Kallis, Ponting or Tendulkar - Who is better?

[BluesInTheSky]

For me I would take Tendulkar by a country mile. Followed by Kallis, Tendulkar is a true great a living legend, Kallis is very, very good and Ponting is good. What do you guys think?

[Johnny_Segment]

1/ Sachin
2/ Kallis
3/ Ponting

[Krakeour Magic]

For me I would take Tendulkar by a country mile. Followed by Kallis, Tendulkar is a true great a living legend, Kallis is very, very good and Ponting is good. What do you guys think?

I think you know nothing about cricket.

[sudzz]

It entirely depends on what context one is looking at, if it is playing an important part in the teams victory and scoring runs when it matters then the order is

Ponting
Sachin
Kallis

with very little difference between Kallis and Sachin

But if its the sheer pleasure of watching a batsman bat and dominate bowlers when in full cry then the order is

Sachin
Sachin
Sachin

Though one must say Ponting at his best is a batsman that one can watch all day as well Kallis not so much.... But the way Sachin used to go after bowlers in his day was something not seen by many the only other person that gave so much pleasure in watching him bat was King Vivian Richards....

[Good Win]

I would take Kallis in a heart beat.

He is basically two players in one. A gun top order batmen (averaging 55~) and a solid 1st change bowler (averaging 30~). He is a guy you can structure your team around. Absolute all-round genius.

Ponting and Tendulkar are close seconds but i'd probably take Sachin. Ponting to me doesn't look as fluent as the little master as he 'jumps' at the ball. Sachin is more technically gifted.

[crownie]

all at their best i would take Ponting as a dominant number 3 always ensures a good start and pressure back on the other side.

Kallis while a run machine just never seems to have a influence on games a huge run maker should.

Tendulkar for pure talent is the better batsman then both of them but Pontings record at batting number 3 holds more value in my opinion.

[Spikey]

Kallis can bowl. I chose him.

[King Elvis]

Kallis while a run machine just never seems to have a influence on games a huge run maker should.

While he is an incredible talent and deserves to be considered an all time great, I've always though Kallis was a little bit selfish.

[Sylvia Saint]

Purely on stats you would say that Kallis is the best. But purely on stats one could also argue that Scott West was better than James Hird.

Looking at the bigger picture, Kallis does not influence games the way Ponting and Tendulkar do. You'd have to say that Punter has declined a fair bit in recent years where as Tendulkar just keeps on keeping on. But when they were both at their absolute best it was a pretty close battle.

[The Falcon Strike]

It's a difficult one - that's for sure - however anyone claiming that any of the three is miles ahead of the others is delusional.

In terms of batting - it's between Tendulkar and Ponting. From a records point of view, Tendulkar I would say is slightly superior - however he has failed on the big stage of the pointy end of world cup finals. Ponting on the other hand has stood up twice. IN addition - Ponting bats at 3 - probably the toughest spot - neither Kallis or Tendulkar have been able to do that.

In saying that I'd still lean towards Tendulkar though for an all-round batting game.

Kallis's batting is effective but slow - Ponting as an example scores his runs at a much quicker rate and therefore creates more opportunity for victory.

Kallis obviously has the other two covered in bowling. Tendulak is better than ponting at bowling - but it likes comparing finding 10 cents on the grond as opposed to 20cents. One is better, but they are both irrelevant.

Ponting also has the captaincy record that the other 2 have. For all that he is bagged, he still holds better records as captain than anyone else - and for 4 years of that - without mcgrath and warne.

Overall - i'd have ponting and tendulkar on par as cricketers - slightly ahead of kallis.

[Johnny_Segment]

1. Sachin - weight of numbers and pleasure to watch leaves him as an easy to pick at number 1. Can't argue with 47 hundreds @ 55. And at a time where aussie bowling attacks tormented batsmen the world over, he was able to make them look mortal with 10 tons @ 56.

2. Kallis - as Good Win said, he is 2 players in one, and 2 world class players at that. In an era of 10-15 tests a year, to be able to average 55 in the top order and 31 with the ball as a genuine 1st/2nd change bowler is amazing. Is now 3rd of all time in Test Centuries, and 28th for Test Wickets (should easily finish top 20 with 300+)

3. 3rd best batsman I have ever seen in my lifetime. Like Sachin, his record speaks for itself. 39 tons @ 55 is amazing, and has the ability to make any bowling attack look like a first class side.

I have Sachin ahead of Ponting purely on his undeniable numbers. Both are similar batsmen in that they both look to stamp authority on teams and take the attack to bowlers, Sachin has just been able to do it better.

I have Kallis ahead of Ponting because he is world class in both facets. Has only 5 less tons than Ponting, but has 260 wickets. If it was just on batting Ponting would be streets ahead, but his wickets are enough to edge him in front.

The next 12-18 will decide for me where Ponting ends on this list. The rough patch he is going through at the moment was the same as what Sachin went through a couple of years ago. He has been able to come out the other side and score 7-8 more tons and is looking as strong as ever. If Ponting can do the same and end up with say 44 or 45 centuries, it coould leap frog him to number 1.

[r dub 19]

FFS enough of these Ponting threads where people claim ponting is better then sachin, its beyond a joke.

[crownie]

FFS enough of these Ponting threads where people claim ponting is better then sachin, its beyond a joke.

hey ******** the person that started this thread rated Tendulkar ahead of both by a country mile then asked for other peoples thoughts :rolleyes:

[Spikey]

Yeah I'm sick of threads where people voice their opinions on a interesting question. Let's start some more NSW bias threads instead.

[BluesInTheSky]

Sorry if this thread has offended anyone, didn't mean it to. The mods can delete the thread if they wish.

[r dub 19]

hey ******** the person that started this thread rated Tendulkar ahead of both by a country mile then asked for other peoples thoughts :rolleyes:

Hey ass clown I was referring to posters that do so, not the OP.

[saj_21]

Tendulkar purely as a batsmen, closely followed ponting who has probably played less against the minnow nations, but has a poor record in India, whereas Sachin has a great record all round the world.

However i will still chose ponting as he has captained Australia to two world cups, numerous series victories, bats at 3 and has a great record of making runs when needed. How good would a side be with Ponting at 3 and Sachin at 4.

Kallis 3rd, great all rounder, terrific player but i don't seem him as damaging as the other two and can be a bit selfish and stagnate in his approach to batting. Wouldn't be a bad number 5 to follow the other two.

[King Elvis]

Sorry if this thread has offended anyone, didn't mean it to. The mods can delete the thread if they wish.

You clearly have an issue with Punter, but that's fine ;)


Interesting that we're discussing batting and bowling, yet nobody seems to consider fielding ability too important.

[TeamMan 14]

You clearly have an issue with Punter, but that's fine ;)


Interesting that we're discussing batting and bowling, yet nobody seems to consider fielding ability too important.

Very Good point KE:thumbsu:. I don't think there would be anyone better at the moment in the world when it comes to fielding than ponting. And I still can't believe Kallis is getting mentioned in the same sentance as Tendulker and Ponting.

[YOTC]

I don't think there would be anyone better at the moment in the world when it comes to fielding than ponting.
Oh dear god :o

A horrible slipper is Ponting, and hasn't been consistent at throwing the stumps down since the 90s.

Was a great fielder in his day, but he's average now.

[TeamMan 14]

Oh dear god :o

A horrible slipper is Ponting, and hasn't been consistent at throwing the stumps down since the 90s.

Was a great fielder in his day, but he's average now.

We must be watching different games then???? because I haven't seen ponting miss too often.

But thats just my opinion

[Johnny_Segment]

I would rate Kallis a better slipper than Ponting. Ponting has pulled off some absolute blinders, but drops more than Kallis who makes it look easy.

