View Full Version : McVeigh and Welsh
Red n Black Pride
3 Mar 2010, 15:22
Is it just me, or do these two seriously need to have good seasons... McVeigh was fantastic in 08 and it was thought he would naturally progress from there but it hasn't really happened for him. And Welsh, while his efforts in coming back from a serious leg injury were admirable, just seems to be treading water a bit.
I still think they're defintely worthy of persisting with and McVeigh in particular has runs on the board, but with the youngsters coming through they really need to step and be leaders or else they risk becoming old plodders and a headache for our list management.
I've heard that it was a player's decision to appoint Welsh as their vice captain, but i honestly think he is borderline best 22. I think he is too slow to provide any drive from midfield or to go back to his old position currently held by Slattery. He is limited to run-with/tagging roles and there will not always be a natural match-up. I think he is in a bit or strife to be honest. He was near on BOG in his return game against Judd last season, but was unsigted for the remainder of the season. He should not be assured a spot every week.
Ludwig van Bertstare
3 Mar 2010, 16:50
I've heard that it was a player's decision to appoint Welsh as their vice captain, but i honestly think he is borderline best 22. I think he is too slow to provide any drive from midfield or to go back to his old position currently held by Slattery. He is limited to run-with/tagging roles and there will not always be a natural match-up. I think he is in a bit or strife to be honest. He was near on BOG in his return game against Judd last season, but was unsigted for the remainder of the season. He should not be assured a spot every week.
Sums up my thoughts on Welsh.
McVeigh can be a good b-grade mid, and he deserves a chance. However, if he doesn't perform like he did in 07/08 then his position shouldn't be guaranteed like it appears to be at the moment.
Darealrath
3 Mar 2010, 19:00
I'm writing off McVeigh's season last year. Obviously stuffed by injury and never got going.
He's already proven to be an elite small defender and quite a good mid when he played there in '08. To be honest I'd like to see him play back permanently but I can see him having a good year in the midfield.
Welsh I'm not as confident about, especially if Hocking continues to improve but I love the way he goes about it and he brings a lot of intangibles that can go unnoticed. My main concern is having him, Hocking and Watson in the one midfield with the game style we are trying to play.
Frothies Mcveigh
3 Mar 2010, 19:03
McVeigh I think will hold his spot this year while I think Welsh will struggle.
windyhill
3 Mar 2010, 19:07
I think I`m over these two.We will never be contenders while they are commanding a regular senior gig.
Welsh gives us a hardened body and leadership in the middle. Both Welsh and McVeigh really need to up the ante in terms of their contested possession/clearance work - not good enough for senior inside midfielders ATM.
For those bagging him about his 2nd half of the season - do you realise what kind've injury he was coming back from? It would've put most players out for most of the year. I think he can be excused from having such a limited fitness base during the 2nd half of 2009.
ghostdog
3 Mar 2010, 19:21
The training reports I've read have suggested that McVeigh has been working hard. IIRC he recognised that he would need to put in a very strong pre-season to recapture his 2008 form. I don't think anyone was more disappointed in his 2009 performance than himself. I haven't lost faith in his commitment or ability.
Welsh's potential is there. Consistency isn't. Given the pressure of emerging youth, Welsh may need to step it up this year.
bipolarbeaR
3 Mar 2010, 21:34
If Welsh could find some major consistency he could become the best tagger in the AFL, needs to crab the ball less.
mark1881
4 Mar 2010, 07:16
Welsh can defintely do the tagging run with role, he just needs to be more damaging when we have the ball. He's also handy up forward, although with a limited injury list we seem to have plenty of options to run through that part of the ground.
McVeigh reminded me against Porplysia last year how good of a defender he is. He towled the Porpis up. This year I think you'll find we'll see him playing through the back half and occassionally through the midfield. Both have something to offer.
They'll both look a lot better when the team gets going.
McVeigh I think will hold his spot this year while I think Welsh will struggle.
