Mark Williams - 1st Game Impressions

[Simon_Nesbit]

(sorry to intrude).

Unfortunately I missed the first half of your game last night, and being a Hawk supporter was very keen to see Donga play well. In the second half I was quite disappointed as it was very much the "same ol' willow", a couple of good leads, and not much else.

That said I think the Eagles scored the first six goals after half time or something like that, so he didn't really get much of an opportunity.

I wasn't going to bother posting (negative thread on opposition board, etc); but saw that he was in quite a few posters votes for BOG, so he must have had a pretty good 1st half.

I'm just curious as to how Bomber people have thought his first game was, and also his pre-season, etc. He seems to have lost a little of the extra weight he was carrying post injury last year, but doesn't have the same 'zip' as 08/early 09. Is it just a case of recovering from his knee still, or do you think this is "as good as he gets"?

I'm sure he relished being a main forward again though. He is (was?) SO good at the lead-mark-goal game.

[Skeeta Olly]

"same ol' willow"

If that's his worst, well he's going to kick 100 goals.

Played as the main forward, so had pretty much no tall support at all. Kicking three and providing some forward pressure helped. I also think he adds more than just goals.

[mark1881]

he looks lazy and laconic but is far from it. his very smart, threw himself on to the ball in contested situations quite a few times, kicked three and was involved in a few others. He'll be a handy forward with some taller players around him.

[Simon_Nesbit]

I think I can pretty much imagine his game then. ;)

Don't get me wrong, he's a (VERY) good player, but as we found he really is a small FF...as a tertiary target he struggled to get into the game, and with his knee issues couldn't play the pseudo-midfielder most periphery forwards do.

Interesting the contested work - it's something that only really started to develop in his game in 2008 (along with our whole side) - it's probably one thing you don't really have in your forward-line (not sure, don't follow THAT closely) is that bloke who just wins the ball. Don't think it's Williams role per se, but if he can contribute that (alongside his 2-3 goals) then he will be valuable.



He'll be good for a year or so as your main forward, though I'm not sure if he'll be much good after that, fingers crossed he holds up well.

[Darealrath]

I liked what I saw.He's bloody slippery around goal. Even though he's not a crumber he's probably our best crumber which is a bit of a concern though.

[Godzke]

he looks lazy and laconic but is far from it. his very smart, threw himself on to the ball in contested situations quite a few times, kicked three and was involved in a few others. He'll be a handy forward with some taller players around him.
I thought you were talking about Ibra there for a second...

Anyway, Willo should have an interesting year. Personally I expect him to boot north of 35 goals this season with plenty of support from Gumby, Neagle, Monfries, and a few others to chip in with a goal a game average.

[Ben the Gooner]

Hasn't missed a beat since 06 or so.:thumbsu:

[didaka]

Outsider looking in, looks like he'll be pretty handy when you can get those 2 talented young talls (Gumbleton and Hurley) into the forward line.

He'll kick 50.

[ghostdog]

I think I can pretty much imagine his game then. ;)

Don't get me wrong, he's a (VERY) good player, but as we found he really is a small FF...as a tertiary target he struggled to get into the game, and with his knee issues couldn't play the pseudo-midfielder most periphery forwards do.

Interesting the contested work - it's something that only really started to develop in his game in 2008 (along with our whole side) - it's probably one thing you don't really have in your forward-line (not sure, don't follow THAT closely) is that bloke who just wins the ball. Don't think it's Williams role per se, but if he can contribute that (alongside his 2-3 goals) then he will be valuable.



He'll be good for a year or so as your main forward, though I'm not sure if he'll be much good after that, fingers crossed he holds up well.

Keep your eye on Monfries next time. He wins a bit of contested ball. His second effort to recover possession that led to a goal against St Kilda last year in R20 is a terrific example.

[Leather Poisoning]

If he plays like that every game you'll get 50-60 goals out of him.

Kicked 3 last night even with the ball being at the other end for most of the game. I think Monfries can thank him for one as well (may have been someone else) - great pressure at the top of the goal square.

I love the confidence of the guy - you know when the ball comes in one-on-one he has a plan to out-body/out-think the defender and just assumes it will come off (in a good way). If he was a foot taller he'd be deadly.