[Smokey_22]

Kallis plays for himself more than the other two.

Interesting to see how long each lasts for. Kallis may choose to play on until after ponting retires just to get more test runs.


Anyone have the stats?

[crownie]

Oh dear god :o

A horrible slipper is Ponting, and hasn't been consistent at throwing the stumps down since the 90s.

Was a great fielder in his day, but he's average now.

UpTPQsMR6o0
is his day? the 90's?

sounds like your the one that needs the 'oh dear god' :o

[YOTC]

UpTPQsMR6o0
is his day? the 90's?

sounds like your the one that needs the 'oh dear god' :o
Oh ffs. How about those catches he's dropped in the recent era with his fingers up technique? Dropped a crucial catch in the ashes with that horrible technique of his. He stands way too far back, so many balls fall short of the slips.

In the 90s when he was at Point/Gully he was a gun fielder. It looks like a more natural position for him, took everything and was a much better thrower when he fielded in that position.

Now he might get 1 run out a summer and they say "he rarely misses" which is clearly not the case.

[crownie]

Oh ffs. How about those catches he's dropped in the recent era with his fingers up technique? Dropped a crucial catch in the ashes with that horrible technique of his. He stands way too far back, so many balls fall short of the slips.

In the 90s when he was at Point/Gully he was a gun fielder. It looks like a more natural position for him, took everything and was a much better thrower when he fielded in that position.

Now he might get 1 run out a summer and they say "he rarely misses" which is clearly not the case.

ive hardly watched any cricket this summer and ive seen him hit the stumps atleast 5 times.

[Kim Hagdorn]

Oh dear god :o

A horrible slipper is Ponting, and hasn't been consistent at throwing the stumps down since the 90s.

Was a great fielder in his day, but he's average now.

What a load of crap.

[DoubleO7]

Very Good point KE:thumbsu:. I don't think there would be anyone better at the moment in the world when it comes to fielding than ponting. And I still can't believe Kallis is getting mentioned in the same sentance as Tendulker and Ponting.
AB de Villiers is clearly the best fieldsmen on the planet. IIRC, there was a thread on it not too long ago.

[Krakeour Magic]

Mods, I'd like to know how many of these IP's are originating from Bombay?

[Cousin Jed]

None.

Not sure why YOTC's comments on Ponting's fielding is so "controversial" his slips catching is dare I say it, bordering on deplorable trying to point his fingers up when the ball is 6 inches off the ground is not a good idea.

[Belnakor]

1. Ponting

Captaincy seems to be very underrated. SRT could never cut it as captain, its an incredibly demanding job, both through tactics, planning and the media committments. Very few people thrive when they have less time to devote to their game. Punter has played many more match winning innings than Tendulkar. That is simply a fact, both in ODI and Tests (Tendulkar might have the edge in ODI). Tests is where Ponting shines but his performances on the biggest stage of all, the world cup finals, have shown he is the man for pressure. He is also a VASTLY superior fielder to both Tendulkar and Kallis.

2. Tendulkar.

Great batsman, probably the best batsmen of the modern era, but his recluctance to bat at 3, or to captain show that ultimately he doesn't have the mental abillity to take on such a heavy burden. Mentally weak? Maybe, he has failed on the biggest stage of all - a world cup final.

3. Kallis

Kallis as a batsman is a distant 3rd, however obviously his bowling takes the cake from an all-round perspective. But Kallis isn't the kind who bowls a team to victory, but none the less is very handy.

[SydneyDon]

Tendulkar purely as a batsmen, closely followed ponting who has probably played less against the minnow nations, but has a poor record in India, whereas Sachin has a great record all round the world.

However i will still chose ponting as he has captained Australia to two world cups, numerous series victories, bats at 3 and has a great record of making runs when needed. How good would a side be with Ponting at 3 and Sachin at 4.

Kallis 3rd, great all rounder, terrific player but i don't seem him as damaging as the other two and can be a bit selfish and stagnate in his approach to batting. Wouldn't be a bad number 5 to follow the other two.

I agree with this. Kallis only averages 40 against Australia, the dominant opposition during his career. Likes his home turf, averages 60 playing in Africa (including Zim), but also low average in England.

Ponting is consistant all round with the exception of India (average only 20 in 12 matches)

[apollo_creed]

I can't believe some people are biased enough to rate Ponting as a better batsman than Tendulkar.

Ask neutrals and there would be one clear winner.

[The Falcon Strike]

I can't believe some people are biased enough to rate Ponting as a better batsman than Tendulkar.

Ask neutrals and there would be one clear winner.

who's a better cricketer though?

[legend166]

I can't believe some people are biased enough to rate Ponting as a better batsman than Tendulkar.

Ask neutrals and there would be one clear winner.


I think you'll find people are rating Ponting ahead of Tendulkar based on more than pure batting ability. Captaincy and fielding should come into it, no?

[r dub 19]

Wake up people. If ponting is such a great captain why did we lose 2 ashes series?? I love how people forget that. Another thing, is it really that hard to captain when you have 2 of the greatest bowlers of all time in your team, not to mention an awesome batting line up.

If you think Ponting is a superior player than Sachin you are simply bias and have no idea about cricket.


*Cousin jed try not to delete this post, I know it's hard for you not to do so.

[Cousin Jed]

Not as hard as you think :)

[r dub 19]

Not as hard as you think :)

(relax it will reappear in a minute)

FAIL. I was referring to the fact you find it very difficult for me to post my opinions.

[DT_fanatic]

It's quite laughable people are bringing captaincy into it. The people who are know that Ponting doesn't cut it as a batsman when compared to Tendulkar.

How you can compare captaincy capabilities of two people who are part of vastly DIFFERENT sides I will never know.

[r dub 19]

It's quite laughable people are bringing captaincy into it. The people who are know that Ponting doesn't cut it as a batsman when compared to Tendulkar.

How you can compare captaincy capabilities of two people who are part of vastly DIFFERENT sides I will never know.

Correct :thumbsu:

[King Elvis]

It's quite laughable people are bringing captaincy into it. The people who are know that Ponting doesn't cut it as a batsman when compared to Tendulkar.

How you can compare captaincy capabilities of two people who are part of vastly DIFFERENT sides I will never know.

Fielding?

The reality is, as batsmen, the only way to split them is with your personal bias.

Wake up people. If ponting is such a great captain why did we lose 2 ashes series?? I love how people forget that. Another thing, is it really that hard to captain when you have 2 of the greatest bowlers of all time in your team, not to mention an awesome batting line up.

Siddle and Hauritz?

[davey_magik]

I have to go with Tendulkar. Punter is a better captain but it is like saying Tendulkar is a better bowler, both aren't much chop. Ponting is obviously a superior fielder but I judge them on their main job in the side, which is to make runs. Ponting is a champion but Tendulkar is the best batsman since 1950, period. I mean the guy has made the most runs with a ridiculously good average (His average went back past Punters recently).

I rate Ponting as a better batsman than Kallis, but not by much. All three would be in best XI since 1950.

[The Falcon Strike]

I have to go with Tendulkar. Punter is a better captain but it is like saying Tendulkar is a better bowler, both aren't much chop. Ponting is obviously a superior fielder but I judge them on their main job in the side, which is to make runs. Ponting is a champion but Tendulkar is the best batsman since 1950, period. I mean the guy has made the most runs with a ridiculously good average (His average went back past Punters recently).

I rate Ponting as a better batsman than Kallis, but not by much. All three would be in best XI since 1950.

i think ponting is a better captain then most give him credit for - his record stacks up against that of waugh and taylor - without mcgrath/warne for a number of years.

