Would Ponting be selected in the Aussie All time 11

[Natia9]

Ponting will finish as aussie all time run scorer and may even score most runs in the world. but if u were to put ponting into an aussie all time 11 we wont fit as there is bradman in position 3. Will they siply slot him in 4???? even tho he neva scored runs in that position???

[King Elvis]

You asked;

Would Ponting be selected in the Aussie All time 11

And then answered;

Ponting will finish as aussie all time run scorer and may even score most runs in the world.

[sudzz]

This is very hypothetical but I dont think Ponting should make it to any Aussie all time XI, don't get me wrong- he is probably the best batsman in Australia over the past 10-12 years (much more than the Gilly's and Hayden's of the world and even Langer- the one that came close was Martyn).

If I had a choice wont select him because of everything else that includes his leadership, his so called aggressiveness which borders almost on cheating etc,

I know this is not a fair rating of his batting skills but the other aspects over shadow his skill levels\.

[King Elvis]

This is very hypothetical but I dont think Ponting should make it to any Aussie all time XI, don't get me wrong- he is probably the best batsman in Australia over the past 10-12 years (much more than the Gilly's and Hayden's of the world and even Langer- the one that came close was Martyn).

If I had a choice wont select him because of everything else that includes his leadership, his so called aggressiveness which borders almost on cheating etc,

I know this is not a fair rating of his batting skills but the other aspects over shadow his skill levels\.

That is flat out insane.

[sudzz]

I changed that post as it was a bit childish, but the bolded comment is ridiculous.
I can go into a lot of details but I don't see it as serving any purpose, but suffice to say that a Waugh or a Taylor or a Border would have never done things that he did or supported of his team mates.

Can you think of any other Aussie captain with these many controversies across the entire cricketing world -not one team has been spared...

[The Octopus]

Id have him at 4 or 5.

His record as a captain is outstanding. Few peers worldwide. He just keeps on winning.

[Foreign Legion]

Well I 'll have a bash at an all-time Aussie 11 +1
Ponsford
Hayden
Bradman - easiest pick
Ponting
G.Chappell
S.Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
Lindwall
McGrath
12th man - Keith Miller - could play in any position really

[krisholio14]

He is most certainly in the all time Australian XI.

Absolutely no doubts about it.

[placebo]

Anyone that wouldn't have him in the team is insane.

[wce4premiership]

Yes he would, all those points mentioned seem to be a bit silly.

[Adelaide Hawk]

I think I could find a spot for Ponting behind Bradman at 3, and Chappell at 4. Would slot in very nicely in the 5 spot.

And as for sudzz, only a newbie but has the potential for Bay 13 Hall of Fame status. Pure dribble mate.

[The Falcon Strike]

I think I could find a spot for Ponting behind Bradman at 3, and Chappell at 4. Would slot in very nicely in the 5 spot.

And as for sudzz, only a newbie but has the potential for Bay 13 Hall of Fame status. Pure dribble mate.

he'd probably slip into 5 - would be fighting with the likes of border, harvey and waugh.

[damochandler]

it's hard to put in the side. bradman is an absolute lock at no.3. so he might slot in at no.6 where he started his career. steve waugh might have a say on that though

[The Falcon Strike]

This is very hypothetical but I dont think Ponting should make it to any Aussie all time XI, don't get me wrong- he is probably the best batsman in Australia over the past 10-12 years (much more than the Gilly's and Hayden's of the world and even Langer- the one that came close was Martyn).

If I had a choice wont select him because of everything else that includes his leadership, his so called aggressiveness which borders almost on cheating etc,

I know this is not a fair rating of his batting skills but the other aspects over shadow his skill levels\.


pick your top 6 holier than thou batsmen then

[sudzz]

Guys, Iam new here and clearly from my posts you must have made out Iam not from Australia and just as you are iam entitled to my opinions and on a forum like this debates can happen only if they are expressed.

I can well understand that my remarks about Ponting are not well received and probably from your points of view rightly so, from where I stand I dont see it like you guys see it.

