discussing the Lloydy situation.

Did you see him on One Week at a Time the other week? He nearly had tears in his eyes while talking about the respect he has for Lloyd and how much he is loved by every Essendon supporter.

In saying that, i believe Lloydy is finished. It had to happen one day and the time is now.

The fact that he's taking so long to decide says to me he's not 100% confident about his body ( he's mind is probably ok) going another punishing season of footy and knows he's lost the edge that is needed to play the game these days.

[FouRFooTGiaNT]

Neither knights or lloyd owe us as fans anything more than they have already given. What is said and what happens behind closed doors at bomberland is private and non of our business. Knights Job is to build the team to as succesful as he can get it, while also rebuilding it. If that means that players like lloyd and lucas are no more there, then that is fair enough. Both players have done more then most others, and I congratulate them on being true bomber champions. Fletcher will most likely be gone at the end of 2010, and so the cycle continues. Another champion to leave, but with that comes fresh young blood, hopefully the right ones to lead us to some very successful years ahead. I understand your passion, and I liked your letter to Lloyd and agree with it, but these things happen. I will miss Lloyd, Lucas, Lovett and whoever else decides to leave in the offseason as much as anyone else. Look at the hole in the salary cap now from just those three gone, eve after lloyd and lucas took paycuts etc years ago.. That there is potential money for the next big thing to walk thru the doors at windy hill...

[Smyth94]

Knights want's Lloyd to play on - FFS does he have to go on national television, get down on bended knee and beg him to stay??

Did you not read Lloyd's article a day or two ago??

[TeamHurley]

Dear Matthew,

Please read the attached letter to Matthew Lloyd.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15817667&postcount=1

I know you are eager to progress the development of our list, and to continue to forge the path to our next great team era, but please keep in mind there is more to a team and a club than the immediate on-field success and changes.

I am happy with the job you are doing developing the Dons, and am confident you will continue to improve our output. I would, however, love to see something a little more inspiring from you in the press regarding the careers of our champions and the value, respect and appreciation we all hold for them.

Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned.

Regards,

BM


Are you stupid? Lloyd was offered another year. Why the hell do you think it is knights forcing him to retire. Knights came out and said that he wants him to play on. Do a bit of research ffs.

[The Fact]

Are you stupid? Lloyd was offered another year. Why the hell do you think it is knights forcing him to retire. Knights came out and said that he wants him to play on. Do a bit of research ffs.
An open letter to Bomber Man,
Please stop posting rubbish and disrespecting people on the essendon forum, posters like Pazza, EFCboy, Ants and high ryders have a right to read posts wtih facts and correct information behind them, not your dribble that isn't based on anything more than what patrick smith bases his articles on.

The Fact

[kelvin_sheedy]

dude, his time was up. Get over it. He knew it and made the right decision. You need to take the emotion out of it.

Knights could have handled it better but maybe he's some sort of psychological genius who wanted Lloyd to retire without actually saying it.

[craffles]

dude, his time was up. Get over it. He knew it and made the right decision. You need to take the emotion out of it.

Knights could have handled it better but maybe he's some sort of psychological genius who wanted Lloyd to retire without actually saying it.



sad but true, our sport is much more professional these days and sentiment rarely plays a part now. Matty you were a star and are an absolute esssendon legend

[BrunoV]

Matthew Knights fan club member?

He offered Lloyd another years contract.

Lloyd is the one that wanted to play full forward.

Lloyd doesn't think he has anything left, hence his retirement.

Somehow this adds up to Knights being disrespectful and forcing players out of the club.

[Bomber Man]

dude, his time was up. Get over it. He knew it and made the right decision. You need to take the emotion out of it.

Knights could have handled it better but maybe he's some sort of psychological genius who wanted Lloyd to retire without actually saying it.
1. Don't call me dude.
2. Look at the time of the post.

[Spikey]

cool story bro

[table tennis]

Bomber man,

You must be one of 4 people who read the Australian.

You sound like Patrick Smith. Either you are, or your just a follower of this mans tripe.

Lloyd had been offered a contract for weeks. He decided he didnt want to go on. Nothing to do with Knights or the footy club.

In his presser this morning, he said that he had to go to the well this year to keep playing and desire just wasnt there.

So your letters should be deleted.

Start a new thread - along the lines of this:

Well played Matthew Lloyd & Essendon FC - because despite one pesky journo, and a couple of followers, this situation was handled very well by the individuals involved.

[Bomber Man]

Dear Matthew,

Please read the attached letter to Matthew Lloyd.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15817667&postcount=1

I know you are eager to progress the development of our list, and to continue to forge the path to our next great team era, but please keep in mind there is more to a team and a club than the immediate on-field success and changes.

I am happy with the job you are doing developing the Dons, and am confident you will continue to improve our output. I would, however, love to see something a little more inspiring from you in the press regarding the careers of our champions and the value, respect and appreciation we all hold for them.

Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned.

Regards,

BMI have no idea who Patrick Smith is.

See bold. Can you guys read?

TF - If you want to read fact and not opinion, go buy an encyclopedia. This is a discussion forum.

[Bomber Man]

Bomber man,

You must be one of 4 people who read the Australian.

You sound like Patrick Smith. Either you are, or your just a follower of this mans tripe.

Lloyd had been offered a contract for weeks. He decided he didnt want to go on. Nothing to do with Knights or the footy club.

In his presser this morning, he said that he had to go to the well this year to keep playing and desire just wasnt there.

So your letters should be deleted.

Start a new thread - along the lines of this:

Well played Matthew Lloyd & Essendon FC - because despite one pesky journo, and a couple of followers, this situation was handled very well by the individuals involved.
As per other thread, I have no idea who Patrick Smith is. Obviously you are one of the four - you've already read his article this morning!

My letter should be deleted..? How is Russia treating you? Did you take any note of the time it was written?

[kelvin_sheedy]

1. Don't call me dude.
2. Look at the time of the post.

Point still stands. His time was up and he knew it.

No need for guys like you to be moaning about it. If fact he should have been pushed harder out the door.

Sorry for calling you dude.. man.

[ant555]

I have no idea who Patrick Smith is.

See bold. Can you guys read?

TF - If you want to read fact and not opinion, go buy an encyclopedia. This is a discussion forum.

Yes it is a forum but having an opinion on something should at least contain something in it that has some version of the truth.

I told everyone last week what Lloyd was weighing up and part of that is he does not think he can physically prepare himself to play at AFL level.
He has played injued for the last two seasons and he can not go any further.
One day people will realise i don't just make random comments ;)

[Boucks09]

I can't help but feel that there is much more going on behind the scenes than is being let on.

