Australia vs West Indies - 4th test [Archive]

ScouseCat

9 May 2003, 14:41

Originally posted by Unwritten_Law
Give him a rest and play Love.

Love would have thought with Martyn out that he would get a chance but it was not to be. Being a dead rubber it doesn't matter too much and although the batting line-up would need re-jigging they might as well give him a go.

If they were going to do something like that, they should rest Gillespie or Lee and play Clarke. I just can't see us doing that... Steve Waugh will want to win 4-0 and really bury the West Indies while we have them on the ropes.

ScouseCat

10 May 2003, 00:08

Steve Waugh has won the toss and Australia will bat first in Antigua.

Ricky Ponting is out with a virus, Martin Love is in.

Ridley Jacobs and Mervyn Dillon are back for the West Indies.

JUBJUB

10 May 2003, 00:28

Aus 0/24

Black Thunder

10 May 2003, 00:30

last test underway.

4 overs gone, australia 0/20.

changes: Love (go LOVEY!!) in for Ponting for Australia. Dillon and Jacobs in for Best and Baugh.

Pitch is very hard, lots of pace and bounce, but very even so there is plenty of runs for the batsmen.

But there is plenty in it for the bowlers if they bowl a good line and length, but it is quite likely that it could flatten and just become another absolute road (could be wrong, but going off what we've seen so far in this series that is the likely path).

Dillon and Lawson are getting a bit of pace up (particularly Lawson) but they are very wayward, and Hayden and Langer are punishing them at the moment.

and once again Lara has gone quite defensive already - gully is already out, and there is no short leg, while a man is at deep backward square already.

Black Thunder

10 May 2003, 00:34

Hayden out, to much pace for him and he didn't get onto quick enough. Skied one from Lawson.

He looks completely down on confidence, and he is very much a confidence player.

Black Thunder

10 May 2003, 00:38

Langer dropped AGAIN in slips.

Kenny_01

10 May 2003, 05:52

Australia struggling.

St-KriS

10 May 2003, 08:24

Australia all out for 240

Langer 42
Waugh 41
Love 36

Lawson 7/78

Windies are 2/47

Slax

10 May 2003, 13:05

Shocking batting display. Most of the top order got a start and no-one scored a 50. It is obvious though that the WI have discovered someone in Lawson. After a hat-trick in the previous test he has continued his good form.

Black Thunder

11 May 2003, 01:12

first horus play gone, 4/100 now

from the moment Lara came out about 20 minutes ago there has been non stop fireworks.

a face-to-face confrontation straight away before he had faced a ball with Matt Hayden, then Jason Gillespie, Steve Waugh and Darren Lehmann have been the main protoganists.

Lara seems a bit flustered, but is on his way to about 20 at a run a ball.

No doubt the Aussies are getting stuck into him about his "mystery illness" (aka hangover) from the 3rd test.

Black Thunder

11 May 2003, 01:43

5/137 now - Sarwan just got caught and bowled by Bichel.

Lara is still there and looks very dangerous. MUST get him soon.

Black Thunder

11 May 2003, 02:00

Chanderpaul has just been bowled, 6/140 now, so Australia have the slight advantage, but by no means is it game breaking.

Fall Out Boy

11 May 2003, 07:35

After bowling the Windies out for 240, we're 0-151 in reply.

Finally Hayden and Langer have put together one of their big partnerships.

Hayden was quite scratchy early, but has really hit out in the last 20 minutes.

We've actually scored 44 off the last 4 overs, pretty special for a Test Match.

St-KriS

11 May 2003, 08:02

And at stumps, Australia are 0/171

Langer 80 no
Hayden 79 no

Btw, You've gotta feel sorry for that banks fella. The windies fielders always drop his catches. He'd have much better figures for this series if someone actually held on to one for a change.

Black Thunder

11 May 2003, 09:40

Originally posted by St-KriS
Btw, You've gotta feel sorry for that banks fella. The windies fielders always drop his catches. He'd have much better figures for this series if someone actually held on to one for a change.

I feel more sorrie for the Windies if that is their future in terms of spin.

Can't wait to see the replay. Why on earth did Lara keep Banks on for so long??

JUBJUB

11 May 2003, 11:11

Originally posted by Black Thunder
first horus play gone, 4/100 now

from the moment Lara came out about 20 minutes ago there has been non stop fireworks.

a face-to-face confrontation straight away before he had faced a ball with Matt Hayden, then Jason Gillespie, Steve Waugh and Darren Lehmann have been the main protoganists.

Was Lara caught behind off Gillespie when he was about 19 ? There was certaintly a big noise and his bat was nowhere near his pads.

That seemed to fire things up & David Sheperd had to intervene.

Slax

11 May 2003, 12:16

Even if he was JUBJUB I don't think the Aussies (excluding Gilchrist) have the right to argue about it. During the Ashes series the Pommes got that many bad decission it wasn't funny. I think Hayden has been reported to the match referee.