Having had said that as anyone thats read my first post in this thread can see I have stated that he is probably the best batsman on show currently and consistently over a long time now and he has had his share of great attacks and and some mediocre one therefore the answer to the question of all time XI containing Ponting its really no brainer and its yes unequivocally.

Does it mean I have changed my opinion or my believe any different on those other issues , so far there has been no reason to do so.

[The Falcon Strike]

Guys, Iam new here and clearly from my posts you must have made out Iam not from Australia and just as you are iam entitled to my opinions and on a forum like this debates can happen only if they are expressed.

I can well understand that my remarks about Ponting are not well received and probably from your points of view rightly so, from where I stand I dont see it like you guys see it.

Having had said that as anyone thats read my first post in this thread can see I have stated that he is probably the best batsman on show currently and consistently over a long time now and he has had his share of great attacks and and some mediocre one therefore the answer to the question of all time XI containing Ponting its really no brainer and its yes unequivocally.

Does it mean I have changed my opinion or my believe any different on those other issues , so far there has been no reason to do so.

whether you are from here or not is irrelevant - if you don't think he'd make our greatest team - pick the 6 batsmen ahead of him that meet your holistic criteria of batting elitism

[krisholio14]

Guys, Iam new here and clearly from my posts you must have made out Iam not from Australia and just as you are iam entitled to my opinions and on a forum like this debates can happen only if they are expressed.

I can well understand that my remarks about Ponting are not well received and probably from your points of view rightly so, from where I stand I dont see it like you guys see it.

Having had said that as anyone thats read my first post in this thread can see I have stated that he is probably the best batsman on show currently and consistently over a long time now and he has had his share of great attacks and and some mediocre one therefore the answer to the question of all time XI containing Ponting its really no brainer and its yes unequivocally.

Does it mean I have changed my opinion or my believe any different on those other issues , so far there has been no reason to do so.

Dude, i'm an Aussie who hates the Australian cricket team so much I follow Sri Lanka instead, and have done for 25 years. And have been bagged plenty on this board for it over the years.

And even I reckon you're dribbling shit.

Ponting on talent and statistics alone well and truly books a place in that side. As i've said on another thread, in my 30 odd years of watching cricket, only Greg Chappell can be mentioned in the same breath as him.

As far as the allegations you've made as to his actions as a skipper/player, one, they are completely unfounded and/or incorrect, and two, even if they were to be true, name me a time when the Australian side hasn't had those sorts of controversies hovering around them? Ian Chappell, Greg Chappell, Allan Border and Steve Waugh weren't opposed to pushing the spirit of the game to the hilt in order to get results.

Unless youre 12 years old, in which case you've got bugger all to contribute to this thread in the first place, you would be well aware that this Aussie side is no better or worse behaved than any other in the last 30 or so years.

[xyakks]

It's a hard team to put together. Different era's in the game where batting and bowling were much different than they are today. This would be my alltime Australian XI although I'd probably swap McGrath or Spofforth into the side for Lindwall if the team was actually going to play.

1-W. Ponsford - Opener
2-R. Simpson - Opener
3-D. Bradman - Captain
4-G. Chappel
5-R. Ponting
6-R.N. Harvey
7-A. Gilchrist - KPR
8-K. Miller - RFM Allrounder
9-R. Lindwall - RF
10-A. Davidson - LFM
11-W. O'Reilly - LS

12th Man - F. Spofforth - RF


Unlucky batters who could have been slotted in
S. Waugh
M. Hayden
A. Border
K. Walters
S. McCabe
M. Hayden
W. Brown (Great oppener who lost his career due to WWII)
W. Lawry
A. Hassett
A. Morris

Bowlers also unlucky
H Ironmonger - LM
H. Trumble - OS
G. McGrath - RFM

[King Elvis]

It's a hard team to put together. Different era's in the game where batting and bowling were much different than they are today. This would be my alltime Australian XI although I'd probably swap McGrath or Spofforth into the side for Lindwall if the team was actually going to play.

1-W. Ponsford - Opener
2-R. Simpson - Opener
3-D. Bradman - Captain
4-G. Chappel
5-R. Ponting
6-R.N. Harvey
7-A. Gilchrist - KPR
8-K. Miller - RFM Allrounder
9-R. Lindwall - RF
10-A. Davidson - LFM
11-W. O'Reilly - LS

12th Man - F. Spofforth - RF

Bowlers also unlucky
H Ironmonger - Left Arm LS
H. Trumble - OS
G. McGrath - RFM

http://www.topnews.in/sports/files/shane-warne.jpg

[xyakks]

http://www.topnews.in/sports/files/shane-warne.jpg

O'Reilly was pretty damn handy as well, people shouldn't forget. Not to mention he shared bowling time with Grimmett :p

Trumble was also so influential that during his time as a player he was the face of Australian cricket.

In the end, over 130+ years of cricket we've only produced something like 6 or 7 world class spinners. Just goes to show how rare they are :)

[Mancey]

Warne would be the second easiest selection after the Don mate.

As for the OP, Ponting is unquestionably in the best 11. Really the Don might be a bit vulnerable at number 3 these days, he doesn't move as well as he once did. Might pay to give the No 3 to Punt and drop Bradman to 4 or 5 to protect him a bit i reckon, he's earnt it

[crownie]

3.Bradman
4.Ponting
5.Chappell
6.Border

not that hard to work out really.

[King Elvis]

3.Bradman
4.Ponting
5.Chappell
6.Border

not that hard to work out really.

Would be interesting to see what the XI would be if it was done purely on statistics - but I guess you'd need to do an average for the period they played in to give them context.

Mine would be, and I'm mid 20s so I know it's not given enough merit to some old timers, but;

Hayden
Ponsford
Bradman
Ponting
Chappell
Border/Waugh
Gilchrist
Miller
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

I put Punter at #4 because he's shown that he can be one of the best counter-punchers in the game, but he can still grind one out when need be.

Ponsford I've obviously never seen, but based on reputation, he's there.

Despite being heavily built, Ponsford was quick on his feet and renowned as one of the finest ever players of spin bowling. His bat, much heavier than the norm and nicknamed "Big Bertha", allowed him to drive powerfully and he possessed a strong cut shot. However, critics questioned his ability against fast bowling, and the hostile short-pitched English bowling in the Bodyline series of 1932–33 was a contributing factor in his early retirement from cricket a year and a half later.[2] Ponsford also represented his state and country in baseball, and credited the sport with improving his cricketing skills.

Sounds like the Hayden of his time - flat track bully? ;)

Alternatively, I think you could drop an Opener and put Ponting there, I think he'd perform there. If that's the case, you slot AB/Waugh both in, and I think they have to be there.

The rest speak for themselves I think - Warne/DK/McGrath/Miller do the bulk of the bowling, and assuming we're being a bit flexible here, let's assume that Waugh and Border can still bowl pretty well.

Captain I'd probably have to go Border due to his strength of will and the path he set us down. Ponting (VC).

[Adelaide Hawk]

1 Arthur Morris
2 Matthew Hayden
3 Don Bradman
4 Greg Chappell
5 Ricky Ponting
6 Keith Miller
7 Adam Gilchrist
8 Shane Warne
9 Clarrie Grimmett
10 Dennis Lillee
11 Glenn McGrath
12th Allan Border

It would be interesting to watch Don Bradman captaining this team which has many players who responded to more aggressive styles of leadership. Would prefer Ian Chappell or Mark Taylor to captain the team, but couldn't find a spot for them.

[Selective Retention]

Not listing Warne is taking being "different" to a whole new level. Not even a mention in the unlucky list, who's picking the team, I reckon even Gilchrist would slot him in.

[aussie1st]

You find a place for class players and class players are adaptable. Ponting starting his career at 6 so its not like he hasn't moved around in the order before. If you can bat 3 you can bat anywhere.

[crownie]

1 Arthur Morris
2 Matthew Hayden
3 Don Bradman
4 Greg Chappell
5 Ricky Ponting
6 Keith Miller
7 Adam Gilchrist
8 Shane Warne
9 Clarrie Grimmett
10 Dennis Lillee
11 Glenn McGrath
12th Allan Border

It would be interesting to watch Don Bradman captaining this team which has many players who responded to more aggressive styles of leadership. Would prefer Ian Chappell or Mark Taylor to captain the team, but couldn't find a spot for them.

i dont see how playing 2 leg spinners would work as Warne would bowl from one end all day on any kind of pitch, and if you bowl the other Leg spinner then one of McGrath,Lillee or Miller are doing nothing for most of the game.

also batting Miller at 6 does make the batting thin espically if they were to play against a Windies best 11.

[Adelaide Hawk]

i dont see how playing 2 leg spinners would work as Warne would bowl from one end all day on any kind of pitch, and if you bowl the other Leg spinner then one of McGrath,Lillee or Miller are doing nothing for most of the game.

also batting Miller at 6 does make the batting thin espically if they were to play against a Windies best 11.

2 legspinners worked fine when O'Reilly and Grimmett bowled in tandem, Australia were almost unbreatable when they did. It's not all about quick bowlers you know.

And you really have to be joking about Miller at 6 making the batting thin.

[Pykie]

You find a place for class players and class players are adaptable. Ponting starting his career at 6 so its not like he hasn't moved around in the order before. If you can bat 3 you can bat anywhere.


QFT.


Ponsford
Hayden
Bradman
Ponting
Chapel
Border
Gilchrist
Miller
Warne
Lillee
McGrath


Good luck bowling that side out.

As a bowler, just about every combination of batsmen would scare you.

If the two dominators, Hayden and Ponsford didn't take you to the cleaners, the Don was next.

Ponting and Chappel is just about the dream middle order combination you could ever think of.

With Miller and Gilchrist to take did your grave for you.

The pace attack is crafty.

Averaging 22/23/21 respectively, then you have Warne :D

[The Falcon Strike]

i dont see how playing 2 leg spinners would work as Warne would bowl from one end all day on any kind of pitch, and if you bowl the other Leg spinner then one of McGrath,Lillee or Miller are doing nothing for most of the game.

also batting Miller at 6 does make the batting thin espically if they were to play against a Windies best 11.


it's going to come down to whether you are picking the best X1 players or a best X1 team.

The 1st can be assessed by a player's performance over a career - the second would need some further premises like opposition, pitch conditions etc etc

Perhaps the standard premise could be a home test at the MCG or an away test at Lords

[King Elvis]

I'd make it an Ashes home and Ashes away series; make'em earn it ;)

[Pykie]

**** the ashes.


The only side with a snowflakes, and they would go close.


Haynes
Greenidge
Headley
Lara
V.Richards
Sobers
Dujon
Marshall
Garner
Holding
Ambrose



Ambrose/Garner vs Hayden/Ponsford would be fun to watch.

[bigburger]

Hayden
Ponsford
Bradman
Ponting
Chappell
Border/Waugh
Gilchrist
Miller
Warne
Lillee
McGrath

Thats a perfect team imo. I would definately have Border well in front of Waugh though but whoever is selected out of the two would be skipper with Bradman as VC.

P.S I reckon Mark Taylor is the best captain I've seen from any side (besides the great man Shane Warne who wouldn't even be considered anyway. Tactically brilliant and had the balls to match it. If he was a better player he'd be close to making this side.

[The Falcon Strike]

Thats a perfect team imo. I would definately have Border well in front of Waugh though but whoever is selected out of the two would be skipper with Bradman as VC.

P.S I reckon Mark Taylor is the best captain I've seen from any side (besides the great man Shane Warne who wouldn't even be considered anyway. Tactically brilliant and had the balls to match it. If he was a better player he'd be close to making this side.


reckon it leaves us a bowler short - if we are trying to dismiss that WI XI

[King Elvis]

reckon it leaves us a bowler short - if we are trying to dismiss that WI XI

I think it'd be alright, McGrath/Warne can obviously bowl marathon spells, and with Warney there, you just need to rotate the quicks around him.

Plus, Border/Waugh, fitness/injury permitting, were both handy part-timers if required,.

[The Falcon Strike]

I think it'd be alright, McGrath/Warne can obviously bowl marathon spells, and with Warney there, you just need to rotate the quicks around him.

Plus, Border/Waugh, fitness/injury permitting, were both handy part-timers if required,.

a young steve waugh perhaps - border was a trundler

it's a great hypothetical!

[xyakks]

Warne would be the second easiest selection after the Don mate.

As for the OP, Ponting is unquestionably in the best 11. Really the Don might be a bit vulnerable at number 3 these days, he doesn't move as well as he once did. Might pay to give the No 3 to Punt and drop Bradman to 4 or 5 to protect him a bit i reckon, he's earnt it

O'Reilly deserves a spot. Absolute superstar who had his career shortened by World War II.

The thing that worries me is that nobody seems to even know who Allan Davidson is not to mention I can only see 1 other for Ray Lindwall and no one's mentioned Spofforth! :eek::(

[crownie]

O'Reilly deserves a spot. Absolute superstar who had his career shortened by World War II.

The thing that worries me is that nobody seems to even know who Allan Davidson is not to mention I can only see 1 other for Ray Lindwall and no one's mentioned Spofforth! :eek::(

probaly for the fact Lille and McGrath exist.

[crownie]

it's going to come down to whether you are picking the best X1 players or a best X1 team.

The 1st can be assessed by a player's performance over a career - the second would need some further premises like opposition, pitch conditions etc etc

Perhaps the standard premise could be a home test at the MCG or an away test at Lords

for me its picking the best team suited to play on any pitch in the world hence why i think picking 2 Leg Spinners is going to leave you with atleast one bowler doing nothing every game as one Spinner will be either over bowled or under bowled.

[trevorbyers]

Number 3 in my all-time XI anyday of the week.

12,381 runs @ 42 plus 28 hundreds & 73 fifties at a strike rate of 80 odd.

This really is a stupid thread! :thumbsu:

[King Elvis]

O'Reilly deserves a spot. Absolute superstar who had his career shortened by World War II.

The thing that worries me is that nobody seems to even know who Allan Davidson is not to mention I can only see 1 other for Ray Lindwall and no one's mentioned Spofforth! :eek::(

15 doesn't go into 11 mate, there are plenty of guys with very good claims to a birth, but the dominance of certain players (Bradman, Ponting, Warne, McGrath, Gilchrist) means they demand a spot.

[DoubleO7]

Number 3 in my all-time XI anyday of the week.

12,381 runs @ 42 plus 28 hundreds & 73 fifties at a strike rate of 80 odd.

This really is a stupid thread! :thumbsu:
I believe they're referring to Test's, not ODI's.

[Blues_Man]

a young steve waugh perhaps - border was a trundler

it's a great hypothetical!

Did Waugh ever take 11 wickets in a test match ??

Border is a much better all rounder than Steve Waugh ..better bat, better bowler, and better fielder.

As for the OP, Ponting would walk into any best Aussie 11...only an idiot would consider omitting him.

[pacemaker]

So hard to pick the Aussie XI

I would have him in the 11, but not at 3. Probably at 5

[JimDocker]

142 matches
11 859 runs
average 55.67
100s - 39
50s - 51


I am an Englishman that has problems with Ponting's captaincy at times but he is an automatic choice in an all time World eleven with his record and his ability to score the runs in all conditions.

[The Falcon Strike]

Did Waugh ever take 11 wickets in a test match ??

Border is a much better all rounder than Steve Waugh ..better bat, better bowler, and better fielder.

As for the OP, Ponting would walk into any best Aussie 11...only an idiot would consider omitting him.

Michael Bevan has a 10 wicket haul as well - i'd hardly call him an allrounder

Michael Clarke has figures of 6/9

Any batsmen can have a lucky break - the reality is - neither are all-rounders, they just trundle at best.

Before our current crop - the only quality batsmen we have had in a long while that could actually bowl well was Tom Moody.

[Blues_Man]

Michael Bevan has a 10 wicket haul as well - i'd hardly call him an allrounder

Michael Clarke has figures of 6/9

Any batsmen can have a lucky break - the reality is - neither are all-rounders, they just trundle at best.

Before our current crop - the only quality batsmen we have had in a long while that could actually bowl well was Tom Moody.

And you think Tom Moody was a quality batsman ? fmd :rolleyes:

The bloke was pretty much a average state level slogger.

[The Falcon Strike]

And you think Tom Moody was a quality batsman ? fmd :rolleyes:

The bloke was pretty much a average state level slogger.

yeah - good call.......

[xyakks]

probaly for the fact Lille and McGrath exist.

G. McGrath: 123 Matches 1993-2007
641 Runs @ 7.37
563 Wickets @ 21.64 R/R 2.5po S/R 51.95

D. Lille: 70 Matches 1971-1984
905 Runs @ 13.71
355 Wickets @ 23.92 R/R 2.76po S/R 52.02

-

A. Davidson: 44 Matches 1953-1963
1,328 Runs @ 24.59
186 Wickets @ 20.53 R/R 1.98po S/R 62.30

R. Lindwall: 61 Matches 1946-1960
1,502 Runs @ 21.15
228 Wickets @ 23.03 R/R 2.31po S/R 59.87

[THRILLHO]

Yep, that confirms it for me. Lock Lillee and McGrath in. Look at those strikerates! Phenomenal.

[courtjester]

It's a very hard question to answer. I would say yes, depending how I selected my team.

If I went with 6 bats, a keeper, and 4 bowlers, I'd have:

1. Bill Ponsford
2. Arthur Morris
3. Don Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Ricky Ponting
6. Allan Border
7. Ian Healy/Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Alan Davidson
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath

If I wanted an all-rounder at 6, allowing two spinners to play, it might change to:

1. Bill Ponsford
2. Arthur Morris
3. Don Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Allan Border
6. Keith Miller
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Dennis Lillee
10. Bill O'Reilly
11. Glenn McGrath

I chose Border over Ponting in the second team because Border is sort of an underrated player. He had an great average in a time of outstanding bowlers. Marshall, Ambrose, Garner, Imran, Wasim, Waqar, Botham, Hadlee etc etc. I'd suggest that if Border had batted in Ponting's era, he'd average 60+. It takes nothing away from Ponting, but I rate Border slightly higher based on the era he played in and the way he played.

* For interests sake, the touring party would be....

1. Bill Ponsford
2. Arthur Morris
3. Don Bradman
4. Greg Chappell
5. Ricky Ponting
6. Allan Border
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Shane Warne
9. Alan Davidson
10. Dennis Lillee
11. Glenn McGrath
12. Keith Miller
13. Bill O'Reilly
14. Ian Healy
15. Ray Lindwall
16. Stan McCabe

[xyakks]

Yep, that confirms it for me. Lock Lillee and McGrath in. Look at those strikerates! Phenomenal.