This. You can't just have kids running through the middle, they will get pushed off the ball by bigger players. Against teams like Saints etc we'll need at least one of them and most likely both.
Ludwig van Bertstare
4 Mar 2010, 07:31
This. You can't just have kids running through the middle, they will get pushed off the ball by bigger players. Against teams like Saints etc we'll need at least one of them and most likely both.
That's why we upgrade the Italian Stallion.
McVeigh I think will hold his spot this year while I think Welsh will struggle.
I agree 100%. McVeigh is as hungry as ever this year and has a massive point to prove. On the inside he will be very angry with himself that he missed out on captaincy and we all know he bleeds red and black.
This year will be on par if not better than his 2008 season.
bomberfan101
4 Mar 2010, 08:37
The season hasn't even started yet and we are already saying players will be struggling to make the best 22? I mean sure, you could always go by last years form..but that is history!
Both players had interrupted preseasons / seasons. So my take on last year with these two, is that they didn't have the fitness they needed to run out the year. However, because of their status in the team, they were kept in the team.
Give them 2-4 weeks at the start of this year before we start saying they should be dropped, hmm?
I am confident that both players will have very decent years, especially Frothy!
I cannot believe that people are writing off these two already :mad:
They had injury interupted seasons last year, and at there best they are damaging players.
What about Welsh as a forward? try something different.
Both are easily in our best 22. Neither were anywhere near fit last year after injury killed their starts to the year. If McVeigh doesn't get back to his best in the midfield he will still be a very good defender. I recall him giving Porplizia and absolute hiding last year at Ethiad when Porplizia was coming off a rich vein of form.
Mad Bomber Sean
4 Mar 2010, 09:18
The central coast boy will want to prove a point thiz year - if his fitness is spot on I expect a return to his awesome 2008 form & that will mean a return to the midfield with occasional stopping roles in the back pocket.
A fully fit Welsh is a good & consistant player. If his post leg break fitness is strong ( to keep pace with the Judds etc ) he can be a very good tagger for us. Not too concerned if he does not do too much offensive damage when he is tagging - stopping the best mids in the biz is enough to more than hold his place in the team.
Expect both to bounce back after abysmal 2009's...
Red n Black Pride
4 Mar 2010, 10:32
Both are easily in our best 22. Neither were anywhere near fit last year after injury killed their starts to the year. If McVeigh doesn't get back to his best in the midfield he will still be a very good defender. I recall him giving Porplizia and absolute hiding last year at Ethiad when Porplizia was coming off a rich vein of form.
Not too sure about Welsh. Deserves until round 6 to show some form though.
Slattery_20
4 Mar 2010, 11:28
I think I`m over these two.We will never be contenders while they are commanding a regular senior gig.
Agree.
If we get to the stage where we're a good list, these guys (and a few others like Slattery etc) will be on the fringes getting the odd game. Ie your David Johnson type spot.
We've played our best footy in recent years with lots of youth.
The Donners
4 Mar 2010, 12:00
Is it just me, or do these two seriously need to have good seasons... McVeigh was fantastic in 08 and it was thought he would naturally progress from there but it hasn't really happened for him. And Welsh, while his efforts in coming back from a serious leg injury were admirable, just seems to be treading water a bit.
I still think they're defintely worthy of persisting with and McVeigh in particular has runs on the board, but with the youngsters coming through they really need to step and be leaders or else they risk becoming old plodders and a headache for our list management.
McVeigh played his most consistent footy from the backline, I loved seeing him in the back pocket against Melbourne last weekend, more of that to come I hope! :thumbsu:
Fletcher and McVeigh as the experienced heads with Pears, Hurley, Hooker and Dempsey... sorry Slatts.
Slattery_20
4 Mar 2010, 12:09
Donenrs I don't disagree on principle but I don't think we're there yet. I'm holding out for McVeigh to pick up fitness and get back in the guts. While it'd be great to be able to afford to tuck him (still IMHO our 3rd or 4th best midfielder) into a back pocket, I don't think we can just yet. If 2 or 3 of the young'uns come on in leaps and bounds in the middle, I'm all for McV back and Slatts out. Even if it's a rotation or managed thing between back pocket and midfield.