Fall Out Boy

11 May 2003, 22:43

Originally posted by Slax
I think Hayden has been reported to the match referee.

If that is the case, i certainly hope that Brian Lara also gets reported.

He was involved in at least four seperate incidents throughout the day.

Goldenblue

12 May 2003, 11:45

Australia 2nd innings
JL Langer c Lara b Gayle 111
ML Hayden run out (sub [CS Baugh]) 177
AC Gilchrist c sub (MN Samuels) b Banks 6
ML Love c sub (MN Samuels) b Banks 2
DS Lehmann b Dillon 14
SR Waugh not out 45
AJ Bichel c Smith b Dillon 0
B Lee c sub (SC Joseph) b Dillon 18
JN Gillespie c Lara b Drakes 5
SCG MacGill c Lara b Dillon 0
GD McGrath c Ganga b Drakes 14
Extras (b 4, lb 9, nb 12) 25
Total (all out, 104 overs) 417

FoW: 1-242 (Langer, 55.2 ov), 2-273 (Gilchrist, 62.2 ov),
3-285 (Love, 66.6 ov), 4-330 (Lehmann, 78.2 ov),
5-338 (Hayden, 80.2 ov), 6-343 (Bichel, 82.4 ov),
7-373 (Lee, 88.6 ov), 8-385 (Gillespie, 95.6 ov),
9-388 (MacGill, 96.5 ov), 10-417 (McGrath, 103.6 ov).

Bowling O M R W
Lawson 6 1 17 0
Dillon 29 3 112 4 (11nb)
Banks 37 5 153 2
Drakes 19 1 92 2 (1nb)
Gayle 13 1 30 1

West Indies 2nd innings (target: 418 runs)
CH Gayle not out 19
DS Smith not out 21
Extras (b 1, lb 4, nb 2) 7
Total (0 wickets, 22.1 overs) 47

Bowling O M R W
McGrath 5 3 2 0
Gillespie 5 3 6 0
Lee 6.1 1 15 0 (2nb)
MacGill 5 2 15 0
Bichel 1 0 4 0

JUBJUB

12 May 2003, 16:23

Is Chanderpaul a crap fielder ? For years he's been going off the ground when the Windies are fielding with "mystrey" injuries,only to have a decent fielder come on as a sub.

St-KriS

13 May 2003, 08:15

Australia are in trouble, looks like the Windies can pull off a major victory here.

Windies are 6/371 and only need 47 runs to win.

Sarwan - 105
Chanderpual - 103 no
Lara - 60

Btw, who thought there was going to be a riot when Jacobs was given out to a disgraceful decision? That was a shocker.

Black Thunder

13 May 2003, 09:14

well this is a turn up for the books.

I still think the match is very even giving Australias record of coming out in the morning session and blasting teams away.

2 wickets within 5 runs and the Windies are back on the ropes especially if Jacobs is out, but 50 runs isn't very far considering how far they have come.

This is the type of performance that will earn them respect rather than the first 3 dismal outings.

But once again, Australia have shown their big weakness - inability to control themselves under pressure. They all go on about how hard of a team they are, but when the opposition batsmen get stuck in a for a while, they completely lose the plot, particularly McGrath and Lee. It's definetaly the way to beat this team - value your wicket like its your life because if a pair can bat for an hour, they get a little bit touchy. A pair bats for 2 hours and they do start to get very upset and you can bat for a long time.

Yianni

13 May 2003, 09:23

This was on the cards, just because I can't remember the last time we whitewashed a series!

We always lose one somewhere, and it's ALWAYS after the series is won! Bloody ridiculous!

EagleBlue

13 May 2003, 10:06

Problem is, Aus dont even look like getting a wicket. Sarwan and Lara both threw their wickets away and Jacobs got a very poor decision which resulted in bottles being thrown onto the ground, causing about a 10 min delay. The only bowler that looked dangerous was Lee and Waugh seemed reluctant to use him. McGill bowled absolute crap and Waugh kept bowling him, yet Lee, who was clearly the most dangerous bowler only bowled 13 overs for the entire day. McGrath and Gillespie only bowled one 6 over spell each in the first 2 sessions then not suprisingly they bowled crap and got carted in the last session, yet they both bowled more overs than Lee. Lee and Gillespie MUST start off proceedings tonight for Aus to win

Jim Boy

13 May 2003, 11:22

So what did Sarwan say to McGrath?? Something about his wife maybe? (pure speculation on my part)

EagleBlue

13 May 2003, 11:50

Would have to have been something bad you would think given the aggressive way McGrath reacted. Certainly did NOT look good from McGrath, no matter what was said, especially his finger pointing and aggressive tone towards not only Sarwan but umpire Shephard as well. Remember Michael Slater got crucified (well, by everyone but the Incompetent Cricket Council) for his ugly verbal towards Dravid a few years ago. Different type of incident sure, but still did not look good.

DaveW

13 May 2003, 12:40

Originally posted by Yianni
This was on the cards, just because I can't remember the last time we whitewashed a series!

We always lose one somewhere, and it's ALWAYS after the series is won! Bloody ridiculous! We've whitewashed a few lately (including the last series against the Windies), but always at home (v Ind 3-0 & v Pak 3-0 1999/2000, v WI 5-0 2000/01, v SAf 3-0 2001/02).

red+black

13 May 2003, 13:30

Originally posted by Black Thunder
2 wickets within 5 runs and the Windies are back on the ropes especially if Jacobs is out, but 50 runs isn't very far considering how far they have come.
You didn't mean Jacobs did you?

I think this test is gone. They may lose 1 wicket, that'd be it. I think the writing was on the wall when we failed to make a decent score in the 2nd innings. 417 is a good score, but not so good when the team are 0/242 and from then on, no one makes a 50. So much for winning and having an extra day's rest. We won't get either luxury.

Black Thunder

13 May 2003, 13:45

yea sorry, I meant Chanderpaul not Jacobs :p

this test is far from gone just yet - how often do we see the Aussies come out firing on the first morning of a day.

No doubt I'll be up and watching this one come to end :) no work tomorrow yaaay :)

Jars458

13 May 2003, 14:10

Originally posted by EagleBlue
Would have to have been something bad you would think given the aggressive way McGrath reacted.

Why?

McGrath becomes agressive and inflamed at the drop of a hat.

Once again when the match is a contest Australia get invovled in ugly sledging and finger pointing incidents. We have a bad attitude and seem to struggle to cope with losing.

The worst part of the day for me was Lee's appeal against Jacobs. It was clear it his is arm and Lee charged down the pitch like a mad thing and only turned around to look at theumpire when he was nearly level with the batsmen. Borderline cheating in my view

Full marks to Ridley Jacobs for accpeting such a bad decision so well.

If the Windies win I will not be displeased.

Aussies need to improved their sportsmanship and behaviour.

jordy23

13 May 2003, 17:09

welldone jacobs for taking it on the chin for that rediciolous umpiring descion and well done to the west indies for not falling in a hole for that like they would useally do so i think they will win and it will set up a great one day series i hope

EagleBlue

13 May 2003, 18:50

scmods

13 May 2003, 19:12

At least Martin Love has guaranteed his Test career will be remembered for something...

Macca19

13 May 2003, 19:13

Originally posted by Jim Boy
So what did Sarwan say to McGrath?? Something about his wife maybe? (pure speculation on my part)

It looked like Mcgrath said 'If you ****ing say anything about my ****ing wife again.....'

Black Thunder

13 May 2003, 19:44

just a note on the Lee incident, RE Jars comments - I think thats a bit harsh on him.

I know he does all the time run down the wicket then turn around, but in this case the catch hadn't even been taken.

What he gonna do?? Stand and appeal before the catch has been taken??

When i saw your initial comments I hadn't seen the wicket, so I just presumed it was Lee doing his usual trick, but in this case it's quite harsh on him.

He ran down the wicket while the ball went in the air, kind of yelling at Gilly to catch it and as soon as the catch was taken he turned around and appeal.

Slax

13 May 2003, 20:32

I reckon it went something along the lines of

McGrath: take care of yourself
Sarwan: why do you take care of your wife

He's not known for sledging.

Anyway if the Aussies win they can thank the umpires again.

RogerMellie

13 May 2003, 22:08

My crack at lip-reading yielded "'If you f_cking say anything about my f_cking wife again I'll rip your f_cking throat out".

red+black

13 May 2003, 22:20

they talked about the incident on Melbourne radio, I guess none of us know the full story. but on 3aw, they think that mcgrath was having a go at sarwan, something about implying that he was gay and that he gets it on behind closed doors with lara. and mcgrath asked sarwan how's lara wink wink nudge nudge. and he replied, i don't know, why don't you ask your wife.

assuming just for a second that that's what happened, then mcgrath is in the wrong for blowing his lid. so what if sarwan mentioned his wife in this context. it's a throwaway line, nothing to do with jane's cancer. who knows if sarwan knows anything about mcgrath's wife.

not knowing the full truth, but if i were a betting man, i'd say ooh aah is in the wrong. the aussies are such sooks.

red+black

13 May 2003, 22:37

Originally posted by scmods
At least Martin Love has guaranteed his Test career will be remembered for something...
players have dropped catches in the past, and will do so in the future. but i was and still am really dirty on him for missing that sitter. don't know why.

K9-54

13 May 2003, 22:43

Originally posted by Jars458
The worst part of the day for me was Lee's appeal against Jacobs. It was clear it his is arm and Lee charged down the pitch like a mad thing and only turned around to look at theumpire when he was nearly level with the batsmen. Borderline cheating in my view

Less clear to the Australians than it was to the umpire and he gave it out (though he was wrong of course). Lee's view would have been worse than the umpire's as he was in his follow through. Those behind couldn't really tell.