These guys would wet your whistle then :P

F. Spofforth: 18 Matches 1877-1887
94 wickets @ 18.41 R/Rpo 2.48 S/R 44.52

Shoaib Akhtar: 46 Macthes 1997-2007
178 wickets @ 25.70 R/Rpo 3.37 S/R 45.75

Jermaine Lawson: 13 Matches 2002-2005
51 Wickets @ 29.65 R/Rpo 3.85 S/R 46.35

Mohammad Asif: 17 Matches 2005-
83 Wickets @ 23.20 R/Rpo 2.96 S/R 47.04

Gary Gilmour: 15 Matches 1973-1977
54 Wickets @ 26.04 R/Rpo 3.17 S/R 49.28

Darren Gough: 58 Matches 1994-2003
229 Wickets @ 28.40 R/Rpo 3.3 S/R 51.61

Brett Lee: 76 Matches 1999-
310 Wickets @ 30.82 R/Rpo 3.47 S/R 53.33

Mitchell Johnson: 32 Matches 2007-
143 Wickets @ 28.45 R/Rpo 3.21 S/R 53.24

Jeff Thomson: 51 Matches 1972-1985
200 Wickets @ 28.01 R/Rpo 3.19 S/R 52.68

M. Morkel: 21 Matches 2006-
74 Wickets @ 31.47 S/R 53.82

Chris Cairns: 62 Matches 1989-2004
218 Wickets @ 29.40 S/R 53.66

D. Steyn: 36 Matches 2004-
185 Wickets @ 23.71 S/R 39.94

W. Younis: 87 Matches 1989-2003
373 Wickets @ 23.56 S/R 43.50

M. Marshall: 81 Matches 1978-1991
376 Wickets @ 20.95 S/R 46.77

A. Donald: 72 Matches 1992-2002
330 Wickets @ 22.25 S/R 47.03

F. Trueman: 67 Matches 1952-1965
307 Wickets @ 21.58 S/R 49.44

R. Hadlee S/R 50.51
J. Garner S/R 50.87
M. Holding S/R 50.92

I guess that means "The Deamon" Spofforth should be in the side then. He is the one responsible for the Ashes with his unbelievable match winning performance in August 1882 at the Oval aaaaaaaaaand a S/R of 44! :eek: :p

[crownie]

could of sworn this was a Aussie all 11 side......

and anyway some of the bowlers are nearly going at 30 runs a wicket meaning batsman enjoyed their bowling a bit as well unlike for the majority of McGrath and Lillees careers.

Davidsons stats are really impressive but most would choose Lillee for his pace and McGrath for his accuracy over him and as someone said some very good players will miss out.

[The Falcon Strike]

I guess that means "The Deamon" Spofforth should be in the side then. He is the one responsible for the Ashes with his unbelievable match winning performance in August 1882 at the Oval aaaaaaaaaand a S/R of 44! :eek: :p

arguably he should be - however assessing bowling records with uncovered pitches to those with covered pitches is chalk and cheese

[xyakks]

arguably he should be - however assessing bowling records with uncovered pitches to those with covered pitches is chalk and cheese

Considering Grace is a walk up start to any England XI then Spofforth should be there or there abouts in any Australian XI. The 2 best players of the 1800's shouldn't be ruled out simply because they played in the era that they did. Maybe when we draw up Australian XI's we should draw up teams as pre-WWI, pre-WWII, pre-World Series Cricket and post-World Series Cricket. That would eliminate the need to rule out players simply because they played in the wrong era.

[The Falcon Strike]

Considering Grace is a walk up start to any England XI then Spofforth should be there or there abouts in any Australian XI. The 2 best players of the 1800's shouldn't be ruled out simply because they played in the era that they did. Maybe when we draw up Australian XI's we should draw up teams as pre-WWI, pre-WWII, pre-World Series Cricket and post-World Series Cricket. That would eliminate the need to rule out players simply because they played in the wrong era.

I wouldn't have grace as a walk up start - he was a showman yes - but as a cricketer his records even amongst his contemporaries isn't that great.

I had Spofforth in my Ashes X1 - along with Barnes, however - it is something assessed purely on stats obviously.

When you assess the modern players - you get to know more than just their results. For example - Steve Wuagh has a great average - but failed in the top order where the heat really is. Gilchrist ended up averaging under 50 - but i'd still pick him over Sangkarra and Flower. Langer ended up with a better average - but i'd still pick David Boon

[crownie]

Considering Grace is a walk up start to any England XI then Spofforth should be there or there abouts in any Australian XI. The 2 best players of the 1800's shouldn't be ruled out simply because they played in the era that they did. Maybe when we draw up Australian XI's we should draw up teams as pre-WWI, pre-WWII, pre-World Series Cricket and post-World Series Cricket. That would eliminate the need to rule out players simply because they played in the wrong era.

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/current/story/magazine/alltime.html?site_area=1965

[xyakks]

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/current/story/magazine/alltime.html?site_area=1965

Kevin Peitersen has played 4 and a bit years of Test cricket and he's in their All-Time XI?

Grace's stats were the best of his time. They took a bit of a hit towards the end of his 44 years of first class cricket, but then again he was 60 year old :P

[The Falcon Strike]

Kevin Peitersen has played 4 and a bit years of Test cricket and he's in their All-Time XI?