Good luck to him. I hate Essendon, but hope Willo goes well.

[THEHIGHFLYINGHAWKER]

lets hope he brings the shotgun back to life at the bombers!

[Frothies Mcveigh]

I love the shotgun, also good to have charismatic players at the club like Willo.

[Godzke]

****ing hated the shotgun. Glad he put it away and hope it remains in the closet. Was my most hated Hawks player for a little while there because he looked like such a tool.

[topdon]

But its okay now ... he is our tool! ;)

[morebeer]

Willo has legit talent which we desparately need, so we can handle him being a bit in and out as long as he kicks goals and applies pressure.

He should get a much better opportunity to do his small full forward thing with us.

If we get what he gave us last night then I would be very happy.

[Ben the Gooner]

****ing hated the shotgun. Glad he put it away and hope it remains in the closet. Was my most hated Hawks player for a little while there because he looked like such a tool.

But its okay now ... he is our tool! ;)

This.:thumbsu:

[kelvin_sheedy]

0 tackles and very laconic.

It won't take long for this board to turn on him. Up until then people will give him a chance and say we won on the deal but I don't believe he's what we need.

I hope he proves me wrong.

[Skeeta Olly]

0 tackles and very laconic.

It won't take long for this board to turn on him. Up until then people will give him a chance and say we won on the deal but I don't believe he's what we need.

I hope he proves me wrong.

What do we need? (In the forward line that is, and don't say Rioli).

[kelvin_sheedy]

What do we need? (In the forward line that is, and don't say Rioli).

Midfielders... more midfielders.

[caboose]

0 tackles and very laconic.

It won't take long for this board to turn on him. Up until then people will give him a chance and say we won on the deal but I don't believe he's what we need.

I hope he proves me wrong.

Absolutely spot on.

Would love to be proved wrong too - but I'm still shaking my head at this piece of recruiting in almost every respect.

Not sure what all the fuss is about from last night, either. I didn't think he did much.

[Mecha]

Absolutely spot on.

Would love to be proved wrong too - but I'm still shaking my head at this piece of recruiting in almost every respect.

Not sure what all the fuss is about from last night, either. I didn't think he did much.

I would rather Williams be our main target any day over Neagle atm.

He kicked 3 goals. Average that out over 22 games, you get 66.

If Willams kicks 66 goals this year for us i'll be bloody wrapped. Our forward line at the moment is untried and was probably the worst part of last season.

[yaco55]

I predicted that Williams would kick 63 goals in an earlier thread - Have no reason to change my mind.

[Jonesy1987]

0 tackles and very laconic.

It won't take long for this board to turn on him. Up until then people will give him a chance and say we won on the deal but I don't believe he's what we need.

I hope he proves me wrong.

Just looking at stats again? His pressure caused a smother that got Monfries his first goal, also his second goal was from pressuring the man, great goal in tandum with davey and jetta. His diving chase in the last caused the turnover which lead to Zaharakis running goal.

I'm not even sure if you watch games.

[TeamHurley]

I think I can pretty much imagine his game then. ;)

Don't get me wrong, he's a (VERY) good player, but as we found he really is a small FF...as a tertiary target he struggled to get into the game, and with his knee issues couldn't play the pseudo-midfielder most periphery forwards do.

Interesting the contested work - it's something that only really started to develop in his game in 2008 (along with our whole side) - it's probably one thing you don't really have in your forward-line (not sure, don't follow THAT closely) is that bloke who just wins the ball. Don't think it's Williams role per se, but if he can contribute that (alongside his 2-3 goals) then he will be valuable.



He'll be good for a year or so as your main forward, though I'm not sure if he'll be much good after that, fingers crossed he holds up well.

You would have thought our doctors would have done there due dilligance on his knees and the trade wouldnt have gone ahead if they thought we would only get one year out of him.

[bombermick]

0 tackles and very laconic.

It won't take long for this board to turn on him. Up until then people will give him a chance and say we won on the deal but I don't believe he's what we need.

I hope he proves me wrong.

Laconic? He does have that look about him. But it's like Mark Waugh, he just appears to be cruising, even if he's not. Check out the 2008 GF and see his brilliant pressure goal, where he teamed up with a teammate to kick a great goal. If we get 50 goals out of him, Essendon win the deal hands down. Remember we traded Lovett who probably won't play a single game for his club.

[TeamHurley]

Laconic? He does have that look about him. But it's like Mark Waugh, he just appears to be cruising, even if he's not. Check out the 2008 GF and see his brilliant pressure goal, where he teamed up with a teammate to kick a great goal. If we get 50 goals out of him, Essendon win the deal hands down. Remember we traded Lovett who probably won't play a single game for his club.

We got 16 for lovett.

We traded 16 for Williams and also got pick 24.

So we gave up 8 spots in a so called weak draft.

picks around 16.

16 Jasper Pittard Geelong Falcons Port Adelaide
17 Daniel Menzel Central District Geelong
18 Luke Tapscott
19 Benjamin Griffiths Eastern Ranges Richmond
20 Nathan Fyfe

If any of these guys are stars im sure Kelvin will be on about this for the next 5 years.

If williams gives us 50 goals a year for the next 3-5 years we are laughing out of this deal.

We needed to inject some goals in our forward line and you would think that none of the above players were immediatly going to do that for us.

[eth-dog]

Midfielders... more midfielders.
So Myers, Zaharakis, Melksham, Colyer and Long not good enough for you? What about Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, McVeigh, Welsh, Dyson and Hocking? They not good enough either? Forward line is a much bigger issue atm

[Dragz]

Glad to hear that Willo did well in his first game.

As it happens, I was at the Airport on Saturday arvo when your lads came back from Perth. Willo had a slight limp. As in, it wasn't one that you'd turn to look at, but it was certainly there. Anyone heard anything about an injury to him? Hopefully it's just the usual soreness and stiffness after a long flight.

[Skeeta Olly]

So Myers, Zaharakis, Melksham, Colyer and Long not good enough for you? What about Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, McVeigh, Welsh, Dyson and Hocking? They not good enough either? Forward line is a much bigger issue atm

He wants more goal kicking midfielders, I think.

[kelvin_sheedy]

So Myers, Zaharakis, Melksham, Colyer and Long not good enough for you? What about Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, McVeigh, Welsh, Dyson and Hocking? They not good enough either? Forward line is a much bigger issue atm

None of the kids you mentioned are good inside mids with clean hands apart from possibly Melksham but he is a few years away.

Waston is the only good inside guy we have. Winderlich's hands are alright so hopefully he can turn into a ball winning type even though his body shape might not be suited.

The rest aren't clean enough by hand to get our midfield up and running into a top 4 spot.

We'd drafted enough talls and need more mids. Not point in a 27 year old spasmodic forward who's had injury concerns.

[Skeeta Olly]

We'd drafted enough talls and need more mids. Not point in a 27 year old spasmodic forward who's had injury concerns.

As much as you hate it, Myers could satisfy a clean inside midfielder.

As for the point above, the recent draft brought about Melksham, Colyer and Long, plus a tall in Carlisle.

[rusman]

We got 16 for lovett.

We traded 16 for Williams and also got pick 24.

So we gave up 8 spots in a so called weak draft.


Id also argue that we got more then 24 and williams as we got 33 for nash which wouldnt have happened by itself as nash is worth next to nothing on the trade table.

Definately owned that trade.

As for williams seems to me like he is exactly what we need at the price we got him. We need people who can kick goals as we lost 3 of our top 4 goal kickers last year. Also i think he will provide good leadership to small forwards in our team who havnt taken next step i.e jetta monfries (even davey taking step back).
I definately dont think kevin saw this game as he did provide defensive pressure when i was watching

[Simon_Nesbit]

Before anyone is concerned by Dragz comment, I don't think I've seen Williams walk around without a slight limp for years.

Even when he was fully fit (before the knees) he walked with a slight (but noticeable) limp.

[Kong]

None of the kids you mentioned are good inside mids with clean hands apart from possibly Melksham but he is a few years away.

Waston is the only good inside guy we have. Winderlich's hands are alright so hopefully he can turn into a ball winning type even though his body shape might not be suited.

The rest aren't clean enough by hand to get our midfield up and running into a top 4 spot.As Olly said, Myers is the potential wildcard. Even in the games where he was rather average in 2009, playing in defence, his stoppage work and hands in closer were pretty decent. If I find some footage I'll be sure to post it.

