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Laurie Bingham
6 Dec 2009, 15:52
We all know our bowling attack can't be as penetrative without Warne and McGrath and we will be thus facing bigger scores for the foreseeable future. But there are also issues with our batting and I don't think the selectors have got it right. The batting was a big part of the reason that we lost the Ashes.

My current line up would be:

Katich *
Hughes (providing he has minimal mental baggage from being unceremoniously dumped during the Ashes)
Clarke
Ponting
North
Watson
Haddin

I believe Clarke is now our best batsman and is wasted at number 5. He has tightened his technique considerably (although he did get out to a soft dismissal today) and has become more of a "grafter". He has averaged 50 and 55 in 2008 and 2009 compared to Ponting 47 and 41.

The most difficult issue is Hussey. I am loathe to drop a guy who averages 50 in Tests but unfortunately even when he has made runs recently he has done so with far less fluency than he did at his peak (the hundred in the last Test in England and his innings of 40 odd today being examples). This makes our current middle order of Hussey, Clarke and North a bit too stodgy.

Katich remains at the top of the order more by default than anything else. He gets out way too often when he is set (after making 30+) rather than going on to make a century which is vital to establish a dominant position in a Test match. The same can be said of Watson, which is why he should drop down the order (which will also hopefully allow him to bowl more). The value of the big hundreds made by Hayden at the top of the order is magnified significantly with our current opening partnership. I would prefer Rogers in the side but it would not be prudent to blood two inexperienced players (internationally at least) at the same time - especially at Rogers age. After Hughes gets to about 15 to 20 Tests experience I would reassess Katich's position (providing Katich keeps making his 40s and 50s in the meantime).

Ponting should drop down to four. His age means he is probably past his peak as a batsman (and his average over the last two calendar years bears this out) but he can still be a potent attacking weapon. He also, I think, tends to get out a bit more when set now than he did at his peak.

North should move up a place as he is a "grafter" also and needs time to make his runs and not just batting with Haddin, Johnson and the tail. Watson slots in at 6 as an attacking weapon with a reasonable technique if we have lost some quick wickets.

I think this top 7 is much better balanced than our current lineup. Attacking options of Hughes, Ponting, Watson and Haddin. "Grafters" Clarke - who can still score reasonably quickly too - and North in their rightful positions. The two question marks are Hughes' mental state and Katich but I think we have to leave Katich there for the moment.

Let the debate begin...

Bomber Bears
6 Dec 2009, 16:41
Katfish by default? Been our best bat over the last two years

I pretty much agree altho i'd keep Punter 3 Clarke 4. Jaques or Hughes to open, next NSW match in Brisbane could be important

The Governor
6 Dec 2009, 18:34
Here is my test XI:

Phil Hughes
Shane Watson
Ricky
Michael CLarke
Cameron White
Marcus North
Tim Paine (WK)
Steve Smith
Mitchell Johnson
Peter Siddle
Ben Hilfenhauss

Santana
6 Dec 2009, 18:58
Here is my test XI:

Phil Hughes
Shane Watson
Ricky
Michael CLarke
Cameron White
Marcus North
Tim Paine (WK)
Steve Smith
Mitchell Johnson
Peter Siddle
Ben Hilfenhauss

Don't see what Katich & Haddin have done to be dropped. Smith is way too raw for Test Cricket, Governor.

stmookeyj
6 Dec 2009, 20:35
The only real problems are that Hussey is scratchy at this point, and none of the top 6 are kicking on for the big score. If the bats had converted their opportunities at both tests so far this summer I doubt we'd be having this debate.

melbournemartin
6 Dec 2009, 20:50
Whilst it may take very little to get into the 2020 and one day sides, we still need to value test selections.

There are much better middle order batsmen in Australia than Cameron White. Steve Smith not as good a bowler as Hauritz and would be unlikely to bat above Johnson. Brad Haddin is by far the best keeper/batsman in Australia and Tim Paine has not done enough in first class cricket to get even close. Manou, Ronchi and Hartley would probably come before him. Katich is needed at the top of the order and has not done enough to get dropped.

Overall, a pretty poor XI Governor in my opinion.