And as pointed out, Lee could well have been level with the batsmen when the catch was completed.

I'm not sure how appealing while running away from the umpire is worse than appealing by turning, pacing back towards the umpire while screaming and pointing at him, a la Drakes.

I'd prefer they did the umpire the courtesy of waiting on the decision before running around wildly, but I don't think the Aussies are worse than others in this regard.

If you want to be critical, there's better issues (or examples) than this one to pick.

13 May 2003, 23:01

Originally posted by Slax

Anyway if the Aussies win they can thank the umpires again.

Bull****!

For all you know Jacobs could've been out next ball anyway!

The umpire stuffed up here not the Aussies, how many test wins do we actually have to thank them for exactly?

Name them!

Jealousy's a curse mate.

Still backing the cleam sweep btw :D

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 00:14

first overs gone from DIzzy, 5 balls left by Chanderpaul, second ball played and missed and went tantalizingly (sp?) close to Chanderpaul's outside edge. Maiden Over

Bing Lee bowled the second over to Omari Banks and he looks fired up - bowling quick from the very first ball. Banks looking quite solid and prepared to get behind the ball. Last ball was a good short one to Banks - looked a little uncomfortable but got behind it OK. another maiden.

47 runs to go.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 00:21

GONE GONE GONE

CHANDERPAUL CAUGHT BEHIND FROM LEE

1 run added off Gillespie's last, Omari Banks had a wild slash that just missed the edge.

First ball next over Lee gets the edge of Chanderpaul playing a ball to far away from his body.

HUGE WICKET.

46 runs to go and only 3 wickets in hand now.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 00:35

another 2 overs gone, making it 6 for the day and a few more runs added.

Banks and Drakes very tentative, as one would expect.

Look to be trying to tie up Drakes on the off side.

41 runs to go.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 00:44

Bouncer from Gillespie saw Drakes sky a hook shot but fell a fair bit wide of Gilchrist, but could've gone anywhere. That was the only run from his over.

Lee gave him another bouncer first up next over which produced a wild unconnecting hook. first boundary of the morning next ball from an inside edge between fine leg and deep backward square.

another couple of runs later on from Lee's. Need another wicket just to give some breathing space. 7 of that over.

33 runs to go.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 00:54

Drakes slashed a ball from Gillespie. Doesn't look to be holding back - drakes could be the wicket man.

Banks hits a four off Gillespie later just beating a diving Bichel - looked like he had it but it just got away from him. Wickets are now need big time, under 30 runs now.

Looks like MacGill is coming on - his warming up and Maher has a helmet and thigh pads ready.

6 runs off Dizzy's over. 27 runs to go now.

MacGill coming on - make or break time here.

Banks is 34 not out now - how crucial is Love's drop looking now :(

Dont know what the point of the helmet was as noone has it on - maybe Lehmann will take only for Drakes.

Edge just went past Haydens right hand by no more than 2 inches and beat Langer by abou a foot for four - what a game of inches.

only runs from the over

23 to go now.

DaveW

14 May 2003, 01:02

What a six! Drakes down on knee, smashed MacGill over long on.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:02

maiden over from Gillespie, with another wild slash from Drakes off the last ball - we look like we can get him at anytime.

MacGill bowling with some pretty good control so far - first 8 balls all been on a spot.

McGrath can prove his greatness if he is brought on here.

first lose ball from MacGill but wasn't that bad and only went for a single.

here we go, this could be it. hopefully a wild swing from Drakes will result in a skier (hopefully not a 4!!).

just as I thought, the helmet is being used for Drakes.

bit of a shout first ball to him but clearly hitting outside the line.

There it is, the big swing i was predicting but it resulting in the 6 I was hoping not for - it went on top of the grandstand on the leg side boundary :(

16 runs to go.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:07

once again Gillespie just beats the outside edge of Banks but didn't carry to Gilly anyway. Need a wicket bigtime.

inside edge of the third ball but misses the stumps and an easy single. this is getting real tense now.

as expected a bouncer straight up to drakes but he let it go this time. Another bouncer but leaves it as it way well off the mark.

big question here for Waugh - will he keep MacGill on?? I reckon one more over if Drakes is on strike.

another inside edge and this one goes for 4 past Gilchrist. frustrating here.

11 runs to go

Drinks break

Kenny_01

14 May 2003, 01:09

Why the **** did Steve Waugh take Lee off? He was looking dangerous, and had only bowled about 4 overs.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:09

McGrath has to come on now actually - not enough runs to play with MacGill and Banks is now on strike who will handle him comfortably.

McGrath is the best bowler in the world, even if he is underdone, he's your goto man here.

Wouldn't it be unbeliavable if he takes a hat trick or something.

DaveW

14 May 2003, 01:09

Urgh, bottom edge by Drakes off Gillespie, rolls away to the fine leg boundary. :(

Kenny_01

14 May 2003, 01:10

Put Lee back on.

The Floodbuster

14 May 2003, 01:10

Drinks, Australia look gone.

I say it is time to go for the gauntlet, bring back Lee.
If Macgill contuinues we are gone.

The Floodbuster

14 May 2003, 01:12

Sheperd says no to a plum LBW. :confused:

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:13

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Why the **** did Steve Waugh take Lee off? He was looking dangerous, and had only bowled about 4 overs.

yea that was a bit suprising - I would've thought Gillespie shuld've gone off because he didn't look penetrating.

McGill just coneeded a run, two lbw shouts in a row to Drakes - first one looked very out and it was, but no one really went out. second one wasn't out.

10 to go.

good flipper next ball just got under the edge of the bat but to no avail.

I can't believe how man play and misses there have been in an hour's play.

Replay of the lbw - that was defientalty out, but it couldn't give it when no one goes up.

1 run from the over.

10 to go.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:15

Here we go McGrath on.

I'm not to worried about MacGill - he's 3 overs have been good and that 6 of Drakes really could've gone anywhere. Thats the shots you want to see tailenders play, it just happened that he connected. He had no idea if that was a wrong'un or a flipper.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:19

one run from the McGrath over. Match still not over - the pressureon Dillon will be incredible if he has to come out with 6 to go.

McGill still on. This is it. He needs a wicket.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:20

ooooooooooo mcgill, 4 runs down fine leg.

another big shout next ball for no answer.

5 to go.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:21

one run - ball reaches the boundary and we lose now.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:22

Windies win by 3 wickets. what a great chase.

DaveW

14 May 2003, 01:22

That was an awful full toss to Banks to concede a single, if the shot was slightly better directed it would have been four.

And now Drakes cuts a long hop to the boundary and win the match. :(

Well done West Indies.

The Floodbuster

14 May 2003, 01:23

Too many dropped catches, lacklustre bowling have costed Australia.
Martin Love's efforts appalling, but still a convincing 3-1 series win to Australia.
Scenes similar to Kenya beating Sri-Lanka in the world cup.

ajackett110

14 May 2003, 01:27

I want warney back!

Or at least a spinner that can pitch the ball in decent areas!

No full tosses or long-hops...

Guess that rules MacGill out!

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:29

what a test!!!

Well done to the Windies. Those soughts of chases are inspirational and what will give them the respect that they crave. Sarwan and Chanderpaul played 2 of the best innings you could hope to see.

From an Aussie point of view, dissapointing to lose defending such a big total, and once again we fall short in a test that had no bearing on the series results. I am very disapointed at losing and I hope its not washed off as "oo well, we had the series won anyway" because that type of attitude shouldn't be taken.

Once again though, we have been found out when we go more than 60 minutes without taking a wicket. Teams must surely have worked out how to beat this team - you place unlimited value on your wicket. Even if your not getting runs, the Aussies HATE not getting wickets, and if they have to wait more than an hour they really start to crack the ****s. You keep them out for 2 hours and they really get ****ed. Get a back-to-back partnership and you could notch up a huge score against them.

Well done to Omari Banks - his bowling has been pretty rank during the series, but his batting has been very good for a low-mid order player, and his ability to handle that pressure for 20 years old is incredible.

Rating this test match out of 10 - you couldn't find it hard not to give it a 10. It had everything. Encounters, top hundreds, a 7-for, a world record chase.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:31

Originally posted by ajackett110
I want warney back!

Or at least a spinner that can pitch the ball in decent areas!

No full tosses or long-hops...

Guess that rules MacGill out!

these don't exactly grow on trees - aside from Warne, Grimmett and O'Reilly, you'd struggle to find a leg spinner who can land the ball in decent areas constantly.

As i said in another thread, if MacGill hadn't live in Warne's shadow so much, he would've been regarded as the best leg spinner in Australia outside of those 3, with perhaps only Benaud infront of him.

sandeano

14 May 2003, 01:34

As much as I was barracking for the Aussies, this is the best possible result for world cricket. Just watching the scenes of jubilation is evidence of how much good this will do the confidence of the West Indies teram and supporters and I can bet it would have been closely observed by other cricketing nations too.

To chase and get the highest target of all time against one of the greatest teams of all team, especially one that has pumped you three tests in a row is a remarkable achievement.

Good on 'em.

El Scorcho

14 May 2003, 01:44

Originally posted by Black Thunder
these don't exactly grow on trees - aside from Warne, Grimmett and O'Reilly, you'd struggle to find a leg spinner who can land the ball in decent areas constantly.

Well what are we waiting for!!!! As far as I know, only one of those three is suspended.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 01:51

Originally posted by El Scorcho
Well what are we waiting for!!!! As far as I know, only one of those three is suspended.

:D:D

Kenny_01

14 May 2003, 01:57

Great win to Windies. It was good seeing them all have big smiles on their faces so I was happy even though the Aussies lost.

red+black

14 May 2003, 05:29

Originally posted by Black Thunder
Rating this test match out of 10 - you couldn't find it hard not to give it a 10. It had everything. Encounters, top hundreds, a 7-for, a world record chase.
and a chucker

Desredandwhite

14 May 2003, 07:46

Well, some you win.. some you lose. Good on the Windies - when it takes a record performance to beat you, you can't really be too displeased (shades of Laxman in India). Gives Ponting something to aim for when he leads the team there in 4 years ;)

On the subject of MacGill, didn't he get MOTM a week ago? I doubt you'll find a leggie with as much control as Warnie for many many years to come - and MacGilla is going to have the odd shocker in between terrorising batsmen! He's that sort of bowler. Good series, lads - 3-1 in the Carribean is a fair effort.

Grendel

14 May 2003, 09:43

Originally posted by red+black
and a chucker

Lee's been cleared.

goaldrush

14 May 2003, 11:16

I was shocked at the West Indian team's behaviour and at how they were sledging the Australian players.

I am ashamed of the Windies using Glenn McGrath's wife's illness as an excuse for sledging.:mad: :mad:

Jars458

14 May 2003, 11:25

Originally posted by goaldrush
I was shocked at the West Indian team's behaviour and at how they were sledging the Australian players.

I am ashamed of the Windies using Glenn McGrath's wife's illness as an excuse for sledging.:mad: :mad:

Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone

McGrath has cast so many stones who he could build a causeway.

McGrath is a bully who can start it and dish it out but who can't take it back. Very poor form.

goaldrush

14 May 2003, 11:52

Originally posted by Jars458
Let he who hath not sinned cast the first stone

McGrath has cast so many stones who he could build a causeway.

McGrath is a bully who can start it and dish it out but who can't take it back. Very poor form. This time it wasn't McGrath's fault. "Pidge" is not a bully.

Put yourself in his shoes and think if your wife was sick and it was used as an excuse for sledging, would you like it?

Jars458

14 May 2003, 12:24

Originally posted by goaldrush
This time it wasn't McGrath's fault. "Pidge" is not a bully.

Put yourself in his shoes and think if your wife was sick and it was used as an excuse for sledging, would you like it?

Yes he did start it and yes he is a bully.

He said Sarwan was gay and was doing Brian up the butt in the bike sheds.

Sarwan's retort was funnier. This is what enraged McGrath.

If you give it out. You must be able to take it.

Wicked Lester

14 May 2003, 13:44

There is some suggestion in the media that even several of McGrath's teammates were embarrassed at his reaction and subsequently went out of their way to congratulate Sarwan when he completed his century.

timelord

14 May 2003, 15:50

There is a right way to sledge - and a wrong way.

It doesn't matter what McGrath may have said in the past, the comment passed about his wife was TOTALLY out of line - and should be apologised for by the West Indies.

Anyway, McGrath isn't the only sledger in the side. Lehmann does it. So does Gillespie and Lee.

Sledging isn't nice, but as long as the players get on with the game I think it's OK. But the West Indies went WAY too far with Glenn's wife. WAY too far!

Oh - and ALL fast bowlers are bullies!

Ripper

14 May 2003, 16:16

Mc Grath should have stayed Home , all he has done since he got there is upset the team balance.
If Hoggy wasn,t 12th man he may have been the difference. (certainly a different option).

And Bix may have got a bowl on the last day.

red+black

14 May 2003, 16:58

Originally posted by goaldrush
I was shocked at the West Indian team's behaviour and at how they were sledging the Australian players.

I am ashamed of the Windies using Glenn McGrath's wife's illness as an excuse for sledging.:mad: :mad:
you as usual don't have a clue. keep out of that which you know nothing about (ie. everything)

red+black

14 May 2003, 16:58

Originally posted by timelord
There is a right way to sledge - and a wrong way.

It doesn't matter what McGrath may have said in the past, the comment passed about his wife was TOTALLY out of line - and should be apologised for by the West Indies.

Anyway, McGrath isn't the only sledger in the side. Lehmann does it. So does Gillespie and Lee.

Sledging isn't nice, but as long as the players get on with the game I think it's OK. But the West Indies went WAY too far with Glenn's wife. WAY too far!

Oh - and ALL fast bowlers are bullies!
i think you need to explain yourself. what do you think sarwan said?

Wicked Lester

14 May 2003, 17:13

Originally posted by timelord
There is a right way to sledge - and a wrong way.

It doesn't matter what McGrath may have said in the past, the comment passed about his wife was TOTALLY out of line - and should be apologised for by the West Indies.

I thought this had been cleared up today - Sarwan did not bring Mrs McGrath's illness into the sledging in any way whatsoever.

McGrath implied Sarwan was engaging in "unnatural acts" with Brian Lara, at which point Sarwan pointed out that he was not interested in Brian but was instead enjoying the company of Glenn's wife - at least that's the basic story if you believe an article in today's Age newspaper.

Glenn then threatened to murder Sarwan. the article went on to suggest several of the Australian players felt McGrath had gone overboard in his reaction.

If you dish it out, you have to be prepared to take it.

red+black

14 May 2003, 17:27

more idiots who know **** all about anything

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,6434411%255E1702,00.html

PRIME Minister John Howard has sprung to the defence of Glenn McGrath after the Australian fast bowler's ugly on-field exchange with West Indian batsman Ramnaresh Sarwan.

The pair clashed verbally in the fourth cricket Test in Antigua when McGrath apparently overreacted to a sledging exchange with Sarwan, who had made a reference to McGrath's wife Jane, who has cancer.

After the exchange, the Australian Cricket Board called on the Australian team to improve its behaviour.

However, Mr Howard said today he understood McGrath's reaction, and that it was "a very natural Australian thing to do".

While admitting he didn't know the exact sequence of events, Mr Howard told Melbourne radio station 3AW: "Well I've read, I mean if somebody did say something about his wife then I would understand fully his reaction.

I'm thankful that Australia's future captain was not involved in this test.

Notice the wording of who had made a reference to McGrath's wife Jane, who has cancer.

It doesn't say who had made a reference to McGrath's wife Jane's cancer.

There IS a difference.

EagleBlue

14 May 2003, 17:32

Originally posted by Jars458
Yes he did start it and yes he is a bully.

He said Sarwan was gay and was doing Brian up the butt in the bike sheds.

Sarwan's retort was funnier. This is what enraged McGrath.

If you give it out. You must be able to take it.

And you know this for sure do you ????? You were out there were you ???????

When your wife has a life threatening illness I will sledge you about it and see how you take it you cretin !!!!

red+black

14 May 2003, 17:35

what's an even bigger joke is that steve waugh and glenn mcgrath will go unpunished. mcgrath deserves a 2 test ban for being a violent sook, and steve, well he just needs to be told two words "Ricky Ponting".

here's some definitions of sociopath:

- a person who is completely unable or unwilling to behave in a way that is acceptable to society
- a person, such as a psychopath, whose behavior is aggressively antisocial
- capable of violent acts without guilt feelings

way to go glenn.

red+black

14 May 2003, 17:40

Originally posted by EagleBlue
And you know this for sure do you ????? You were out there were you ???????

When your wife has a life threatening illness I will sledge you about it and see how you take it you cretin !!!!

go to news.google.com and do a search.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/13/1052591791485.html

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/05/13/1052591791497.html

But, rumours that Sarwan, a player well liked by the Australians, had callously turned Jane McGrath's serious condition into a piece of on-field psychology were later proved incorrect.

Sources later confirmed McGrath had baited Sarwan with a hackneyed, lewd taunt alleging unnatural relations between the young batsman and his captain Brian Lara, and Sarwan had quickly responded with an equally well-worn comeback, bringing his antagonist's wife into the argument.

Later, McGrath was caught in close-up on television where he apparently said to Sarwan: "You mention my f...... wife again and I'll rip your f...... throat out."

and

Not for the first time, Steve Waugh failed comprehensively to pour cold water on these fraying tempers, a reluctance that must put his position in doubt. Far from intervening, he let matters run along and left it to the umpires to settle things down.

In the laws of cricket, it states that captains are responsible for ensuring that their players maintain the spirit of the game.

Jars458

14 May 2003, 17:57

Originally posted by EagleBlue
And you know this for sure do you ????? You were out there were you ???????

When your wife has a life threatening illness I will sledge you about it and see how you take it you cretin !!!!

If I call you a homosexual with a good friend of yours it would be fair comeback.

This was in a report which is as much information as is avaialable

we don't even know whether Sarwan said anything about his wife now do we.

EVen if he did say smoehting about his wife, who says it was about her illness?

My point is that McGrath has a histroy of going off like a pork chop.

Is it hard to believe that he started it????

McGrath has apologised and so has Sarwan. Good, they were both out of order.

Trying to rank silly personal insults in order of which is worse is fraught with danger.

Plus my post was a respnonse to Suzi and should be taken with a pinch of salt in any case.

Black Thunder

14 May 2003, 18:26

Originally posted by timelord

Oh - and ALL fast bowlers are bullies!

oooo come on don't have a cry ;)

Slax

14 May 2003, 21:33

I just want to know how the ACB can stand by Steve Waugh and his pathetic captaincy. Steve Waugh is a disgrace to the captaincy of the Australian team and those who have come before him.

Not for the first time did Steve Waugh as captain stand by whilst his players joined in with a team mate to heckle, abuse, sledge, reminstrate, etc.. with a opposing player. The captain is on the field and is responsible for the 10 players below him. Steve Waugh for his blatant failure to stop Langer and Gilchrist should be fined by the ACB for failure in his duties as captain. Technically he can also be reported by the ICC and fined (but that would never happen)

The sooner Steve Waugh is removed as Captain the sooner the Australian team get rid themselves of the title of the biggest sooks in world cricket. Because whenever an opposition player stand up and sledges back they go off like children, Glen McGrath would've given out a hell of a lot of abuse of his 94 match test career, but when Sarwan stands up and makes a comment back he threatens to knock his block off. McGrath is a bully and so is Langer.