And it's a big call rating tendulkar number 1 - there has been a number of great players - and i'd have Viv Richards as the best batsman of the last 60 years. Considering the trends to higher run scoring in the past 20 years - richard's record sits comfortably among the elite batsman of all time.

[wce4premiership]

ponting
tendulkar
kallis

[Buddy]

Tendulkar
Ponting
Kallis

SRT stepped up against every opposition in every situation.

For some to say he is mentally 'weak' is a laugh. If a guy scores the most runs in a WC and then fails in the final, it means he's had a bad game. If a bloke fails every time he goes to a country (Ponting in India), does that construe 'mental weakness'?

Obviously not, but both are just as ludicrous.

[Big Tezza]

I have to go with Tendulkar. Punter is a better captain but it is like saying Tendulkar is a better bowler, both aren't much chop. Ponting is obviously a superior fielder but I judge them on their main job in the side, which is to make runs. Ponting is a champion but Tendulkar is the best batsman since 1950, period. I mean the guy has made the most runs with a ridiculously good average (His average went back past Punters recently).

Actually, Ponting still has the higher average. During Tendulkar's 106, his average did momentarily surpass that of Ponting, but after he was dismissed, his average fell back below Ponting's. For the record, Ponting currently averages 55.67, Tendulkar 55.56. Not that the average means everything; I rate Lara ahead of either, and he 'only' averaged 52.88.

On topic, I can't really split Tendulkar and Ponting. Sachin had more flair, but Ponting was absolutely rock solid for so many years, plus played more match winning innings. As great as Kallis is, I rate him a rung below the other two.

[The Falcon Strike]

Tendulkar
Ponting
Kallis

SRT stepped up against every opposition in every situation.

For some to say he is mentally 'weak' is a laugh. If a guy scores the most runs in a WC and then fails in the final, it means he's had a bad game. If a bloke fails every time he goes to a country (Ponting in India), does that construe 'mental weakness'?

Obviously not, but both are just as ludicrous.

a number of SRT's tons in WC come against minnows. you only get a few rare chances to perform in WC finals - the great players seem to take them. SRT hasn't, Ponting has. So he hasn't stood up on every occasion. Plus it isn't just the grand final he fallen short in.

SRT is still a slightly better batsman - but he isn't god, and he isn't classes above ponting.

[saj_21]

I can't believe some people are biased enough to rate Ponting as a better batsman than Tendulkar.

Ask neutrals and there would be one clear winner.

I think most would say as a pure batsmen Sachin has ponting covered, not by much but has him covered. Fact is Ponting has made runs when it counts more often than not and done so at 3 and as captain. Something which Sachin has not done.

As for Pontings fielding it has been as good as ever this summer, watching the AB Medal highlights i saw on 2-3 occasions ponting exacting runs from direct hits, his catching is as good as its been despite a unsual approach some times, by getting low and pointing the fingers up.

[Ill Chicken]

Kallis in test cricket, Ponting in ODI and Tendulkar for class.

[Blues_Man]

I think most would say as a pure batsmen Sachin has ponting covered, not by much but has him covered. Fact is Ponting has made runs when it counts more often than not and done so at 3 and as captain. Something which Sachin has not done.

As for Pontings fielding it has been as good as ever this summer, watching the AB Medal highlights i saw on 2-3 occasions ponting exacting runs from direct hits, his catching is as good as its been despite a unsual approach some times, by getting low and pointing the fingers up.

This ^ As an all round cricketer Ponting is the best....even as a pure batsman he more than holds his own.

Some of the posters in this thread are known Ponting haters their opinions are tainted by their agendas..the op is a prime example .

[DoubleO7]

This ^ As an all round cricketer Ponting is the best....even as a pure batsman he more than holds his own.


So, you have completely ignored Kallis' 261 Test wickets?

[apollo_creed]

Fielding?

The reality is, as batsmen, the only way to split them is with your personal bias.



Siddle and Hauritz?
No it's not.

Remove personal bias and ask neutrals and Tendulkar would be clearly preferred.

I think you need to remove your bias.

[Ill Chicken]

No it's not.

Remove personal bias and ask neutrals and Tendulkar would be clearly preferred.

I think you need to remove your bias.

If you remove bias, then it would be Ponting then Kallis and Tendulkar wouldn't even be in the picture.

[Cooldude]

I wonder if most of the people in there actually saw Sachin bat back in the 90s.

He is easily no.1 as a batsman, the other two don't even come close

[Tyberious Funk]

I wonder if most of the people in there actually saw Sachin bat back in the 90s.

He is easily no.1 as a batsman, the other two don't even come close

You're welcome to put Sachin as no 1, but claiming the Kallis and Ponting aren't even close is just plain ridiculous. Sachin's record is, at best, only marginally better than Ponting.

[Ill Chicken]

I wonder if most of the people in there actually saw Sachin bat back in the 90s.

He is easily no.1 as a batsman, the other two don't even come close

Would you rather a batsman that looks good or batsman that wins you games?

[Cooldude]

Would you rather a batsman that looks good or batsman that wins you games?

I'd rather one that has both, and that's Tendulkar

[Cooldude]

You're welcome to put Sachin as no 1, but claiming the Kallis and Ponting aren't even close is just plain ridiculous. Sachin's record is, at best, only marginally better than Ponting.

Only fools determine the worth of a batsman by comparing purely records. Ponting was at his peak during a period between 2002-2007, where he batted somewhere near Tendulkar's standards, but the quality of the bowling at the time was very poor compare to other eras. Ponting also has a massive minus to his record against any quality bowling during that time. The likes of Sharma, the England quicks and even Roach caught him out.

Kallis, it's laughable how he is even compared with the other two. Sure, he gets the numbers but he stonewalls, fails too much against Australia and has been accused of playing for his average for his entire career. Nowhere close

Tendulkar on the other hand batted in such a way against the quality bowling of the 90s that anyone who has watched him during that time all rated him as the best in the world. He toys with spin bowling to a completely different level to Ponting (whom struggles against it, although less so 5 years ago). He has scored mountains of runs against Australia during their peak when they clearly had the best bowling in the world, and made Shane Warne, who is probably the greatest spinner in history, look like a D grade bowler everytime he came up against him.

Sorry, but Ponting isn't even better than Lara, who is probably the only one who comes close to Sachin in the modern era. I hope people have actually watched all three played extensive before making their own judgments, otherwise it's just laughable

[Ill Chicken]

I'd rather one that has both, and that's Tendulkar

His record in comparison to Ponting and Kallis is woeful in that department, nor is he any good in the 2nd innings.

[Ill Chicken]

Only fools determine the worth of a batsman by comparing purely records. Ponting was at his peak during a period between 2002-2007, where he batted somewhere near Tendulkar's standards, but the quality of the bowling at the time was very poor compare to other eras. Ponting also has a massive minus to his record against any quality bowling during that time. The likes of Sharma, the England quicks and even Roach caught him out.

Sorry but you're saying Ponting performed against shit bowling in 2002-07 yet Tendulkar dropped four runs off his average in the same period.

Kallis, it's laughable how he is even compared with the other two. Sure, he gets the numbers but he stonewalls, fails too much against Australia and has been accused of playing for his average for his entire career. Nowhere closeThen why does Kallis have a better win record than Tendulkar?

Tendulkar on the other hand batted in such a way against the quality bowling of the 90s that anyone who has watched him during that time all rated him as the best in the world. He toys with spin bowling to a completely different level to Ponting (whom struggles against it, although less so 5 years ago). He has scored mountains of runs against Australia during their peak when they clearly had the best bowling in the world, and made Shane Warne, who is probably the greatest spinner in history, look like a D grade bowler everytime he came up against him.Yeah I remember those quality sides Australia use to send to India in the 90's. Seriously, Gavin Robertson is the original Krejza right? This whole 90's bullshit about the bowling being better and that it was so much harder back then is ordinary to say the least. The only thing that has changed is you don't get as many of the same old school wankers like Neil Harvey telling you that you can't hit a four off the first ball of a game. The mentality of the game has changed while the skill level has become more honed as happens in every generation of top level sports. The bowling is as good as it has ever been it's just they're still catching up to the changes in batting.

Sorry, but Ponting isn't even better than Lara, who is probably the only one who comes close to Sachin in the modern era. I hope people have actually watched all three played extensive before making their own judgments, otherwise it's just laughableYou're talking about three/four completely different types of players. I'd take Lara over Tendulkar and Ponting over Lara and Tendulkar but Kallis is in the top five players of all time because he is a gun all rounder.

[crownie]

Tendulkar on the other hand batted in such a way against the quality bowling of the 90s that anyone who has watched him during that time all rated him as the best in the world.


Angus Frazer, Caddick, Chris Lewis and Derick Pringle?

[crownie]

This whole 90's bullshit about the bowling being better and that it was so much harder back then is ordinary to say the least. The only thing that has changed is you don't get as many of the same old school wankers like Neil Harvey telling you that you can't hit a four off the first ball of a game.

its amazing that when the clock struck over to the year 2000 the standard of bowling in cricket instantly dropped :D

[krisholio14]

Angus Frazer, Caddick, Chris Lewis and Derick Pringle?

Well yeah, but then don't forget we haven't had bowlers of the calibre of Akram, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, de Villiers and hell, even Javagal Srinath, getting around deep into the noughties.

Hell, even the two countries that had legendary bolwers spanning the last two decades, Sri Lanka (Murali and Vaas) and Australia (Warne and McGrath), haven't found anyone to replace them who are in their league.

Of the current bowlers i'd only put Dale Steyn in that sort of esteem.

Having said this, I have no problem mentioning Ponting and Tendulkar in the same breath.

And lets face it, for whatever people want to say about Jacques Kallis, his record speaks for itself. he would walk into any team ever to play the game at any time in the games history.

[crownie]

Well yeah, but then don't forget we haven't had bowlers of the calibre of Akram, Waqar, Ambrose, Walsh, Donald, de Villiers and hell, even Javagal Srinath, getting around deep into the noughties.

Hell, even the two countries that had legendary bolwers spanning the last two decades, Sri Lanka (Murali and Vaas) and Australia (Warne and McGrath), haven't found anyone to replace them who are in their league.

Of the current bowlers i'd only put Dale Steyn in that sort of esteem.

Having said this, I have no problem mentioning Ponting and Tendulkar in the same breath.

And lets face it, for whatever people want to say about Jacques Kallis, his record speaks for itself. he would walk into any team ever to play the game at any time in the games history.

i would say nearly every team has atlest one bowler better then him.

Steyn will go down as a great and would murder some teams if he had some of the 90's pitches to bowl on and i think Asif's record for a medium pacer in this day and age of cricket is quite remarkable.

[krisholio14]

i would say nearly every team has atlest one bowler better then him.

Steyn will go down as a great and would murder some teams if he had some of the 90's pitches to bowl on and i think Asif's record for a medium pacer in this day and age of cricket is quite remarkable.

Srinath is the most underrated bowler of our time.

There i've said it :D

[Cooldude]

Angus Frazer, Caddick, Chris Lewis and Derick Pringle?

Selectively picking the bowlers from probably the worst performing international team in the 90s outside of Bangladesh/Zimbabwe/Kenya?

Diablo14 mentioned some of the other bowlers that Sachin have mentioned to make hundreds against. Also averaging nearly 60 against the likes of McGrath, Warne and co probably counts for something?

People who try to argue against the bowling in the 90s not being better than the one in the 00s are kidding themselves.

[Cooldude]

Sorry but you're saying Ponting performed against shit bowling in 2002-07 yet Tendulkar dropped four runs off his average in the same period.

Then why does Kallis have a better win record than Tendulkar?

Yeah I remember those quality sides Australia use to send to India in the 90's. Seriously, Gavin Robertson is the original Krejza right? This whole 90's bullshit about the bowling being better and that it was so much harder back then is ordinary to say the least. The only thing that has changed is you don't get as many of the same old school wankers like Neil Harvey telling you that you can't hit a four off the first ball of a game. The mentality of the game has changed while the skill level has become more honed as happens in every generation of top level sports. The bowling is as good as it has ever been it's just they're still catching up to the changes in batting.

You're talking about three/four completely different types of players. I'd take Lara over Tendulkar and Ponting over Lara and Tendulkar but Kallis is in the top five players of all time because he is a gun all rounder.

Don't split my post, it's childish and annoying

1. Tendulkar had a tennis elbow and various other injuries to get over during 2002-2006 or so. Thought that was fairly well documented. Before then, his average was 59 and was going up.

2. Because Kallis played in a better team throughout his career? Tendulkar has played in some laughable Indian sides over the years and still managed to score runs. I'm not sure what your point is, since it's completely irrelevant.

3. Now you are just talking rubbish, Shane Warne was bowling at the other end when Gavin Rob was trundling around at that time. I can selectively pick shit bowlers from any era to justify my point, but if you look at the overall quality of bowling in both decades, then you are stupid to even think that the 90s wasn't better than the 00s. Hope people were watching the game then and now

4. I laugh at your choices. That is all :D Hope you actually watched all three all these years to comment.

[Cooldude]

His record in comparison to Ponting and Kallis is woeful in that department, nor is he any good in the 2nd innings.

Chennai 1997, 99, 2001 series 3rd Test vs Aus, Sharjah, England at Mumbai recently (There's a 2nd innings winning ton to your poor 2nd innings jibe), bloody hell he has even won matches at the death with his bowling, but I won't go there. That's not even counting all those innings he had played to get India so close to wins that they wouldn't otherwise have, because they are bad. And they would've won those close matches if his team was anything better than pathetic.

He has played countless matchwinning innings in his time, particularly in Tests. Anyone who has watched it would know. Over a 20 year career, I can selectively pick any little failure there is and use it against anyone. Heck, I can say that Ponting lost 2 Ashes series in England as captain and didn't perform with the bat when it counted. But I wouldn't use that against Ponting because I think he is the 3rd best batsmen in modern times behind Tendulkar and Lara, because I wouldn't selectively pick any little blip in a long career to make a bias point?

I laugh at you even pointig out Kallis performing in the big moments. People say Tendulkar failed in a World Cup final: Bloody hell, Kallis has hardly done anything in any World Cups, and has a habit to go missing in the big moments. Have you even watch Kallis all this time?

[Ill Chicken]

Don't split my post, it's childish and annoying

So is your alias.

1. Tendulkar had a tennis elbow and various other injuries to get over during 2002-2006 or so. Thought that was fairly well documented. Before then, his average was 59 and was going up.

Ponting and Kallis have never had an injury.

2. Because Kallis played in a better team throughout his career? Tendulkar has played in some laughable Indian sides over the years and still managed to score runs. I'm not sure what your point is, since it's completely irrelevant.

Tendulkar doesn't win games. Kallis does.

3. Now you are just talking rubbish, Shane Warne was bowling at the other end when Gavin Rob was trundling around at that time. I can selectively pick shit bowlers from any era to justify my point, but if you look at the overall quality of bowling in both decades, then you are stupid to even think that the 90s wasn't better than the 00s. Hope people were watching the game then and now

I'm not saying it is better, I am saying it isn't worse, or are you too stupid to understand that or anything else I said? No, what you were doing was being a selective in what you replied to.

4. I laugh at your choices. That is all :D Hope you actually watched all three all these years to comment.

28 out of 39 tons Ponting has scored came in winning test matches of which 11 have come outside of Oceania. Tendulkar has scored 19 of 47 in winning test matches and only three are outside of Asia. Kallis has hit 18 of 34 tests tons in winning test and four have come outside of Africa. Ponting and Kallis are both superior fielders. Kallis can bowl.

[Ill Chicken]

Chennai 1997, 99, 2001 series 3rd Test vs Aus, Sharjah, England at Mumbai recently (There's a 2nd innings winning ton to your poor 2nd innings jibe), bloody hell he has even won matches at the death with his bowling, but I won't go there. That's not even counting all those innings he had played to get India so close to wins that they wouldn't otherwise have, because they are bad. And they would've won those close matches if his team was anything better than pathetic.

That's a load of crap, their batting has been heavy weights for the last 10 years and they've always played well at home.

He has played countless matchwinning innings in his time, particularly in Tests. Anyone who has watched it would know. Over a 20 year career, I can selectively pick any little failure there is and use it against anyone. Heck, I can say that Ponting lost 2 Ashes series in England as captain and didn't perform with the bat when it counted. But I wouldn't use that against Ponting because I think he is the 3rd best batsmen in modern times behind Tendulkar and Lara, because I wouldn't selectively pick any little blip in a long career to make a bias point?

Yes and they're all in Asia.

I laugh at you even pointig out Kallis performing in the big moments. People say Tendulkar failed in a World Cup final: Bloody hell, Kallis has hardly done anything in any World Cups, and has a habit to go missing in the big moments. Have you even watch Kallis all this time?

Ha. I didn't even say anything about Kallis or Tendulkar in the WC. Regardless, India in general have a habit of going missing in the big moments, especially away from home.

[apollo_creed]

I can't believe someone is quite seriously comparing the bowling standard of the 90's wth the 00's.

Ponting struggled in the 90's when fast bowling had an outstanding pool of talent.

Tendulkar didn't.

Really, I wouldn't bother with this ill chicken character. It's obvious he's an obsessed fanboy unwilling to accept or grasp that most of the world rates Tendulkar above Ponting.

He is a better batsman. I don't know why anyone would argue differently when it's obvious but I suppose I underestimate the willing stupidity of some.

I mean seriously pulling out stats about hundreds in winning test matches? That's reflective of teammates, not the individual. India have been terrible away from home for a long time. It's not Tendulkar's fault if his teammates can't produce consistent form away from India. A really useless stat. Totally irrelevant to the argument and a sign of desperation from someone who has so little else to go on.

[Tyberious Funk]

Only fools determine the worth of a batsman by comparing purely records.

What a convenient way to just dismiss the only factual evidence to compare players, in favour of pure opinion.

In any event, you should note that I didn't say I rated Ponting higher. In fact, I agree that both Lara and Tendulkar as probably better. But to say that Ponting is nowhere even close is just plain exaggeration. His record batting at number 3, the toughest spot in the order, is phenomenal (Tendulkar has never batted at 3 in Tests). Plus, he has taken on the added pressure of captaincy without any impact on his batting. Criticise his captaincy as much as you like, the fact remains that he's been a relatively successful captain and maintained his batting form. Tendulkar's form started to dip under the pressure of captaincy and he ultimately relinquished it. These are only minor points, though.

IMHO, Kallis is the next rung down. Along with guys like Dravid. Awesome batsman, but just not quite in the Ponting/Lara/Tendulkar class. If you add his bowling into the mix, though, Kallis has fair claim to being one of the all time greats.

[Johnny_Segment]

His record in comparison to Ponting and Kallis is woeful in that department, nor is he any good in the 2nd innings.

???

Ponting in teams 2nd Innings - 3411 runs @ 44.88 with 6 centuries (http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7133.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=3;innings_n umber=4;orderby=start;template=results;type=allround;view=in nings)
Sachin in teams 2nd Innings - 3763 runs @ 42.76 with 12 centuries (http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=3;innings_ number=4;orderby=start;template=results;type=allround;view=i nnings)

[Freo Big Fella]

The most amusing thing about this thread is that Kallis gets mentioned in the same breath as Ponting or Sachin.

Most spectacularly overrated player of all time.

[crownie]

Selectively picking the bowlers from probably the worst performing international team in the 90s outside of Bangladesh/Zimbabwe/Kenya?

Diablo14 mentioned some of the other bowlers that Sachin have mentioned to make hundreds against. Also averaging nearly 60 against the likes of McGrath, Warne and co probably counts for something?

People who try to argue against the bowling in the 90s not being better than the one in the 00s are kidding themselves.

i could mention Sri Lankas, New Zelands and Indias pace bowling line ups as well if you want but i wont rub it in.

[Cooldude]

i could mention Sri Lankas, New Zelands and Indias pace bowling line ups as well if you want but i wont rub it in.

Wait, are we just talking pace bowling or bowling overall? If you don't then you are missing out on some of the great spinners Sri Lanka and India has had in the 90s. And Srinath was nowhere near as bad as you try to make him out to be. Much underrated

I could at least find one or two + great bowlers hanging around most international sides back in the 90s, save for New Zealand and England. Same cannot be said for the noughties thus far.

Look at some of the South African attacks before Steyn became great. The best of them is Ntini and he is just a workhorse and a very good bowler, but not a great one. Then you have a 120 kph past it Pollock opening at the other end. then Andre Nel and Boje?

Let's not get into some of the crap Windies, Pakistan, New Zealand and England (barring 05) have served up over this decade.

Over the past year, the bowling standards have improved, which is good for the game and that's why we've had lots of cracking Test Matches recently, but looking at the Windies recently would remind you of the dark ol' days 5 years ago.

[Cooldude]

What a convenient way to just dismiss the only factual evidence to compare players, in favour of pure opinion.

In any event, you should note that I didn't say I rated Ponting higher. In fact, I agree that both Lara and Tendulkar as probably better. But to say that Ponting is nowhere even close is just plain exaggeration. His record batting at number 3, the toughest spot in the order, is phenomenal (Tendulkar has never batted at 3 in Tests). Plus, he has taken on the added pressure of captaincy without any impact on his batting. Criticise his captaincy as much as you like, the fact remains that he's been a relatively successful captain and maintained his batting form. Tendulkar's form started to dip under the pressure of captaincy and he ultimately relinquished it. These are only minor points, though.

IMHO, Kallis is the next rung down. Along with guys like Dravid. Awesome batsman, but just not quite in the Ponting/Lara/Tendulkar class. If you add his bowling into the mix, though, Kallis has fair claim to being one of the all time greats.

Factual? Just looking at stats and compare isn't factual at all, in fact, it's an armchair expert's way to compare players. The only factual account is if you have seen both players play in flash, since obviously there are lots of things stats cannot tell you. Anyone who determines the worth of a player purely on stats are laughable fools.

I wasn't arguing against anything you said though, so I dunno why you took offense of what I said specifically to yourself. In fact I will probably agree with you, Ponting is 3rd behind Tendulkar and Lara.

Are you serious about Tendulkar's form dipping as captain? He was still averaging 50+. He was under pressure because he doesn't have the resources or players to win him games that Ponting has had. He was losing games because his team was crap, but he certainly didn't stop scoring runs. So your argument about the captaincy as a comparison between the two doesn't hold.

Also, Ponting chose the best era to bat at no.3, where the opening bowling in most countries were horrid and the pitches were the flattest there had been. Same can be said of Hayden opening.

[Ferris_rules]

There is one significant issue that really needs to be addressed.

Who are the bowlers?

Tendulkar day in day out has proven that he can face the "BEST" bowlers in the world, his record for this feat is unmatched.

Ponting and Kallis through obviously no fault of their own have not faced the "best" in the world.

McGrath, Warne, Donald, Pollock.

Lesser extent, Ntini, Steyn, Gillespie and Lee.

India's pop gun attack has never seriously had a genuine game breaker bowler that could seriously match any of the 8 bowlers stated above.

I think if you picked the bowling line up in which these batsmen would have to face you would appreciate that Tendulkar would be miles ahead of Ponting and Kallis in terms of demonstrated proven ability.

Not to say that Ponting or Kallis couldnt match him or in fact beat him, but as the saying goes Sachin has the runs on the board.

[The Falcon Strike]

Also, Ponting chose the best era to bat at no.3, where the opening bowling in most countries were horrid and the pitches were the flattest there had been. Same can be said of Hayden opening.

I'm sure he had a big say on his era.

Whilst the 90's may have had better quicks - the 00's had probably the golden era of spinners. Singh, Muralitharan, Warne, Kumble, Vettori (as far as NZ goes) all took the bulk of their wickets in the 00's

Ponting's main fall is his performance in India, Tendulkar's is he hasn't performed at an elite level on the biggest stage - being the world cup. Yes he has some runs, many tons against minnows, but nothing aside from runs against Kenya in a SF that would be considered big runs in the finals or even important super 6 matches.

Tendulkar is the better batsman, has a rock solid technique. However they have played in an identical era with the exception of a handful of years. Their results are very similar - so trying to drop the - he's in a different league is ridiculous.

[The Falcon Strike]

There is one significant issue that really needs to be addressed.

Who are the bowlers?

Tendulkar day in day out has proven that he can face the "BEST" bowlers in the world, his record for this feat is unmatched.

Ponting and Kallis through obviously no fault of their own have not faced the "best" in the world.

McGrath, Warne, Donald, Pollock.

Lesser extent, Ntini, Steyn, Gillespie and Lee.

India's pop gun attack has never seriously had a genuine game breaker bowler that could seriously match any of the 8 bowlers stated above.

I think if you picked the bowling line up in which these batsmen would have to face you would appreciate that Tendulkar would be miles ahead of Ponting and Kallis in terms of demonstrated proven ability.

Not to say that Ponting or Kallis couldnt match him or in fact beat him, but as the saying goes Sachin has the runs on the board.

Explain to me the difference between mcgrath and gillespie on a green top - as opposed to singh and kumble on a crumbler?

[crownie]

Wait, are we just talking pace bowling or bowling overall? If you don't then you are missing out on some of the great spinners Sri Lanka and India has had in the 90s. And Srinath was nowhere near as bad as you try to make him out to be. Much underrated

I could at least find one or two + great bowlers hanging around most international sides back in the 90s, save for New Zealand and England. Same cannot be said for the noughties thus far.

Look at some of the South African attacks before Steyn became great. The best of them is Ntini and he is just a workhorse and a very good bowler, but not a great one. Then you have a 120 kph past it Pollock opening at the other end. then Andre Nel and Boje?

Let's not get into some of the crap Windies, Pakistan, New Zealand and England (barring 05) have served up over this decade.

Over the past year, the bowling standards have improved, which is good for the game and that's why we've had lots of cracking Test Matches recently, but looking at the Windies recently would remind you of the dark ol' days 5 years ago.

im just trying to provide some point that the bowling in the 90's wasn't as great as what people are making it out to be, yes i acknowledge it was better then this decade but some teams provided some very ordinary attacks in the 90's as well.

[Ferris_rules]

Explain to me the difference between mcgrath and gillespie on a green top - as opposed to singh and kumble on a crumbler?

Ok.

Tendulkar has a proven record overseas on a green top and on a crumbler in India.

Ponting got owned on a crumbler. Tendulkar has faced Warne at his peak (a better bowler than Singh and Kumble) and destroyed him to the extent that Warne came out and said he has nightmares bowling to Tendulkar. Warne has never said this about any batsmen.

Warne >>>>> Kumble >>>> Harbhajan

McGrath >>>>>>>> Gillespie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Srinath >>>>>>>>>> Zaheer.
:rolleyes:

Obviously Ponting has never faced the best on a green top in McGrath Gillespie Lee et al from Australia.

Tendulkar on a crumbler has faced the worlds best and beaten him, ie Warne. Ponting has never simply faced the best bowlers in the world, thats a fact! Not to say he couldnt deliver if he did, but he hasnt and thus hasnt got the runs on the board.

[apollo_creed]

Explain to me the difference between mcgrath and gillespie on a green top - as opposed to singh and kumble on a crumbler?
err... you're walking into a losing argument there. just warning you.

if there is no difference then ponting's record in such situations makes your argument even worse.

[The Falcon Strike]

Ok.

Tendulkar has a proven record overseas on a green top and on a crumbler in India.

Ponting got owned on a crumbler. Tendulkar has faced Warne at his peak (a better bowler than Singh and Kumble) and destroyed him to the extent that Warne came out and said he has nightmares bowling to Tendulkar. Warne has never said this about any batsmen.

Warne >>>>> Kumble >>>> Harbhajan

McGrath >>>>>>>> Gillespie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Srinath >>>>>>>>>> Zaheer.
:rolleyes:

Warne's record on Indian soil is very average - given the choice - i'd face Warne in india over singh and kumble.

Given how many times Ponting has supposedly failed - hes lucky to have made the runs he has - must have been lots of lucky edges down to third man

[The Falcon Strike]

err... you're walking into a losing argument there. just warning you.

if there is no difference then ponting's record in such situations makes your argument even worse.


i know what i was saying - i know ponting failed against those spinners in india - he also plundered runs here.

however people talk about tendulkar's average against australia - yet in india he never had to face the quality of spin for those pitches that we had to - and in Australia - supposedly the ponting haters say Tendulkar got to bat on roads - so there was no green tops.

[Ferris_rules]

err... you're walking into a losing argument there. just warning you.

if there is no difference then ponting's record in such situations makes your argument even worse.

At least you understand my line of thinking! :thumbsu:

[Ferris_rules]

i know what i was saying - i know ponting failed against those spinners in india - he also plundered runs here.

however people talk about tendulkar's average against australia - yet in india he never had to face the quality of spin for those pitches that we had to - and in Australia - supposedly the ponting haters say Tendulkar got to bat on roads - so there was no green tops.

omg Im not going to argue with you, you dont understand cricket. :rolleyes:

Tendulkar has in fact a higher average in Australia than in India. 58 v 55

Ponting's average is 60 in Australia and 20 in India.

Before you bring up the fact that Ponting has a higher ave than Tendulkar note that Tendulkar "struggled" as a 16 yr old. India needed him in the team, whereas Ponting had the luxury of learning his craft in the Sheffield Shield. Hence Tendulkar's average reflects this.

Overall though the fact remains that Tendulkar has faced and indeed challenged the best in the world int terms of bowlers, Ponting through no fault of his own has not demonstrated this.

Note that the fact is that Warne is a much much bowler than Singh or Kumble, I think Warne would have loved to have bowled in India against every country bar India! India just face spinners a little better than most, although they too have struggled against overseas spinner as well.

A little assignment for you, go to statsguru and check Warnes awesome record in India against all teams bar India its 19. Alebit it is ODI as you cannot play a Test match against another country bar the home country.

So with that said Warne is an awesome bowler in India, its just that Indians face spinners better. Given that Warne is the best there is no reason to believe that Sachin couldnt easily face Singh or Kumble. However Ponting has never been able to face the best bowlers. FACT! :rolleyes:

[crownie]

Warne's record on Indian soil is very average - given the choice - i'd face Warne in india over singh and kumble.




depends which Warne we were facing, Twice Warne went to India on the back of shoulder injuries and clearly was no where near his best.