The Lloyd and Lucas situations just don't feel right.

[ant555]

I can't help but feel that there is much more going on behind the scenes than is being let on.

The Lloyd and Lucas situations just don't feel right.

Trust me there is not.
Lucas was told there would be no spot in the side for him so he retired. No stuffing around. He was told at the start of the year that he would need a big season if he was to get another contract.

Lloyd made his decision because his body is stuffed. He has played injured the last two years. He was offered a contract and the only thing said was he did not command a spot in the best 22 if his form was not up to it. they wanted him to play on.

Anyone who says any different is simply reading something into it that is not a fact!
Knights has been very clear with the players and where he thinks they are at. there has been no beating around the bush and it has been Knights who has given the message to the players he thinks are not in his future plans unlike our prevous coach who had a pretty dubious record in that department.
I can tell you it is very clear. If you are not in Knights plan then you will not be offered a contract and you will be told up front. Bolts , JJ , Mal , Kepler , Johns, Lucas and Pev where all told well before the end of the season that they would no longer be required. It is just too bad our President leaked the JJ and Pev anouncements early in the season.

[table tennis]

As per other thread, I have no idea who Patrick Smith is. Obviously you are one of the four - you've already read his article this morning!

My letter should be deleted..? How is Russia treating you? Did you take any note of the time it was written?

I read the australian once. Whilst camping and shortage of toilet paper.

Unfortunatley Patrick smith is on SEN with KB in the mornings.

Russia is nice this time of year. Boris is drunk, and fans are rejoycing in the streets.

Your posts are so uninformed and wrong. This is a public forum for opinions. but don't imply facts if they are wrong, and not expect a backlash.

Pull your head in.

[bomba4eva]

I can't help but feel that there is much more going on behind the scenes than is being let on.

The Lloyd and Lucas situations just don't feel right.
Very true. Moreso the Lloyd situation. Why has he retired after he knew he was right to go for another season? Why has Knights beat around the bush when asked if he wants Lloyd to stay? So many questions to be asked.

Sad day for Essendon:(

[eastaugh36]

Very true. Moreso the Lloyd situation. Why has he retired after he knew he was right to go for another season? Why has Knights beat around the bush when asked if he wants Lloyd to stay? So many questions to be asked.

Sad day for Essendon:(

I'm with you. I reckon Lloyd would have played on, all things being the same as this season as far as his role goes. Why wasn't Knights up with Lloyd at the press conference?

[bomba4eva]

I'm with you. I reckon Lloyd would have played on, all things being the same as this season as far as his role goes. Why wasn't Knights up with Lloyd at the press conference?
This for mine is the clincher that their relationship was poor at best. Which coach doesn't sit with a stalwart of the club on the day he announces his retirement?:thumbsd:

[bacon buster]

if he sat there, would the media have asked knights about the controversy/beat up/crock of shit?

yes. so he didn't sit there, because he didn't want to take away from lloydy's moment.

makes sense to me.

[ant555]

You know what , you guys can please yourself. If you are happy to accept the conspiracy theories and belive in unconfirmed reports by journo's desperate to get the first big scoop or to justify their positions by including opinions that make their stories sound juicy the so be it. More fool you!

I will ask you this , even if Knights did want him out how has this situation been any worse than what has happened at any AFL club to any player in recent times ? and maybe remember that Sheedy had a track record of not even telling players that they where no longer required or they would not be offered contracts.

I know for an fact that there is no middle ground with Knights. He has told players straight up how he see's things. As far as a coach goes that is how things should be and how i would expect things to be.
An interesting point that has not been reported by anyone is the fact that Lloyd has struggled with constant injuries since his major hammy injury and is one of the few players to have made it back from an injury like that.

So go ahead and belive in what you think is right. Keep believing that player and coach have to love each other like brothers and Knights should be compelled to keep Lloyd and let him stand in the goal square trying to take marks until he can no longer run.

[saladin]

You know what , you guys can please yourself. If you are happy to accept the conspiracy theories and belive in unconfirmed reports by journo's desperate to get the first big scoop or to justify their positions by including opinions that make their stories sound juicy the so be it. More fool you!

I will ask you this , even if Knights did want him out how has this situation been any worse than what has happened at any AFL club to any player in recent times ? and maybe remember that Sheedy had a track record of not even telling players that they where no longer required or they would not be offered contracts.

I know for an fact that there is no middle ground with Knights. He has told players straight up how he see's things. As far as a coach goes that is how things should be and how i would expect things to be.
An interesting point that has not been reported by anyone is the fact that Lloyd has struggled with constant injuries since his major hammy injury and is one of the few players to have made it back from an injury like that.

So go ahead and belive in what you think is right. Keep believing that player and coach have to love each other like brothers and Knights should be compelled to keep Lloyd and let him stand in the goal square trying to take marks until he can no longer run.


which may not have been too far off anyway. lloydy said last night on 3aw that he has tendonitis in the ripped hammy and that he cannot even sit down without discomfit.

allan richardson said yesterday on SEN that lloyd had come to him mid-year and stated that he was really starting to struggle with the defensive running required in the modern game. he (AR) felt that lloyd had lost some of his inner drive around this time.

interestingly, lloyd said this morning that the club had offered him a contract a few months back, but that he had postponed it to years end because his commitment was drifting. would a club and coach who did not want a player to continue offer them a contract 3/4 through the season? blatantly not.

[stay true]

Agree with both Ant and Saladin.

As always, you can't let the facts get in the way of a good story.:rolleyes:

FWIW, I thought Lloydy could have played on but I can't jump to extreme conclusions that he retired because of anything other than him not feeling he was mentally and physically up for another year of footy.

The only stories from the media I paid any attention to were his article in the age and his press conference yesterday. Anything else should be taken with a grain of salt.

[bomba4eva]

which may not have been too far off anyway. lloydy said last night on 3aw that he has tendonitis in the ripped hammy and that he cannot even sit down without discomfit.

allan richardson said yesterday on SEN that lloyd had come to him mid-year and stated that he was really starting to struggle with the defensive running required in the modern game. he (AR) felt that lloyd had lost some of his inner drive around this time.

interestingly, lloyd said this morning that the club had offered him a contract a few months back, but that he had postponed it to years end because his commitment was drifting. would a club and coach who did not want a player to continue offer them a contract 3/4 through the season? blatantly not.
That is very interesting. Perhaps Lloydy was simply finished. But perhaps he wasn't. Can someone explain why Knights wasn't there right next to Lloydy in his final press conference. Captain and coach. Side by side.

