View Full Version : Salopek - poor first game?
Firstly I will reveal my allegience to the Crows. But I did watch Ports first up game and did take particular notice of Salopeks performance.
I don't doubt that he will be a good player, and has shown positive signs in the preseason. But I am surprised by the amount of praise that he has received in the media for his first game.
It seemed to me that he came off second best in all the contested possessions and at least 2 maybe 3 times after losing contested possessions a WC goal was the direct result with his contested opponent scoring the goal. Even in his first goal he was on the end of a play that seconds earlier involved him losing a contested possession to Morrison.
I just think he had one of those games that he struggled with the pace of the game, and of course being in a team that was getting soundly beaten doesn't help. Maybe he is not quite ready for AFL or maybe he just had a bad game.
Mong
dreamkillers
4 Apr 2003, 15:15
I think your being a bit harsh on someone who is still 17 and was playing their first real game......
One of the occasions he lost the ball was just outside the 50m mark in our forward line when he was one on one with a West Coast player........what disappointed me with that occasion was that no-one came in to help which cost us the possession and a potential goal.
6 kicks, 2 handballs, 4 marks and 2 goals for someone who only played half the game was a pretty good result IMO.........
You may say he had a bad game but he was no-where near our worst in that regard and for a first game player was much better than a lot of our older an experienced players.
He coughed up the ball once or twice, but is that really an unusual thing for a first gamer?? I wouldnt think so.
8 possies, 2 goals is a reasonable result for a 17 year old first gamer.
Ford Fairlane
4 Apr 2003, 15:36
If only he could have shown the first up form of some of the legends of the game like Tongerie, Saliba and Mail I would be so much more confident about his future ... :rolleyes:
PrideofSA
4 Apr 2003, 17:13
Originally posted by Ford Fairlane
If only he could have shown the first up form of some of the legends of the game like Tongerie, Saliba and Mail I would be so much more confident about his future ... :rolleyes:
:rolleyes:
He's saying he is being talked up too much, which is a fair enough. Don't bring up totally irrelevant topica.
Power Pride
4 Apr 2003, 17:26
In regards to him having been talked up too much.. thats what I've been saying all along. Its like we've only drafted one person; and surely that kind of pressure isnt good for a 17 year old.
I thought he did relatively well for his debut, but the only thing he needs to learn how to do is tackle.
Ford Fairlane
4 Apr 2003, 17:42
Originally posted by PrideofSA
:rolleyes:
He's saying he is being talked up too much, which is a fair enough. Don't bring up totally irrelevant topica.
Oh look I've been visited by the sole arbiter of relevance. How lucky for me. I'll tell you what's not relevant here ... it's getting stuck into a 17 year old kid playing his first game because of a perceived media bias. That's pretty ironic coming from a crowie, a point I tried to make subtly, but clearly that was a little too obscure for you. Next time I'll bring my sledgehammer seeing as that appears to be your threshold for subtlety.
Originally posted by Power Pride
I thought he did relatively well for his debut, but the only thing he needs to learn how to do is tackle.
i agree, he already had a big head to begin with... think its getting in the way of tackling, yet tredders needs to tackle a bit better... anyone see him smack the ground when he lost grip of one of the westcoast players.. he could have had him... always able to slip away
Originally posted by Ford Fairlane
Oh look I've been visited by the sole arbiter of relevance. How lucky for me. I'll tell you what's not relevant here ... it's getting stuck into a 17 year old kid playing his first game because of a perceived media bias. That's pretty ironic coming from a crowie, a point I tried to make subtly, but clearly that was a little too obscure for you. Next time I'll bring my sledgehammer seeing as that appears to be your threshold for subtlety.
Getting stuck into him???? Hahahaha
You're a loser.
Don't be so defensive. I wasn't bagging the guy at all but just querying if the media has overrated his performance.
I do not expect a 17 yo in their first game to be a star or perform at the level of a seasoned AFL player. The fact is I thought he looked a little bit out of his depth and was expecting some comment as to whether people agreed with me or not. It also has no relevance as to how good he will be in the future. Port do have good players that are not in the team at the moment and they are playing someone that in my opinion looked out of his depth last week, in front of them. Obviously it bothers no-one here. That's what I was discussing.
And what's the fact that I am a 'Crowie' got to do with anything? It was not a comparison to any Crows players. Probably not surprisingly, some moron had to draw comparisons.
Brent Reilly played 1 game last year. I said exactly the same type of thing about him then. It doesn't mean he won't be a very good player one day. It's relevant. Get over it.
Obviously all you want to hear is warm and fuzzies rather than reality. I thought my initial post was very fair.
Mong
Nothing wrong with yourfirst post and your query, just that your summation of Salopek was a bit harsh and wrong. Most of us saw the whole game, I doubt if you saw much at all, if any. Ford wasn't getting defensive at you, just putting PrideofSA, who really is a grade-A moron in his place. And references to other first gamers are totally relevant. It shows that expectations may be too high, but all things considered I, and obviously the Port hierarchy felt Salopek's debut to be better than hoped for.