As for the other one, Zaharakis. Of course he's not a pure insider midfielder, but even his first game showed he can win the contested ball and clear it with precision. He's probably still at least a year away from having the endurance to play predominantly on-ball, but the ability's definitely there, in my opinion.

[kelvin_sheedy]

As Olly said, Myers is the potential wildcard. Even in the games where he was rather average in 2009, playing in defence, his stoppage work and hands in closer were pretty decent. If I find some footage I'll be sure to post it.



Myers hands have been nothing but terrible... especially below the knees.

I seem to recall him fumbling plenty of times and not being able to pick up the ball. I don't think he's a one touch player and that's what we need.

Here's a video of him in the juniors which sort of highlights what I'm saying. He double grabs to handball it off at the 31 second mark. He gets away with it here because its junior footy but he would be feeling body contact and a lot more pressure at AFL level. If you don't have complete control of the ball it'll spill out.

Fingers crossed that I've only seen his bad side and not the good.

3Tw8-_urKu8

[yaco55]

As Olly said, Myers is the potential wildcard. Even in the games where he was rather average in 2009, playing in defence, his stoppage work and hands in closer were pretty decent. If I find some footage I'll be sure to post it.

As for the other one, Zaharakis. Of course he's not a pure insider midfielder, but even his first game showed he can win the contested ball and clear it with precision. He's probably still at least a year away from having the endurance to play predominantly on-ball, but the ability's definitely there, in my opinion.

I agree that Zaharakis will eventually play as a midfielder but I would play him in the small forward's role for the next two years.

I dont have much confidence in Jetta or Davey filling this role.

[Kong]

Myers hands have been nothing but terrible... especially below the knees.

I seem to recall him fumbling plenty of times and not being able to pick up the ball. I don't think he's a one touch player and that's what we need.Perhaps you're right with regards to the "one-touch" comment. I was referring moreso to his ability to win the ball - even if it requires more time - and dish it off to space. He's obviously done well enough - at times - to clear it in time, despite his apparent fumbles.

Here's a video of him in the juniors which sort of highlights what I'm saying. He double grabs to handball it off at the 31 second mark. He gets away with it here because its junior footy but he would be feeling body contact and a lot more pressure at AFL level. If you don't have complete control of the ball it'll spill out.

Fingers crossed that I've only seen his bad side and not the good.That footage isn't great, and to be honest, not much of his carnival is. His kicking was severely overrated, especially on BigFooty, but I distinctly remember him doing pretty solid with regards to clearance work, even at AFL level. I remember the Carlton Round 3 game last year where Wiggins touched him up, and how bad he looked. Even then, there were one or two pieces of play near my end where he kept his feet in a contest, won the ball and disposed of it to a player in the clear.

We obviously remember different parts of his game, and he sure has a long way to go, but I hold out hope that he'll - at the very least - give Jobe much-needed support in the ball-winning department.

What are your thoughts on the Zaharakis comment?

[yaco55]

Whomb

I agree with your comments about Myers being solid at extracting the pill from congested situations, and seeing that he was played as an inside midfielder in the VFL late in 2009, he is likely to be given every chance to play in the midfield.

I also understand where Kelvin is coming from - He is referring to Myers ball handling being clumsy when he has to run on too loose balls.

It is an interesting dilemma because Royal Eagle ( who is knowledgeable about Junior WA footy ) posted earlier that he sees Myers as a defender.

Time will tell.

[Kong]

Whomb

I agree with your comments about Myers being solid at extracting the pill from congested situations, and seeing that he was played as an inside midfielder in the VFL late in 2009, he is likely to be given every chance to play in the midfield.

I also understand where Kelvin is coming from - He is referring to Myers ball handling being clumsy when he has to run on too loose balls.I don't seem to remember it too much myself, but I'll take both of your words on it. As I said, that footage (and other U18s I've seen) back that statement up.It is an interesting dilemma because Royal Eagle ( who is knowledgeable about Junior WA footy ) posted earlier that he sees Myers as a defender.

Time will tell.I would've thought that's the last place he'd blossom, but hopefully we'll know by year's end.