The ACB has no balls and I say drop them both for a match publicly during the ODI series and try and reign in the behaviour of the Australian team.

harry_hawka

14 May 2003, 23:41

Originally posted by Slax
I just want to know how the ACB can stand by Steve Waugh and his pathetic captaincy. Steve Waugh is a disgrace to the captaincy of the Australian team and those who have come before him.

Not for the first time did Steve Waugh as captain stand by whilst his players joined in with a team mate to heckle, abuse, sledge, reminstrate, etc.. with a opposing player. The captain is on the field and is responsible for the 10 players below him. Steve Waugh for his blatant failure to stop Langer and Gilchrist should be fined by the ACB for failure in his duties as captain. Technically he can also be reported by the ICC and fined (but that would never happen)

The sooner Steve Waugh is removed as Captain the sooner the Australian team get rid themselves of the title of the biggest sooks in world cricket. Because whenever an opposition player stand up and sledges back they go off like children, Glen McGrath would've given out a hell of a lot of abuse of his 94 match test career, but when Sarwan stands up and makes a comment back he threatens to knock his block off. McGrath is a bully and so is Langer.

The ACB has no balls and I say drop them both for a match publicly during the ODI series and try and reign in the behaviour of the Australian team.

WHilst I don't agree with everything you said, I think you definitely bring up the same view as me.

Steve Waugh is a true competitor, he is gutsy and goes the hard yards - this is unquestionable. But I don't think he has fulfilled his role as captain and LEADER of the team.

I don't mind a bit of sledging here and there to keep the batsman on their toes, but I feel the Aussies have gone way over the top in the past few years. Maybe they have become very spoilt in the little dynasty of theirs, but some players need to wake up and see the real world. This constant "in your face" attitude of the Australians is both childish and its getting boring.

No longer does world cricket want to see a ruthless cricket team completely polverise their opponents with a "no holds barred" attitude. They want to see the best team of all time win convincingly, and with distinction and class. This starts with Steve Waugh (and succeeding captains) setting the example of sportsmanship, and taking things as they come. I would strongly doubt that other teams are going to carry on with constant "in your face" sledging against Australia if they are not getting the same treatment back.

Cricket needs 'fire in the belly' competitors, however, players need to cut back on this childish carry-on that continually occurs in world cricket. Australia are the biggest culprits, led mostly by captain Steve Waugh.

Darealrath

15 May 2003, 00:18

It's tw@ts like McGrath that make it impossible for me to support our cricket team. Nice job conceding a world record, tool.

Jars458

15 May 2003, 11:03

I can't see Ponting being any better

Thinking of his bat waiving incident wiht Mervyn Dillon earlier in the series in what was clearly accidental contact.

goaldrush

15 May 2003, 13:45

kretchy

15 May 2003, 14:54

Originally posted by goaldrush
Go and have another look at the video and you can lip read what Glenn has said.
What did he say?

Anyone know what McGrath said to Sarwan to begin with? Have heard rumours it was something about what Sarwan does in bed with Lara.

Holycrap

15 May 2003, 18:44

Originally posted by goaldrush
Go and have another look at the video and you can lip read what Glenn has said.

Hangon a minute.... McGarth has been mouthing off at Sarwan since he played the 3rd test!! He mouth's off at anyone who hits him for a boundary!
If he implied to me that l was having it off with my captain, l'd tell him not only did his wife enjoyed it but so did his mum! There's a difference between banter, which has been in the game for centuries, and out and out sledging. Unfortunately, this Aussie cricket side personalises it's sledges and anyone close to the batter is incourage to do so - is this called mental disintergration or plain bullying?

If you look at Gilchrist, who is probably the only true sportsman in that team, he looked disgusted at the whole conversation - even Langer.

The sooner Gilchrist is made captain the better, at least he shows sportmanship an walks when he knows he'd knicked it - not hang around and looks in disbelief when the ump raises it's finger like certain players do.

And to those who say the Windies, Pak's etc bullied or sledged us as bad during the 80's.....let's not forget that Thommo, Lillee, Marsh, Pascoe and Walters weren't angels either!
Difference back then was neither sides would continue on and on with it like it is today.

Slax

15 May 2003, 19:43

Originally posted by Jars458

I can't see Ponting being any better

But that alone is not a defence for Steve Waugh. Mark Taylor did control his team reasonably well (except Healy & McGrath). Fast bowlers will always be hard to control but I thought Taylor did well. Steve Waugh has not even tried. He refused to stop Lee when he was illegally bowling to the English tail-end (yes it was illegal and the ump should've removed him from the attack), and countless other times. Steve Waugh only cares about winning nothing else, which makes a poor captain.

Ponting if he was told by the ACB to pull the players heads in might well do it. At the moment anything is better than what we've got.

It'll be Sheffield Shield cricket only for me next summer.