Collingwood in 2010

[Ben the Gooner]

Yes, I hate them. But not as much as the previous bunch, so there might be some objectivity here (ha).

They had three major holes in 2009 - ruck, inside mid and tall forward.

They filled the first beautifully, with one of the best in the business. The second, they either pulled off a recruiting masterpiece, and will have adequate support for an ageing Shane O'Bree, or have picked a bust with OP at pick 30. It could go either way, to the point where it's a true 50/50 proposition. The beauty of it from Collingwood's position is they have little to lose, and much to gain. However, there is still a gaping hole up forward. Cloke is going nowhere fast, Anthony is servicable, but would be a lot better with two gun forwards beside him. Rocca is gone, Brown is shit, and Reid and Rusling can both play there, but neither are fit.

It's this gap, and the fact that they have a lot of good ordinary players in the Sharrod Wellingham mould which suggests that they'll continue to be there or thereabouts, but won't quite push on. In fact, I see Adelaide and Brisbane overtaking them.

NOTE: Collingwood fans, by all means post here, but any trolls or snide comments comparing your team to Essendon will be met with red cards.

Prediction: 5-8

[muzz777]

As much as I loathe them. I think they will be much stronger than that. I expect the Luke Ball gamble to pay off, and for them to finally have a decent ruckman will make a huge difference.

2nd, and to lose in the GF to the bulldogs.

[smiddaz123]

Where do you get Reid and Rusling aren't fit from?

Cloke is still struggling with his knee apparently. His quality seasons have all been on the back of an uninterrupted pre-season, so it'll be interesting to see how he goes. He's put quality seasons together before though, so he can do it.

[The Panther]

Brown is shit

Brown's 08 was superior to Pear's 09.

[smiddaz123]

Brown's 08 was superior to Pear's 09.
Fairly sure he meant L Brown

[Ben the Gooner]

Where do you get Reid and Rusling aren't fit from?

I meant across their careers. Much like Winderlich up until this year, or Gumbleton.

Cloke is still struggling with his knee apparently. His quality seasons have all been on the back of an uninterrupted pre-season, so it'll be interesting to see how he goes. He's put quality seasons together before though, so he can do it.

07 was a great year for him, but he's not just stagnated, he's regressed since then. He's capable, as you say, but I'm far from convinced that he will next year.

Brown's 08 was superior to Pear's 09.

I warned you.

Although I just saw smiddaz's comment. Last warning. Anything along those lines is a red.

[smiddaz123]

I meant across their careers. Much like Winderlich up until this year, or Gumbleton.
Reid has really only had one significant injury off the top of my head, which was a broken foot a couple of years back. He more or less played a full season of VFL last year, with a few AFL games. The question is simply whether he is good enough to make it or not. I don't think he'll have many injury problems. Rusling is a different story.

I wouldn't include Reid in our list of potential forwards though. The club seem intent on him playing as a backman from here on in. Dawes is much more likely to be in our forward line than Reid.

Either way, I agree that a big forward is our problem. We lack any experienced KP forward on our list.

[Ben the Gooner]

Reid has really only had one significant injury off the top of my head, which was a broken foot a couple of years back. He more or less played a full season of VFL last year, with a few AFL games. The question is simply whether he is good enough to make it or not. I don't think he'll have many injury problems. Rusling is a different story.

I wouldn't include Reid in our list of potential forwards though. The club seem intent on him playing as a backman from here on in. Dawes is much more likely to be in our forward line than Reid.

Either way, I agree that a big forward is our problem. We lack any experienced KP forward on our list.

Agree with this.

[The Panther]

07 was a great year for him, but he's not just stagnated, he's regressed since then.

Cloke kicked more goals than he did in 2007 in 08 & with less support from Anthony Rocca in that year.

[mattys123]

Fair appraisal from an "outsiders" point of view, but you fail to mention the 2 biggest names that will make us a better team in 2010, and that is Sidebottom and Beams.

WCE and Sydney both showed you only need "serviceable" forwards to win a flag if you have extra ordinary strength in any one other area of the ground.

With the inclusion of Jolly and Ball (agree with the 50/50 call too) and with the guaranteed improvement of Beams and Sidebottom (Steele especially, was brilliant in the semi final) our midfield will go from "above average" to up there with the best in the league.

I just believe any preview of our chances has to mention the names Sidebottom and Beams, as they are greatest chance of us taking that "next step".

Wow, did that without having a cheap shot at Essendon, wasn't easy.:p:eek:

[Ben the Gooner]

Cloke kicked more goals than he did in 2007 in 08 & with less support from Anthony Rocca in that year.

Statistics can be used to prove anything even remotely true.

In 07 he played higher up the ground because Rocca was there, and also was targetted less times. It's very hard to argue that his 08 season was better, unless you're one of those fools who uses only statistics.

[Ben the Gooner]

Fair appraisal from an "outsiders" point of view, but you fail to mention the 2 biggest names that will make us a better team in 2010, and that is Sidebottom and Beams.

WCE and Sydney both showed you only need "serviceable" forwards to win a flag if you have extra ordinary strength in any one other area of the ground.

With the inclusion of Jolly and Ball (agree with the 50/50 call too) and with the guaranteed improvement of Beams and Sidebottom (Steele especially, was brilliant in the semi final) our midfield will go from "above average" to up there with the best in the league.

I just believe any preview of our chances has to mention the names Sidebottom and Beams, as they are greatest chance of us taking that "next step".

Wow, did that without having a cheap shot at Essendon, wasn't easy.:p:eek:

I'm not sure that these two, while they will probably improve, are ready to be the catalyst behind a good midfield becoming one of the best. How many second year midfielders are that good? Selwood is the only one I can think of.

[The Panther]

In 07 he played higher up the ground because Rocca was there, and also was targetted less times. .

John Anthony played the last 11 games soley at FF. In this period, Cloke was the CHF like he was in 2007. Rocca also played the first 6 games at FF, he started the year off in the square against Fremantle with 6 goals.

Cloke didn't alter his position up the ground in 2008 & hardly regressed.

[Brent24]

Fair call.

I think our midfield/defence combination is good enough to win us a premiership (not the best in the league, but competitive enough). Our worry is still certainly our forward line. We would need a lot to go right this season up forward to have a genuine crack. Medhurst needs to find his 08 form. Likewise Cloke with his 07 form. We really need one of Rusling or Dawes to contribute this season. Anthony will be good for 50+ goals this year, it's if he can get enough support, that is the challenge.

I don't think 2010 will be our year. We'll probably be competing for the last spot in the top 4 for mine. Sounds like a sell out, but I genuinely believe we might be another year or two away from having a serious crack.

[Ben the Gooner]

John Anthony played the last 11 games soley at FF. In this period, Cloke was the CHF like he was in 2007. Rocca also played the first 6 games at FF, he started the year off in the square against Fremantle with 6 goals.

Cloke didn't alter his position up the ground in 2008 & hardly regressed.

He's been on a downward slide since 07 although the gap between 07 and 08 is much smaller than the gap between 08 and 09.

[Smyth94]

1-4 unfortunately

[theboxmike]

Yeah i think Collingwood have a good chance at the flag this year.....sigh lol

[centrelink1]

I reckon 4th is their best target. The dogs, saints and cats are all fairly strong, stronger than Collingwood.

Imo Adelaide will finish 4th, leaving Collingwood in 5th.

[kelvin_sheedy]

4-8 for me. Their dream draw gets them 1 or 2 more wins per season which is the difference between playing finals or not most years.

They lack midfield quality which is why Malthouse rotates a lot of flankers/forward pockets through there. It gets found out when it gets a bit willy nilly.

They play a counter attacking defensive brand of football relying on the opposition to get the ball and make a mistake. I call it swarm football where they sit back and then swarm when the opposition get the ball.

They have good balance down back and I'd classify their defence second best behind the Cats.

Their midfield is no good and Pendlebury is one of those footballers that might look good statistically but has no real impact on a game.

Forward group is good collectively but struggle when an individual is required to grab hold of the game.

[yaco55]

4-8 for me. Their dream draw gets them 1 or 2 more wins per season which is the difference between playing finals or not most years.

They lack midfield quality which is why Malthouse rotates a lot of flankers/forward pockets through there. It gets found out when it gets a bit willy nilly.

They play a counter attacking defensive brand of football relying on the opposition to get the ball and make a mistake. I call it swarm football where they sit back and then swarm when the opposition get the ball.

They have good balance down back and I'd classify their defence second best behind the Cats.

Their midfield is no good and Pendlebury is one of those footballers that might look good statistically but has no real impact on a game.

Forward group is good collectively but struggle when an individual is required to grab hold of the game.

You are back with Essendon:thumbsu:

[yaco55]

Kelvin summed up quite well but i wish to add some observations.

Collingwood has an above average defence which is helped by constant midifield pressure. May have a small problem replacing Prestigiacomo in 2011.

Midfield is good ,probably closer to very good, which is helped by having many players who can rotate through this area.

Forward line is better than most give credit for but your style of play makes it difficult for the forwards.

Continually going wide will probably stop Collingwood winning a premiership. In today's modern football you need to use the corridor as much as possible which Collingwood doesn't. Collingwood is the number one kicking side in the competition but needs to increase their ratio of handballs.

The point Kelvin made about Pendlebury is close to the mark. This is not a reflection of the player, but on the playing style of Collingwood

I expect Collingwood to finish Top 6, but to win a premiership you need to replace Malthouse. He is still playing the same style of football as the WC in the 1990's, and WC was a much better team than the current Collingwood team.

[knightwheelrqr]

Yes, I hate them. But not as much as the previous bunch, so there might be some objectivity here (ha).

They had three major holes in 2009 - ruck, inside mid and tall forward.

They filled the first beautifully, with one of the best in the business. The second, they either pulled off a recruiting masterpiece, and will have adequate support for an ageing Shane O'Bree, or have picked a bust with OP at pick 30. It could go either way, to the point where it's a true 50/50 proposition. The beauty of it from Collingwood's position is they have little to lose, and much to gain. However, there is still a gaping hole up forward. Cloke is going nowhere fast, Anthony is servicable, but would be a lot better with two gun forwards beside him. Rocca is gone, Brown is shit, and Reid and Rusling can both play there, but neither are fit.

It's this gap, and the fact that they have a lot of good ordinary players in the Sharrod Wellingham mould which suggests that they'll continue to be there or thereabouts, but won't quite push on. In fact, I see Adelaide and Brisbane overtaking them.

NOTE: Collingwood fans, by all means post here, but any trolls or snide comments comparing your team to Essendon will be met with red cards.

Prediction: 5-8

Interesting read from an outside perspective.

Luke Ball is training really well and looks near 100%. He is kicking 50m easily and is running nicely which are both good signs for Collingwood. He is a good fit for our midfield and I'm very pleased to see him on board because we never had a true hard at it in and under midfielder last season which meant that against the strongest teams (Gee, St. K, Dogs) we got smashed through the midfield in the contested ball. So things should change. We always got smashed in hitouts (was 15th in the league last season or something like that), so with the addition of Jolly (near all australian form in 2009 things will change in that statistical category.

Reid and both N+L Brown are both KPBs.

Our KPF's are: JA, Cloke and Rusling. With Fraser/ Wood who will push forward for additional size to compliment the small brigade when not relieving Jolly in the ruck.

Jolly gives our forwardline allot more flexibility through rotations, as does Ball.

On Reid and Rusling not sure where you got the idea from that they were both unfit? Reid hasn't had any injury problems of late and finished the 2009 season strongly at VFL level and is beginning to start to push for senior selection. While Rusling while injury prone in the past is having a big preseason, he went to Arizona a week early and has been doing the full preseason training load no problem which is a very promising sign.

I see our defence being strong again and for our midfield to be allot stronger with the additions of Jolly and Ball. The key to our placement this year will be the development of a strong structure that "works" up forward which will be Nathan Buckley's job this season. I see our forwardline being heavily rotated with our midfield so that players such as Didak, Thomas, Davis and Fraser get plenty of time in both the midfield and up forward.

Our greatest strength as a side is our extreme depth where we have up to 33/34 players that are all starting 22 quality which is a great position to be in as a club.

I would predict a 3rd-7th position finish depending on how our forwardline structure progresses throughout the season. Still rate us behind Geelong, St Kilda and the Western Bull Dogs. But narrowly ahead of Adelaide, Brisbane and Hawthorn. From 8th down should be pretty open to whoever puts in the hard yards over the offseason.

[smiddaz123]

4-8 for me. Their dream draw gets them 1 or 2 more wins per season which is the difference between playing finals or not most years.
Are you saying we have a dream draw in 2010?

Their midfield is no good and Pendlebury is one of those footballers that might look good statistically but has no real impact on a game.
By far out most important midfielder. His work inside the packs was crucial for us. The bolded is incorrect.


Continually going wide will probably stop Collingwood winning a premiership. In today's modern football you need to use the corridor as much as possible which Collingwood doesn't.

to win a premiership you need to replace Malthouse. He is still playing the same style of football of the WC in the 1990's and WC was a much better team than the current Collingwood team.

Strongly agree on both these points.

[Kong]

Prediction: 5-7

[Godzke]

I'd give a more detailed response than this but cbf'd. Not coz it's Collingwood but just cbf'd. lol

Prediction: 3rd-6th

Always been one of the best managed clubs in terms of bringing out the best in a good but far from spectacular list.

[Spikey]

Things to end up in tears when Collingwood lose 3 games in a row and everyone wants Buckley to replace Malthouse.

[Slattery_20]

Think they'll be roundabouts again, they work well as a group without having a standout. Kinda like us but a lot, lot more consistent.

Pies ppl - what's Reid ever done ? A lot of talk about him slotting straight into CHB. Have they lost patience with him up forward, has he ripped it up in the 2s, is he a direct upgrade on Brown... ?

[jonesy86]

Think they'll be roundabouts again, they work well as a group without having a standout. Kinda like us but a lot, lot more consistent.

Pies ppl - what's Reid ever done ? A lot of talk about him slotting straight into CHB. Have they lost patience with him up forward, has he ripped it up in the 2s, is he a direct upgrade on Brown... ?

Reid was drafted as a tall forward but with Anthony becoming a FF (he was drafted as a FB) in '08 Reid trained all '09 pre-season learning to play as a tall defender and spent all year in the VFL at CHB. By the end of the season he was reading the play well and creating drive off half back getting 20-25 touches a game.

So, he has definitely shown signs, it's just a matter of learning more and putting it in action at AFL level which he should be given a good opportunity to this year.

[Slattery_20]

Cheers guys.
Will be interesting to see how (if) N Brown progresses...

[Slattery_20]

Not necessarily, Fletch won a flag in year 12, Pears held down FB pretty well for much of his 2nd year. From memory Scarlett held it down in his 2nd year. Heck, Brown showed some very nice form in his first games, just didn't do much last year.

I don't want to get into a slanging match, but I've a theory the Pies are more interested in ready-to-play youngsters. From where I'm sitting they (better than anyone) get better first & second year returns on guys like Sidebottom, Beams, Brown etc etc.
My question is, does that emphasis on early results come at the cost of less improvement later on. Lower "ceiling" as US sports callers put it.

[jade_00]

Brown's 08 was superior to Pear's 09.

Ave Kicks
Brown 08: 4.1
Pears 09: 6.8

Ave Hballs
Brown 08: 3.7
Pears 09: 8.4

Ave Marks:
Brown 08: 1.8
Pears 09: 3.1

Lucky i'm not a Mod mate, cause I definetely would've carded you just for sheer stupidity.

[smiddaz123]

Sorry, you're using amount of disposals to say Pears was better? They're defenders, you look at how often they beat their opponent.

[jade_00]

Sorry, you're using amount of disposals to say Pears was better? They're defenders, you look at how often they beat their opponent.

Unfortunately stats are the only quantifiable figure I have to compare. And Pears are so drastically superior that it is difficult to argue anything else.

And he was warned not to be a smarta$$. Most Collingwood fans that are posting here have done so in a constructive fashion, this guy wants to try bring his trolling here.

[smiddaz123]

The stats show that Pears offers more rebound. Nobody would dispute that, even without the stats.

Defensively, it shows absolutely nothing.

[Ludwig van Bertstare]

They'll once again make top 4 and all their supporters will wank about how good they are and how they're a legit chance for the premiership. Then they'll get beaten in the prelim and use the "we are still young" excuse and during the off-season The Panther, Timmy from Thomastown and a couple of others will troll Essendon on the main board as per usual.

[Lotch]

2 - 6 on the ladder.

[The Panther]

and Pears has already held Brown to zero goals in a game.

He took 10 marks & had 21 disposals though.

[smiddaz123]

0 goals, but 5 behinds. Could've easily been 3+ goal game Brown took the chances.

[Jobe Watson]

0 goals, but 5 behinds. Could've easily been 3+ goal game Brown took the chances.

Clearly that means Pears stands the mark better than anyone else in the league.


:p

[Jonesy1987]

0 goals, but 5 behinds. Could've easily been 3+ goal game Brown took the chances.

But it wasn't, hardly Pears fault Brown wanted to be selfish and keep taking pot shots from 55.

[The Panther]

But it wasn't, hardly Pears fault Brown wanted to be selfish and keep taking pot shots from 55.

Didn't Brown unselfishly pass the ball to Bradshaw to set up the last shot?

[Jonesy1987]

Didn't Brown unselfishly pass the ball to Bradshaw to set up the last shot?

Lol a desperate snap towards goal out of a pack in the dying seconds. Yep really unselfish :D:thumbsu: You're such a joke.

[Tailypo]

2007 AFL Draft Camp
20 Metre Sprint

1. David Gourdis 2.83 sec
2. Steven Gaertner 2.88 sec
3. Clayton Hinkley 2.88 sec
4. Jarrad Grant 2.89 sec
5. Brendan Whitecross 2.91 sec
6. Aaron Joseph 2.91 sec
7. Tayte Pears 2.92 sec
8. Patrick Dangerfield 2.92 sec
9. Jarrhan Jacky 2.93 sec
10. David Zaharakis 2.94 sec


So he's not exactly slow...

[smiddaz123]

2007 AFL Draft Camp
20 Metre Sprint

1. David Gourdis 2.83 sec
2. Steven Gaertner 2.88 sec
3. Clayton Hinkley 2.88 sec
4. Jarrad Grant 2.89 sec
5. Brendan Whitecross 2.91 sec
6. Aaron Joseph 2.91 sec
7. Tayte Pears 2.92 sec
8. Patrick Dangerfield 2.92 sec
9. Jarrhan Jacky 2.93 sec
10. David Zaharakis 2.94 sec


So he's not exactly slow...

Nathan Brown ran a faster 20m sprint time at the draft camp the year before from memory.

[Tailypo]

I wasn't comparing him to Nathan Brown, just responding to the comments that he isn't fast enough.

[centrelink1]

Clearly that means Pears stands the mark better than anyone else in the league.


:p

Lol. Remember chick in that GF, doing cartwheels and shit to put Micky O off.

[morebeer]

Malthouse cops a fair bit from not winning a flag but he really has not had much talent to work with. Rekon they are incredibly well drilled and coached. Each of their guys knows where to go and what to do.

I dont think they can go near Geelong or St Kilda this year due to talent and experience. They may be better next year especially if the better teams fade a bit because the Pies are still pretty young.

Dont see them in the same ballpark as Adelaide and Hawthorn in the future as far as talent goes but you know they will be hanging around at the right time of the year and having a crack.

[morebeer]

You can add Burgoyne and Hodge to that list. Thats 5 blue chippers to your one which is Didak. Thats a big head start and considering their group has already proved they can win a flag im happy to reiterate MY OPINION that there is a considerable difference in talent between the 2 lists.

Adelaide have 2 potential tall forwards in Tippett and Walker. Medium size guys like Dangerfield, Knights, Vince all coming through. Yep, their talent level is considerably higher than the Pies.

[morebeer]

Adelaide will go fine I rekon when their older guys retire. Much better than Collingwood. They just recruit better than the Pies, pretty simple, they have more talent.

Essendon beat Collingwood ANZAC day with a younger team but you wont see me making claims that we have more talent than the Pies.

[morebeer]

As far as elite level kids regarding Hawthorn, their 3 blue chippers is a fair head start on 0 blue chippers which is where Collingwood sit.

[morebeer]

Dont worry, you wont have to wait long, they will be comfortably ahead by the end of the year. You can just tell the difference between talent and solid. Go Pies though, load up on Travy Cloke for the Coleman.

[The Panther]

You can add Burgoyne and Hodge to that list. Thats 5 blue chippers to your one which is Didak. .

Pendlebury is a superior player than Burgoyne.

[The Panther]

Essendon beat Collingwood ANZAC day with a younger team but you wont see me making claims that we have more talent than the Pies.

The difference in the younger side wasn't really pronounced that day.

Collingwood's average age was 24 YR, 143 days, Essendon, 24 YR, 118 days.

The RD 14 game, Collingwood fielded a younger side than Essendon.

[Ben the Gooner]

Next off topic post from either of you gets a card.

[jade_00]

Recommend everyone gets back on topic. This is meant as a thread to discuss how Collingwood will perform in 2010. Not a pi$$ing match between Hawthorn and Collingwood fans OR a pointless discussion about who is better between Tayte Pears and Brown from Collingwood (I DARE someone to go to the polls board and give that one a crack).

For what it's worth, i'll make the same prediction this year as I did about Collingwood last year. They have a good solid list, and are a good chance of winning the flag.

Unlike some other clubs, I think they HAVE navigated the offseason quite well and proactively plugged some holes. They were certainly lacking a ruckman that could carry the load, and Jolly is that man.

Luke Ball is a quality inside midfielder every day of the week, and is only going to improve any side. Sharing that burden is an issue Essendon knows only too well and those combined players should see Collingwood win their fair share of the ball.

My major concern with Collingwood is it's forward line. Inevitably when matched up against sides equally as good, or better, having forwards that can take every opportunity presented to them is key to victory.

Whether it be a shoot out, or a tight defensive battle I am not sure Collingwood have a forward/forwards that can grab a game and take it. Cloke does not appear to be that man and Anthony seems more of a third option or pinch hitting forward then a full timer.

My prediction, somewhere between 4-8.

[The Donners]

He's been on a downward slide since 07 although the gap between 07 and 08 is much smaller than the gap between 08 and 09.

This was predicted by Brereton IIRC a couple of years ago.

[bradrowe#32]

Malthouse cops a fair bit from not winning a flag but he really has not had much talent to work with.

Malthouse has been at Collingwood since 2000, so 99% of the playing list is the ones that he chose. He has made some very poor drafting and trading mistakes, but he has also made some very good ones, especially in the last four years.

Regardless, I don't really agree with your statement that he doesn't have much talent to work with. That's just a very nasty and incorrect perception. I'll never understand that statement.

We have a tougher draw this year, but that's not a bad thing. I think we'll finish fifth or sixth.

[The Donners]

Malthouse has been at Collingwood since 2000, so 99% of the playing list is the ones that he chose. He has made some very poor drafting and trading mistakes, but he has also made some very good ones, especially in the last four years.

Regardless, I don't really agree with your statement that he doesn't have much talent to work with. That's just a very nasty and incorrect perception. I'll never understand that statement.

We have a tougher draw this year, but that's not a bad thing. I think we'll finish fifth or sixth.

Malthouse is a great coach and brings the best out of the players he has. There are some very talented players on Collingwood's list, Pendlebury, Didak etc. but the majority of the others are workman-like but boy do they do that very well, Swan, O'Bree etc.

[dave_27]

There have been some reasonable responses in here but honestly the delusion of alot of Collingwood fans I have come across atm is amusing.

One thing that is really being over played is that there window of success is still a few years of years away from opening up.

With the age of the core of the list atm Collingwoods window is NOW and unfortunately for them, just like these guys failed the past 4 years in finals they will fail again which leaves Buckley with a hefty rebuild.

Davis, Didak, Presti, Jolley, Medhurst, Fraser, Maxwell, Lockyer, Johnson, Obree will all be 30 and over in 3 years time when this supposed window is to open.

There also needs to be a reality check regarding luke ball. The belief that he is suddenly going to catapult this midfield into elite in 2010 is extraordinary. Maybe if Luke Ball gained about 10 yards of pace and depth in his kicking again he might have actually been an upgrade on Obree.

The talk of shaping a backline around Ben Reid is comical. The bloke makes Kepler Bradley look coordinated on the football field. Complete dud.

Brown should end up a good replacement for Presti though, very good one on one, disciplined and not creative.

[The Panther]

With the age of the core of the list atm Collingwoods window is NOW and unfortunately for them, .

13 of the PF side were 21 or younger & had been drafted to the club post the 05 Draft, the next youngest PF side had 2 players 21 or younger. Pendlebury was injured, which would have made it 14 of the 22.

The side, which won the 08 EF (20 of the 22 that played in the 09 PF) was the youngest side to win a final in the AFL era.

That isn't a core that is "Now"

[jade_00]

13 of the PF side were 21 or younger & had been drafted to the club post the 05 Draft, the next youngest PF side had 2 players 21 or younger. Pendlebury was injured, which would have made it 14 of the 22.

The side, which won the 08 EF (20 of the 22 that played in the 09 PF) was the youngest side to win a final in the AFL era.

That isn't a core that is "Now"

And the side that played in that PF was clearly, and I do mean CLEARLY not a match for the other three.

[The Donners]

13 of the PF side were 21 or younger & had been drafted to the club post the 05 Draft, the next youngest PF side had 2 players 21 or younger. Pendlebury was injured, which would have made it 14 of the 22.

The side, which won the 08 EF (20 of the 22 that played in the 09 PF) was the youngest side to win a final in the AFL era.

That isn't a core that is "Now"

With the exception of Pendlebury and Anthony, there are no standouts. Swan, Davis, Didak, Presti, Maxwell etc. do enough work for the younger players.

[The Panther]

With the exception of Pendlebury and Anthony, there are no standouts.

Heath Shaw is better than both, Harry O'Brien is on the cusp of being an AA player & Beams / Sidebottom are clear standouts.



Swan, Davis, Didak, Presti, Maxwell etc. do enough work for the younger players.

Swan is 25, Didak & Maxwell 26. They are yet to hit their peak years.

[Ludwig van Bertstare]

Beams won't ever be a star.

[The Donners]

Heath Shaw is better than both, Harry O'Brien is on the cusp of being an AA player & Beams / Sidebottom are clear standouts.

Swan is 25, Didak & Maxwell 26. They are yet to hit their peak years.

I thought you were talking about 21 or under.

I wouldn't call Beams a standout but agreed that Sidebottom could be.

[Zahki]

Nice thread. Interesting read to see how opposition supporters rate our list.

[lozza63]

We need more midfield run and carry to go with the inside work of Ball/O,Bree . My suggestion would be to place Shaw into the midfield, with his extra pace and dash could really hurt teams, Lockyer could be released to cover his defensive duties.
Fraser and Jolly to rotate up forward both being more than adequate near goal and difficult to match up.
Depending on who we played in the finals perhaps a GF spot could be achieved - only if injuries are kind and form is maintained.
Nevertheless we need to improve against our bogey sides St.Kilda and the Hawks for me to really get thinking about a flag - therefore 3-5 is achievable this year.

[jerry springer]

suprised the OP didnt mention Medhurst in our forward line. AA 2 season ago,forgotten already?

[loki04]

4-8 for me. Their dream draw gets them 1 or 2 more wins per season which is the difference between playing finals or not most years.

They lack midfield quality which is why Malthouse rotates a lot of flankers/forward pockets through there. It gets found out when it gets a bit willy nilly.

They play a counter attacking defensive brand of football relying on the opposition to get the ball and make a mistake. I call it swarm football where they sit back and then swarm when the opposition get the ball.

They have good balance down back and I'd classify their defence second best behind the Cats.

Their midfield is no good and Pendlebury is one of those footballers that might look good statistically but has no real impact on a game.

Forward group is good collectively but struggle when an individual is required to grab hold of the game.

As an essendon supporter with a very similar draw to us in terms of travel and what not how can you say that with a straight face?

Our draw is no more easier then Essendon's year in year out, in fact some years your team only travels 3 times un like us who always travel 4.

Overall the thread is quite interesting and good to get an outsiders view.

Personally I have us finishing 4th.

[loki04]

Think they'll be roundabouts again, they work well as a group without having a standout. Kinda like us but a lot, lot more consistent.

Pies ppl - what's Reid ever done ? A lot of talk about him slotting straight into CHB. Have they lost patience with him up forward, has he ripped it up in the 2s, is he a direct upgrade on Brown... ?

Reid has a lot of talent and has shown it as a forward in the AFL all be it a shoddy kick at goal, knows when/where to lead, is very quick, has good hands and is very agile for his size.

Apparently his kicking yips is in his head, as in u/18's he was considered a reliable kick at goal.

A full year was put into him at CHB in the VFL and he excelled not only negating but regularly getting 20+ disposals and rebounding strongly has a good field kick.

We will find out how he transfers this to the seniors this year I guess, I am confident he will live up to his draft expectations.

[ant555]

As an essendon supporter with a very similar draw to us in terms of travel and what not how can you say that with a straight face?
Our draw is no more easier then Essendon's year in year out, in fact some years your team only travels 3 times un like us who always travel 4.

Bellow are the amount of times we have traveled interstate since 1997 when Port came into the comp.

2010 3 times
2009 5 times
2008 4 times
2007 5 times
2006 4 times
2005 5 times
2004 4 times
2003 4 times
2002 5 times
2001 4 times
2000 4 times
1999 5 times
1998 2 times
1997 6 times

As you can see this year is the first year since 1998 that we have had less than 4 interstate games.
So next time you feel compelled to drop in and make some comments try and use some facts ;)

[abs_of_STEELE]

suprised the OP didnt mention Medhurst in our forward line. AA 2 season ago,forgotten already?
I think outsiders don't realise just how interrupted his 2009 PS was, therefore thinking 08 was just a one-off season. During PS he only took part in 42% of the training sessions and then adding his injury against North you can excuse him for having a bad season. So I think it's reasonable to expect that he can get back/close to his 08 form with a full PS.

Although he isn't really a tall forward.;)

[The Panther]

Bellow are the amount of times we have traveled interstate since 1997 when Port came into the comp.

2010 3 times
2009 5 times
2008 4 times
2007 5 times
2006 4 times


In the same time we've travelled 18 times & in 2010 we play 4 matches interstate, 1 more than Essendon in the same period (although we've won 12 of the 18 already played in this period.)

[dave_27]

Bellow are the amount of times we have traveled interstate since 1997 when Port came into the comp.

2010 3 times
2009 5 times
2008 4 times
2007 5 times
2006 4 times
2005 5 times
2004 4 times
2003 4 times
2002 5 times
2001 4 times
2000 4 times
1999 5 times
1998 2 times
1997 6 times

As you can see this year is the first year since 1998 that we have had less than 4 interstate games.
So next time you feel compelled to drop in and make some comments try and use some facts ;)

Also worth noting Essendon have travelled to WA twice in a season 4 times the past decade ('00 - '09) compared to just 1 time for Collingwood.

Essendon have also travelled 14 times to WA compared to just 9 for Collingwood in that same period.

[ant555]

In the same time we've travelled 18 times & in 2010 we play 4 matches interstate, 1 more than Essendon in the same period (although we've won 12 of the 18 already played in this period.)

So what , i was just pointing out the fact that we in fact hadn't had only 3 interstate trips some years as was claimed.

I am not interested in any pissing contests as i know the amount of interstate trips are generally evened out over a 4 or 5 year period.

[loki04]

Bellow are the amount of times we have traveled interstate since 1997 when Port came into the comp.

2010 3 times
2009 5 times
2008 4 times
2007 5 times
2006 4 times
2005 5 times
2004 4 times
2003 4 times
2002 5 times
2001 4 times
2000 4 times
1999 5 times
1998 2 times
1997 6 times

As you can see this year is the first year since 1998 that we have had less than 4 interstate games.
So next time you feel compelled to drop in and make some comments try and use some facts ;)

Sorry it was 2 games my bad (and 3 this coming season), still less then we have and on average it all evens out which was the point i was making.

To say Collingwood's draw is more favorable then Essendon's is laughable, they average out the same.

[morebeer]

Rekon Collingwood will win the flag this year.

They are adequately coached but Malthouse and co. really are not making the most of the extraordinary talent on the list. If they were able to fully harness the playing group they would surely be a dynasty in the Brisbane mould. Maybe even better.

Their drafting has been impeccable in recent years. Beams (who should really have won the NAB rising star) and Sidebottom will be permanent fixtures this year and form an all star midfield. The midfield is even better this year (believe it or not) by adding ex Sydney great Darren Jolley and former number 2 superdraft pick Luke Ball. Jolley will form with Josh Fraser to be a great 1 - 2 punch which will put the fear of god into Dean Cox and Nic Nat. Collingwood made short work of the hapless Saints (who were just plain lucky last year to finish above them) by getting elite clearance player and all australian Luke Ball for nothing but pick 30.

Down back they have quality tall vets in Presti and Leigh Brown. If that is not daunting enough for opposition teams then you can add the super impressive Nathan Brown and Ben Reid. Enough to give Brown / Fevola, Franklin / Roughy nightmares.

The forward line comprises copeland trophy winner Travis Cloke and the best shot for goal in the league Jack Anthony. In reserve they have the gifted Dawes and the brilliant, but unlucky Rusling.

To think they are not favourite to win the flag is mind numbing. Put ur house on em. About the only thing that can hold them back is their coach who has been known to deliberatly conspire to not win premierships.

Hopefully this preview is more to our Collingwood friends liking because the others are clearly just jealous of their success.

[Spikey]

And the presence of Nathan Buckley as assistant coach will no doubt help inspire them to the flag.

[Slattery_20]

I think outsiders don't realise just how interrupted his 2009 PS was, therefore thinking 08 was just a one-off season. During PS he only took part in 42% of the training sessions and then adding his injury against North you can excuse him for having a bad season. So I think it's reasonable to expect that he can get back/close to his 08 form with a full PS.

Although he isn't really a tall forward.;)
There comes a point when you have to appraise which is the aberration - the 1 gun consistent year, or every single other year in his career.

[The Panther]

There comes a point when you have to appraise which is the aberration - the 1 gun consistent year, or every single other year in his career.

It was the 3rd year Medhurst kicked 50 goals or more in a season.

[Slattery_20]

He stepped up a massive level in that 1 year. 50 goals maybe, but no-where near the player in terms of tackling back, working up field, and setting up goals. He was more 1-dimensional at Freo.
I can't say anything as fact, or really argue it more than that, but I'd personally be very, very surprised if he had another year anywhere near as good. Still should have some value as a small option though (not that you're short of them)

[The Panther]

He stepped up a massive level in that 1 year. 50 goals maybe, but no-where near the player in terms of tackling back, working up field, and setting up goals. He was more 1-dimensional at Freo.


It doesn't change the fact that a 50 goal season from a small forward alongside Pavilich is an elite year, 3 times Medhurst has achieved that feat.

[Slattery_20]

It doesn't change the fact that a 50 goal season from a small forward alongside Pavilich is an elite year, 3 times Medhurst has achieved that feat.
I don't want to say you're completely wrong , but you're completely wrong. I can only see 1 50 goal year at Freo.
In 08 he had 140 more touches, 70 more marks, 25 more tackles and 9 more BL votes than his previous best years.
I'm going to stick with 2008 being the aberration, the year at a higher level.
You are free to disagree.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-collingwood-magpies--paul-medhurst

[ant555]

Thats all i see as well 2 50 goal years , 1 40 goal year , 1 30 goal years and a few 20 goal years.

[stay true]

Ok, so Medhurst isn't elite after all.

[Slattery_20]

Thats all i see as well 2 50 goal years , 1 40 goal year , 1 30 goal years and a few 20 goal years.
It's like Luke Ball - last year he was a slow hard-nut who couldn't kick... now he's a class gun all-australian again.
Plenty of silk purses @ pieland.
Andrew Welsh was a gun for about half a week when they thought they were getting him.

[Trav0]

if presti can hold together the backline again, they could probably still finish top 6, however i doubt that a pre-lim will be reached with the crows and lions probably being able to improve a lot more than the pies!!

[daffo]

Regarding Cloke
Statistics can be used to prove anything even remotely true.

In 07 he played higher up the ground because Rocca was there, and also was targetted less times. It's very hard to argue that his 08 season was better, unless you're one of those fools who uses only statistics.

Totally agree with Cloke's best year being 07. You don't have much faith in him improving a lot. 09 was a shocking year for Cloke and I doubt he even wanted to be on the field half the time. He will be turning 22-23 this year and although he has had some minor injuries I expect him to be right up there again for the pies.

Collingwood should be a lock in for top four. Jolley will help them to no end, freeing up Fraser to move forward. Injury is the only thing stopping them from the top four.

Gee I hope we beat them again on Anzac Day.

[Trav0]

cloke was obviously injured last year, so at a young age he should be able to come back, what i think is his biggest problem is being able to perform under pressure, you need to be able to rely on your FF and CHF to win you games by kicking goals when it matters, i reckon his goal acuracy would be around 20% if it is a close game!! but he shows he has great ability when the game isnt so close. i really fear for the anzac day if he can actually get his mind right and kick big game winning goals!!!!

[BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!]

piss off malthouse and his shit game plan sack him NOW and replace him with bucks and they will win the flag

[Trav0]

piss off malthouse and his shit game plan sack him NOW and replace him with bucks and they will win the flag

there is only 1 thing good about collingwood winning the flag, and that is we wont be the last team to give them one!!! (only if the GF isnt against us!!)

[Kong]

piss off malthouse and his shit game plan sack him NOW and replace him with bucks and they will win the flaghttp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/matthewbrown/6p5sxzcjk0.gif

[Bonuspoints]

Clearly that means Pears stands the mark better than anyone else in the league.


:p


gold mate - top call.

I'd say for us we'll be about the same as last year. I think it'll be tougher to crack the top 4 this year as you'd expect the Lions and Crows to be stronger outfits this year and the Saints and Cats to be top 2 again. Who knows what the Hawks will be. Can they return to 08 dominance or fizzle again. Should be a good year of competitive footy.

Our fortunes our in the hands of our forwards. I expect Jolly's impact to improve our mids output, which in turn will take pressure of our defenders. I still think we need some more class in the middle, but its our forwards that will determine our fate. I agree with the bomber posters that pointed to MMs style as hindering our forwards, but its been that way for over a decade now so they have to perform. Rocca not only endured it, but did well, so I don't see it as an excuse. Definitely see a goal square strong marking hole as a need for us.

[Slattery_20]

I am in disbelief.
A pies fan with a clue.
*shakes head*.