View Full Version : Ricky Dyson - Could be the A Grader we're looking for?
Red n Black Pride
22 Dec 2009, 15:04
I really rate this guy, I thought he had a fantastic year in '09 and if he could improve on that the sky's the limit for Ricky!! While I know he has his detractor's (even I was sceptical a couple of year's ago) I think he has really turned the corner and is the type of player that can help us improve rapidly if he lifts his game to another level. What does everyone think?
eth-dog
22 Dec 2009, 15:05
No. Good B-Grader at best
EFL Boy
22 Dec 2009, 15:06
No chance.
Wahooti Fandango
22 Dec 2009, 15:06
No. Good B-Grader at best
Completely agree. He will not get any better.
DapperDon
22 Dec 2009, 15:06
A grader? no.
He turned some corners this season, but let's not go overboard.
Skeeta Olly
22 Dec 2009, 15:09
Yes.
Fully fit Winderlich is our best chance in the immediate future.
Red n Black Pride
22 Dec 2009, 15:15
No. Good B-Grader at best
Hmm i disagree I think he has the potential to become a very good player and 2010 could be the year he makes his mark in the AFL. Having said that, if he doesn't this year he never will.
Oh Tayteridge
22 Dec 2009, 15:37
No doubt IMHO. I think a lot of players have that potential to become an elite midfielder, but it's about whether they actually combine the potential, talent, confidence, skill and work rate needed to be considered A grade.
If you look at Ricky, he has the pace and foot skill (maybe not before last year, but at this stage I am willing to consider his skills as a strength), and in the increasingly fast paced and pinpoint skilled competition that the AFL exemplifies, can potentially improve to be an A grader.
Potentially.
Zahasouvlakis
22 Dec 2009, 15:52
Completely agree. He will not get any better.
Why not? He works as hard as anyone.
Skeeta Olly
22 Dec 2009, 16:02
Really?
Yes.
Sky's the limit? Very optimistic. I wish Dyson all the best but he won't be improving _too_ much in the future. ie. he may get as highly rated as where watson is now but no further.
Yes.Fair enough.
He won't die (/be delisted) not knowing, that's for sure. If he has it in him, he'll get there.
Can you imagine opposition supporters if our star midfield consisted of Ryder, Watson, Stanton and Dyson? :D
morebeer
22 Dec 2009, 16:08
Define A Grader.
What do Judd, Ablett etc. do that Dyson doesn't?
Can be a very good and important player to us at his best. Unfortunately he doesn't quite have the ability to reach A grade levels. His best work is done on the outside and whilst he has improved his inside ability, he will never have the all-round ability of an elite player. Still very important to us, especially given last years improvement.
bomberstomake8
22 Dec 2009, 16:45
Dyson is still very weak for an afl footballer which is a key reason as to why he is still well down in terms of his inside work.
If he could work a lot in the gym, put on some serious core strength whilst still keeping his pace and long distance kicking then yes he could be an A grade midfielder.
Unfortunately i dont think thats possible, for me he just doesnt have the natural frame to be an elite afl player. He could be a very good player but i nthe top echelon i dont think so
Lance Uppercut
22 Dec 2009, 16:48
if he continues to improve the way he has, then he could be. Of course, he may not.
But he has some weapons. If he were to get the absolute most out of himself, he could be a very good player. I wouldn't say elite, but I'd love to be proved wrong
SirJimi05
22 Dec 2009, 17:23
Completely agree. He will not get any better.
Why not? I thought it would have been reasonable to assume that his encouraging form this year would give him a solid base for further improvement in the coming years.
Why do you dismiss it as if it is not possible?
SirJimi05
22 Dec 2009, 17:25
Dyson is still very weak for an afl footballer which is a key reason as to why he is still well down in terms of his inside work.
Huh? :confused::confused:
Hm.
So the age old "Ricky Dyson does not win his own ball/ is not hard enough/ soft" bulls*** is just that, Rubbish.
This year Dyson had.
5/23 - 7 or more contested possesions in a game.
14/23 - 4 -> 6 contesed posessions in a game.
4/23 - less than 3 contested possesions in a game.
I think this does prove that he is getting alot more consistency in his game. Something that he lacked in years gone by. Add to that he kicked 8 goals. and went inside 50, 78 times at an average of 3 a game.
Point is, he may never be a Gary Ablett or James Bartell, but he could become a Travis Varcoe, or a James Kelly. Someone who is not a star but does the team things, having outstanding games when it is their turn.
I'll be rapt if he turns into a Kelly ... not so rapt if he becomes a Varcoe: still too consistent for me.
thebigboy
22 Dec 2009, 18:28
He's certainly got improvement in him. Probably not enough to be an A Grader but certainly an important member of the 22.
If anyone will become our A-Grader, it'll be out of Winderlich, Prismall or Melksham (fingers crossed)
He's certainly got improvement in him. Probably not enough to be an A Grader but certainly an important member of the 22.
If anyone will become our A-Grader, it'll be out of Winderlich, Prismall or Melksham (fingers crossed)
I actually have hope for all three to (at least Winderlich and Prismall, Melksham is the great unknown as we speak)
ghostdog
22 Dec 2009, 19:06
Fully fit Winderlich is our best chance in the immediate future.
Prismall or Watson shouldn't be forgotten. Also, while his 2009 wasn't a shade on what we've seen him do, I don't think Mark McVeigh is finished yet.
History shows that Dyson will not become an elite midfielder.
Players reach their peak performance in their 6th or 7th in the system and try to hold it for as long as possible.
Dyson is entering his 7th season so there is still some improvement left - but he is currently a way off being an A Grade Mid.
ghostdog
22 Dec 2009, 19:10
Define A Grader.
What do Judd, Ablett etc. do that Dyson doesn't?
Apart from what seems effortlessly breaking tackles and creating space? Kick goals regularly.
jaaaasonnnnn
22 Dec 2009, 20:11
I hope he can become a player like Chance Bateman is for Hawthorn.
Zahasouvlakis
22 Dec 2009, 20:18
Dyson is still very weak for an afl footballer
I'd say one of his strengths is the way he is able to stand up in the tackle and still get a possesion off.
kelvin_sheedy
22 Dec 2009, 20:24
Dyson is still very weak for an afl footballer which is a key reason as to why he is still well down in terms of his inside work.
If he could work a lot in the gym, put on some serious core strength whilst still keeping his pace and long distance kicking then yes he could be an A grade midfielder.
Unfortunately i dont think thats possible, for me he just doesnt have the natural frame to be an elite afl player. He could be a very good player but i nthe top echelon i dont think so
I think this is the key. The A graders have serious core strength and ability.
Dyson has always been weak and got rag dolled in tackles. He improved a bit this year but at 24 I don't see how much more he can improve. Genetically I don't think it's in him.
He still gets lost a bit and doesn't get enough of the ball.
What he started to do really well after Anzac day was consistently make the right choices by foot and execute. He also gained a bit of confidence and started to show a bit of leadership and poise with the ball.
He could be a decent 5th/6h mid in rotations but I'm still not sure if he's going to stagnate again and get overtaken by the likes of Zaha, Houli, Reimers.
Must start getting the pill 20+ times consistently.
raymagoo
22 Dec 2009, 21:15
has turned the corner this year but still imo doesnt have what it takes to take it to that level, good disposal and a burst player but goes missing and not damaging enough, could be a great second string
Prismall or Watson shouldn't be forgotten. Also, while his 2009 wasn't a shade on what we've seen him do, I don't think Mark McVeigh is finished yet.
They definitely can. If Watson can show the form he displayed against the likes of St. Kilda every few weeks instead of a few times a year he will be elite. But I do suspect that he will never quite reach that very top level.
Prismall will be a good player but I don't think he has that many stand-out qualities that will push him beyond being a very good all-round midfielder. Although it will be interesting to see how much he will improve as he continues to return after the knee injury.
The reason I think Winderlich is the most likely is based on how well he did this year despite having a poor preparation. With his pace and elite footskills he only needs to get 25 touches to be dominant. He only achieved this 4 times this year but each time he did was a dominant player on the field ( vs. Freo, Hawthorn, Richmond and Sydney). All he really needs to do is find more of it more consistantly and if he can string a couple of preseasons together he should be able to do this.
On a related note one player that I think will be a lot better than everyone expects is Hocking. I just think he will be an excellent player for us. I think as soon as next year we will see a different player to last year. He has seemed to have trimmed down and this combined with him getting further away from his bout of OP has probably given him an extra yard of pace as evidenced by the training reports. He has plenty of things going for him too such as a huge tank, good size for a midfielder, strong enough to win his own ball, his kicking is has enough depth and he should improve the reliability of his kicking with his experience/confidence levels. I am not saying he will get to elite levels but I think he could be a bit of a surprise.
Completely agree. He will not get any better.
Just like you guys were saying last year.
He actually has all the tools- kicking, speed, fitness and even though some people wont admit it he is prepared to put his head down and win his own ball.
Jonesy1987
22 Dec 2009, 22:33
If he can up his inside ball winning ability by a bit and kick 20 goals next year, would be very damn close.
Just like you guys were saying last year.
He actually has all the tools- kicking, speed, fitness and even though some people wont admit it he is prepared to put his head down and win his own ball.
Agreed. He does win a fair amount of contested possessions, I recall him beating a few hawks for the ball in the round 22 match resulting in a goal in the last quarter.
30 seconds in:
wq19F-cFPiU
eth-dog
23 Dec 2009, 05:51
Just like you guys were saying last year.
He actually has all the tools- kicking, speed, fitness and even though some people wont admit it he is prepared to put his head down and win his own ball.
This isn't if he can become an A-Grader, but will he become an A-Grader. Yes, he has the potential to become an A-Grader, but in mine and PP's opinion, he won't. His kicking is awesome, speed and fitness are solid, but that's it. He gets his own ball when he needs to, but only then. IMO that equals to a very good B-Grade midfielder. If you are interested, here are the players who I think are A-Grader midfielders:
G. Ablett Jr
J. Bartel
C. Judd
D. Swan
A. Cooney
D. Kerr
B. Vince
A. Black
ghostdog
23 Dec 2009, 06:39
They definitely can. If Watson can show the form he displayed against the likes of St. Kilda every few weeks instead of a few times a year he will be elite. But I do suspect that he will never quite reach that very top level.
Prismall will be a good player but I don't think he has that many stand-out qualities that will push him beyond being a very good all-round midfielder. Although it will be interesting to see how much he will improve as he continues to return after the knee injury.
I think he [Hocking] could be a bit of a surprise.
I've been following the training reports as well. One of the points I noted re: Watson was the improvement in his kicking, which isn't before time. Maybe the only thing that might hold Jobe back is his lack of pace. On the other hand, who cares? If he keeps going in hard, head down, and getting that ball out, I'm a happy supporter :thumbsu:
Prismall is interesting. He has an accurate kick - I don't recall him missing a target by foot. He reads the play well and is very composed under pressure (probably why I don't recall him missing a target). While he's not elite yet I wouldn't be willing to discount the idea. As you pointed out he did return from a knee injury, so his confidence will still be building to the point where he can try anything on it without being conscious of what might happen to it. Also, Prismall has only been with EFC for one season. When he begins to develop real cohesion and understanding with the players around him I think we'll see a player who is more willing to compete for the ball and with the ball.
I'm definitely with you re: Hocking. The training reports have flattered him. I think one even suggested similarities now with Watson. Looking for a big season from Hocking.
I think Dyson's greatest strengths are his accuracy by foot, his willingness to run with the ball and his pace when doing so. He has also developed a good measure of composure under pressure, and looks to kick to the advantage of the receiver. I agree with Kelvin that at times he looks weak in tackles (although the vid posted by Winner shows an example of his determination stuck in a tackle (how good to see those blokes lined up at half forward like that to receive!)) he doesn't often show the ability to break them. Guys like Judd and Ablett often don't let their opponents get close enough to attempt to tackle because their hand-eye co-ordination is so sharp that they can fend a tackler's hand or arm. Failing that, they have the strength and quickness to fend a tackler's body. Dyson doesn't do this. I think I've seen Winders do it, just with not as much effectiveness or consistency.
mark1881
23 Dec 2009, 07:19
Dyson found himself in more contests and winning many of them and nullafying many others. Second/Third efforts were sensational! Decision making massively improved also.
Hahahahaha. There is NO CHANCE he will become an A-grade player. NO WAY!!!!
He doesn't have the skills nor consistancy that they stars of the league have. As our younger mids come through he will be happy keeping his spot in the side.
BlueGibbs2011
23 Dec 2009, 07:38
From an outsiders perspective I found myself initially laughing hysterically when a bombers supporter told me this thread existed. But in all honesty, after picking myself up off the floor, I came to my senses!!
There are loads of examples of players who change their status within the game and within a short space of time. Harder to move into the elite category for sure but easy enough to move from crabville to decent player.
Slattery for you guys was a total crab in 2008 but in 2009 really showed a lot of improvement. Over in blueland, Russell was a total crab prior to 2009 but in the season just gone has moved into the poor/average player category (an upgrade - minimal but an upgrade nonetheless!!). Nick Maxwell is another who was invisible prior to 2009.
In terms of Dyson, yes, the OP has taken an overdose of happy pills, but there is a miniscule chance it could happen.
What pisses me off is that in years past, you could label a player a crab for life. These days, you do it at your peril!! Life is just not fair!
PS
Ok, pissing off back to my own board, and yes, Houlahan was the one screaming at Crown, and not the girl. I know!
Internal Memo
23 Dec 2009, 07:44
Dyson, whether intentionally or pushed, will end up being a small defender. Love the idea of Pears marking, handpassing to Dyson who then delivers way up to the wing.
We have lots of midfielders coming through, but not small defenders. And we may not have A graders in the middle but I'd settle for some B+ bullies like Hocking.
Skeeta Olly
23 Dec 2009, 08:01
This isn't if he can become an A-Grader, but will he become an A-Grader. Yes, he has the potential to become an A-Grader, but in mine and PP's opinion, he won't. His kicking is awesome, speed and fitness are solid, but that's it. He gets his own ball when he needs to, but only then. IMO that equals to a very good B-Grade midfielder. If you are interested, here are the players who I think are A-Grader midfielders:
G. Ablett Jr
J. Bartel
C. Judd
D. Swan
A. Cooney
D. Kerr
B. Vince
A. Black
I don't rate Ablett, Judd and Co as A Grade players, but elite players.
The question is Ricky Dyson - Could be the A Grader we're looking for?
Red n Black Pride
23 Dec 2009, 08:07
As soon as I say elite player, people think of Ablett and Judd (which of course they are) but Dyson at his best wouldn't really be like either of those player's. I would maybe liken him to Clinton Young from Hawthorn, who I think is highly underrated, running into space, beautiful disposal and pace to burn.
Towno78
23 Dec 2009, 09:23
With the question asking, could he be an A grader... Anyone can be if they work hard enough. You look at players like Watson, Boyd, Cross and you'll notice that these guys aren't blessed with the natural tools of an elite footballer, but due to their superior workrate are knocking on the door to A grade status and could potentially get there just as the likes of a Scotty West before them.
Dyson has more tools with his speed and foot skills than all these guys, so of course he could. But I don't think he will get all that much better, solid B grader at best.
Our best chances of A grade status in my opinion are:
Watson, Winderlich, Prismall, Houli (and Melksham I guess, but who knows).
Watson is obviously close. Winderlich if he gets his body right and produces his best more regularly will be as he's shown he can tear a game apart like an A grader. Both Houli and Prismall I see the potential to becoming a Ben Cousins like workhorse running all day and racking up touches at will, both have foot skills that could be very damaging.:thumbsu:
Would have to start dominating a few more games to become an A grade mid. Of course it now seems that we have elite mids and then A grade mids going on some peoples ranking system. Not sure why. When did being A grade become less than being elite ? It is like having position 1 and then saying well position 1a is better.
Come on guys A grade is elite, the best going around, champion player. Then you have your B and C grade players which is where Dyson currently sits. I would say he is a C grader who is pushing to be a B grader. He has no hope of being A grade and being at the same Level as Judd or Ablett!
Skeeta Olly
23 Dec 2009, 09:41
Would have to start dominating a few more games to become an A grade mid. Of course it now seems that we have elite mids and then A grade mids going on some peoples ranking system. Not sure why. When did being A grade become less than being elite ? It is like having position 1 and then saying well position 1a is better.
Come on guys A grade is elite, the best going around, champion player. Then you have your B and C grade players which is where Dyson currently sits. I would say he is a C grader who is pushing to be a B grader. He has no hope of being A grade and being at the same Level as Judd or Ablett!
To go off topic quickly.
If A grade is Ablett and Judd, then surely your Joel Corey, Nick Dal Santo and Bernie Vince's are all B graders. That's why I have elite and A graders as separate, to split the freaks from very good players.
Dyson is either a B grader trying to make it to A grade (with Elite) or C grade trying to make it to B grade (No elite).
To go off topic quickly.
If A grade is Ablett and Judd, then surely your Joel Corey, Nick Dal Santo and Bernie Vince's are all B graders. That's why I have elite and A graders as separate, to split the freaks from very good players.I agree with you, and rank my players accordingly.
nickh32
23 Dec 2009, 10:06
This isn't if he can become an A-Grader, but will he become an A-Grader. Yes, he has the potential to become an A-Grader, but in mine and PP's opinion, he won't. His kicking is awesome, speed and fitness are solid, but that's it. He gets his own ball when he needs to, but only then. IMO that equals to a very good B-Grade midfielder. If you are interested, here are the players who I think are A-Grader midfielders:
G. Ablett Jr
J. Bartel
C. Judd
D. Swan
A. Cooney
D. Kerr
B. Vince
A. Black
Do you mean S. Black from Brisbane? Because A.Black just got drafted to north and not played a game yet.
Giggidy Giggidy
23 Dec 2009, 10:20
The reason I think Winderlich is the most likely is based on how well he did this year despite having a poor preparation. With his pace and elite footskills he only needs to get 25 touches to be dominant. He only achieved this 4 times this year but each time he did was a dominant player on the field ( vs. Freo, Hawthorn, Richmond and Sydney). All he really needs to do is find more of it more consistantly and if he can string a couple of preseasons together he should be able to do this.
Spot on there re Licha :thumbsu:
Those 4 matches he received 2; 2; 3 & 3 brownlow votes and was the key to us winning each of them IMHO. He also kicked mutliple goals in 3 of them which shows how damaging he can be (with 17 for the year).
If he did that 8-10 times rather than 4, which is very possible off a full pre-season and with increased confidence, there's no reason he couldn't kick 25-30 goals & get 20+ Brownlow votes, which would be an elite season.
Back on topic, if A grade = elite, then no I don't think Ricky quite has the scope to reach that from this point of his career, but on the alternate definition where A graders are those one tier back, then yes, absolutely has the potential.
To go off topic quickly.
If A grade is Ablett and Judd, then surely your Joel Corey, Nick Dal Santo and Bernie Vince's are all B graders. That's why I have elite and A graders as separate, to split the freaks from very good players.
Dyson is either a B grader trying to make it to A grade (with Elite) or C grade trying to make it to B grade (No elite).
Well what is wrong with calling them B graders ?
Why do good or very good players have to be A graders?
If it is so degrading to be a B grader then we need to have A1 A2 A3 etc
What is wrong with a simple system that has worked for 100's of years?
Elite/Champion is A
Very good is B
Good is C
Average is D
Below Average is E
Very poor is F
Simple system.
That is the exact reason why i have said for a while that we do not have any A grade players. We have a couple that have that potential in Ryder and Hurley but the rest are B's , C's and D's.
Skeeta Olly
23 Dec 2009, 11:18
For me, it probably mirrors the marking school system use.
A+ - The best
A - Very Good
B - Good
C - Average
D - Below Average
E - Bad
F - Fail
Slattery_20
23 Dec 2009, 11:26
I think this is the key. The A graders have serious core strength and ability.
Dyson has always been weak and got rag dolled in tackles. He improved a bit this year but at 24 I don't see how much more he can improve. Genetically I don't think it's in him.
He still gets lost a bit and doesn't get enough of the ball.
What he started to do really well after Anzac day was consistently make the right choices by foot and execute. He also gained a bit of confidence and started to show a bit of leadership and poise with the ball.
He could be a decent 5th/6h mid in rotations but I'm still not sure if he's going to stagnate again and get overtaken by the likes of Zaha, Houli, Reimers.
Must start getting the pill 20+ times consistently.
I thin kpeople get a bit carried away with having a perfect player - I haven't seen one yet, and that includes Hird Voss Carey etc. Guys like Matera or Bewick weren't really huge, just strong enough to ride the tackle and dish off... Dyso is not far away from that. I haven't seen Dyso getting lost anywhere near as much under Knights as under Sheedy. He has been the one player who has absolutely thrived with the change, and the confidence MK showed in him.
Players who naturally want to kick long are always important. Goal-kicking mids are always important. He's got both of those things, and lightning pace to boot, which is getting increasingly important. Rick has everything to be a very, very good player. Moreover, the sort of player who our game-plan is built around... working the ball around unti lwe find a guy with the extra half second to look up and spot a long target. With Lovey not there, he'll move up a notch in our rotations I imagine, with Zaka or Houli coming into the mix.
Knight Ryders
23 Dec 2009, 11:58
Dyson is the sort of player you need in a good side, he can do a job, he has good skill and pace, has an occasional ball burster of a game and has some versatility. As far as an 'A' Grade midfielder goes, I would be very surprised if he ever reached that level.
Good depth player, which shouldn't be under sold in the current AFL climate.
Would have to start dominating a few more games to become an A grade mid. Of course it now seems that we have elite mids and then A grade mids going on some peoples ranking system. Not sure why. When did being A grade become less than being elite ? It is like having position 1 and then saying well position 1a is better.
Come on guys A grade is elite, the best going around, champion player. Then you have your B and C grade players which is where Dyson currently sits. I would say he is a C grader who is pushing to be a B grader. He has no hope of being A grade and being at the same Level as Judd or Ablett!
^ This. I don't see the logic in people pushing elite into a category of its own. This doesn't take it off the ranking scale, as any thorough must include all possibilities to be considered useful (even if only in a vague sense). Although I must admit I sometimes use plus and minus grades to differentiate at the different levels.
I'd also have to agree that Ricky is a C grader currently, who probably needs to inch towards B grade to really cement himself in the long term. Lets face it, although he had a breakout year it wasn't the same as someone like Rich or Selwood. Dyson's was more that people thought he was crap, and even last year when he showed improvement (albeit still too inconsistent) people were still questioning whether he was worth persisting with, and this year he proved them wrong. So his break out was more about proving Essendon supporters wrong than showing the football world he was a gun, a different sort of breakout.
At his best (talking about in the midfield) in 2008 McVeigh was still only a B grader, a good B grader in great form but a B grader none the less. Dyson is not at that level yet, sure he had a good year and did some important defensive jobs while becoming more consistent, but he will need to improve his hurt factor and possessions in 2010 to stamp his claim to being a good B grade player. As for becoming an A grader, nope, true A graders have something special that you know when you see. Even if it is just unrealised potential (e.g. Hurley has that something special that seems to shout potential A grader here) they still have traits that could (not a surety that they will, hard work, development etc. is still required obviously) elevate them above their peers.
Wahooti Fandango
23 Dec 2009, 14:36
Why not? He works as hard as anyone.
There is a limit on his ability that is independent from the amount of effort that he invests in training and the like. A sort of nature vs nurture scenario.
Skeeta Olly
23 Dec 2009, 14:45
wq19F-cFPiU
Two highlights show:
- Speed
- Goal kicking ability
- Core strength
- Hard ball get
He gets another preseason to work on this.
Game against St Kilda
hEu3byWjbG0
- Out side running, good vision great kick to Monfries
Carlton Round 3
tdusQqwzEEQ
- Vision + kick
Anzac Day
1A1Ol3ya6-U
- Takes responsibility
- That ****ing left foot again
Not to mention being the best Essendon player in games such as our loss to WCE late in the season.
Zahasouvlakis
23 Dec 2009, 15:17
Not to mention being the best Essendon player in games such as our loss to WCE late in the season.
And against Fremantle, when it looked like nobody else gave a shit
Red n Black Pride
23 Dec 2009, 15:27
True.. He was having a red hot go when it seemed others around him were not!! Very much looking forward with interest to see how he goes next year
Knight Ryders
23 Dec 2009, 16:22
We all have our moments, but it doesn't necessarily equate to performance.
The 'Poo' had more potential than anyone playing at the time, but he very rarely reached those heights. Lleyton Hewitt had bugger all in respects to big weapons, but he had 'intangibles' that can't be measured that drove him to the top.
So...it takes more than a good left foot to make it. For Dyson, I still think he seriously lacks belief. He may belief he deserves to play in the best 22, but I'm not sure he believes he should be in our top echeleon of players.
HULK HOGAN
23 Dec 2009, 16:42
Having coached Rick at U-17 level I can tell you that Nobody has a better attitude, the way he applys himself to the game is second to none. Something obviously clicked with him last year (which was a conbination of thing that I wont get into). 1 thing is certain
he has put on a few kg's and is havin one of his best pre seasons yet (like alot of the boys). ELITE, A GRADE NOT SURE, FURTHER IMPROVEMENT DEFINATELY!!
Good luck RD.
Skeeta Olly
23 Dec 2009, 16:51
We all have our moments, but it doesn't necessarily equate to performance.
They were simply highlights I found on youtube. If you look throughout the whole season, he's had a few bad games, but has had plenty of good games and a couple of outstanding ones.
The 'Poo' had more potential than anyone playing at the time, but he very rarely reached those heights. Lleyton Hewitt had bugger all in respects to big weapons, but he had 'intangibles' that can't be measured that drove him to the top.
Every player had an assets that makes them what they are. The Poo had a monster serve and Hewitt is a pest with amazing court coverage. Ablett has core strength Neagle has great dukes and Dyson has a penetrating left boot.
So...it takes more than a good left foot to make it. For Dyson, I still think he seriously lacks belief. He may belief he deserves to play in the best 22, but I'm not sure he believes he should be in our top echeleon of players.
Dyson has much more than a good left boot. I'll admit that before this season, he lacked belief and that coach lacked belief (Sheedy). When Knights came along Dyson really started to improve. The coach showed him that he believed in him and the stats show that.
In 2008 he improved in a few areas. His disposal average increased by 5. His tackle count went from 16 to 29.
Then in 2009, disposal average went up to 19 from 17.8. He utilised his left boot. 55 tackles and 8 goals.
From 2007 disposals have increased by almost 7 per game. He averages 1 more tackle per game and has gone from 3 goals to 8.
I also think that every play has a belief that they can become one of the top 10 players in their respective teams. If you don't have goals, you'll fall behind. I'm sure Ricky has his goals and he has the belief that he can reach those goals. If he doesn't have the belief he might has well hang up the boots.
Jetta will be aiming to be our team's number one small forward, Daniher and Slattery will aim to be the our team's best utility to replace McPhee. Yes it is probably unlikely for Slattery to get that role being so young but he has to have something to aim for. If you aim for something there's always that slight chance you'll get it.
I've probably gone over the top, but you get my point.
Lots of over analysis in this thread.
Players reach their peak performance in their 6th or 7th year in ths system.
Dyson is currently coming to his 7th season and is marginally above C Grade - He will need to take a quantum step to reach A Grade.
Skeeta Olly
23 Dec 2009, 17:30
Lots of over analysis in this thread.
Players reach their peak performance in their 6th or 7th year in ths system.
Dyson is currently coming to his 7th season and is marginally above C Grade - He will need to take a quantum step to reach A Grade.
He's Benjamin Button.
Mad Bomber Sean
23 Dec 2009, 17:53
Here's a less than brave statement - Dyson will never ever become elite.
However he is an important contributor & if he can simply play a consistant high standard of footy thats all we need.
How many times I have read "This guy is going to become elite..." threads lately?
Here's a less than brave statement - Dyson will never ever become elite.
However he is an important contributor & if he can simply play a consistant high standard of footy thats all we need.
How many times I have read "This guy is going to become elite..." threads lately?
A few too many times. Even more so leading into the draft.
Knight Ryders
23 Dec 2009, 18:38
Dyson has much more than a good left boot. I'll admit that before this season, he lacked belief and that coach lacked belief (Sheedy). When Knights came along Dyson really started to improve. The coach showed him that he believed in him and the stats show that.
I've probably gone over the top, but you get my point.
If we're talking elite, and that how I'm judging Dyson against, I don't think he has more than one elite trait. Good player - sure. Was I stoked that he produced - sure. Do I think he can get better - sure. Can he reach the Ablett, Judd, Hayes heights - no.
You could probably find an elite trait for every player on an AFL list. That's why they are there and we're banging away at a keyboard. There's a big difference between having an elite trait or traits though and being a true elite player of the AFL.
Please don't misread my argument against Ricky - I'm stoked that he had a career best season last year with a couple of spine tingling moments (his goal against the Pies just about sent me through the roof), but let's not get too carried away.
Skeeta Olly
23 Dec 2009, 18:44
If we're talking elite, and that how I'm judging Dyson against, I don't think he has more than one elite trait. Good player - sure. Was I stoked that he produced - sure. Do I think he can get better - sure. Can he reach the Ablett, Judd, Hayes heights - no.
You could probably find an elite trait for every player on an AFL list. That's why they are there and we're banging away at a keyboard. There's a big difference between having an elite trait or traits though and being a true elite player of the AFL.
Please don't misread my argument against Ricky - I'm stoked that he had a career best season last year with a couple of spine tingling moments (his goal against the Pies just about sent me through the roof), but let's not get too carried away.
I'm not misreading, I completely understand what you said.:)
My comments are on the assumption that there's B grade, A grade and Elite (A+) grade.
Wahooti Fandango
23 Dec 2009, 19:30
Here's a less than brave statement - Dyson will never ever become elite.
However he is an important contributor & if he can simply play a consistant high standard of footy thats all we need.
How many times I have read "This guy is going to become elite..." threads lately?
What he said. :thumbsu:
zen dice man
23 Dec 2009, 19:49
How many times I have read "This guy is going to become elite..." threads lately?
To much sense to be a genuinely Mad Bomber - it's the preseason, aside from Watson becoming captain & a few Blues players doing there normal BS what else do we talk about round here?
Dyson will become Elite when I become a big footy legend - never. :D
Wahooti Fandango
23 Dec 2009, 19:57
To much sense to be a genuinely Mad Bomber - it's the preseason, aside from Watson becoming captain & a few Blues players doing there normal BS what else do we talk about round here?
Dyson will become Elite when I become a big footy legend - never. :D
Just head to The Hangar for epic lulz.
SirJimi05
23 Dec 2009, 20:35
Well what is wrong with calling them B graders ?
Why do good or very good players have to be A graders?
If it is so degrading to be a B grader then we need to have A1 A2 A3 etc
What is wrong with a simple system that has worked for 100's of years?
Elite/Champion is A
Very good is B
Good is C
Average is D
Below Average is E
Very poor is F
Simple system.
That is the exact reason why i have said for a while that we do not have any A grade players. We have a couple that have that potential in Ryder and Hurley but the rest are B's , C's and D's.
This system has been in place for 100 years? I just tried googling this official system that you speak of but could not find anything about it.
Are you sure this is not just the way that you prefer to rank your players? I mean....after all, it is totally subjective and it's just semantics at the end of the day. I fail to believe that we have an official system in place.
I have actually always thought that the majority of people used A+, A, B+for example....
And for what it is worth i reckon the way you do it is quite strange. A is for the best players going around but the definition of elite is the best of the best. How can a player be the best of the best if he is only better than the B graders....obviously B is not the best? Also, if we use your method we would have an absolute ridiculous amount of elite players in the competition and this would make a mockery of the term elite.
In my opinion elite is for the best few players of any set/group. After that you have the A-graders.
Champions and legends are another level above that...
SirJimi05
23 Dec 2009, 20:40
To much sense to be a genuinely Mad Bomber - it's the preseason, aside from Watson becoming captain & a few Blues players doing there normal BS what else do we talk about round here?
Dyson will become Elite when I become a big footy legend - never. :D
I'm already elite so apparently that means i'm also a legend and champion. :cool:
This system has been in place for 100 years? I just tried googling this official system that you speak of but could not find anything about it.
Are you sure this is not just the way that you prefer to rank your players? I mean....after all, it is totally subjective and it's just semantics at the end of the day. I fail to believe that we have an official system in place.
I have actually always thought that the majority of people used A+, A, B+for example....
And for what it is worth i reckon the way you do it is quite strange. A is for the best players going around but the definition of elite is the best of the best. How can a player be the best of the best if he is only better than the B graders....obviously B is not the best? Also, if we use your method we would have an absolute ridiculous amount of elite players in the competition and this would make a mockery of the term elite.
In my opinion elite is for the best few players of any set/group. After that you have the A-graders.
Champions and legends are another level above that...
So you are telling me that they have not been using the A to F grading system in schools for over 100 years ?
The actual A+ A- etc was actually not part of the early system and was introduced at a much later date to correspond with scoring out of 100 in test results to narrow the range down ie A+ being the 90/100 to 100/100 range etc.
Obviously you find my system strange as you do not understand it. If elite is A then only elite get to be A. How much more simple do you want it.
It does not lead to having a huge amount of elite players because players who are not in the elite class are not A grade.They are B or C. What it does do is lead to a lot more players being placed in the average section.
This whole elite and then A grade is simply adding another class because because you refuse to call good players B grade.
I actually think that there is a ridiculous number of players being called A graders.
A was always the first number in the alphabet hence the first or best was referred to as A.
Anyway if you all want to have 50 or 60 players rated between elite and A- then go ahead. I only outlined something a lot more simple.
Of course then you start getting comments about Dyson being A grade and pushing to be elite....
ghostdog
24 Dec 2009, 12:13
I'm already elite so apparently that means i'm also a legend and champion. :cool:
Bravo!:thumbsu:
Hirdman
29 Dec 2009, 10:03
If Ricky Dyson becomes Elite, A+, A grade or whatever the trendy vernacular of day is I will buy a hotdog cart in Baghdad......
Posts like this are just ridiculous, Dyson has gone from a 12-13 possesion a game peripheral player that was very close to being delisted to a player after 5 years in the system that has finally commanded a regular game in a team that finished 8th.
I'm really happy for Rick and after a very long time he is becoming a genuine contributer, he is a lovely kick with decent pace but he still drifts in and out of games far to much to even be called a B grader...
Lance Uppercut
31 Dec 2009, 13:36
If Ricky Dyson becomes Elite, A+, A grade or whatever the trendy vernacular of day is I will buy a hotdog cart in Baghdad......
one of these?
http://i726.photobucket.com/albums/ww270/proud2b_american/crabjuice.jpg
I don't think they sell hotdogs as such. Crab juice, however... ;)
Question - is Embley A grade?
Because a lot of the things people say Dyson doesn't do enough of, neither does/did Embley. But I'd argue Embley was definitely A grade.
My personal view is I think Dyson has the tools to do it. I think he'll improve next year. But in my view the A graders are roughly the top 25 mids in the comp (see below) - and I think Dyson will struggle to make that group.
Ant555 - A straight A student is not (necesarily) the elite of the school system. I would argue its the same for AFL. I would say A grade midfielders would be the top 10%/15%, which means if you just take clubs best 25 players it probably means around 14 => 24 A grade players across the competiton (assuming most sides have 8 => 10 midfielders in their best 25). So say the top 24 midfielders, or 3 every 2 teams. Some would have more than their fair share of course.
I would distinguish the elite from those as the very top handful of those 24 players.
The House
12 Jan 2010, 13:37
Define A Grader.
What do Judd, Ablett etc. do that Dyson doesn't?
Oh my god. I hope this guy's joking.
Red n Black Pride
13 Jan 2010, 07:54
Oh my god. I hope this guy's joking.
Dude he's asking a question, what DO they do that Dyson doesn't.
Question - is Embley A grade?
Because a lot of the things people say Dyson doesn't do enough of, neither does/did Embley. But I'd argue Embley was definitely A grade.
My personal view is I think Dyson has the tools to do it. I think he'll improve next year. But in my view the A graders are roughly the top 25 mids in the comp (see below) - and I think Dyson will struggle to make that group.
Ant555 - A straight A student is not (necesarily) the elite of the school system. I would argue its the same for AFL. I would say A grade midfielders would be the top 10%/15%, which means if you just take clubs best 25 players it probably means around 14 => 24 A grade players across the competiton (assuming most sides have 8 => 10 midfielders in their best 25). So say the top 24 midfielders, or 3 every 2 teams. Some would have more than their fair share of course.
I would distinguish the elite from those as the very top handful of those 24 players.
Fine if you want to call good players A grade then go ahead.
What exactly is wrong with calling Judd -A and Dal Santo - B. If i worked on everyone else rating when spotting players i would be recomending a lot of A grade players....
It is not hard to work out but in this day and age people want to give high marks for everything....
Slattery_20
13 Jan 2010, 11:42
A+, and an elephant stamp for that post.