Grimwood
6 Dec 2009, 20:51
Katich
Hussey
Ponting*
Clarke
Watson
North
Haddin+


Watson gets to bat where he belongs, which in turn grants extra fire power to the middle order. Clarke's move to four recognises the strides that he has made over the last two years and at the same time increases the responsibility on his shoulders. Hussey's move up to open allows all of this to occur, gives him a kick up the backside and makes it less disruptive if he continues to struggle and gets dropped for Hughes or Jaques in the Pakistan series.

bombersno1
6 Dec 2009, 21:01
Katich
Jaques
Ponting (c)
Watson
Clarke
North
Haddin
Johnson
Hauritz
Siddle
Hilfenhaus

Just outside:

Bollinger
Geeves

danielnajdek
6 Dec 2009, 21:09
Interesting on Pontings averages they have dropped a bit. He does seem to get out alot now when getting past 50 but I'd still keep him at 3. I'd drop Hussey just p!ss him off please then put Hughes as opener and drop Watson down the order.

Kram81
6 Dec 2009, 21:09
Here is my test XI:

Phil Hughes
Shane Watson
Ricky
Michael CLarke
Cameron White
Marcus North
Tim Paine (WK)
Steve Smith
Mitchell Johnson
Peter Siddle
Ben Hilfenhauss

You can't be serious? White in the team and no Katich? lmao.

Laurie Bingham
7 Dec 2009, 00:58
Katfish by default? Been our best bat over the last two years

I bow to your superior judgement Bomber Bears. I was very surprised to find the following stats:

Katich 2008-9 22 Tests, 36 completed innings for 1902 runs @ 52.83 with 6 hundreds

Clarke 2008-9 24 Tests, 37 completed innings for 1943 runs @ 52.51 with 7 hundreds

Not much between them, though. And Clarke nudges Katich for number of hundreds. But you will probably make the point that making hundreds opening the innings is harder than making them at 5, which I would agree with.

Laurie Bingham
7 Dec 2009, 01:16
The only real problems are that Hussey is scratchy at this point, and none of the top 6 are kicking on for the big score. If the bats had converted their opportunities at both tests so far this summer I doubt we'd be having this debate.

Clarke and North are converting their opportunities at the moment (Clarke 7 hundreds from 37 completed innings since the start of 08 and North 3 from 13). So, much to my surprise, is Katich (6 from 36). That's why Clarke and North deserve to be moved up the order.

And the reason we're having this debate is not just based on one and a half Test matches this summer. It's based on losing to South Africa at home last summer yet beating them away but then losing the Ashes during the winter when our inexperienced bowling attack, with the exception of its leader, performed quite well. Yet our experienced batting line-up let us down at vital stages.

saj_21
7 Dec 2009, 06:40
I think we can all agree on one thing, piss Hussey off! I dont expect test cricketers to score at a run a ball, but Hussey is way to slow and i can easily see him frustrating the other batsmen with lack of strike.

Watson, should be batting at 5 or 6, can play at test level.

Katich, with clarke being the form player over the last 18 months.

Ponting seems to by lacking that real sharpness to his game that saw him make some big scores 2-3 years ago.

Clarke has really stepped up his game and i can see him batting at 4.

North, needs more consistency seems to be a hundred or nothing at the moment but still is test quality player.

Katich
Hughes
Ponting
Clarke
North
Watson

For mine i think Cam White would be next cab of the rank for a spot in the middle order (only really if some one suffered an injury).

Costanza_
7 Dec 2009, 08:12
Katich
Hughes
Ponting
Clarke
North
Watson
Haddin

Gough
7 Dec 2009, 09:12
Katich
Hughes
Ponting
Clarke
North
Watson
Haddin

Only real argument you could put against that batting order is that Jacques might replace Hughes. I would rather Hughes, his youth in an aging line up gets him over the line for mine.
Hussey has cashes his chips. Odd to think they would be dropping a guy who averages 50, but his time has come. Yesterday showed that.
The Australian public needs to realise that our cricket team is no longer the dominant force that it once was. No longer can they bludgeon, bully and decimate oppositions as they once used to. Doubtlessly it is still a good side, but it is not the undisputed best anymore. On it's day it can still beat any team in the world, but similairly it could also lose to any half a dozen teams.
Personally I am enjoying it to. It is a lot more challenging to watch as a fan. At it's awesome peak the Australian Cricket team was boring in a way. Look past the brilliant individual performances and the game itself was tedious because the result was inevitable.
This has test has reinforced why test cricket is such a wonderful game. The ebbs and flows from session to session, coupled with the pressure on both sides has made for an absorbing contest.
That India, the newly crowned world champions play three tests in the next 18 months only emphasises the challenges facing test cricket. I am hoping the number one status will bring new energy to the Indian people and their enthusiasm for the longer game.
Sorry folks, have digressed slightly. Hughes for Hussey, push Watson down the order, Hughes can open with Katich. Let's see how that works out.
Now for the bowlers....