Originally posted by mic59
Most of us saw the whole game, I doubt if you saw much at all, if any.
Why? I didn't just say I thought he struggled. I actually gave reasons and gave examples of specific plays. Why would I say those things if I didn't actually see the game?
I did watch the whole game.
And I stand by my comments. I thought the possesions he got were in open field and when there was a contest he lost. I wasn't being at all nasty about it. And I never intended to go on about it but now I find myself having to justify my comments for some reason.
It's fine that you disagree, and I fully expected most of you would, but whats with the lame attempts to bring Saliba, Mail and Tongerie into the argument and then claim that I didn't even watch the game? You guys are weird?
Anyway, have a good one and good luck to your team. I'm outta here.
Mong
He had a pretty good debut, despite spending alot of the match on the bench still picked up 8 possies and kicked 2 goals, although I think you will find that most Power supporters thought Thurstans debut was better so I don't know what angle you are coming from about people overrating his performance.
I think it is a little bit of jealousy coming from the Crows camp that we snagged one of the best midfielders in recent drafts. Looked out of his depth? Huh? I thought he looked a natural, a slick mover who read the play well, the only areas that he struggled in was the one on one physical stuff and the adjusting to the pace of the game, which all players who are new to the AFL usually do.
McLeods first game 4 possessions
Goodwins first game 8 possessions
...
Riewoldts first game 3 possessions 1 mark
Koschitzkes first game 5 possessions 1 mark
Salopeks debut was above average, Crows supporters are just a little bit green and will find any opportunity to exercise their tall poppy syndrome.
Originally posted by Zombie
Salopeks debut was above average, Crows supporters are just a little bit green and will find any opportunity to exercise their tall poppy syndrome.
Whatever you reckon. Now you can read my mind, eh?
You are definately wrong. Tell me, why would I be jealous of Port having Salopek when he hasn't proved anything yet? How would I know if he's going to one day be a superstar or if he's going to be a dud or choose to go home to Victoria next year? He's an unknown quantity to me, I don't know him from a bar of soap. Was I jealous that Port got Michael Stevens too?
Mong
Ford Fairlane
4 Apr 2003, 19:35
Originally posted by Mong
Getting stuck into him???? Hahahaha
You're a loser.
Don't be so defensive. I wasn't bagging the guy at all but just querying if the media has overrated his performance.
I do not expect a 17 yo in their first game to be a star or perform at the level of a seasoned AFL player. The fact is I thought he looked a little bit out of his depth and was expecting some comment as to whether people agreed with me or not. It also has no relevance as to how good he will be in the future. Port do have good players that are not in the team at the moment and they are playing someone that in my opinion looked out of his depth last week, in front of them. Obviously it bothers no-one here. That's what I was discussing.
And what's the fact that I am a 'Crowie' got to do with anything? It was not a comparison to any Crows players. Probably not surprisingly, some moron had to draw comparisons.
Brent Reilly played 1 game last year. I said exactly the same type of thing about him then. It doesn't mean he won't be a very good player one day. It's relevant. Get over it.
Obviously all you want to hear is warm and fuzzies rather than reality. I thought my initial post was very fair.
Mong
... loser ... moron ... sigh, it didn't take long to become personal did it?
ok you didn't bag him? read what you wrote ...
It seemed to me that he came off second best in all the contested possessions and at least 2 maybe 3 times after losing contested possessions a WC goal was the direct result with his contested opponent scoring the goal. Even in his first goal he was on the end of a play that seconds earlier involved him losing a contested possession to Morrison.
He didn't rate in Port's best players and he barely rated a mention in the Sunday Mail's two page spread on the game. A "promising showing" ... well I can see how the media have just gone way overboard on his potential there.
As for your crowieness - you brought that up at the start of your first thread, so you tell me what it has to do with anything. I used examples of crows players to make my point that I thought it was rich of a crows supporter to complain of a player's media profile because maybe that was relevant to you. Obviously not.
And you did the same to Brent Reilly after his first game? Well I must stand and applaud the brave armchair general who can't forgive the soldiers in the trenches for getting shot. How lucky they must be to have your omnipotent judgement to guide their way.
Warm and fuzzies? Hardly. I just don't think it is either fair or relevant to sit in judgement of 17 year old players in their first outing, especially in hostile territory. I'd hate to think what you must have thought of Adam Morgan based on his first game last year. Oh that's right, he didn't get any publicity, so you probably have no idea what I'm talking about ...
Ford Fairlane
4 Apr 2003, 19:39
Originally posted by Mong
Whatever you reckon. Now you can read my mind, eh?
You are definately wrong. Tell me, why would I be jealous of Port having Salopek when he hasn't proved anything yet? How would I know if he's going to one day be a superstar or if he's going to be a dud or choose to go home to Victoria next year? He's an unknown quantity to me, I don't know him from a bar of soap. Was I jealous that Port got Michael Stevens too?
Mong
Weren't you "outta here"? Did you get lost? It's hard to believe that someone with such spectacularly good judgement can't find their way off a message board ... not that I'm bagging of course ... :rolleyes:
Is it just me, or does it seem that the Crows fans on Bigfooty need to remember that this is a board for Port fans, not for them to come in and nitpick or generally be annoying. The main board is for that kind of crap, bring it there instead.
If you have a worthwhile, positive or even insightful post to make, yeah, ok, but quit it with this nitpicky crap. This board is for Port fans with rare exceptions. Lets keep them rare, OK?
footballphantom
4 Apr 2003, 20:57
Originally posted by Porthos
Is it just me, or does it seem that the Crows fans on Bigfooty need to remember that this is a board for Port fans, not for them to come in and nitpick or generally be annoying. The main board is for that kind of crap, bring it there instead.
If you have a worthwhile, positive or even insightful post to make, yeah, ok, but quit it with this nitpicky crap. This board is for Port fans with rare exceptions. Lets keep them rare, OK?
THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT
brent33brett33
4 Apr 2003, 21:03
he knows that he's loved by the media. and he loves the attention.
but there isn't that much he can do about it. if they want to interview him, why would he say no? he wouldn't want to get on their bad side in his first year in the afl. it's not like he's gone up to them and said "cmon! write an article in the paper about how good i am!" it's their choice to say what they do about him, doubt he'd have much say in what they write.. he'd know though after he's been built up so much by the media it's gonna be a real kick in the ass for him if he doesn't live up to the expectations a lot of people would have on him by now.
but, my god, he is 17. still a school boy, has no experience in the afl. HOW can you expect him to get in the best players? he got 2 goals, that should be saying something.
if he was in his 20's or something, it'd make more sense saying he didn't play well.. but his first game.. pfft.
far out, seriously give the boy a break.
Originally posted by Mong
Port do have good players that are not in the team at the moment and they are playing someone that in my opinion looked out of his depth last week, in front of them.
Jared Poulton - back in this week
CCC - was injured, back in
Adam Morgan - tall
Stephen Gilham - tall
Chris Hall - unlucky
Joel Patfull - no chance
That was who was available to play last week. Not many good players that should have been played in front of him. Poulton and CCC are back in, but Burgoyne and Hardwick are out, so it is either him or Hall, there isn't anyone else.
Originally posted by Port01
Jared Poulton - back in this week
CCC - was injured, back in
Adam Morgan - tall
Stephen Gilham - tall
Chris Hall - unlucky
Joel Patfull - no chance
That was who was available to play last week. Not many good players that should have been played in front of him. Poulton and CCC are back in, but Burgoyne and Hardwick are out, so it is either him or Hall, there isn't anyone else.
No need to bother with common sense stuff. If people don't want to hear it, they wont.
As far as Salopeck goes, he has a long way to go yet, be it tackling, kicking on both sides, or just realising that he cannot trick AFL players like he did juniors. (Please someone tell that to the Burgoynes).
If he was experienced he would have gone for safety first in "that" goal, rather than assume he had the skills to beat allcomers. (Please someone tell that to the Burgoynes).
Inexperience that's all.
However he has a very, very, very good starting point, and he is improving on his Wizard games, and getting experience
a) earlier than probably expected
b) in early games (big bonus)
So far so good.
If he keeps improving he could be a 100 gamer by 21.
Originally posted by Porthos
Is it just me, or does it seem that the Crows fans on Bigfooty need to remember that this is a board for Port fans, not for them to come in and nitpick or generally be annoying. The main board is for that kind of crap, bring it there instead.
If you have a worthwhile, positive or even insightful post to make, yeah, ok, but quit it with this nitpicky crap. This board is for Port fans with rare exceptions. Lets keep them rare, OK?
Luckily not all Crow fans are like that, but the usual ones are getting carried away with their win. Not only here but on their own board as well.
One win against Freo at home , no injuries to speak of, and already starting threads about being unbeatable and winning all 22 games plus all finals.
How surprising. :rolleyes:
Originally posted by PAfolwr
So far so good.
If he keeps improving he could be a 100 gamer by 21. What I liked about his game was that he was getting into positions at half forward that other players saw him as a good option, which says to me that he's decent at reading the play and positioning. He's also a neat kick, but yeah, we don't need more Burgoynes.
He's not a Burgoyne. He grabs the ball and if he sees an opening he kicks or handballs. Burgoyne has a history of trying to improve a winning position so he can waltz into goal. Who could forget that mark in the goalsquare against Collingwood last year? Or that (eventual) goal against West Coast that he tried to give as a lay down to his brother? Salopek had 2 possessions in goalscoring range against West Coast and scored two goals. Peter would have had double that at least in just the first quarter for the same return.
True enough. Its just that in the two games on TV, one of his goals in each has been the result of running past the ball for the receive and slotting an easy goal rather than going in and helping/dealing it out, which is what draws the comparison.