[bacon buster]

if he sat there, would the media have asked knights about the controversy/beat up/crock of shit?

yes. so he didn't sit there, because he didn't want to take away from lloydy's moment.

makes sense to me.

^^^^

[ant555]

That is very interesting. Perhaps Lloydy was simply finished. But perhaps he wasn't. Can someone explain why Knights wasn't there right next to Lloydy in his final press conference. Captain and coach. Side by side.

Like the bacon man said , the moment was about Lloyd and his great career which was pretty much in decline once Knights took over. It would have been a circus if Knights had of been sitting there and to be blunt coach and captain don't have to be best mates all they need is the respect and openess that both had for each other.

In all honesty what would Lloydy have to thank Knights for other than the stuff he already mentioned like giving him the time to make his decision and the opertunity to play on if he wanted to. It is not like Knights had any input to the player or man that Lloyd is.

The day was about Lloyd and Knights did say exactly that on SEN on Wednesday night.

[SDR223]

That is very interesting. Perhaps Lloydy was simply finished. But perhaps he wasn't. Can someone explain why Knights wasn't there right next to Lloydy in his final press conference. Captain and coach. Side by side.

Pretty simple. Peter Jackson is a much better qualified person to speak about Matty Llyod brilliant career having been at Essendon for all but Llyods first season, hence the reason for the great speech he gave.

As pointed out by other posters - What was obviously a delicate and difficult decision was handled brilliantly by Essendon and Matthew Lloyd. Pure class.

Maybe it's time the consipracy theorists started showing a bit of class also.

[Bomber Man]

Yes it is a forum but having an opinion on something should at least contain something in it that has some version of the truth.
I read the australian once. Whilst camping and shortage of toilet paper.

Unfortunatley Patrick smith is on SEN with KB in the mornings.

Russia is nice this time of year. Boris is drunk, and fans are rejoycing in the streets.

Your posts are so uninformed and wrong. This is a public forum for opinions. but don't imply facts if they are wrong, and not expect a backlash.

Pull your head in.First, let me say I am surprised at the opposite opinion to mine on here. Almost all Essendon supporters I speak to have felt we would be better if Lloyd went around for one more season. To me, that means there are two possible scenarios:
1. My sample group of known supporters is different to the mass, or
2. People who agree with my view are not posting for whatever reason

Either way, I'm out of sync with the avid BF Essendon supporters. So be it, I'll be sure not to share my opinions on sensitive topics with you guys in future. It did turn out to be unfortunate timing for me to post...

Onto TT's bold points... (and to a lesser extent Ant)
Pull my head in about what? What facts have I stated or implied? "I think...", "I believe...", "In my opinion...", "I know I speak on behalf of many..." are not implied facts, even the last one - if you are not one of the many it just doesn't apply.

Quote me in full where I have stated a false fact or implied a fact, or STFU. Oh, and pull your head in.

[AndyLesPaul]

Quote me in full where I have stated a false fact or implied a fact, or STFU. Oh, and pull your head in.
Read the first page?
Why are they disagreeing with you?

[Bomber Man]

I really don't know. I guess they think I'm a d'head for having wanted a champion to play one more season and help lead/develop our kids...

I didn't even bag Knights, never have - I actually thought I'd paid him a few compliments. Just said I would like to see him show his affection for our champions a little more publicly.

To some, that apparently makes me a conspiracy theorist, and producer of false facts.

[Ben the Gooner]

Quote me in full where I have stated a false fact or implied a fact, or STFU. Oh, and pull your head in.

and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned.

:thumbsu:

[Bomber Man]

huh?

Is that supposed to be quoting me in full, or a false facts, or what?

[AndyLesPaul]

The implications that are evident surround false facts

[Ben the Gooner]

huh?

Is that supposed to be quoting me in full, or a false facts, or what?

You implied (your word) that he hadn't been treated with respect, which is a load of absolute tabloid toss.:)

[Bomber Man]

You implied (your word) that he hadn't been treated with respect, which is a load of absolute tabloid toss.:)
It wasn't actually my word, it's what I was accused of by TT. As I said, don't part-quote... the whole quote is:
"Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned."

So you left out the "many Essendon supporters believe" part, which makes it opinion, not fact, not implied fact. The only thing that can be interpreted as fact is the "many Essendon supporters believe..."

Opinion: I would like to have seen a little more from Knights supporting Lloyd.
Opinion: You are happy with the amount of respect Lloyd was shown.

And you read what you wanted to into it to find an accusation that isn't there. I have never said that Lloyd was not treated with respect, just stated my opinion I would like to have seen more. Whether or not the amount of respect paid is enough is subjective, therefore it can only ever be an opinion.

IN MY OPINION, you just can't seem to read clearly.:D

[AndyLesPaul]

"Opinion: I would like to have seen a little more from Knights supporting Lloyd."

What "facts" did you draw upon to form this opinion?
It was evident that Knights paid the utmost of respect.

[Ben the Gooner]

It wasn't actually my word, it's what I was accused of by TT. As I said, don't part-quote... the whole quote is:
"Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned."

So you left out the "many Essendon supporters believe" part, which makes it opinion, not fact, not implied fact. The only thing that can be interpreted as fact is the "many Essendon supporters believe..."

Opinion: I would like to have seen a little more from Knights supporting Lloyd.
Opinion: You are happy with the amount of respect Lloyd was shown.

And you read what you wanted to into it to find an accusation that isn't there. I have never said that Lloyd was not treated with respect, just stated my opinion I would like to have seen more. Whether or not the amount of respect paid is enough is subjective, therefore it can only ever be an opinion.

IN MY OPINION, you just can't seem to read clearly.:D

And with all due respect, your opinion is as uninformed as what ant and TT said it was. Saying it's an opinion doesn't make it uninformed. And that's a fact.

[Bomber Man]

"Opinion: I would like to have seen a little more from Knights supporting Lloyd."

What "facts" did you draw upon to form this opinion?
It was evident that Knights paid the utmost of respect.
In your opinion, whether it was "the utmost of respect" is subjective. In my opinion:
- Before Lloyd made the decision to retire, some (any) comment to the media saying Lloyd's leadership and ability would be valuable to the 2010 campaign if he decided to play on
- Some statement to the media (directly from Knights) opposing press speculation that Lloyd was "frustrated with the length of time it was taking for Knights to tell him if he was a required player for 2010" [afl.com.au]

In my opinion Knights should have at least made comment at the end of Lloyd's retirement speech, some others on here have indicated they think he should have been alongside Lloyd. Some think Knights' absence was fine.

If you disagree with my opinion, fine, I don't really care. Just don't accuse me of making up facts when I haven't.

As I have said before, I think Knights is doing a good job with our list development and on-field performance improvements. I am not a Knights basher.

[Bomber Man]

And with all due respect, your opinion is as uninformed as what ant and TT said it was. Saying it's an opinion doesn't make it uninformed. And that's a fact.Mate, don't feint "all due respect" after placing your annoying little emoticons.

You can say my views are uninformed, I can say yours are naive. Both are still just an interpretation of what we've seen, read, heard, etc... unless you are either Lloyd or Knights... which I think you're probably not.

I have not stated any facts other than Lloyd's achievements, get it?
I would have liked Knights to do a little more than he did, get it?
I don't care if you think Knights did enough, get it?
I just don't like being accused of making things up that I haven't, get it?

[AndyLesPaul]

What would Knights have said that he hasn't already said?
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26054031-23211,00.html?from=public_rss

Knights always respected him.

Quote me in full where I have stated a false fact or implied a fact, or STFU. Oh, and pull your head in.

http://www.bombersfc.com.au/tabid/6477/default.aspx?newsid=84485
Newspaper reports on Wednesday indicated Lloyd, 31 and out of contract, was frustrated with the length of time it was taking for Knights to tell him if he was a required player for 2010.
http://www.bombersfc.com.au/tabid/6477/default.aspx?newsid=84485

Maybe you should pull your head in

[Bomber Man]

What would Knights have said that he hasn't already said?
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,26054031-23211,00.html?from=public_rss

Knights always respected him.

http://www.bombersfc.com.au/tabid/6477/default.aspx?newsid=84485

Maybe you should pull your head inAnd maybe you should pull your head in...

I don't think he has to say anything new, I do think he has to squash speculation. As I said:
"- Some statement to the media (directly from Knights) opposing press speculation that Lloyd was "frustrated with the length of time it was taking for Knights to tell him if he was a required player for 2010" [afl.com.au]"

Is Paul Hamilton Matthew Knights?

[AndyLesPaul]

1. I google searched your quote and thats what I got. (I could ask you the same question)
2. How could he squash speculation? It's not like Knights was making the choice for him. Is Matthew Knights Matthew Lloyd?

Keep digging that hole

[Ben the Gooner]

I would have liked Knights to do a little more than he did, get it?
I don't care if you think Knights did enough, get it?
I just don't like being accused of making things up that I haven't, get it?

Here's the facts:


Knights offered Lloyd a new contract for 2010
Knights wanted Lloyd to play on
Ergo, Knights did enough
Ergo, your criticism of Knights for being able to "do a little more than he did" is unwarranted, and comes under the heading of "making things up"

QED:)

[AndyLesPaul]

Here's the facts:


Knights offered Lloyd a new contract for 2010
Knights wanted Lloyd to play on,possibly beyond 2010
(http://www.watoday.com.au/sport/lloyd-only-offered-one-more-year-by-bombers-20090916-frjk.html)
Many articles on The Age had hinted that Lloyd was considering retirement, with either 09 or 10 being his last season
Ergo, Knights did enough
Ergo, your criticism of Knights for being able to "do a little more than he did" is unwarranted, and comes under the heading of "making things up"

QED:)

Added some more points

[Bomber Man]

1. I google searched your quote and thats what I got. (I could ask you the same question)
2. How could he squash speculation? It's not like Knights was making the choice for him. Is Matthew Knights Matthew Lloyd?

Keep digging that holeI'm only digging mine to fill yours.

1. Maybe start reading what the google search comes up with, it was clear there was no response directly from Knights which is what I said I would've liked to see.
2. How about something like, "There is no frustration I am aware of, Matthew and I have been discussing his future already, he knows I am waiting on his decision, and he knows what role I want him to play in 2010."

Gee, that was hard - would've been a big effort to send that to afl.com.au or the Herald Sun directly. He is allowed to address the press in his role, isn't he?

[Bomber Man]

Here's the facts:


Knights offered Lloyd a new contract for 2010
Knights wanted Lloyd to play on
Ergo, Knights did enough
Ergo, your criticism of Knights for being able to "do a little more than he did" is unwarranted, and comes under the heading of "making things up"
QED:)
Thanks hammer.

[Ben the Gooner]

You're welcome. Apology accepted.:)

[Bomber Man]

You're welcome. Apology accepted.:)
More proof you can't read, and find what you want to in a comment,

No apology hammer.

[Ben the Gooner]

More proof you can't read, and find what you want to in a comment,

No apology hammer.

If you had a point to make, you'd have made it. As it is, you've conceded.

Glad to be of assistance.:)

[Bomber Man]

If you had a point to make, you'd have made it. As it is, you've conceded.

Glad to be of assistance.:)You weren't hammer. I have made it, you're too thick to understand it, you don't understand what an opinion is. Here you go:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion
o⋅pin⋅ion [uh-pin-yuhn]
–noun
1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2.a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.


That's not conceding, it's just understanding.

Bye hammer.

[AndyLesPaul]

I'm only digging mine to fill yours.

1. Maybe start reading what the google search comes up with, it was clear there was no response directly from Knights which is what I said I would've liked to see.
2. How about something like, "There is no frustration I am aware of, Matthew and I have been discussing his future already, he knows I am waiting on his decision, and he knows what role I want him to play in 2010."

Gee, that was hard - would've been a big effort to send that to afl.com.au or the Herald Sun directly. He is allowed to address the press in his role, isn't he?
1. I bolded "newspaper reports" because in most cases they are usually just speculating, and there is actual evidence that Lloyd had been offered a year.
2. Read through the links I put on the last page and have an actual read of the whole Lloyd drama

He does address the press, you are pretty much ignoring the links i sent.

Quit with all this "opinion" bullshit - We all know you have one, but its one that is uninformed
Surely you're intelligent enough to know that when you start an opinionative thread with an opinion that doesn't dawdle upon fact that you're going to get negative feedback.

Ahh well, I'm done this isn't getting anywhere

[Ben the Gooner]

You weren't hammer. I have made it, you're too thick to understand it, you don't understand what an opinion is. Here you go:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/opinion



That's not conceding, it's just understanding.

Bye hammer.

My opinion is the world is flat.

It's just an opinion, therefore I can't be wrong.:rolleyes:

[Bomber Man]

1. I bolded "newspaper reports" because in most cases they are usually just speculating, and there is actual evidence that Lloyd had been offered a year.
2. Read through the links I put on the last page and have an actual read of the whole Lloyd drama

He does address the press, you are pretty much ignoring the links i sent.

Quit with all this "opinion" bullshit - We all know you have one, but its one that is uninformed
Surely you're intelligent enough to know that when you start an opinionative thread with an opinion that doesn't dawdle upon fact that you're going to get negative feedback.

Ahh well, I'm done this isn't getting anywhere
I did and had already read through your links, the point is they are irrelevant. The one from FOX Sports with Knights quoted dates way back before the recent newspaper reports. What you just said above is my point, he could/should have ended the more recent speculation in the press that Lloyd was getting frustrated waiting for him.

I agree this isn't getting anywhere, I'm happy for you blokes to have a different opinion to me, you won't stop until I change mine to yours. None off you KNOW any more than I do, but you are stating your knowledge and interpretation of the events are better than mine.

Seriously, go back and read my two original letters with the knowledge that I wrote and posted them BEFORE Lloyd had made any announcement. Are they really that contentious or abusive? Yes they are opinionated that I think we would have been a better side in 2010 if Lloyd had played on, and that I would have liked Knights to position it more strongly that way publicly - so maybe Lloyd might have angled more that way.

Geez, get a mob together and hang me.

[Bomber Man]

My opinion is the world is flat.

It's just an opinion, therefore I can't be wrong.:rolleyes:Once again, can't read... 1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Hammer.

[Enki]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/opinion

Main Entry: opin·ion
Pronunciation: \ə-ˈpin-yən\

1 a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter

[Ben the Gooner]

Once again, can't read... 1.a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

Hammer.

Prove the world isn't flat.

[Bomber Man]

Prove the world isn't flat.I wish I could throw you the f... off it so you could see for yourself.

If you are so obtuse that I need to:
Go due North, South, East or West as long as you can and you end up crossing where you start...
The Earth's shadow on a lunar eclipse...
Do you understand how a compass works..?
Seeing boats 'disappear' over the horizon...
The fact that day and night continuously offset each other by exactly 12 hours for places directly opposite each other on the surface...

I can give you about 50 other scientific methods if you like, it's quite easy to prove beyond doubt. Would you like me to go on, hammer?

[Colin D'Cops]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:3Q23xCMG2t2SEM:http://www2.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Olympics%2BDay%2B1%2BBoxing%2B0i2QPE5jYmjl.jpg

[Ben the Gooner]

I wish I could throw you the f... off it so you could see for yourself.

If you are so obtuse that I need to:
Go due North, South, East or West as long as you can and you end up crossing where you start...
The Earth's shadow on a lunar eclipse...
Do you understand how a compass works..?
Seeing boats 'disappear' over the horizon...
The fact that day and night continuously offset each other by exactly 12 hours for places directly opposite each other on the surface...

I can give you about 50 other scientific methods if you like, it's quite easy to prove beyond doubt. Would you like me to go on, hammer?

I want irrefutable, 100% accurate proof.

Because, you know, I sort of gave you that sciencey logic stuff about Knights and Lloyd. But it wasn't good enough to shake your opinion.

[Bomber Man]

Sure genius.

Draw 3 straight lines between 3 points on the ground in a triangle with sides of >1km.
Get yourself a scientific protractor and measure the 3 angles between the lines at the points at the points.
You'll find the 3 angles add up to >180 degrees. Why? Because the lines are actually curved, because the world is round!

Now just because you're too lazy to do it doesn't mean it's not true. That's right hammer, it's math's! Haven't finished uni yet, have ya?

And when did you give any proof of anything? You've posted more about the world being flat!

I'll save you the trouble of looking through for your genius - nowhere on this thread as detailed below! The closest you came were unreferenced lines "Knights offered Lloyd a new contract for 2010" and "Knights wanted Lloyd to play on". I'm not saying either are wrong, they're actually correct to my knowledge. But they are equally irrelevant to MY OPINION on Knights in the letter:
"Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned."

I think maybe you should go back and read my original 'letters', and remind yourself they were written BEFORE the announcement of the press conference in which Lloyd retired.

You keep dreaming hammer.

:thumbsu:
You implied (your word) that he hadn't been treated with respect, which is a load of absolute tabloid toss.:)
And with all due respect, your opinion is as uninformed as what ant and TT said it was. Saying it's an opinion doesn't make it uninformed. And that's a fact.
Here's the facts:


Knights offered Lloyd a new contract for 2010
Knights wanted Lloyd to play on
Ergo, Knights did enough
Ergo, your criticism of Knights for being able to "do a little more than he did" is unwarranted, and comes under the heading of "making things up"
QED:) You're welcome. Apology accepted.:)
If you had a point to make, you'd have made it. As it is, you've conceded.

Glad to be of assistance.:)
My opinion is the world is flat.

It's just an opinion, therefore I can't be wrong.:rolleyes:
Prove the world isn't flat.
I want irrefutable, 100% accurate proof.

Because, you know, I sort of gave you that sciencey logic stuff about Knights and Lloyd. But it wasn't good enough to shake your opinion.

[Ben the Gooner]

Sure genius.

Draw 3 straight lines between 3 points on the ground in a triangle with sides of >1km.
Get yourself a scientific protractor and measure the 3 angles between the lines at the points at the points.
You'll find the 3 angles add up to >180 degrees. Why? Because the lines are actually curved, because the world is round!

Now just because you're too lazy to do it doesn't mean it's not true. That's right hammer, it's math's! Haven't finished uni yet, have ya?

And when did you give any proof of anything? You've posted more about the world being flat!

I'll save you the trouble of looking through for your genius - nowhere on this thread as detailed below! The closest you came were unreferenced lines "Knights offered Lloyd a new contract for 2010" and "Knights wanted Lloyd to play on". I'm not saying either are wrong, they're actually correct to my knowledge. But they are equally irrelevant to MY OPINION on Knights in the letter:
"Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned."

I think maybe you should go back and read my original 'letters', and remind yourself they were written BEFORE the announcement of the press conference in which Lloyd retired.

You keep dreaming hammer.

For all your rhetoric, you're still yet to point out why this post doesn't put your "opinion" to bed.

Here's the facts:


Knights offered Lloyd a new contract for 2010
Knights wanted Lloyd to play on
Ergo, Knights did enough
Ergo, your criticism of Knights for being able to "do a little more than he did" is unwarranted, and comes under the heading of "making things up"

QED:)

I'm waiting.

[Bomber Man]

For all your rhetoric, you're still yet to point out why this post doesn't put your "opinion" to bed.



I'm waiting.
Are you drunk, dumb, or both? Tell me, what do you think my opinion is? I'm waiting.

[Bomber Man]

Still waiting... Don't telll me you're arguing with it and you don't even know what it is...

You'd look pretty stupid!

[Ben the Gooner]

The part of your opinion which I am disputing is regarding your quote that "Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned."

No one can deny that.

However, the implication is that Lloyd wasn't treated with the "respect a club legend has earned". If that's not the implication, then you're basically speaking in truisms, and wasting everyone's time. That would be akin to saying "James Hird deserved a send off befitting a legend" - no one can deny that Hird was sent off appropriately.

So, given this fairly safe assumption, your opinion is that Knights didn't do enough to respect Lloyd.

This is incorrect, as described above.

[Bomber Man]

The part of your opinion which I am disputing is regarding your quote that "Many Essendon supporters believe Lloyd is still an extremely valuable player, and at the very least deserves to be treated with the respect a club legend has earned."

No one can deny that.

However, the implication is that Lloyd wasn't treated with the "respect a club legend has earned". If that's not the implication, then you're basically speaking in truisms, and wasting everyone's time. That would be akin to saying "James Hird deserved a send off befitting a legend" - no one can deny that Hird was sent off appropriately.

So, given this fairly safe assumption, your opinion is that Knights didn't do enough to respect Lloyd.

This is incorrect, as described above.So let me get this straight:

I wrote two dead-straight letters BEFORE ESSENDON ANNOUNCED THE PRESS CONFERENCE
You read an implication in it that was not there
You attacked me for it
I defended myself repeatedly saying (in spirit, not exact words) "I'm not attacking Knights, I just think he could've done a bit more"
You keep attacking me for having that opinion
I keep defending my right to that opinion
AND I'M SPEAKING TRUISMS AND WASTING EVERYONE'S TIME??!! That's f...ing gold!

The letters were OBVIOUSLY written in a genuine, open and honest tone, and as I repeatedly posted were written before Lloyd announced the press conference. If the press conference hadn't been called the next morning I think there would have been no attacks on my letters, hopefully some may have added some more encouraging messages to Lloyd to ask him to stay. You tried to turn this into something it never was.

Maybe if you weren't such a cynical smart-arse you could have stopped and listened to straight talk rather than accusing me of being the tool that you were being. I don't know how many times I said it, there was no hidden message in the letters. There are 592 words in those 2 letters, you ignored all but 9 at the end and decided there was an underlying message which is clearly not there if you read both letters in full for context, and consider the timing.

Now, why don't you be a man, admit you stuffed up, apologise for attacking me for nothing, and rather than continuing to be a cynical sh.t by dismissing honest approaches to these blokes as "truisms", just say you misread the context (at the time of writing I did hope they would give them a read, the next morning it was obviously not going to happen...).

That will end it.

[AndyLesPaul]

Lol,
You don't find it at all hypocritical that you're saying his opinion is wrong and yours isn't?

You just logged out... weak.
Probably because it's useless arguing with someone like you

Are you drunk, dumb, or both? Tell me, what do you think my opinion is? I'm waiting.
Love the fallacies.

Might like to read This Article (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/whats-real-whats-rubbish/2009/09/19/1253209043655.html)

Lloyd's opinion here, is rather evidently not that Knights is pushing him to retiring, it is that Lloyd is pushing himself into retirement, the fact that you posted the letters before the press conference means nothing, this article has so many implications of retirement that almost everyone knew it was coming.

Actually, tell me again, why you think he wasn't treated with respect, if he doesn't think he was wasn't?

[Bomber Man]

Lol,


You don't find it at all hypocritical that you're saying his opinion is wrong and yours isn't?Jesus Christ. Read slowly:

I HAVE NEVER SAID ANYONE'S OPINION IS WRONG. If I did, find it and quote it (unless you are talking about the world being flat... how f...ing stupid...).
I DON'T MIND IF ANYONE HAS DIFFERENT OPINIONS.
I AM ONLY ARGUING THAT PEOPLE, LIKE YOU, SHOULD NOT BE TELLING ME WHAT I SHOULD HAVE AS MY OPINION - I HAVE NOT COMMENTED ON ANYONE ELSE'S BEING RIGHT OR WRONG. If I did, find it and quote it.
I HAVE NEVER SAID KNIGHTS PUSHED LLOYD TO RETIRE
As stated in my post to BtG, "I don't know how many times I said it, there was no hidden message in the letters. There are 592 words in those 2 letters, you ignored all but 9 at the end and decided there was an underlying message which is clearly not there if you read both letters in full for context, and consider the timing."


Probably because it's useless arguing with someone like youI will argue against someone saying I have said things I didn't say until I drop dead. Good luck to you if you let people put words in your mouth.


Love the fallacies.What f...ing fallacies? Quote one or stop talking sh.t.


Might like to read This Article (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/rfnews/whats-real-whats-rubbish/2009/09/19/1253209043655.html)

Lloyd's opinion here, is rather evidently not that Knights is pushing him to retiring, it is that Lloyd is pushing himself into retirement, the fact that you posted the letters before the press conference means nothing, this article has so many implications of retirement that almost everyone knew it was coming.What do you think gave me inspiration to write him a letter saying we need him??


Actually, tell me again, why you think he wasn't treated with respect, if he doesn't think he was wasn't?As I have said too many times to count, I think Knights could have done a little more - that is VERY different to your interpretation of me saying Knights didn't show respect.

As I posted to you earlier, I think he could have quashed the speculation and publicly shown more support for his club champion and captain when the press started speculating, how about something like:
"There is no frustration I am aware of, Matthew and I have been discussing his future already, he knows I am waiting on his decision, and he knows what role I want him to play in 2010."
Maybe say something AT THAT TIME like "Of course we'd love for him to play on in 2010, but Matthew is still making his decision." Just to completely end the speculation. I would have liked him to just kill the noise, the presence and support is more important than the exact words. I don't think the release should have come from Paul Hamilton.

[Bomber Man]

I'm off to bed, it's ridiculous where this has ended up.

ALP - do me a favour. Read back through this thread from start to end, and read it as though you are in my seat and are not just taking the piiss. I'm not, and that should make the frustration make sense.

You guys are reading way more into that one line at the end of the Knights letter than I wrote into it.

[table tennis]

Whomb, Ant or Pazza,

Can you do us all a favour. Produce a card for our little bomber man thread.

He is clearly ill-informed, pessimistic, and some of his post have been abusive, especially to well respected Big Footy Contributers.

He is even counting the number of words in in his open letters to try and support his pathetic argument.

He posted some letters, based completely on "crap", and then spends 5 pages defending his right to an opinion.

What were your motives to posting such "crap" Bomber man?

Did you actually think that this letter would change Lloyds mind?