[The Falcon Strike]

omg Im not going to argue with you, you dont understand cricket. :rolleyes:

Tendulkar has in fact a higher average in Australia than in India. 58 v 55

Ponting's average is 60 in Australia and 20 in India.

Before you bring up the fact that Ponting has a higher ave than Tendulkar note that Tendulkar "struggled" as a 16 yr old. India needed him in the team, whereas Ponting had the luxury of learning his craft in the Sheffield Shield. Hence Tendulkar's average reflects this.

Overall though the fact remains that Tendulkar has faced and indeed challenged the best in the world int terms of bowlers, Ponting through no fault of his own has not demonstrated this.

Note that the fact is that Warne is a much much bowler than Singh or Kumble, I think Warne would have loved to have bowled in India against every country bar India! India just face spinners a little better than most, although they too have struggled against overseas spinner as well.

A little assignment for you, go to statsguru and check Warnes awesome record in India against all teams bar India its 19. Alebit it is ODI as you cannot play a Test match against another country bar the home country.

So with that said Warne is an awesome bowler in India, its just that Indians face spinners better. Given that Warne is the best there is no reason to believe that Sachin couldnt easily face Singh or Kumble. However Ponting has never been able to face the best bowlers. FACT! :rolleyes:

you are arguing a different point - i don't know where you took my comment

Tendulkar has average less than 40 against S. Africa - and their great quicks of Donald, Pollock, Steyn. De Villiers et al - so perhaps he has a weakness?

Ponting has failed in India and plundered everywhere else - Tendulkar has been rock solid except against South Africa and in the pointy end of World Cup Finals.

However people are knocking Ponting for making runs on Australian roads - yet when Tendulkar makes runs against australia on the same roads - the runs are worth double.

I understand cricket very well. Tendulkar is the best batsman of the past 20 years - that doesn't mean he is light years better than Ponting.

Ponting hasn't fluked his runs - and if we only take Tendulkar's record since Ponting debuted it is 56.2 - so i just don't know how a batsman in a different league could only be just ahead of ponting. I'd have expected on the roads and weak bowling attacks that Ponting has had - that Tendulkar would have averaged 70 - i mean - he is a god right?

[Cooldude]

im just trying to provide some point that the bowling in the 90's wasn't as great as what people are making it out to be, yes i acknowledge it was better then this decade but some teams provided some very ordinary attacks in the 90's as well.

Fair enough then, you are probably right in that regard, but I enjoyed watching the bowling of most sides back in the 90s. They were all very good in their own right.

[Cooldude]

you are arguing a different point - i don't know where you took my comment

Tendulkar has average less than 40 against S. Africa - and their great quicks of Donald, Pollock, Steyn. De Villiers et al - so perhaps he has a weakness?

Ponting has failed in India and plundered everywhere else - Tendulkar has been rock solid except against South Africa and in the pointy end of World Cup Finals.

However people are knocking Ponting for making runs on Australian roads - yet when Tendulkar makes runs against australia on the same roads - the runs are worth double.

I understand cricket very well. Tendulkar is the best batsman of the past 20 years - that doesn't mean he is light years better than Ponting.

Ponting hasn't fluked his runs - and if we only take Tendulkar's record since Ponting debuted it is 56.2 - so i just don't know how a batsman in a different league could only be just ahead of ponting. I'd have expected on the roads and weak bowling attacks that Ponting has had - that Tendulkar would have averaged 70 - i mean - he is a god right?

The South Africans of the 90s all acknowledge Tendulkar as the best they have bowled against. They do have some success against him, although it is surprisingly with some of the medium pacers that they serve up. Allan Donald's battles with Sachin have been well documented, they have had success against each other in the odd occasion but neither of them could claim to have the wood over each other.

The 90s Saffers bowled to Tendulkar very well as a unit, but Tendulkar has never been a miserable failure and disgrace himself in any of the tours (which is different to some of Ponting's runs in India). Although Tendulkar's been correcting that little blip in his career recently with two centuries against the likes of Steyn in his peak and a rising Morkel.

I think you are missing the point with the Australia comment though. There's a difference between making runs against say, the West indies on Australian soil than Australia in their home turf. Tendulkar has done the latter in probably every series he has played here.

[Ferris_rules]

I think you are missing the point with the Australia comment though. There's a difference between making runs against say, the West indies on Australian soil than Australia in their home turf. Tendulkar has done the latter in probably every series he has played here.

exactly right ! :thumbsu: End of discussion, close thread. lol

[The Falcon Strike]

The South Africans of the 90s all acknowledge Tendulkar as the best they have bowled against. They do have some success against him, although it is surprisingly with some of the medium pacers that they serve up. Allan Donald's battles with Sachin have been well documented, they have had success against each other in the odd occasion but neither of them could claim to have the wood over each other.

The 90s Saffers bowled to Tendulkar very well as a unit, but Tendulkar has never been a miserable failure and disgrace himself in any of the tours (which is different to some of Ponting's runs in India). Although Tendulkar's been correcting that little blip in his career recently with two centuries against the likes of Steyn in his peak and a rising Morkel.

I think you are missing the point with the Australia comment though. There's a difference between making runs against say, the West indies on Australian soil than Australia in their home turf. Tendulkar has done the latter in probably every series he has played here.

over the journey - since ponting has debuted - Tendulkar has averaged just above ponting against the same attacks around the world in test cricket.

In ODI cricket Tendulkar has regularly failed at the pointy end of world cup finals or super six stages. This isn't just one finals game - this is over 4 world cup series - he simply hasn't performed when it counts, with the exception of one innings against powerhousse Kenya. Ponting on the other hand has - and lead his team to victory by his actions - this is being conveniently ignored.

Tendulkar averages 39 against SA and 43 against Pakistan. Ponting lowest average against any team is India at 47 - that is remarkable consistency against all comers. If we are talking about cheap runs - do we dismiss Tendulkar's 800 odd runs at 130 against bangladesh and the 900 runs at 77 against zimbabwe ?

The argument that Tendulkar is a better batsman is redundant - i don't disagree that he is better than ponting over the journey - but the argument that he is miles ahead is a fallacy.

[Ferris_rules]

Another point that is very very valid in this argument, is that Ponting has had the "luxury", of being in a powerhouse team, again no fault of his, but the fact remains there is more pressure on Tendulkar than Ponting has ever had to face.

For a long time, it has been if Tendulkar fails then so does team India. Australia has been blessed with batsmen hence the pressure on Ponting is very different. His failure does not imply Australia will fail.

Similarly the bowling attack of India's has meant that the batsmen have always been under pressure in more times than not, unlike Australia where the mentality has been now matter what we score our bowlers will do the job.

I never stated in my argument that Ponting is "miles ahead" just that Tendulkar has delivered against the best in the world, unfortunately Ponting cannot prove that he could? :rolleyes:

The World Cup is a valid point, however there are many reasons, although same may call them excuses. In 92, he was only about 18, 96 was a disappointment, in 2000 his father passed away during the World Cup, in 04 I felt IMO the score board pressure destroyed their chances due to inept bowling.

In 08 it was a disaster.

To Tendulkar's credit he did deliver in the last tri series in Australia in 08 when he produced two glorious knocks in each final.

It would be interesting to compare Ponting V Tendulkar in World Cups.

Overall though Tendulkar ODI career is >>>>>>>> Ponting.

I think the World Cup in 2011 will define Tendulkar.