As far as I'm concerned, we can't avoid the fact that we need our earlier-picked midfielders of the last 3-4 drafts to come through. A lot rests on their backs.
The Donners
4 Mar 2010, 14:55
Donenrs I don't disagree on principle but I don't think we're there yet. I'm holding out for McVeigh to pick up fitness and get back in the guts. While it'd be great to be able to afford to tuck him (still IMHO our 3rd or 4th best midfielder) into a back pocket, I don't think we can just yet. If 2 or 3 of the young'uns come on in leaps and bounds in the middle, I'm all for McV back and Slatts out. Even if it's a rotation or managed thing between back pocket and midfield.
As far as I'm concerned, we can't avoid the fact that we need our earlier-picked midfielders of the last 3-4 drafts to come through. A lot rests on their backs.
Very true. I'm not completely sold on Myers but I'd like to see him given the opportunity, I think he has a very penetrative kick and (as someone pulled me up on! :rolleyes:) he has great "potential" with regards to using that as a WMD. I can only go by hearsay on his ability in close which coming from reports last year, Ant555 etc, which it was top notch - though VFL to AFL is obviously a big step. He could be the next Pendlebury... I love saying "the next <insert name>"! :D
P.S. I don't really! :thumbsd:
Strongly disagree with McVeigh being past it. if I could have two Mark McVeighs I would love to have them both in our best 22, one mid, one as a small back. IMO he is in our best 5-6 players still and will prove many wrong this year (in either position).
Agree on Welsh. Was disappointed he was named VC as its tough to drop a VC.
Slattery_20
5 Mar 2010, 06:10
Very true. I'm not completely sold on Myers but I'd like to see him given the opportunity, I think he has a very penetrative kick and (as someone pulled me up on! :rolleyes:) he has great "potential" with regards to using that as a WMD. I can only go by hearsay on his ability in close which coming from reports last year, Ant555 etc, which it was top notch - though VFL to AFL is obviously a big step. He could be the next Pendlebury... I love saying "the next <insert name>"! :D
P.S. I don't really! :thumbsd:
I went down and watched Bendigo 2 or 3 times last year when they were @ Windy hill. (I cbf getting to Bendigo). Myers, Daniher and the 1 game Hocking played were the only standouts. Unfortunately Myers got 2 little injuries in games he was doing really well in.
I think there's a lot of improvement available on what Welsh and McVeigh were offering us last year. Not necessarily past it but we have to look.
BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!
5 Mar 2010, 15:33
im not righting them off yet but worst case senario is woosh wont get another contract and spike could get traded to sydney to join his brother
Bombers36
5 Mar 2010, 20:47
Both better served in back pockets now. McVeigh occasionally to chop out in the middle when required, and if Welsh can tag so as long as back pockets their starting position and they are rotated in midfield/tagging roles we will do fine. If form warrants then they could spend more time in these roles but other guys like Winders, Stanton, Watson ahead of them now. Competing with the likes of Dyson, Prismall etc for midfiled spots others like Myers, Hocking, Lonergan coming througbh also. Cant see Welsh holding down a regular midfiled role, howvere McVeigh could suprise - his best is very good.
Ben the Gooner
5 Mar 2010, 20:54
Welsh is chronically underrated here. As much as "it was a player decision", anyone in danger of losing his spot would not be made vice captain.
FandangoDingo
6 Mar 2010, 01:45
I agree BtG. Welsh's injury was horrific and it's quite amazing he played any football at all last year. He was becoming a brilliant run-with/tagger before that and even totally shut-down Judd in one of his first games back (got 3 Brownlow votes too, IIRC). Plays a pretty important role for us and had been becoming more consistent before the broken leg.
I remember being pretty shattered when he got injured. I think some people have very short memories and I reckon he'll have a ripper year.
Same for Frothies... I like him having something to prove.
Go dons! :thumbsu: