View Full Version : Troy Wilson's Career
Like most Eagles fans, over the last couple of weeks I've wondered if Willow's time is up, but increasingly I don't think we've seen the last of Porno.
Over the last few weeks he's kicked pretty big bags in the WAFL. He was dropped on the back of two poor games, but there is absolutely no reason why he shouldn't be as damaging now as he was during the first half of last season- people's memories are a bit short- today I popped in the round 22 match v North Melbourne last year, and Willow's best really is pretty invincible. If anything, our more dominant midfield this year should see him getting better delivery.
As far as his role in the side goes, I see it as being pretty similar to that played by McIntosh at the opposite end of the ground- on paper, he's our best FF, and using him when needed takes the pressure off the young'uns, and guarantees us some handy instance offence.
I'm also not quite sold on Haynes at FF. He didn't kick a goal against the Dees. I do think he's shown enough to suggest he will be a viable FF option down the track, but atm, he needs to bulk up a bit and learn to kick the set shot. Right now, our forward line is potent, but small, and could probably benefit from a big body like willow making his return.
He may also get his opportunity this week- Gaspar and Carroll both went down with injuries. We'll probably get back at least 2 out of 3 of Cousins, Kerr, and Wirrpunda, but if that were the case, we'll be going in very very small. Given that there's probably a good chance Milli will be rested after what must have been a pretty strenous outing against Neitz, suddenly there's a premium on talls. I'm thinking you might see Wilson come in to free up Haynes to play on the HBF, and Glass may also get another opportunity- how did he play in the WAFL this week?
I dont think Wilson is finished at all. Still a pretty potent FF and certianly better than anyone we currently have like Haynes who is still young. Other than Phillip Matera, Wilson is the only other forward in the squad that I believe can kick a bag of 6 or 7 goals in a game.
If his WAFL form is anything to go by I wouldnt be surprised to see him in the team next weekend. Imagine Willow, Chick, Kerr, Hunter all knocking people over, tackling, getting the hard ball. Could intimidate the young Cats in the already intimidating House of Pain.
Kenny_01
5 May 2003, 03:47
I think Wilson is still very capable and still the Eagles most dangerous forward. Having said that, don't think he will get many more games at AFL level.
Eagle_Fan
5 May 2003, 04:03
Well just for a change I'm going to disagree and most probably be subsequently ignored, but so is the way of the world.
As I said in a different thread, "I think his time may be up. He's served his purpose, and got a fair bit out of it in return. It's been a pretty short association, but I think it's been win-win too. We've had a guy who has created a forward target for us, which has helped our smaller forwards, while giving us a chance to develop the kids. Troy boy on the other hand got a few years of playing top level footy, not to mention the rather significant pay rise and public profile that came with it. I doubt any other club would have taken the risk with him at that stage, so personally I don't feel that leaving him in the WAFL now is in any way using him. I think it's just that the partnership is just about up."
Unless we are completely decimated by injury up forward, or the form of said forwards goes completely croady, I can't see a place for Troy, nor a reason to bring him back. Why would we play a 30-something year old ahead of the future of our club? The other excepion would be for an absolute must win game (like a final), and only then if his form warrunted inclusion ahead of others.
Originally posted by Eagle_Fan
Well just for a change I'm going to disagree and most probably be subsequently ignored, but so is the way of the world.
Who said that? Did someone type something? :)
I think the crux of this issue is that Wilson is the best full forward we have- you pretty much admit that yourself when you talk about bringing him back for a final. I met get panned for this, but Willow's physical attributes mean he has the ability to match it with best FFs in the business. His ability to lead faster than almost anyone, and his enormous size and strength mean he is a nightmare to match up on. If you read other team boards prior to games against West Coast, one of the consistent discussion points last year was who would get the job on Wilson- I've no doubt opposition coaching staff lost a similar amount of sleep over him.
Realistically, so far this year, he had a useless game against Hawthorn, and an outing against Port where he got a fair amount of the ball, but kicked poorly, finishing with 1.2.
I don't think two below average performances are a justification for declaring Wilson's career over- not when he's been kicking 6 a week in the WAFL.
You could just as easily make the argument about putting a 30 year old ahead of the club about Jakovich and McIntosh.
It comes back to the old chestnut of whether its better to put your best 22 on the park each week, or select a team with an eye to development. We have a heap of young'uns pushing for selection. At FF, Haynes has shown some signs over the past few weeks, but he doesn't look quite ready to shoulder the burden- I've no doubt he'll be our fulltime FF in a year or so. For now, though, why not play Wilson where he belongs, and put Haynes on the HBF (where he is actually pretty damn good), or as a second leading target in the forward line.
Ideally, I'd like to see Willow play about 13-15 of the 18 remaining games at FF, with Haynes playing the remainder at Full forward if Wilson's form drops again, or we're heading in to a wet weather match. I reckon that strikes the right balance between putting our best possible side on the park, and giving Haynes enough time to earn his stripes- i don't think thats a question of emotion, its just what is best for the team.
Agree completely with the above!
Originally posted by Mead
You could just as easily make the argument about putting a 30 year old ahead of the club about Jakovich and McIntosh.
That sums it up beautifully.
Porno is my adopted player. He seems to have got some form back in the WAFL. Me thinks its time he was brought back into the team this weekend. He is still in our best 22 imo. He is a big strong guy with alot of pace and he aint afraid to use it either. When he's playing good footy he's still worth playing. I agree with what mead said whole heartedly. Id like to see him play when he can and try and teach Haynes a few things about busting packs and speed and in particular leading.
I can't see him being recalled,unless there are injuries.
Haynes has shown he is the goods and creates opportunities for others. He is a team player. With BB all the attack focuses on him. Without him the structure becomes far more versatile. And look at saturday, Carroll gets injured and Haynes plays half back, that's great versatility and opposition coaches just can't plan to counter that.
For Geelong I'd replace Gaspar with McDougall. He's ready now. I'd also seriously consider resting Cuz. His ankle and now his cork need some recuperation. Kerr, Braun, Wooden, Chambers, Wirra are all champing at the bit to get back in.
I'd even think of blooding Selwood.
wilson may get a chance to play again this year but it will be because of injuries of poor performances from other players. i don't think that he will be our first choice FF again. but hey I'm more than willing for troy to prove me wrong.
There is no doubt that come the end of the year some hard decisions are going to have to be made in regards to the salary cap. Unfortunately, I think Willo might be one of the people that have to make way. We have plenty of promising, young, big guys on the list, its about time we show some faith in them.
Originally posted by Sera
There is no doubt that come the end of the year some hard decisions are going to have to be made in regards to the salary cap. Unfortunately, I think Willo might be one of the people that have to make way. We have plenty of promising, young, big guys on the list, its about time we show some faith in them.
Listen, Roo and Milli and Jako are probably two of the highest paid players at the club. With one already retired and the other probably retiring at the end of the season that should really ease the salary cap alot. Dont worry sera, everyone at the club will get what their worth. Noone will have to go, it'll work out well.
Originally posted by carlyp
Listen, Roo and Milli and Jako are probably two of the highest paid players at the club. With one already retired and the other probably retiring at the end of the season that should really ease the salary cap alot. Dont worry sera, everyone at the club will get what their worth. Noone will have to go, it'll work out well.
Yep, but Trevor Nisbett has already indicated that we may have to go in with a shortened list next year to keep everyone. I am guessing that we have to find about another 450-500k to keep our big guns coming out of contract. With roo [and probably milli] retiring and Jako going to the vets list, I'm guessing [I have no idea] this would free up about 250-300k. So that leaves another 200-250k yet to be found. I would [also guess] Willo is on about 80-120k.
Originally posted by Sera
Yep, but Trevor Nisbett has already indicated that we may have to go in with a shortened list next year to keep everyone. I am guessing that we have to find about another 450-500k to keep our big guns coming out of contract. With roo [and probably milli] retiring and Jako going to the vets list, I'm guessing [I have no idea] this would free up about 250-300k. So that leaves another 200-250k yet to be found. I would [also guess] Willo is on about 80-120k.
I have a feeling that both Milli and Roo were on much higher salarys than that. Id guess they were both on about 200 each or close to. Which would mean we have to find 100 thousand instead!
Roo 50% x $230K = $115K
Milli 50% x $200K = $100K
Jako to vets list = $120K
Siera delist = $180K
BB Delist = $140K (tricky though because his contract is performance based and if he doesn't play he won't get that much)
Savings = $665, and don't forget that the cap will go up.
Another tip.
Traded
Braun
Morrisson
maybe
Cox
Originally posted by Frodo
Another tip.
Traded
Braun
Morrisson
maybe
Cox
Braun yes
Morrison no
Cox maybe depending how hanson is coming along.
GoEagles
5 May 2003, 20:03
I wouldn't trade Cox unless Seaby is ready and waiting for an AFL spot.
As far as Wilson's future goes, I can't see him with us in 2005, but he might be able to stay on next year. I have a feeling that his WAFL form and any injuries/form with Haynes will determine if Willo stays.
There is Seaby but also Zac BeeK, Johnson and McDougall all capable in the ruck area. Hanson maybe too. Of Course Gaspar is handy there too and even Carroll can be a pinch hitter.
The problem is whether Coxy wants to stay a number two when there are plenty of AFL clubs who would trade strongly for him.
I'd love to keep both Gardy and Cox but if I were Cox I may just fancy being number one at essendon say.
Originally posted by Frodo
There is Seaby but also Zac BeeK, Johnson and McDougall all capable in the ruck area. Hanson maybe too. Of Course Gaspar is handy there too and even Carroll can be a pinch hitter.
The problem is whether Coxy wants to stay a number two when there are plenty of AFL clubs who would trade strongly for him.
I'd love to keep both Gardy and Cox but if I were Cox I may just fancy being number one at essendon say.
If Cox is a team player Im sure he will stay. He is pretty much guaranteed a game each weekend, backing up Gardy and he must know that he is onto a good thing here with the Eagles. But if he is a me first player, by all means go to another club and be their first ruckmen but dont play finals? I think Cox will make the right decision, he seems like pretty intelligent kid.
Black Thunder
5 May 2003, 23:55
I dont think we will see to much more of Wilson, although we will get to see the occasoinal glimpse of him during the season.
There's no real point in playing him because we need to develop the likes of Gaspar, McDougall.
Admittedly at the moment he is really the one of only two (with Fido) who are currently capable of kicking a big bag, but if we don't get some guys the chance they'll never do it.
Anyone reckon we should at least try and get something from a trade?? Even if we get a 3rd or 4th round pick, its better than him just retiring.
Eagle_Fan
6 May 2003, 00:37
Originally posted by Mead
You could just as easily make the argument about putting a 30 year old ahead of the club about Jakovich and McIntosh.
Not really. Just hitting 30 doesn't automatically put you out of the first 22 does it? Those two have been staple members of the team for more than a decade. They're not as fast and mobile as they were then, but they do still deserve & earn their places in the team. If a match-up doesn't work for them, they can be moved around, played in a few different positions, and still usually hold their own, or at least make a contest.
Troy boy though, (who I do like, don't get me wrong 'cos there's certainly no vendetta), well when he has a bad day, it's a shocker. He has his one position, and his one way of playing that position, which when it was new, was a laugh-a-minute, but highly effective tactic. His attack on the footy and all in it's path was such a refreshing change, but more and more it seems he's been going out with that in mind. He goes to ground more easily, which rather than creating an option for the small forward(s), leaves them his opponent to get past as well. He can be more a liability than anything else some games, whereas Haynsey & co are more versatile. I don't think we owe it to Willo to play him when he's not up to standard. What I meant with GF comment, was only if the other forwards were out of form and he was firing on all 4.
No way would I trade Morrison or Cox (unless the ultimate trade came up and Deano was into it), but as much as it really truly pains me, I could see Brauny go :(
Originally posted by Eagle_Fan
No way would I trade Morrison or Cox (unless the ultimate trade came up and Deano was into it), but as much as it really truly pains me, I could see Brauny go :(
NEVER!! Braun is an Eagle through and through!
Black Thunder
6 May 2003, 01:45
Originally posted by jod23
NEVER!! Braun is an Eagle through and through!
yea i'd hate to see him go because he has so much heart into his game, and he is just a little champ.
I do have a bad feeling about his future as Woosha doesn't seem to give him much time and when he's on he doesn't do to much. How can he though?? he's not overly talented and having to compete with the midfield we currently have, there is just no way he is in the class of some of the others.
Sometimes you have to bite your lip and say painful things but Brauny may be headed east if Woosha can get his hands on a reasonable tall man.
Braun would be in most teams midfields, except Brisbane and Adelaide, and perhaps maybe a couple of others.
Originally posted by Black Thunder
yea i'd hate to see him go because he has so much heart into his game, and he is just a little champ.
I do have a bad feeling about his future as Woosha doesn't seem to give him much time and when he's on he doesn't do to much. How can he though?? he's not overly talented and having to compete with the midfield we currently have, there is just no way he is in the class of some of the others.
Sometimes you have to bite your lip and say painful things but Brauny may be headed east if Woosha can get his hands on a reasonable tall man.
Braun would be in most teams midfields, except Brisbane and Adelaide, and perhaps maybe a couple of others.
I think Braun is just as talented as some of the midfielders we already have. He finished second on a count back in the 99 B&F if you all can remember that far back. He was very very good back then and with injuries and indifferent form he has slipped back in the pecking order but I think he has real passion for the club so I hope he plays his entire career for us!
Black Thunder
6 May 2003, 01:55
Originally posted by jod23
I think Braun is just as talented as some of the midfielders we already have. He finished second on a count back in the 99 B&F if you all can remember that far back. He was very very good back then and with injuries and indifferent form he has slipped back in the pecking order but I think he has real passion for the club so I hope he plays his entire career for us!
yea i too would like to see him see out his entire career for us, but it seems to me that Woosha doesn't have much room for sentiment.
What about Willo?? I think he'll probably retire at seasons end if he doesn't get back in regularly, but if he decides to stay on do you think we'd be able to trade him?? We wouldn't get much for him but as I said if we got a third round or fourth round pick or something like that its better than nothing.
Carlton are always looking for guys 30+ i hear ;)
Eagle_Fan
6 May 2003, 02:00
Originally posted by jod23
NEVER!! Braun is an Eagle through and through!
I don't want him to go. Really. In fact if I was to go blonde, get implants and stalk a player, Brauney would get the gig. However, I was just saying that of the three, he's the one that a)I would reluctantly let go first, and b)can see being left out of the first 22.
Chad Morrison is often touted as trade bait, but I would never, absolutely ever trade him. A top class junior Vic player who not only is prepared to move over here, but actually supported us to begin with is a rarity in itself, but for the same guy to work his way into a regular and consistant spot in the team then come back from back to back recons is even rarer. I can only imagine how he feels in that new 'old' jumper :)
Black Thunder
6 May 2003, 02:01
Originally posted by Eagle_Fan
Chad Morrison is often touted as trade bait, but I would never, absolutely ever trade him. A top class junior Vic player who not only is prepared to move over here, but actually supported us to begin with is a rarity in itself, but for the same guy to work his way into a regular and consistant spot in the team then come back from back to back recons is even rarer. I can only imagine how he feels in that new 'old' jumper :)
yea he is and its quite strange, he definetaly has some chemistry back there with Wirrpunda.
DW is the mercurical guy, while Morrison is the always reliable guy.
Very good combination.
Originally posted by Black Thunder
yea he is and its quite strange, he definetaly has some chemistry back there with Wirrpunda.
DW is the mercurical guy, while Morrison is the always reliable guy.
Very good combination.
Interesting to see how Collica goes down back with Morrison. Both similar type players. Both very reliable, accoutable footballers, Morrison has the more natural skill however.
Black Thunder
6 May 2003, 02:52
Originally posted by jod23
Interesting to see how Collica goes down back with Morrison. Both similar type players. Both very reliable, accoutable footballers, Morrison has the more natural skill however.
yer definetaly, have they ever played together?? Collica was here in 2001 wasn't he?? or was 2002 his first at WCE.
It will be interesting to see how a lot of guys go, because over the next year or two there will be plenty of guys fighting to stay in the squad who are very talented. Players like Hummer and Munro who are good enough but through lack of opportunities won't last past 2004 if they haven't done enough.
There are plenty of guys who are going to find themselves in danger at the end of 2004.
2003 is not so much of a danger. I dont think Wilson will be on our list for 2004 (either retire, deslited or traded). Sierakowski will be delisted for sure. Beeck and Rudeforth delisted of the rookie list. McIntosh will most probably retire, Peter Matera has retired.
There is 6 players who are almost certain gonners at the end of this season.
But at the end of 2004, the only player i can see retiring is Glen Jakovich, which means theres probably 4 or 5 more delistings to be made. Players like Seaby, Hansen and those who are in a similar boat can't stick around forever.
I've been dreading seeing a thread with a title like this one as I (Troy's #1 fan ;) ) have wondered the same thing.
Some very good points have been made on both sides so I won't bother repeating all the same stuff. I agree with most of it.
I think (or is it hope?!) we may just keep him for 2004 but beyond on that, I doubt it. A couple of figures suggested regarding his salary = $80-120 & $140 - I'd say closer to the $80 mark tops.
It amazes me that whenever Wilson has a good one everyone loves him, a couple of bad games and everyone wants his head - again (not meaning people here, just in general). Human nature I guess.
Would Siera really be on $180??
Rocco Jones
6 May 2003, 03:21
How about Marcus Picken for big Troy?
Originally posted by Rocco Jones
How about Marcus Picken for big Troy?
Who?
larrikin
6 May 2003, 03:38
Originally posted by Eagle_Fan
In fact if I was to go blonde, get implants and stalk a player, Brauney would get the gig. However, I was just
I think we all know you are far too bust stalking me already to even think about Brauny, however you can go blonde and get the implants any time you like.....
Originally posted by larrikin
I think we all know you are far too bust stalking me already to even think about Brauny, however you can go blonde and get the implants any time you like.....
was that supposed to read 'far too busy', or 'far too busty'? :eek:
larrikin
6 May 2003, 03:41
Originally posted by WA
Would Siera really be on $180??
Yeah that worries me too
Mind you he did come from St Kilda and they had to use 95% of the cap somehow.
Originally posted by Black Thunder
yer definetaly, have they ever played together?? Collica was here in 2001 wasn't he?? or was 2002 his first at WCE.
It will be interesting to see how a lot of guys go, because over the next year or two there will be plenty of guys fighting to stay in the squad who are very talented. Players like Hummer and Munro who are good enough but through lack of opportunities won't last past 2004 if they haven't done enough.
There are plenty of guys who are going to find themselves in danger at the end of 2004.
2003 is not so much of a danger. I dont think Wilson will be on our list for 2004 (either retire, deslited or traded). Sierakowski will be delisted for sure. Beeck and Rudeforth delisted of the rookie list. McIntosh will most probably retire, Peter Matera has retired.
There is 6 players who are almost certain gonners at the end of this season.
But at the end of 2004, the only player i can see retiring is Glen Jakovich, which means theres probably 4 or 5 more delistings to be made. Players like Seaby, Hansen and those who are in a similar boat can't stick around forever.
Beek is playing brilliant footy this season, he seems to be over his injuries. I can see him elevated to senior list.
Morrisson was set to join the Pies before his knee injury. Time will tell if he wants to stay or not. I guess if we have a good season and a flag isn't far away he will stay.
Sierra was KJ's big star signing, way ahead of Collica and Taylor, hence the wage.
Voice of Reason
6 May 2003, 12:37
Originally posted by Frodo
Sierra was KJ's big star signing, way ahead of Collica and Taylor, hence the wage.
More proof, if any were needed, that Judge was a hack coach.
Beeck and Seaby are both playing very well in the WAFL from what I've seen, live & TV, and both could conceivably play AFL ruck. IMO, none of the others mentioned (MacDougall, Hansen etc) will ever be more than pinch-hitting ruckmen, so they must make it in a key position. Gardiner's brilliant form so far would put Cox as the ruckman to trade, if either of Beeck or Seaby ever become good enough to supplant Cox.
Of all our midfielders, I'm afraid Braun is the one I'd leave out first most times, so he'd have to be a possible trade. I'd hate to see Chad leave, but it could happen.
Wilson - depends on his brain, rather than his age or his body (which seems to be in good condition). Don't know whether he'll make it back or not. While Woosha has made it clear that players must perform in the WAFL (Callum!) to get a chance to play AFL, it doesn't mean that good form in the WAFL will be translatable to AFL (witness Adkins' first half against Melbourne, where he was struggling with the pace of the game). Wilson at his best is our best FF option ATM, but has disappeared in mysterious circumstances away from home when he needed to perform. I suspect he'll get another chance, but he'll have to take it.
That's my thoughts anyway.
Theres an article on the afl website whereby Sumich is saying that Wilson is in now way done for at the club.
Also says that Wilson will get an opportunity sooner rather than later, maybe thats because he kicked 7 on the weekend??
daddy_4_eyes
7 May 2003, 00:42
Originally posted by iceman
Theres an article on the afl website whereby Sumich is saying that Wilson is in now way done for at the club.
Also says that Wilson will get an opportunity sooner rather than later, maybe thats because he kicked 7 on the weekend??
And the most interesting quote from that article:
“Troy’s got another two or three good years of footy left in him at this level."[
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
And the most interesting quote from that article:
“Troy’s got another two or three good years of footy left in him at this level."[
I'd like to see Troy running around for another 2 or 3 years :)
Should get a recall this week i think (hope)
Originally posted by daddy_4_eyes
And the most interesting quote from that article:
“Troy’s got another two or three good years of footy left in him at this level."[
here's the rest of it.
West Coast assistant coach Peter Sumich said Wilson hadn’t been forgotten by the match committee.
“Troy’s been looked at, probably the last three weeks, very strongly – he’s getting very, very close,” Sumich said.
“I suppose because we have been going alright up forward, and kicking some type of score, it’s probably just hard to fit him in at the moment, but Troy’s not far away, I’ll give you the tip – he’s just got to keep performing.
“Troy’s got another two or three good years of footy left in him at this level.”
I don't know how much can be read into that. While Sumich is doing the PR spin on Wilson, Whoosha has been talking up Haynes and his leadership role to the media. It seems we've got 2 very different options at FF with neither one dominating.
I agree with all said regarding Wilson. But why blend together a young team, if as is inevitable, he has to retire in a few years time? Why not start now with the process. Of course we may lose a few games because of it, but in the end it will benefit us.:confused: