Are you getting frustrated at the EFC's ability (lack of) to attract players?

[Smyth94]

Off-field we seem to be able to get highly rated staff - think Cormack, Robson, Richardson, Prescott, Hamilton

Aside from Prismall last year, when was the last time a player that we really wanted (not one of Sheed's dud fantasys) declared that they wanted to come to Essendon.

It's not that we don't land the players, it's the fact that the players haven't nominated the Bombers as their preferred destination that rankles with me. What are we doing wrong internally? Is it the process? Do we really chase hard enough, do we SELL our club properly? Do the people that deal with the process know how to do it?

We all know how great our club is, but do players coming out of contract know?

[ant555]

It comes down to how others see our list. The blunt fact is we are not rated as overly strong by other clubs despite what our supporters would like to think.
In Burgoynes case you can see why he would pick the Hawks as despite this year they are still better placed than us to take out a flag in the next few years.

The problem is we have been crap for 6 years and have yet to gain back the respect from other sides that good sides have.
Of course it does help if you have a supporter willing to pay millions every year for a player to appear on a jigsaw puzzel and a 2 minute comercial :D

[Pevers-Legend]

But we did land Prismall and he did want to come to us. so we have landed players.

And do you really want guys playing Essendon who do it for money?

We draft our own. How many players have wanted to leave us?

[Utopian Knights]

I am a little concerned by this. From what I understand, we should have enough free space in the cap to pay for a couple of top shelf players. We should be using this to our advantage. Are we doing enough targeting of players and approaching them throughout the year to lure them over? I have my doubts.

[Godzke]

Yeah I'm not sure why players don't find us an attractive prospect. The brand of football we play is about the most exciting of any team's out there. Full of run, aggression and pace... which will be diminished with Lovett's exit, however, that should be a strong selling point for us in attracting elite players. Combined with the fact we have a young list (no ACTUALLY a young list, not like a lot of the bullshit other club's claim).

[Little Jerry]

The fact that Michael Hurley is on our list should be enough to convince any player to cross over to Essendon now.:D

[Boucks09]

Saying that I would much prefer to have a side built up through draft picks (not achieved through tanking) and developing our own, rather than poaching proven players from other clubs. It is much more satisfying that way I feel.

Take Heath Hocking as a rookie selection. I'd prefer to see him become a premiership player then say nabbing Luke Ball.

Burgoyne would've been a great addition but now the emphasis is on the likes of Reimers and Zaharakis to step up. I would take an extra couple of losses next season with these blokes playing great football, rather than having Burgoyne win us games.

I must admit though with the loss of Lloyd and Lovett post season, I am a little more concerned about next year. To lose 3 of your most senior (and top 10 when fit) is a big hole to fill.

[saladin]

historically, we haven't been a club who have landed "big-name" recruits anyway. we generally get under-valued players and turn them into something decent, but pinching supposed "stars" has never really been our way.

well, not since the raines/richardson disaster.

[Ludwig van Bertstare]

We make our own stars, we don't buy them.

[Smyth94]

Saying that I would much prefer to have a side built up through draft picks (not achieved through tanking) and developing our own, rather than poaching proven players from other clubs. It is much more satisfying that way I feel.

Take Heath Hocking as a rookie selection. I'd prefer to see him become a premiership player then say nabbing Luke Ball.

Burgoyne would've been a great addition but now the emphasis is on the likes of Reimers and Zaharakis to step up. I would take an extra couple of losses next season with these blokes playing great football, rather than having Burgoyne win us games.

I must admit though with the loss of Lloyd and Lovett post season, I am a little more concerned about next year. To lose 3 of your most senior (and top 10 when fit) is a big hole to fill.

To quote James Hetfield (Metallica) - "I get a lot of satisfaction from making music, but satisfaction don't feed my family" - Do you think the Saints or Cats fans will care just because their team contains traded players?

If you quickly sift through this decades premier's, almost all of them have players who were traded from other clubs - if we have the chance to gain quality - why would we refrain from doing so?

We make our own stars, we don't buy them.

That's the sort of attitude that holds clubs back, trading is a very important component of building a list. We're not going anywhere if our list management believe this.

[Smyth94]

It comes down to how others see our list. The blunt fact is we are not rated as overly strong by other clubs despite what our supporters would like to think.