Did you actually believe all the crap in the media about Knights, and not be educated enough to see what had actually happened, and what was reported to have happened was different?

It was clear for all to see. If anyone cared to look into it. i cant count the number of times that Knights announced in public, how he wanted Matthew Lloyd to go on.

However, you decided to write a letter about Knights disrespecting a club champion.

Your letters were based on sh!t, and you have copped your whack from people on here that actually know what they are talking about. You will learn fast. I will give you the hot tip.

Ant for one, is probably the most informed person on this board. If you want to argue with him, at least have some cold hard facts. That is your bigfooty first lesson. That one is for free.

You can pick up the rest as you go along. but enough of the open letters, because open letters on a open forum, can be openly criticised, and if you dont want to be openly criticised, do not post on big footy.

[Kong]

So long as this thread creates 'constructive' discussion and doesn't break any rules or guidelines, it will remain open.

This doesn't mean that I enjoyed reading any of it, however.

To be honest, I want my 10 minutes back.

[RuckRyder]

Whomb, Ant or Pazza,

Can you do us all a favour. Produce a card for our little bomber man thread.

Harden up.

He doesn't need to post something only your sensitive little ears like.

[ant555]

I'm only digging mine to fill yours.

1. Maybe start reading what the google search comes up with, it was clear there was no response directly from Knights which is what I said I would've liked to see.
2. How about something like, "There is no frustration I am aware of, Matthew and I have been discussing his future already, he knows I am waiting on his decision, and he knows what role I want him to play in 2010."

Gee, that was hard - would've been a big effort to send that to afl.com.au or the Herald Sun directly. He is allowed to address the press in his role, isn't he?

What planet are you from ?
How many times did Knights have to say the decision is all Lloyds to make and if he decides to play on then we are happy to have him as he has been a great champion and deserves to have all the time he want's to make the cecision.

Hell half way through the year Knights said pretty much the same thing.
On the night of the announcement Knights spoke on SEN and pretty much said the day was about a great Essendon champion and the whole affair was pretty stress free for him as he would have been happy if he played on and he was totaly supportive of his decision to retire and he was impressed with the fact that Lloyd had known his time was up and retired on his own terms rather than playing on and knowing he was not fully comitted. He said the decision showed courage and showed the character of the man who he greatly respects.

The issue here seems to be that some think Knights should have sat down with Lloyd and delivered some sort of big speach praising Lloyd like they where great mates.
The fact of the matter is they are not great mates. They where coach and captain who had a very clear , open profesional relationship but that was it.
Knights respected Lloyd as a champion of the game , there was no doubt about that but why did he have to be the one sitting down next to Lloyd ?

He did not play a huge part in LLoyds career , in fact by time Knights came on board Lloyd was pretty much finished and about 70% the player he was.
If he was then all the questions would have been about the captain/coach relationship and not about the man himself.

Most are truning the fact that Lloyd and Knights are not really tight mates into something that it is not.

[Bomber Man]

Whomb, Ant or Pazza,

Can you do us all a favour. Produce a card for our little bomber man thread.

He is clearly ill-informed, pessimistic, and some of his post have been abusive, especially to well respected Big Footy Contributers.

He is even counting the number of words in in his open letters to try and support his pathetic argument.

He posted some letters, based completely on "crap", and then spends 5 pages defending his right to an opinion.

What were your motives to posting such "crap" Bomber man?

Did you actually think that this letter would change Lloyds mind?

Did you actually believe all the crap in the media about Knights, and not be educated enough to see what had actually happened, and what was reported to have happened was different?

It was clear for all to see. If anyone cared to look into it. i cant count the number of times that Knights announced in public, how he wanted Matthew Lloyd to go on.

However, you decided to write a letter about Knights disrespecting a club champion.

Your letters were based on sh!t, and you have copped your whack from people on here that actually know what they are talking about. You will learn fast. I will give you the hot tip.

Ant for one, is probably the most informed person on this board. If you want to argue with him, at least have some cold hard facts. That is your bigfooty first lesson. That one is for free.

You can pick up the rest as you go along. but enough of the open letters, because open letters on a open forum, can be openly criticised, and if you dont want to be openly criticised, do not post on big footy.Some of my posts have been abusive... irony. How often do you cry to the mod's?

Here you go. You are right. Your view is the only right view. Anyone that interprets anything differently to you is wrong. You are the be all and end all of football knowledge. I bow to you and your mod-begging methods.

Now just tell me what my opinion was and what it should have been to check that in all your wisdom and knowledge, you can actually read. As you said, I need to learn from you.

[ant555]

Some of my posts have been abusive... irony. How often do you cry to the mod's?

Here you go. You are right. Your view is the only right view. Anyone that interprets anything differently to you is wrong. You are the be all and end all of football knowledge. I bow to you and your mod-begging methods.

Now just tell me what my opinion was and what it should have been to check that in all your wisdom and knowledge, you can actually read. As you said, I need to learn from you.

I would hope you never get jury duty. Interpreting the facts in any other way than what they are is rather dangerous.

You keep missing the point. It is OK to have an opinion on things but you can not insist your opinion is right if the spoken facts do not support it.

People acept that in your opinion it would have been a better look if Knights sat next to him but in now way does that change the fact that this so called rift or anyone saying Knights forced Lloyd out of the club is basicly talking crap.
It would be like saying John Howard won the last election despite him not winning it at all.

[Bomber Man]

I would hope you never get jury duty. Interpreting the facts in any other way than what they are is rather dangerous.

You keep missing the point. It is OK to have an opinion on things but you can not insist your opinion is right if the spoken facts do not support it.

People acept that in your opinion it would have been a better look if Knights sat next to him but in now way does that change the fact that this so called rift or anyone saying Knights forced Lloyd out of the club is basicly talking crap.
It would be like saying John Howard won the last election despite him not winning it at all.I've done jury duty, so I guess the world must be a lesser place.

I don't think I miss any point, people, including you now, seem to be reading that I've said something I haven't said. Case point, I never said Knights should have been sitting alongside Lloyd.

I haven't supported the talk of a rift, all I've said is I think he should have done a little more to squash that talk - of there being a rift, of there being some frustration on Lloyd's part. I simply think he should have done a little more to actively talk that speculation down. That's all.

That's what I would like to see from the coach of the EFC. Knights took on a role representing the club, it's players, and in this case a captain who will go down in history as a legend of the club; in this era the coach needs to be far from behind the scenes.

Knights made comments weeks before, he said the right thing post Lloyd's conference, but in the week the press - as prominent as afl.com - mentioned Lloyd was getting frustrated by Knights lack of attention he made no comment. I would have liked to see more in that week, that's all. And that's the period in which I wrote the letters.