[The Falcon Strike]

Another point that is very very valid in this argument, is that Ponting has had the "luxury", of being in a powerhouse team, again no fault of his, but the fact remains there is more pressure on Tendulkar than Ponting has ever had to face.

For a long time, it has been if Tendulkar fails then so does team India. Australia has been blessed with batsmen hence the pressure on Ponting is very different. His failure does not imply Australia will fail.

Similarly the bowling attack of India's has meant that the batsmen have always been under pressure in more times than not, unlike Australia where the mentality has been now matter what we score our bowlers will do the job.

I never stated in my argument that Ponting is "miles ahead" just that Tendulkar has delivered against the best in the world, unfortunately Ponting cannot prove that he could? :rolleyes:

The World Cup is a valid point, however there are many reasons, although same may call them excuses. In 92, he was only about 18, 96 was a disappointment, in 2000 his father passed away during the World Cup, in 04 I felt IMO the score board pressure destroyed their chances due to inept bowling.

In 08 it was a disaster.

To Tendulkar's credit he did deliver in the last tri series in Australia in 08 when he produced two glorious knocks in each final.

It would be interesting to compare Ponting V Tendulkar in World Cups.

Overall though Tendulkar ODI career is >>>>>>>> Ponting.

I think the World Cup in 2011 will define Tendulkar.

In ODI's I'd say that Ponting is ahead - it's all about how you perform on the big stage - and Ponting has shone - Tendulkar has been ordinary at best - and that over 15 years !

Using an AFL analogy - Tendulkar's World Cup Records is akin to that of Leon Davis - awesome until comes to rough and tumble of finals cricket.

The rest are excuses - as it the powerhouse team. Hadlee was a superstar in a poor team, Lara dominated in a weak team, Ponting dominates in a great team, Muralitharan dominates in weak team, Warne dominates in a great team.

[crownie]

Another point that is very very valid in this argument, is that Ponting has had the "luxury", of being in a powerhouse team, again no fault of his, but the fact remains there is more pressure on Tendulkar than Ponting has ever had to face.


its not a valid arguement. Ponting was the best bat in the team so he rode no coattails and that arguement would only be useful for the guys who batted 5 and 6.

The Ponting having the benifit of Langer/Hayden is a myth as Pontings record is exceptional when he has had to come to the crease when the score was under 20.

Tendulkar over the last 2 years has scored plenty of cheap runs benifiting from the form of Sehwag and Gambhir.

[Cooldude]

over the journey - since ponting has debuted - Tendulkar has averaged just above ponting against the same attacks around the world in test cricket.

In ODI cricket Tendulkar has regularly failed at the pointy end of world cup finals or super six stages. This isn't just one finals game - this is over 4 world cup series - he simply hasn't performed when it counts, with the exception of one innings against powerhousse Kenya. Ponting on the other hand has - and lead his team to victory by his actions - this is being conveniently ignored.

Tendulkar averages 39 against SA and 43 against Pakistan. Ponting lowest average against any team is India at 47 - that is remarkable consistency against all comers. If we are talking about cheap runs - do we dismiss Tendulkar's 800 odd runs at 130 against bangladesh and the 900 runs at 77 against zimbabwe ?

The argument that Tendulkar is a better batsman is redundant - i don't disagree that he is better than ponting over the journey - but the argument that he is miles ahead is a fallacy.

1. That is a horrible way to use stats and makes no sense, I hope you actually used a bit of intelligence before thinking that stats is even valid.

First of all, it's been 14 years since Ponting debuted. It is a long time and both of them dominated at different periods. During the late 90s when the great bowlers were still around until 01 or so, Ponting averaged mid 40s throughout that period. Tendulkar was averaging 60+ during that same period.

Then when Ponting changed his career and started dominating from 2003 onwards, it was when a lot of those great bowlers have been out of the game and the bowling depth around the world was quite laughable. At the same period, Tendulkar started having tennis elbow troubles and was in and out of the game for the next few years. When Tendulkar came back from it after 05, he had a very lean year in 06, but started averaging back to 60+ thereafter.

If you just look at stats one dimensionally, you are gonna miss a lot of things.

2. The times when Tendulkar batted against those two nations were different to Ponting's. Tendulkar came against them when their bowlers were at their peak, Ponting started plundering those sides in the mid 0s when their bowling was a shambles. The comparison isn't exactly worth making at all. Even if Tendulkar's record against those two were fairly below his career average, he has been famous for playing some great innings against both those nations. Refer to earlier posts about how highly the 90s Saffers rated Tendulkar

And surely you cannot ignore Tendulkar's imperious record against Australia home and away, the best bowling attack in the world for the past 15 years (by a long way), which Ponting never had to bat against?

3. Ponting isn't even better than Lara, which makes the comparison quite irrelevant for mine, but that is my own opinion. You can crap on about "fallcy" in any argument, just as I can tell you that your argument falls to MANY fallacies as I have pointed out here.

[Cooldude]

In ODI's I'd say that Ponting is ahead - it's all about how you perform on the big stage - and Ponting has shone - Tendulkar has been ordinary at best - and that over 15 years !

Using an AFL analogy - Tendulkar's World Cup Records is akin to that of Leon Davis - awesome until comes to rough and tumble of finals cricket.

The rest are excuses - as it the powerhouse team. Hadlee was a superstar in a poor team, Lara dominated in a weak team, Ponting dominates in a great team, Muralitharan dominates in weak team, Warne dominates in a great team.

What a rubbish argument, Tendulkar failed in ONE world cup final and you are gonna use that to judge his entire ODI career? The bloke has been famous for standing up to the Australians in quite a few ODI series that they played and was the sole difference. Were you alive back in Sharjah? Or his most recent ODI tour here?

Seeing as you have been quite stats heavy in your argument, surely Tendulkar's ODI record which is far and away eclipses Ponting's (Even just by comparing centuries, Tendulkar is far more exceptional.) Tendulkar also opens in ODIs for his entire career, it makes quite a huge difference. You wouldn't even have ground to stand on if you try to argue against Tendulkar being the better ODI batsman

If you're gonna use the "big stage" card, at least apply it consistently to both Tests and ODIs, otherwise you just look very selective

[Ferris_rules]

What a rubbish argument, Tendulkar failed in ONE world cup final and you are gonna use that to judge his entire ODI career? The bloke has been famous for standing up to the Australians in quite a few ODI series that they played and was the sole difference. Were you alive back in Sharjah? Or his most recent ODI tour here?

Seeing as you have been quite stats heavy in your argument, surely Tendulkar's ODI record which is far and away eclipses Ponting's (Even just by comparing centuries, Tendulkar is far more exceptional.) Tendulkar also opens in ODIs for his entire career, it makes quite a huge difference. You wouldn't even have ground to stand on if you try to argue against Tendulkar being the better ODI batsman

If you're gonna use the "big stage" card, at least apply it consistently to both Tests and ODIs, otherwise you just look very selective


Well articulated in both your comments. :thumbsu:

I just couldnt have been stuffed to explain that his rationale and explanations were inaccurate to say the least.

Simple fact, is that Tendulkar has clearly proven he can face and deal with the best bowlers in the world, again not Pontings fault, but he has not proven that. Again as I say Sachin has the runs on the board.

[Ill Chicken]

???

Ponting in teams 2nd Innings - 3411 runs @ 44.88 with 6 centuries (http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/7133.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=3;innings_n umber=4;orderby=start;template=results;type=allround;view=in nings)
Sachin in teams 2nd Innings - 3763 runs @ 42.76 with 12 centuries (http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=1;filter=advanced;innings_number=3;innings_ number=4;orderby=start;template=results;type=allround;view=i nnings)

Apologies I should have made it a little clearer.

Sachin averages 71 which descends to 36 in the last. That is a massive difference.