I think this is what it ultimately comes down to, our on-field success has been pretty poor, players don't rate our list - you can see why Burgoyne chose the Hawks.

Hopefully with a strong year next year the winds will change in the view of opposition players.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Yes, it's patently obvious we aren't doing enough to sell the club.

Burgoyne was always going to the Hawks with the connection of Clarkson and Pelchen. They've been in his ear form the middle of the year so it's no real surprise.

The messages we are sending out are all wrong. Knights was interviewed last night on SEN and when asked about Burgoyne there was no excitement or tone that we really wanted him. He basically said we put our case forward and we'll wait for the outcome.

Imagine the sell Sheeds would have put forward. It would be headline after headline in the paper.

We landed small fry Prismall who's just an ordinary player who got a massive pay boost and long term contract to come to us. If we are talking mercenaries then he's numero uno.

As I've said before.. there's no spunk at the club and unless we get a kid to become an absolute superstar in the Hird, Carey mould we'll be considered second rate to players, the media and the general public.

[Ludwig van Bertstare]

Imagine the sell Sheeds would have put forward. It would be headline after headline in the paper.

For how many years did Sheedy talk about snaring an a-grade player?

[mustapha]

historically, we haven't been a club who have landed "big-name" recruits anyway. we generally get under-valued players and turn them into something decent, but pinching supposed "stars" has never really been our way.

well, not since the raines/richardson disaster.

Exactly. Since the mid 80s I don't recall us trading for a player at the peak of their powers.

* Antrobus was meant to be a gun in SA but was hit by injuries.
* John Barnes after his stint at Geelong (came to Essendon at the end of his career)?
*Paul Salmon after Hawthorn, Matthew Allan (the end of their careers at Essendon like Barnes)
* Maybe Sean Wellman (although he was not considered elite when he left Adelaide)

Mark Alvey? Darren Wheildon? Mark Fraser?

Trade week is usually a fairly dull affair for Essendon fans but the consistent success since the mid 80s more than makes up for it.

[mustapha]

For how many years did Sheedy talk about snaring an a-grade player?

Every year.

[SDR223]

It's frustrating that we've been overlooked by Judd and now Burgoyne in both cases we were in the top 3 so we've obviosuly more appealing than alot of the other clubs out there.

As Ant said, once we get some consistently good performances on the field and become a challenger again, more players will be attracted to the club.

In saying this, I don't think every big name trade is a success for clubs. For every Buckly and Judd there is a Woewodin and Hamill (played ok for the Saint by never reached his potenital mainly due to injury).
I'm far from convinced that the Burgoyne trade will be fantastic for Hawthorn especially if they lose pick 9 and Jordan Lewis.

[Occawog]

For how many years did Sheedy talk about snaring an a-grade player?i am sure we are talking Essendon...we have quite a history of buying big name players...funnily enough a number of them were from Carlton (makes me wanna spew);

Camporeale
Matthew Allen
Justin Murphy
Mal Michael
Prismal
Salmon (even though he was originally a Bomber)...

i am sure if i think really hard I can think of more.

[Bomber57]

EFC have brought players in the past, and plenty of them,we had a great purple patch in the early 80's mid 90's with local young gun players and a couple father son's, since then rivers have dried up a bit, maybe it's a problem with the powers to be (a little thing called the draft). :mad: :cool:

[TheDon35]

I don't think it's a problem. It's just a function of where the club's at.

Really, the only one I was dissapointed about was Judd and competing against a club that had twice as much to offer financially in terms of the whole VISY thing, and better draft picks was going to be difficult.

Lets look recently:

Prismall. Will IMO go on to be a gun player and he selected Essendon. The circumstances were right for him. He wanted more opportunity, probably more money and to be involved in something for the long term.

Brennan of Brisbane as I understand was keen to orchestrate a trade to Essendon which would have been a pretty big get.

As for Burgoyne, yea good player but hoonestly, he's played pretty inconsistent footy over the last couple of years. He's got a history of knee problems and will be 27 next year. I'm not that concerned with him.

I think as the next couple of years unfold, and hopefully, we get closer to the top of the ladder, you'll see more players trying to get over to the bombers.

It could be worse, we could be Collingwood and actually try to get every single player in or out of contract but end up with leigh Brown

[Bomber57]

For how many years did Sheedy talk about snaring an a-grade player?


Are you talking about his last 2/3 years or the hole time he was at EFC??

Draft picks for us, http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-essendon-bombers

[Bloodstained Bomber]

Are you talking about his last 2/3 years or the hole time he was at EFC??

Draft picks for us, http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/td-essendon-bombers

He's talking about his trying to snare a gun player, like he always talked about, from another club but never doing it.

[yodellinhank]

as the don35 said Brennan was supposed to have wanted to come to us, Trent Croad did when Hawthorn offloaded him (although that possibly goes back to the success thing), err... Richard Cole?
Bombers miss Burgoyne

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/news.asp?nid=7049]
[/B]


The Port Adelaide star was impressed by what the Bombers put to him - so much so that what his management had expected to be a two-day decision was drawn out to almost a week. "We put a very good case to him and we definitely wanted him in red and black next year so, naturally, we are disappointed but he has made his decision," Essendon general manager of football operations Paul Hamilton said today.http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/news.asp?nid=7049

Its a little disappointing, but I like the club's positive spin.

In regards to some of the other players who have asked to switch clubs and not to Essendon, these "gun for hire" players are blokes who are walking out on their club. Its not the type of person you want to attract to your football club anyways IMO.

[bomba4eva]

That's the sort of attitude that holds clubs back, trading is a very important component of building a list. We're not going anywhere if our list management believe this.

Love this part. Spot on. Can't just 'grow' all our own players.

[donsman4eva]

It could be worse, we could be Collingwood and actually try to get every single player in or out of contract but end up with leigh Brown
That's gold :D:thumbsu:

[stay true]

In reply to the original question, I wouldn't say frustration but I would say dissapointment. However that dissapointment is short lived as there is no point crying over spilt milk.

What's more important IMO is attracting the right players at the right time. It's usually the key to winning premierships as many teams have show in the past. It's all about timing.

Who knows, in a year or 2 there might be a better option than Burgoyne that we'll be able to bring to our club if we're challenging the top 4.

[Boucks09]

Love this part. Spot on. Can't just 'grow' all our own players.

You are right and most premiership sides do include traded players. But they rarely form the nucleaus of the team; they are the cream on top.

Look at our 2000 side. It was only Barnes, Barnard and Wellman who were traded players. We got Barnard and Wellman in the Salmon trade (who were both young players yet to establish themselves such as Prismall) and Barnes we took as a late selection in the National Draft in 1999.

At this stage we are not in a position to get a player who is going to give us that 5% extra to win a GF over a 1-4 year period (aka Stuart Dew for Hawthorn) and thus should only look at blokes who are going to be able to give us long term value and be in our next premiership side (Prismall now, Wellman, Barnard previously).

There is no point in us chasing somebody that is past their best or at the cusp of decline as they will be 'wasted' getting us from 8th to 4th. I'd rather wait another 12-24 months and target a gun who will get us from 4th to 1st.

Ofcourse if somebody like a Selwood, Vince, Cotchin etc who still have their best footy ahead of them became available, then it would be stupid not to go full pelt at them.

We will attract the stars when we have the respect of the competition and are cemented in the top 6. We aren't quite their yet.

[SDR223]

You are right and most premiership sides do include traded players. But they rarely form the nucleaus of the team; they are the cream on top.

Look at our 2000 side. It was only Barnes, Barnard and Wellman who were traded players. We got Barnard and Wellman in the Salmon trade (who were both young players yet to establish themselves such as Prismall) and Barnes we took as a late selection in the National Draft in 1999.

At this stage we are not in a position to get a player who is going to give us that 5% extra to win a GF over a 1-4 year period (aka Stuart Dew for Hawthorn) and thus should only look at blokes who are going to be able to give us long term value and be in our next premiership side (Prismall now, Wellman, Barnard previously).

There is no point in us chasing somebody that is past their best or at the cusp of decline as they will be 'wasted' getting us from 8th to 4th. I'd rather wait another 12-24 months and target a gun who will get us from 4th to 1st.

Ofcourse if somebody like a Selwood, Vince, Cotchin etc who still have their best footy ahead of them became available, then it would be stupid not to go full pelt at them.

We will attract the stars when we have the respect of the competition and are cemented in the top 6. We aren't quite their yet.

Brilliantly said.:thumbsu:

[SirJimi05]

Imagine the sell Sheeds would have put forward. It would be headline after headline in the paper.


What good did it do Sheedy? How many A-grade players did he manage to entice in 27 years at the club?

[kelvin_sheedy]

What good did it do Sheedy? How many A-grade players did he manage to entice in 27 years at the club?

Fair point but how many Aboriginal stars moved clubs in Sheeds time.

I'm might bump my Sheeds thread where I said if he was still with us we'd be a better side because he would have drafted Rioli, Cousins and now Burgoyne!! :D

[Enki]

And will you bump ant555's post where he rightly pointed out that by 2007 Sheedy no longer had drafting control so we would NOT have Rioli?

Will you also factor in the fact Hawthorn have been wooing Burgoyne for months and all of Sheedy's bluster would have been unlikely to change his mind simply because Hawthorn currently have a better list than us and it's a certainty that was one of the reasons he wants to go there (along with strong ties to people there)?

In fact the only thing Sheedy may have gotten done that you whine about is the Cousins things, and honestly if you really believe Cousins is still the star he once was and would have catapulted us up the ladder then you really are delusional. (and for the record, while I was not overly fussed about not taking Cousins I would have been happy for us to take him. However unlike you, I didn't harbor ideas that he would have made us a top 4 side).

[kelvin_sheedy]

And will you bump ant555's post where he rightly pointed out that by 2007 Sheedy no longer had drafting control so we would NOT have Rioli?

Will you also factor in the fact Hawthorn have been wooing Burgoyne for months and all of Sheedy's bluster would have been unlikely to change his mind simply because Hawthorn currently have a better list than us and it's a certainty that was one of the reasons he wants to go there (along with strong ties to people there)?

In fact the only thing Sheedy may have gotten done that you whine about is the Cousins things, and honestly if you really believe Cousins is still the star he once was and would have catapulted us up the ladder then you really are delusional. (and for the record, while I was not overly fussed about not taking Cousins I would have been happy for us to take him. However unlike you, I didn't harbor ideas that he would have made us a top 4 side).

Well if Sheeds had drafted Rioli and we had Cousins we might be closer to the Hawks then we think.

Shaun might have been convinced to come over and play with his brothers in Rioli, Davey, Ryder, Jetta.

[Ludwig van Bertstare]

Well if Sheeds had drafted Rioli and we had Cousins we might be closer to the Hawks then we think.

Shaun might have been convinced to come over and play with his brothers in Rioli, Davey, Ryder, Jetta.

Are you stupid? You have been told several times that Sheedy no longer had a say in recruiting so this idea that he would have drafted Rioli is silly and idiotic.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Are you stupid? You have been told several times that Sheedy no longer had a say in recruiting so this idea that he would have drafted Rioli is silly and idiotic.

I'll ignore the stupid comment and raise you the idea that Merv Keane was keen on Rioli but Dodoro was keen on Myers.

Add Sheedy to the equation and that makes it 2-1 in Rioli's favour.

Rioli, Burgoyne, Cousins.... i;m about to jizz in my pants!

[Kong]

Are you stupid? You have been told several times that Sheedy no longer had a say in recruiting so this idea that he would have drafted Rioli is silly and idiotic.Don't feed the troll.

[ant555]

I'll ignore the stupid comment and raise you the idea that Merv Keane was keen on Rioli but Dodoro was keen on Myers.

Add Sheedy to the equation and that makes it 2-1 in Rioli's favour.

Rioli, Burgoyne, Cousins.... i;m about to jizz in my pants!

Never forget the fcat that the vote actually went against Rioli becasue we had drafted Jetta and Davey the previous year and there where genuine concerns over Riolis work ethic before the draft.

Stop making shit up , you really have NFI and you base all of your arguments on your hinsight opinions where everyone can be an expert!

The problem is the stupid comments you keep ignoring are the actual facts !!

Another fine post from mini Smith !

[AJ_2000]

Some one call the doctors.... Its another case of drafting 20/20 hindsight.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Never forget the fcat that the vote actually went against Rioli becasue we had drafted Jetta and Davey the previous year and there where genuine concerns over Riolis work ethic before the draft.

Stop making shit up , you really have NFI and you base all of your arguments on your hinsight opinions where everyone can be an expert!

The problem is the stupid comments you keep ignoring are the actual facts !!

Another fine post from mini Smith !

Can you imagine though Ant? A big mac, fries and an upsized drink for less than $6?

Surely if that can happen than so can Rioli, Burgowne Cousins.

Believe dude believe. Where is life without belilef?

[ant555]

Can you imagine though Ant? A big mac, fries and an upsized drink for less than $6?

Surely if that can happen than so can Rioli, Burgowne Cousins.

Believe dude believe. Where is life without belilef?

I only deal in the real world mini Smith ;)

[Lance Uppercut]

Yes, it's patently obvious we aren't doing enough to sell the club.

Burgoyne was always going to the Hawks with the connection of Clarkson and Pelchen. They've been in his ear form the middle of the year so it's no real surprise.

The messages we are sending out are all wrong. Knights was interviewed last night on SEN and when asked about Burgoyne there was no excitement or tone that we really wanted him. He basically said we put our case forward and we'll wait for the outcome.

Imagine the sell Sheeds would have put forward. It would be headline after headline in the paper.

We landed small fry Prismall who's just an ordinary player who got a massive pay boost and long term contract to come to us. If we are talking mercenaries then he's numero uno.

As I've said before.. there's no spunk at the club and unless we get a kid to become an absolute superstar in the Hird, Carey mould we'll be considered second rate to players, the media and the general public.

yeah Sheeds landed some massive fish.

Zantuck
Cole
Michael
Cupido


A galaxy of imported stars there

[Deeksy]

It's not really that surprising. Players in other teams don't see us as being close to a premiership, and we don't have a reputation for turning around the careers of players that come to our club (ie. Sydney and Port).

To be honest, I'd rather have players that we've grown and occasionally go for disgruntled young players like Prismall. We don't have a great history with recruiting from other clubs, but it hasn't stopped us being the greatest club in the competition's history, let's just move on.

[TheDon35]

yeah Sheeds landed some massive fish.

Zantuck
Cole
Michael
Cupido


A galaxy of imported stars there

Barnard,
Wellman (AA),
McPhee (AA),
Dereck Kicket
Sean Denham
Barnes

Some pretty handy players there.

Under Sheedy, the club had plenty of failures but those mentioned were all fantastic players in premiership years (Mcphee as the exception).

[TheDon35]

yeah Sheeds landed some massive fish.

Zantuck
Cole
Michael
Cupido


A galaxy of imported stars there

BTW Michael served a purpose and played well for a couple of years. I would think given the same circumstances, Cupido would be worth the gamble.

[Lance Uppercut]

so even the great Sheeds had some hit's and misses, then?

Maybe Knights needs a bit of slack, no?

[JD11]

I'd rather not attracting any players than more Justin Murphys and Richard Coles

[BubbaYahoo]

i am sure we are talking Essendon...we have quite a history of buying big name players...funnily enough a number of them were from Carlton (makes me wanna spew);

Camporeale
Matthew Allen
Justin Murphy
Mal Michael
Prismal
Salmon (even though he was originally a Bomber)...

i am sure if i think really hard I can think of more.


Big name players the bombers managed to get in the trade:

Sean Denham
Mark Fraser
Ben Doolan
Mal Michael

Sean Denham was a very good player before he came to Essendon from Geelong. Was always in the top 10 best players for the bombers in the 90's, but not a star

Mark Fraser was seen as a big pick up for essendon and the same for Ben Doolan. Fraser was supposedly the fastest player in the AFL and Doolan one of the better up and coming "utility" players.
Essendon paid those 2 players some big money as well, but unfortunately they where never more then B grade players at best.

Those players are probably the most "big name" players the bombers ever got under Sheedy's time

[EFL Boy]

BUMP.






Luke Ball.

[Spikey]

Player picks team in the top 4 above team just in the top 8.

Top 8 team shocked for some reason.

[Skeeta Olly]

Would necessarily rule our selves out in the race for Ball...or the slow stroll.