View Full Version : The Mongoose Bat
Mr_Smooth
20 Mar 2010, 11:11
So, how long until the ICC bans this bat?
FWIW, I think it's a marvelous piece of woodwork! The power it seems to generate is phenomenal :thumbsu:
However, the fact they have a junior range I find a little disconcerting - http://www.mongoosecricket.com/bats/
Power21
20 Mar 2010, 11:58
It's legal so why ban it?
Could be revolutionary and change what bats we use, in 5 years it could be all mongooses.
stmookeyj
20 Mar 2010, 12:05
So after double sided blades and longer handles (much like a broomstick putter only the blade is shorter), what's next in cricket bats? Return of the scoop with the long handle Mongoose?
Illinois Nazi
20 Mar 2010, 12:12
in 5 years it could be all mongooses.
Mongeese.
:)
Should be allowed in T20, but not in any other form.
TheStinger
20 Mar 2010, 13:08
If you doubled the size of a bat, I could see the ICC having a problem with it. The bat would just be too big. But halving the size of a bat, can't see the harm in that.
Gazza_11
20 Mar 2010, 13:41
Hayden obviously had zero problems with it. Success.
King Elvis
20 Mar 2010, 14:53
Should be outlawed in all forms.
At least Haydos is at least using the more tradtional style Mongoose; I don't mind that one so much.
Notorious_29
20 Mar 2010, 15:58
No chance I would be buying one. I would imagine it would not take much to snap that handle.
King Elvis
20 Mar 2010, 18:17
No chance I would be buying one. I would imagine it would not take much to snap that handle.
Fair chance Matty Hayden hits the ball with more force than you do.
Notorious_29
20 Mar 2010, 18:53
Fair chance Matty Hayden hits the ball with more force than you do.
I mean that I don't think it would last over a long period of time. If I am spending $300+ on a bat I want it to last 3 years +. I doubt this bat would.
BarneyBent
21 Mar 2010, 00:36
No reason to ban it. It's not like it gives the batsmen a huge advantage all the time. Batsmen have to know how and when to use it, and be able to, and that is a skill in itself.
King Elvis
21 Mar 2010, 01:08
No reason to ban it. It's not like it gives the batsmen a huge advantage all the time. Batsmen have to know how and when to use it, and be able to, and that is a skill in itself.
Bowlers have it hard enough in T20 as it is, I don't think a batsman should be able to use one bat to get settled in, then change to another to tee off.
Bomber Bears
21 Mar 2010, 11:59
It's legal because the splice is a long way up the handle.
It'd take alot to get used, especially playing off the back foot with so much less bat there.
Ill Chicken
21 Mar 2010, 13:34
Using less bat and it should be banned? Ha.
King Elvis
21 Mar 2010, 13:59
Longer handle, smaller 'bat' - more leverage = more power, I don't really want to see batting in cricket become like baseball.
They have two bats, the one Haydos used I'm comfortable with, the other one, I'm not.
Damon_3388
21 Mar 2010, 17:09
So after double sided blades and longer handles (much like a broomstick putter only the blade is shorter), what's next in cricket bats? Return of the scoop with the long handle Mongoose?
I used to love using the old Gray Nicolls Scoop bat from the kit at high school. Just felt more powerful than other bats (on the occasions I'd actually connect bat with ball, that is :p)
BarneyBent
21 Mar 2010, 17:52
Bowlers have it hard enough in T20 as it is, I don't think a batsman should be able to use one bat to get settled in, then change to another to tee off.
Probably not. Changing mid-innings is probably a bit unfair. But having the choice of going in with one or the other and using it throughout should be fine.
Simon_Nesbit
22 Mar 2010, 13:58
Fair chance Matty Hayden hits the ball with more force than you do.
Fair chance Matty Hayden hits the middle of the bat more often too....:D
The Falcon Strike
22 Mar 2010, 14:49
Saw it last night - and just don't know how you could hit with the thing - the weight must feel funny in the hands.
I don't have an issue with it being used - as has been pointed out - it's less bat - therefore where's the issue?
What i do have an issue with - is the batsman changing equipment throughout an innings. Last night as an example - Hayden got a free-hit and called for the goose for the next delivery.
This is surely against the spirit of the game - the rules were set that you can't change the field - why should you be allowed to change your bat?
If you want to use the goose - use it from ball 1.
Notorious_29
22 Mar 2010, 17:07
Saw it last night - and just don't know how you could hit with the thing - the weight must feel funny in the hands.
I don't have an issue with it being used - as has been pointed out - it's less bat - therefore where's the issue?
What i do have an issue with - is the batsman changing equipment throughout an innings. Last night as an example - Hayden got a free-hit and called for the goose for the next delivery.
This is surely against the spirit of the game - the rules were set that you can't change the field - why should you be allowed to change your bat?
If you want to use the goose - use it from ball 1.
Agreed it was quite annoying seeing Hayden swapping bats ever over or 2. I don't think that is on at all.
It's the IPL you can do whatever you want whenever you want.
It's when it comes to first class cricket and international cricket it becomes a problem.
At this stage the bat is legal because in the laws of the game there is only a maximum that the bat must be and there is no minimum.
The problem is if you change mid innings. That's a real spirit of cricket issue i believe. You're using a normal bat then you're not. If you have to "warm up" and "get your eye in" with the normal bat then use it, don't change mid innings. That is just wrong.
Ill Chicken
23 Mar 2010, 20:50
So no changing helmets for hats, gloves, broken bats, spikes, whites, bandages/strappning, jumpers, pads for short covers/helmets/boxes and so on.
As long as it doesn't affect the time constraints of the game and it's not mid-over (unless there's a wicket or a delay) there shouldn't be an issue.
BarneyBent
23 Mar 2010, 23:21
So no changing helmets for hats, gloves, broken bats, spikes, whites, bandages/strappning, jumpers, pads for short covers/helmets/boxes and so on.
As long as it doesn't affect the time constraints of the game and it's not mid-over (unless there's a wicket or a delay) there shouldn't be an issue.
Hat/helmet is a safety issue. You clearly can't bat with a broken bat. Spikes are hardly a big change, and are only really changed when something's going wrong with them. Bandages and strapping are a comfort/injury issue. Pads, helmets, boxes etc in the field are safety issues as well.
Switching bat mid innings does nothing more than seek to give an advantage over the bowler. Now, is this against the spirit of the game? It's murky. I'm not totally against it, but the conservative parts of me are tugging at me to say it is. I'd rather just the one TYPE of bat throughout the innings. So if you want a Mongoose, you have to use it from the start (I have not problem with that whatsoever).
It's not as simple as calling it despicable, cheating, etc, but nor is it on the same level as changing between hat and helmet, etc, or replacing a broken bat. It's a grey area, and probably something we have to see a bit more of before we make a moral judgement.
I got my hopes up seeing Hayden getting geared up to use the Goose in the Super Over the other night, but he got out first delivery.
Tonight he was belting them with it, fours racing to the boundary. However, he was run out by about the length of a standard bat handle. Perhaps it was a bit longer, they only replayed it once, the commentator also made mention of it however.
Ill Chicken
24 Mar 2010, 03:17
Hat/helmet is a safety issue. You clearly can't bat with a broken bat. Spikes are hardly a big change, and are only really changed when something's going wrong with them. Bandages and strapping are a comfort/injury issue. Pads, helmets, boxes etc in the field are safety issues as well.
Switching bat mid innings does nothing more than seek to give an advantage over the bowler. Now, is this against the spirit of the game? It's murky. I'm not totally against it, but the conservative parts of me are tugging at me to say it is. I'd rather just the one TYPE of bat throughout the innings. So if you want a Mongoose, you have to use it from the start (I have not problem with that whatsoever).
It's not as simple as calling it despicable, cheating, etc, but nor is it on the same level as changing between hat and helmet, etc, or replacing a broken bat. It's a grey area, and probably something we have to see a bit more of before we make a moral judgement.
The thing is, a lot of this stuff was never an original part of the game. You can't say batting with a helmet against quicks doesn't give the batsman an edge. Fielders wearing pads is widely accepted but they don't have to go into those positions, it gives the fielding team an edge.
I got my hopes up seeing Hayden getting geared up to use the Goose in the Super Over the other night, but he got out first delivery.
Tonight he was belting them with it, fours racing to the boundary. However, he was run out by about the length of a standard bat handle. Perhaps it was a bit longer, they only replayed it once, the commentator also made mention of it however.
It is still a normal length in terms of the toe to handle, so he would have been run out regardless.
DeadlyAkkuret
24 Mar 2010, 05:13
The thing is, a lot of this stuff was never an original part of the game. You can't say batting with a helmet against quicks doesn't give the batsman an edge.
You mean because they can stop fearing for their life and actually concentrate on batting? That is a terrible comparison, I'm 50/50 on whether you're serious or not.
Fielders wearing pads is widely accepted but they don't have to go into those positions, it gives the fielding team an edge.
This is even more perplexing. Do cricket gloves give the batting team an edge? The answer is yes, but it's also necessary unless you want your knuckles shattered.
As far as I know the Mongoose isn't used as a safety device.
Ill Chicken
24 Mar 2010, 08:53
You mean because they can stop fearing for their life and actually concentrate on batting? That is a terrible comparison, I'm 50/50 on whether you're serious or not.
Yeah, David Boon was shitting bricks in the 90's against Devon Malcolm. Allan Border batted with a grill-less helmet.
This is even more perplexing. Do cricket gloves give the batting team an edge? The answer is yes, but it's also necessary unless you want your knuckles shattered.
As far as I know the Mongoose isn't used as a safety device.
Well you need to use a bat don't you, other wise you'll get hurt. The choice in size of bat is obviously limited. Complaining about going smaller seems a trivial waste of time.
The Falcon Strike
24 Mar 2010, 12:04
Well if we are allowed to chop and change one of the main pieces of equipment in cricket for the batsman - let's do it for the bowlers.
Let's allow the bowlers to use the old ball from end with the spinner or perhaps someone bowling reverse swing.
The new ball quicks get the new ball downwind - and if it isn't swinging - just go back to the old ball.
BarneyBent
24 Mar 2010, 12:26
The thing is, a lot of this stuff was never an original part of the game. You can't say batting with a helmet against quicks doesn't give the batsman an edge. Fielders wearing pads is widely accepted but they don't have to go into those positions, it gives the fielding team an edge.
But these are all safety issues. A helmet is a lot more cumbersome than a hat; they only wear it against pace because it's madness not to. Plenty ditch it against spin, and for a reason. The same with pads in the field; players don't wear helmets and shin guards at long on. This protective gear is just a way of ensuring fielding captains can make full use of the fieldsmen he has without putting them in unnecessary danger.
Switching bat mid-innings is a different issue. Again, I'm not totally against it, I'm undecided, but it's not about safety. The batsmen is CHANGING his equipment, not ADDING safety equipment. It is a different situation, one that has to be treated with a bit more concern than helmets and shin guards.
King Elvis
24 Mar 2010, 12:35
So no changing helmets for hats, gloves, broken bats, spikes, whites, bandages/strappning, jumpers, pads for short covers/helmets/boxes and so on.
As long as it doesn't affect the time constraints of the game and it's not mid-over (unless there's a wicket or a delay) there shouldn't be an issue.
In your examples, you're generally exchanging like for like.
A broken helmet being replaced doesn't change the way you bat.
A broken bat being replaced wont change how you bat.
Ill Chicken
24 Mar 2010, 16:20
In your examples, you're generally exchanging like for like.
A broken helmet being replaced doesn't change the way you bat.
A broken bat being replaced wont change how you bat.
I didn't say a broken helmet.
All bats are different.
BarneyBent
25 Mar 2010, 00:20
All bats are different.
Of course they are, but not dramatically so, and if it's broken, then a small difference is a small price to pay to allow the batsmen to continue actually batting. Seriously, that's a terrible argument.
Ill Chicken
25 Mar 2010, 14:16
How do you know what type of bats the players currently use? If they swap between lighter or heavier bats?
BarneyBent
25 Mar 2010, 21:44
How do you know what type of bats the players currently use? If they swap between lighter or heavier bats?
Switching between a lighter or heavier bat is hardly comparable to switching to or from the Mongoose. Besides which, players rarely if ever switch a bat mid-innings for any reason other than the bat they were using originally became damaged. The Mongoose is different.
Your other arguments were better, try those again.
King Elvis
26 Mar 2010, 00:47
How do you know what type of bats the players currently use? If they swap between lighter or heavier bats?
If they did, it'd be common knowledge; considering it's known that Hussey weighs every bat he receives and only uses them if they're almost exactly the weight he prefers.
How often, if ever, have you seen a player change his bat mid-innings when there is nothing wrong with the bat, or for a different style/type of bat?
Dos brought it out tonight (the full on Mongoose) after belting 20 from 10 and 4 4s in a row; but they brought Singh on, and against a spinner, it looks a lot more ungainly and ineffective.
Still, it'd look pretty good embedded in Singh's head; absolute wanker.
Ill Chicken
26 Mar 2010, 11:42
I see it as better the devil you know situation.
As can be seen, it's a bat for a certain type of situation, where a true pitch is really needed for it be successful.