[windyhill]

Not knowing the stats but his shots at goal percentage would be very high.(In terms of goal/point)
When he was at hawfforn i`d always say " This bloke never bloody misses"

[drybones]

Absolutely spot on.

Would love to be proved wrong too - but I'm still shaking my head at this piece of recruiting in almost every respect.

Not sure what all the fuss is about from last night, either. I didn't think he did much.
If he didn't do much, I'd love to see what happens when he does do much!!
He's kicked 3 so you're pretty much saying when he plays well he'll kick 7 or 8+.
Had to play on their best defender in Glass as well. Imagine if Monfries had to stand against the best defender each week, he'd be shocking! But he doesn't and he's a quality forward because of it. Wait til Willow is standing against the 3rd or so defender (when the top couple have to hold the likes of Gumby, Neagle, Hille, Ryder or Hurley) and see what he can do. It's also going to work wonders for Monfries who will then be opposed to an even lesser defender..

[skilgannon_au]

TBH i was absolutely flabbergasted when we traded pick 16 for Mark. I can guess the reasons behind the move with Lloyd and Lucas retiring, and losing Lovett, thus needing a backup player who can kick goals in case Gumbleton and/or Neagle doesn't come up, but i still don't like the trade.

Personally, I wouldn't like trading for/drafting a small forward (even if Mark plays tall) in exchange for a first round pick (albeit a high one in a weak draft) even for reason of team balance (ala Carlton with Yarran) for the reason that they're not that important relative to midfielders and kp players which you would be losing a chance of getting if you trade/draft for a small forward.

Put another way, if our team had no specialist small forward and had an abundance of good midfielders, i would still use our first round pick for midfielder (or utility) rather than draft/trade for small forward.

I would stress im not ruling out trading/drafting a small forward at all, just not for the equivalent of a first round pick.

[Ben the Gooner]

TBH i was absolutely flabbergasted when we traded pick 16 for Mark. I can guess the reasons behind the move with Lloyd and Lucas retiring, and losing Lovett, thus needing a backup player who can kick goals in case Gumbleton and/or Neagle doesn't come up, but i still don't like the trade.

Personally, I wouldn't like trading for/drafting a small forward (even if Mark plays tall) in exchange for a first round pick (albeit a high one in a weak draft) even for reason of team balance (ala Carlton with Yarran) for the reason that they're not that important relative to midfielders and kp players which you would be losing a chance of getting if you trade/draft for a small forward.

Put another way, if our team had no specialist small forward and had an abundance of good midfielders, i would still use our first round pick for midfielder (or utility) rather than draft/trade for small forward.

I would stress im not ruling out trading/drafting a small forward at all, just not for the equivalent of a first round pick.

But it was 16 for Williams and 24, in effect.

[skilgannon_au]

Hey BiG, yeah effectively it was a trade for Mark and 24, but i still don't think its worth it. ;)

Its a pet hate, but I hate trading for old players (even if they come cheap). The hate comes from the days when sheedy went and got Zantuck, Murphy, Mark Allan, that WB players etc etc. I think you get the drift. lol.

[Ben the Gooner]

Hey BiG, yeah effectively it was a trade for Mark and 24, but i still don't think its worth it. ;)

Its a pet hate, but I hate trading for old players (even if they come cheap). The hate comes from the days when sheedy went and got Zantuck, Murphy, Mark Allan, that WB players etc etc. I think you get the drift. lol.

Williams is slightly better than Alvey, Zantuck etc.;)

[U Got Reimered]

Williams is slightly better than Alvey, Zantuck etc.;)

What do you mean? Zantuck was a gun? His accuracy at goals was close to par with Williams' ;)

I saw a highlights package with the worse shots at goal and I think Zantuck was in it about 12 times.. Haha

Back on topic, I actually got goosebumps when I saw Williams warming up before the game, and his first shot at goal (pretty sure it was his first) was typical Williams.. Dead Eyed Dick..

Everyone should stop being negative and judging the trade. Wait until the end of the season before we judge!!!

[Skeeta Olly]

Ant has said countless times on here that he was very impressed with Myers' inside work at stoppages for Bendigo, that's something special when Bock is rucking. I'll take his opinion over probably everyone on here.

[NathanS]

I think the William's trade was definitely worth it. I'm sure the club looked at the probable draft picks between 16 and 22 and looked at the speculative potential vs a "known" in Williams.

I said last year that Essendon was missing a good small / medium forward - our forward line was bordering on dysfunctional last year. Davey had lost a yard of agility after his knee. Jetta wasn't firing. Reimers was injured. Monfries while serviceable I don't believe will ever be a superstar. And we were losing our two best full-forwards for the last decade. Goal kicking power has to come from somewhere. A forward was the logical choice.

That said, I think there are still plenty of holes in our list :-(

[Pumper Rubberfunk]

Good:thumbsu::thumbsu: the spoil he made in the 1st quater was great for jetta.. kicking backwards and slowing the play around our forward 50 will help with no big targets to aim at.. am worried the DONS forward line could turn into the new bulldogs dwarfe line up

[stay true]

I think he did well in his first hitout for us. I thought it was a good trade when we made it and in the wake of today's happenings the trade is further justified.

Just need him to stay fit and kick 40+ and we can be very, very happy with the trade.:thumbsu:

[Sam the RAMA fan]

I thought he was alright...
hopefully keeps kicking a few a game :thumbsu:

[TheDon35]

Good.

Did exactly what he was picked for. Kicked a few goals and was dangerous in a side that was uncompetitive for most of the game.

[Pweter]

Hard to comment on Friday night as Williams was our only key forward but I think he did it well considering there were limited opportunities for much of the game. He can only be better for the run.

I think Williams needs to play out of the goal square to be truely effective for us. If he can work in tandem with someone like Hille/Ryder or Neagle out of the goal square I think the trade will be a winner. These guys would also bring the crumbers into the game. It'd leave guys like Monfries to play the hit up forward and Gumbleton or Hurley to be the true CHF.

[centurion]

He did his job.

[FandangoDingo]

Good luck to him. I hate Essendon, but hope Willo goes well.

We don't even care about the Hawks! :D Flash in the pan! ;)

If Willams kicks 66 goals this year for us i'll be bloody wrapped.

[puts on teacher's hat] Not wanting to bust balls AT ALL, but it's "rapt". :thumbsu: [puts beanie back on]

Id also argue that we got more then 24 and williams as we got 33 for nash which wouldnt have happened by itself as nash is worth next to nothing on the trade table.

Definately owned that trade.

Yep. We have definitely won that trade, by a massive margin.

Before anyone is concerned by Dragz comment, I don't think I've seen Williams walk around without a slight limp for years.

Even when he was fully fit (before the knees) he walked with a slight (but noticeable) limp.

I also noticed that Campbell Brown walks with a limp... wrist. I'm sure you'll agree, once he puts on the Gold Coast jumper! ;) :D

[Simon_Nesbit]

*not turning this into a CB thread*

What did you expect him to do exactly?

If he stands up for his mates = suspended at tribunal, painted as thug and menace to the game....

Just goes about his job with no backchat = "don't give me a reason campbell" (some umpires take specific issue with him and look for excuses to penalise him)

Has the "holy" ones fingers in his eye = fined for bringing the AFL into disrepute....(and then Judas has the audacity to go on tv and attempt to 'exonerate' himself, putting Campbell deeper in the mire)

Finally, he has the ability to control his rage ("FFS don't get suspended Cam") = made into laughing stock by media.

Lloyd has quite a long history with regards to injuring Hawthorn players illegally - and most hawk fans would have probably 'forgiven' campbell for on-field retribution....but all it would have done would have given the media more ammunition to use against us (ala any reporting of LITS .......which portrays Essendon as innocent, or virtual saints...which was most of it).

*/not turning this into a CB thread*

Back on topic (kind of) - Hawthorn really looked after our players this trade week just past. Sydney (JK3, Hoops) and Bombers (Williams) provided 'career' contracts to players that honestly would be doubtful 22-game starters for us. We got them to their clubs of choice, and got reasonable return...but well under value.

Meanwhile we paid overs to Port for Burgoyne (despite their issues/actions during the week), and for mine Gibson too.

You did very well out of Lovett IMO, regardless of what's transpired since (which only hurts Saints....no-one else is really affected).