English Football(Soccer)

[Dipper]

Hey Hawkers things seem a bit slow on here at the moment so I wondered if any of you followed English football & if so what team's that you barracked for.

[Grendel]

Liverpool Dipper, but i dont pretend to be any expert on the (soccer) game. Used to love Ian Rush. Always looked so useless, but then 'bang' goal from nowhere. The guy was a marvel to someone like me without any real appreaciation of the skills of soccer.

[Pessimistic]

I think Liverpool's history mirrors the Hawks almost exactly. They were the poor cousins right up to the sixties, when they found the Messiah (Shankly/Kennedy) who transformed them into clubs which would become a force. Their successors went on to better things in the '70s and then to even more greatness in the '80s. Both have had relatively lean times in the '90s

[goatmaster]

Does that mean if Schwabby goes we will get a frenchman to coach us?
Leeds for me Dipper

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Goatmaster
the prime minister of the principality of Mooball

[Pessimistic]

Apart from my home town team, Huddersfield, I have a soft spot for Newcastle (the Magpies)- gives me a soft spot for the magpies here (If not Eddie, who is a pain)

I went to the FA cup final with them in the seventies - thrashed by Liverpool - and their record is similar to Geelong or Collingwood - Big in the fifties but not quite there these days

The Huddersfield thing gives me no allegience whatsoever to Leeds - even if they do have Aussie stars

[This message has been edited by Pessimistic (edited 13 December 2000).]

[Dipper]

I forget to say that I am an Arsenal supporter for my sins.
Pessimistic you mention Liverpool's history being similar to the Hawks,I have always wondered how the Hawks came from being perennial also rans to dominating so much,I have heard of 'Kennedy's Commandos' but I am intersted in how Hawthorn put together such a strong side especially in the 80's(I gather there was no draft then)on a Collingwood site they put it down to Hawthorn having 'the Taj Mahal of recruiting areas' so I would be intersted if you could explain how the club dominated to such a degree & then how it seemed to disappear so quickly

[Pessimistic]

I'm not sure How it happened as I was in England at the time. Grendel or someone would be able to comment.

I think the recruiting was good from a particular zone bu they also recruited well in other states.

If you imagins some of the best eagles and crows players playing for carlton and hwthorn you'd probably be back to the eighties, so to speak

[Bloodstained Angel]

Pess
I often like to refer to Collingwood as the Huddersfield of the AFL because they seem to have similar histories - you know what I mean - big (nay, HUGE) in the 1920's, nowadays not so great.

What do you reckon ?

[Grendel]

Dipper if you want the complete Hawthorn story then you should really get the history written on Hawthorn a few years back called 'The Hard Way' by Harry Gordon.

Dont know how you could get a copy IN England, but im sure if you contacted the club at
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/

then you could probably buy a copy online. Warning it wouldnt be cheap but it is worth it (imho) as it really is the best history written on any club that ive read, and ive read a few.

Other than that, visit
http://forums.f2.com.au/wbpx.dll/~hawthorn

its the official forum for the Hawks, Elt,goatmaster (Pess how come your not there?),myself and many other Hawk fans will be able to talk to you there. I will post a few othere URL'S later (im not on my computer at the moment) of some good Hawthorn sites too!

Cheers

[Dipper]

Cheers Grendel I will look into that.
RE Ian Rush he was a crap footballer but he was a great goalscorer,the same thing applies in Aussie Rules for FFs you know the kind that kicks loads of goals but if u tried to play them in another position they would be useless.

[Grendel]

Dipper thats why i loved Rushie, he did NOTHING else on the pitch. But by god did he
know how to finish! Used to amaze me how he could be so unsighted for so long then in the 85th minute BANG GOAL. Just another groupie for the glamour boys i guess hehe http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

But i will admit to being very happy that Hesky is at the club. Looks like he could be
the best buy theyve made in years. If only Owen was fit and firing and Redknapp back. I think the glory days might not be to far away, Houlierr should have been appointed years ago. Evans gggrrrr good servant but couldnt coach to save his life!

Cheers

[Same Old's]

Originally posted by Grendel:
Dipper if you want the complete Hawthorn story then you should really get the history written on Hawthorn a few years back called 'The Hard Way' by Harry Gordon.

Dont know how you could get a copy IN England, but im sure if you contacted the club at
http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/

then you could probably buy a copy online. Warning it wouldnt be cheap but it is worth it (imho) as it really is the best history written on any club that ive read, and ive read a few.

Grendel,

The Book wouldn't be that expensive considering the strength of the British Pound compared to the Australian dollar.

[Grendel]

Dipper,sorry i should at least have a guesstimate at the overall price i suppose the book would cost you if you did decide to buy it. My copy cost $40 back around 93 when
I bought it. Allowing inflation etc probably be about $50 new now. So i think thats roughly 25pnd plus P&H costs. If thats cheap
or not to you i dont know, but arent we all so grateful to SameOlds for his concern.

Cheers, DestituteGrendel

[Dipper]

Thanks everyone,you never know if I'm lucky Santa may read this(I believe he's a Hawthorn fan)& leave a copy in my stocking for Xmas.

PS Grendel you must be stoked that Liverpool beat Man Utd,it was a gutsy win & it helps Arsenal as well in the hunt for the title.You're right when u say they need a fit Owen but then again so does the England team but the little fella seems worryingly injury prone to me.Heskey has surprised everyone,no-one more than me-I used to think he was useless,just goes to show how much old Dipper knows.

[Hawkforce]

Oh no! Dipper, say it aint so!

A filthy gooner...

Have a guess who I follow!

[Dipper]

Hawkforce mate don't tell me you've got the good taste to follow Hawthorn & then by some abberation you've been corrupted into following those Spurs mongrels-it's not too late to see the light

[eagleskickass]

As my name says, I am an Eagles fan but The Hawks come second. I sorta follow Soccer, I follow Arsenal like you Dipper. When ever we get the chance to gain on Man U we lose or draw. Come On Arsenal, Beat Man U, show them they aren't God

[Same Old's]

Originally posted by eagleskickass:
Come On Arsenal, Beat Man U, show them they aren't God

Of course they're not God, there the "red devils". http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif



[This message has been edited by Same Old's (edited 01 January 2001).]

[eagleskickass]

good point

[Dipper]

Hey Same Old's they are not just the Red Devils they were spawned by Satan himself.

Eagleskickass-it's good to hear that u r a gooner mate & follow the Hawks as well,if u show that much good taste then the Eagles must have something going for them,I may have to adopt them as a sort of 2nd team or maybe designate them my WA side(LOL).You're right when u say that Arsenal screw up whenever they have the chance to catch Man U as the last few days shows & I think we now have to admit that we have no chance of the Championship but I'm not too upset as I feel that the Hawks r gonna come on strongly this year.

[eagleskickass]

Don't be disheartened Dipper. As it said on the Soccer Highlights My Dad watched recently. Arsenal knows what it is like to be Miles behind at this time and still win the Championship. There not out of the race yet.

[RogerC]

I have the misfortune to follow Luton Town. Don't blame me, I was born there.

I think their nearest equivalent in the AFL would probably be University. Plus Luton must be the biggest hole in the country.

In the Premier League - well I was going to say Coventry, but looks like they're going down too. Newcastle? At any rate, not Chelsea or Man United. Especially not Man U after the way they treated Bosnich.

[IlGino]

Another hawk fan who moonlights with soccer in the off season...

I am a (believe it or not) Birmingham City supporter... have been for about 5 years

How good is it that we are in our first cup final since 1962.... So look out liverpool fans we are gonna whip some but and also get into the PL in 2001-02!

Oh I also have a real soft spot for Middlesbroough mostly due to Juninho but now he's gone I have Okon to keep he happy!

[BUBBALOUIS]

Dipp im a Leeds man, remember as a kid watching Bremner run around at some ungodly hour on a Saturday night, Leeds seem to get a lot of coverage in those days in Australia, maybe because it was a golden era for them, anyhow now theyve got Viduka and Kewell and another young Aussie whos name escapes me just for the moment ive got even more reason to follow them. Dipp i know theyve had a bad run with injury this year but can you enlightem more as to why there having such a disappointing season. I thought Keane would be a bonus for them. Cheers

[Dipper]

Hey Bubby I'll try my best, firstly you're right they have had a bad run of injuries (Bobby Robson the Newcastle manager said at the weekend that Leeds have had the worst injury toll of anyone this season)& one of those injured was Kewell who is regarded as their best player & as such a bit of a talisman for the team.Secondly they're a young side & last season they did really well without anyone really tipping them so this season with everyone predicting big things the pressure has been on them & u know what it's like with a young developing side(u should do if u barrack for Hawthorn LOL) they usually have a dip in form after showing strongly.Thirdly they did well in the Champions League & lost sight of the premiership a little.Keane has been a bonus though,he's scored a few & he won Premiership player of the month award for January.BUT perhaps the biggest impact has been the court case involving Bowyer,Woodgate, Duberry & a reserve player-I don't know if u r aware of what happened but basically they got drunk after a night on the town & apparently beat senseless a young Asian kid, there was some coverage of the court case in today's paper & I can tell u it looks pretty nasty & if they're found guilty (which I think they probably will be)then there is no doubt that Bowyer & Woodgate are looking at custodial sentences(I must say the kid took a real beating-broken leg & nose,head injuries, concussion)Leeds have said that if they're found guilty then they'll never play for them again-so it must have had a big impact on the performances of the side.

By the way did the Leeds side of the early 70's remind u at all of the Hawthorn side of the 70s/80s-they were both clubs with a poor history in terms of winning trophies & then produced great sides that were the full of skillful players who also knew how to look after themselves but perhaps weren't as professional as they could have been.Over here they still show a match from the 70's when Leeds played Southampton & they were only leading 1-0 but instead of trying to score the 2nd they just took the p@ss & started juggling the ball & doing backheels & flicks & just seeing how long they could keep the ball without the opposition getting a touch-I still marvel at it now if it's ever shown.

[This message has been edited by DIPPER (edited 14 February 2001).]

[sbagman]

I'm a Forest fan, since about 1991. That was when Stuart Pearce, Des Walker and Brian and Nigel Clough were around. Ah those were the days.... anyway hopefully we will be promoted back to the premiership this season and maybe even stay there!!! Well let's not ask to much.

"Psycho, psycho, psycho...."

Cheers,
Sbagman.

[IlGino]

Sbagman....

Forest vs Birmingham in playoffs what do you think???

Go Blues....


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Hawthorn Football Club Australian Champions
1961, 1971, 1976, 1978, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1989,
1991

[Sydneyfan]

I'm a Wimbledon fan, I lived near Wimbledon in south west London for 9 months when I was a kid in 1986 and have followed them since. I remember when I was at school over there Liverpool was most of the other kids favourite team, even though we were in London, so I've always had a soft spot for Liverpool too. Though it was good to beat them in the 1987 (or was 1988?) FA Cup Final, a huge upest!

[Dipper]

Sydney fan it was 1988 & it was a massive shock to everyone, by the way being from Sydney do u follow the NRL as i used to live in Bondi a couple of years ago & as well as watching the Swans a couple of times I used to barrack for the Roosters as well.

[Pessimistic]

Dipper etc

It's hard for me to have any feeling for leeds.

1. I'm from huddersfield. Sworn enemies (even though they rarely play each other). Any kid at high school who followed leeds was seenas a traitor

2. Even though they were strong in the 70's (and very arrogant) they always seemed to be coming second. I wasn't keen on liverpool either back then but at least you could respect them.

3. Don Revie (the manager at the time) did admit to doing some bribes along the way. We will never know the extent of this but perhaps He couldn't bribe when he got to Finals etc.

Leeds went to water in the 80's. I maintain that liverpool are the closest 'match' to Hawthorn.

If you take the 'buying' success into consideration, Carlton would be the closest 'twin' to Leeds

[Sydneyfan]

Dipper,

Thanks for clearing it up, I couldn't remember whether it was 1987 or 1988, yeah it must be about the biggest shock upset in FA Cup history (the FA Cup Final at least).
I follow the NRL a little, not as much as I did in the past, the whole competition is pretty dead these days. I used to go for the mighty North Sydney Bears but they are no longer so I only really have a passing interest in the game these days and don't really follow any team. The Roosters are pretty good team, they look like they will go good this year. The good thing about the Roosters is that for the last 4 or 5 years they have had a partnership with the Swans (since they play right next to each other) and there are privileges you get from the Roosters if you are a Swans member, like a membership of Easts Leagues Club and a few other things, which I can't remember at the moment!
Over the last 5 or 6 years Rugby League in Sydney has fallen from being very popular with most people have at least some interest in it, to being popular by few people with others only having a passing interest in it. Rugby Union is just as big if not bigger than Rugby League in Sydney tese days.

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[This message has been edited by Sydneyfan (edited 14 February 2001).]

[BUBBALOUIS]

Dipp, thanks for the feedback on Leeds, the story regarding Bowyer and the boys has just broken in our papers in the last day or two, must be affecting the club but if found guilty they should have the book thrown at them, sounds like a very cowardly act.

Pess please dont tell me Leeds are the Carlton of the league, i couldnt stand to follow any team barely resembling the blubaggers, might have to reassess my alliances http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Dipper]

Originally posted by Pessimistic:


3. Don Revie (the manager at the time) did admit to doing some bribes along the way. We will never know the extent of this but perhaps He couldn't bribe when he got to Finals etc.

Leeds went to water in the 80's. I maintain that liverpool are the closest 'match' to Hawthorn.

Hey Pess u could be onto something there with the bribery thing,as the 1975 European Cup final between Leeds & Bayern Munich was said to have been fixed by the Germans & I've seen the footage & it sure looks that way.Maybe Leeds couldn't pay as much as Bayern-as they say if u live by the sword then you've got to be prepared to die by the sword.

The reason that I compared Hawthorn to Leeds & not Liverpool is as u said Leeds went to water after their success which is what Hawthorn did (although hopefully they're on their way back now) whereas Liverpool were always near the top of the table even if they weren't winning trophies.

[Pessimistic]

Yes the hawks certainly hit lean times in the nineties - Only one premiership and three night flags !

I read that Everton were always the top dog on merseyside until one Bill shankley arrived in the sixties (ironically from Huddersfield - He left because he said the club wasn't ambitious enough) I parallell that to John Kennedy at hawthorn. The messiah who realised they were relatively unprofessional and changed them into the most professional club in the league. Kennedy and Shankly achieved success but their successors, Paisley and Dalglish at Liverpool and Jeans and Joyce at Hawthorn achieved even more success stretching to the end of the eighties. I think leeds were fading well before that.

Yhe thing I remember at Liverpool is that players who had demonstrated only potential at other clubs became absolute champions at Liverpool. Much was expected and those who failed moved on.

[Dipper]

I know what you're saying Pess but if u don't class finishing 2nd from bottom of the ladder in 1997(?) going to water then I don't know what is.(I wasn't particularly saying that the 90's were lean but the last 7 years or so have been & I didn't think that night flags were a great inicator of things or r they?)

On another note Huddersfield have a good track record of producing fine managers so I'd just like to show my appreciation for letting us have Herbert Chapman without whom we would just be a run of the mill club like West Ham.