Grace's stats were the best of his time. They took a bit of a hit towards the end of his 44 years of first class cricket, but then again he was 60 year old :P


I'm talking test cricket - of which there were better bats in his own team.

[King Elvis]

Kevin Peitersen has played 4 and a bit years of Test cricket and he's in their All-Time XI?


And a South African! ;)

[crownie]

Kevin Peitersen has played 4 and a bit years of Test cricket and he's in their All-Time XI?



yes i couldnt believe it either

[krisholio14]

yes i couldnt believe it either

Gimme David Gower over KP any day of the week.

[Dipper]

Well I 'll have a bash at an all-time Aussie 11 +1
Ponsford
Hayden
Bradman - easiest pick
Ponting
G.Chappell
S.Waugh
Gilchrist
Warne
Lillee
Lindwall
McGrath
12th man - Keith Miller - could play in any position really

You can't leabe out Keith Miller surely, this bloke was genuinely quick, bowled inspired spells (read it said that if he was a mug with the bat he would have been the greatest bowler of his era) & he was a destructive batsman.

You've gotta be brave, pick 5 batsmen & go for the throat.

As an aside, Hayden might have the stats but he was weak against the swinging ball in England, don't think he deserves to be with those others.

Unlike most alltime sides that would be picked for every country (with the exception of the Windies) Australia finds it easier to pick absolutely top notch quicks than the batsmen.

With the exception of Bradman, England could arguably put out a better top top 5/6 than Australia but couldn't get near that fast bowling attack.

[Dipper]

These guys would wet your whistle then :P

F. Spofforth: 18 Matches 1877-1887
94 wickets @ 18.41 R/Rpo 2.48 S/R 44.52

Shoaib Akhtar: 46 Macthes 1997-2007
178 wickets @ 25.70 R/Rpo 3.37 S/R 45.75

Jermaine Lawson: 13 Matches 2002-2005
51 Wickets @ 29.65 R/Rpo 3.85 S/R 46.35

Mohammad Asif: 17 Matches 2005-
83 Wickets @ 23.20 R/Rpo 2.96 S/R 47.04

Gary Gilmour: 15 Matches 1973-1977
54 Wickets @ 26.04 R/Rpo 3.17 S/R 49.28

Darren Gough: 58 Matches 1994-2003
229 Wickets @ 28.40 R/Rpo 3.3 S/R 51.61

Brett Lee: 76 Matches 1999-
310 Wickets @ 30.82 R/Rpo 3.47 S/R 53.33

Mitchell Johnson: 32 Matches 2007-
143 Wickets @ 28.45 R/Rpo 3.21 S/R 53.24

Jeff Thomson: 51 Matches 1972-1985
200 Wickets @ 28.01 R/Rpo 3.19 S/R 52.68

M. Morkel: 21 Matches 2006-
74 Wickets @ 31.47 S/R 53.82

Chris Cairns: 62 Matches 1989-2004
218 Wickets @ 29.40 S/R 53.66

D. Steyn: 36 Matches 2004-
185 Wickets @ 23.71 S/R 39.94

W. Younis: 87 Matches 1989-2003
373 Wickets @ 23.56 S/R 43.50

M. Marshall: 81 Matches 1978-1991
376 Wickets @ 20.95 S/R 46.77

A. Donald: 72 Matches 1992-2002
330 Wickets @ 22.25 S/R 47.03

F. Trueman: 67 Matches 1952-1965
307 Wickets @ 21.58 S/R 49.44

R. Hadlee S/R 50.51
J. Garner S/R 50.87
M. Holding S/R 50.92

I guess that means "The Deamon" Spofforth should be in the side then. He is the one responsible for the Ashes with his unbelievable match winning performance in August 1882 at the Oval aaaaaaaaaand a S/R of 44! :eek: :p

If you're gonna post all these blokes then why not Sydney Barnes:

Tests 27 wickets189 best inn 9/103 best match17/159 av16.43 sr41.6