I am no Knights basher. I like what he's done as coach so far. I think he's improved our list and game plan markedly, and the players walk with a different beat. He has instilled greater discipline. I even complimented him in the original letter. People on here are reading/looking for way too much in what I wrote, and stretching the last few words into far greater meaning.

[Colin D'Cops]

I don't think I miss any point, people, including you now, seem to be reading that I've said something I haven't said.

Don't worry about it mate. Happens a heap on BigFooty.

I'll sell you one of my premium bullet-proof jackets for $50 if you can send a deposit of $100 in the mail; quality garenteed. [PM me for more details] :thumbsu:

[Bomber Man]

Bargain! Cheque's in the mail.

That was a joke. It's not really in the mail. Please don't tell me I'm misinformed about the cheque. Maybe it was a bad joke. Regardless it was still a joke. I thought it was an opinion to think someone was funny. The facts say I'm not funny? So be it...

Damn... this joint turned me into Woody Allen.

[Colin D'Cops]

That's the one mate; sounds good.


http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:SsewScCYVAlvHM:http://www.xyzstaffing.com/images/serious.jpg

[table tennis]

Harden up.

He doesn't need to post something only your sensitive little ears like.

I think you will find that i was being sarcastic when it came to giving him a card.

But no worries, advice taken on board.

[table tennis]

Some of my posts have been abusive... irony. How often do you cry to the mod's?

Here you go. You are right. Your view is the only right view. Anyone that interprets anything differently to you is wrong. You are the be all and end all of football knowledge. I bow to you and your mod-begging methods.

Now just tell me what my opinion was and what it should have been to check that in all your wisdom and knowledge, you can actually read. As you said, I need to learn from you.

Everytime a ill-informed, disruptive person signs up to bigfooty for thier flash in the pan.

Any open letters this week?

[Bomber Man]

Everytime a ill-informed, disruptive person signs up to bigfooty for thier flash in the pan.

Any open letters this week?Dumb... Arse...

table tennis (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/member.php?u=55446)
BigFooty Member

Essendon
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Around


Bomber Man (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/member.php?u=21914)
BigFooty Member
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/images/icons/rank/bfsc-platinum.gif (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/payments.php)

Essendon
Essendon
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Elwood


My paid for, Platinum, flash in the pan, 3 and 1/2 year plus membership. You ARE a thinking man.

[godons81]

I would hope you never get jury duty. Interpreting the facts in any other way than what they are is rather dangerous.

You keep missing the point. It is OK to have an opinion on things but you can not insist your opinion is right if the spoken facts do not support it.

People acept that in your opinion it would have been a better look if Knights sat next to him but in now way does that change the fact that this so called rift or anyone saying Knights forced Lloyd out of the club is basicly talking crap.
It would be like saying John Howard won the last election despite him not winning it at all.

pretty interesting read back given recent news...:o

[Ben the Gooner]

Given Knights and Lloyd have both publicly accepted that Knights wanted Lloyd to go on...

[table tennis]

Oh btg, you didn't?! Lol

[Kong]

Did he, though?

Lloyd states that Knights wouldn't directly answer the question.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/dont-think-youre-killing-bambi-here/story-e6frf9jf-1226098649749Knighta's response was: "I'm not into semantics. I don't need to tell Dustin Fletcher I want him to play next year -- he just turns up and trains hard.

"But Paddy Ryder, for example," I replied, "I'm sure you want him to play next year?"

He said yes, so I continued: "I just want to know whether you want me here as well. Don't feel like you're killing Bambi here. If you don't want me to play on, just tell me."

He said he would tell me if that was the case, but he never told me he wanted me to play on, either.

I couldn't get a clear answer from him, so I turned to Neo and said: "You see what I'm dealing with?"http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/dont-think-youre-killing-bambi-here/story-e6frf9jf-1226098649749


Typical of Knights.

[Ben the Gooner]

Check out Lloyd's response to Knights' response on SEN.

[Kong]

Where he said he was asked to play further up the field?

Yeah, I thought that was pretty selfish from Lloyd.

However, if that's the final word he (Lloyd) received from Knights when he straight out asked if the coach wanted the player to play on, then that's not good enough from Knights.

You either see an employee/staff as required, or you don't. Giving them a vague answer is poor management, and I can understand why it gave Lloyd the extra reason not to play on.

[yaco55]

Cant see the issue - Lloyd was offered a contract ( on good wages ) - was told this will be his role in the team - Lloyd declined the offer.

Do you think that Sheedy or Knights or Hird get on their hands and knees before Fletcher - Begging him to play on ? Of course not - They discuss Fletcher's form and motivation - And Fletch decides if he will play.

[stander]

Cant see the issue - Lloyd was offered a contract ( on good wages ) - was told this will be his role in the team - Lloyd declined the offer.

Do you think that Sheedy or Knights or Hird get on their hands and knees before Fletcher - Begging him to play on ? Of course not - They discuss Fletcher's form and motivation - And Fletch decides if he will play.

Players like Fletcher and Lloyd are not locked into positions either. Besides, the days of the stay at home full forward are long gone-Lloydy was well aware of it.

[yaco55]

Players like Fletcher and Lloyd are not locked into positions either. Besides, the days of the stay at home full forward are long gone-Lloydy was well aware of it.

Stander

I agree with you.

We could have had Buddy Franklin playing for EFC - But Lloydy still would have wanted to play FF.

[Kong]

Is it too much to assume they would say "Dustin, we want you to play on, if you do"?

[table tennis]

Didn't someone do a humourus open letter to bomber man? Hazily remember something

[Shane Hird]

Bomberman, I disagree with your suggestion that Knights hasn't shown enough respect for the man when discussing the Lloydy situation.

Did you see him on One Week at a Time the other week? He nearly had tears in his eyes while talking about the respect he has for Lloyd and how much he is loved by every Essendon supporter.

In saying that, i believe Lloydy is finished. It had to happen one day and the time is now.

The fact that he's taking so long to decide says to me he's not 100% confident about his body ( he's mind is probably ok) going another punishing season of footy and knows he's lost the edge that is needed to play the game these days.



I take that comment back..

[Bomber Man]

Hmmm... What a shame this thread went the way it did when it was written before Lloyd/Essendon announced a press conference, and with the genuine intent of recognizing the value of a champion's career and potential continued contribution...

Interesting to see that those so much more well informed than me stood so resolutely on their "known facts" of there being no rift or bad blood between Lloyd and Knights - shame only my opinions' 'facts base' were questioned I guess.