Merged vent threads - Rd 2

[ningnangnong]

Mark Williams in 2 games has kicked no goals and on numerous occasions has showed such a poor endeavor towards the ball and towards contests.

He just doesn't seem to run hard enough and it looks as if he has a lazy approach to the game. What are everyone's thoughts?

It's probably a bit too early to say if recruiting him was a good call or not, but can you change these bad habits of his overnight or is he just a hot and cold footballer??

[OzBomber]

I am sick of this handballing shit in the defensive 50. One player is in trouble and he then handballs it to another player who is even in more trouble before we turn it over. I'd prefer us bomb it 50 metres to the wing and turn if over there instead of inside our forward 50. sure the handballing looks good when it pays off, but **** me, I'd prefer it if you'd just kick it!

PS: GUMBY! Great grab son.

[Lance Uppercut]

what's done is done. The die is cast. Yada yada yada.

The guy was ****ing shit today, but he didn't get great delivery (our turnovers were disgraceful!), and he was on a MUCH bigger opponent all day. At the ground it was so noticeable how much smaller he was than anyone on him. I think we missed Neagle big-time, & I think Knights needs to have a good look at himself for the match-up that meant that Williams was out-played all day.

Having said that, the guy is a MOBILE TARGET is he not? He was pathetic & I hope he ups his game

[KaaN10]

Should get 1 more game and if he still doesn't do anything he simply needs to go and play in the VFL. Although I doubt Knights will drop him.

If he cant motivate himself in front of 60K-75K next week then I don't know what can.

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Very very hot and cold.

If Knights can find a way to motivate him and use him correctly he can win you matches on his day. Like he did in the third quarter in the GF for us. He can really turn it on and do some brilliant things

On the other hand, those games where he's not motivated and switched on he can be ordinary and extremely frustrating.

I suppose the upside is when he gets the ball he uses it very well because he is a highly skilled footballer, so even on his quiet days he won't butcher the ball and hurt you that way.

It's just a question of whether Knights can get the best out of him really

[Mitchell Madness]

Hawks fans tried warning you lot

[Bring-Back-Powell]

Didn't he kick 60 goals in 2005 for the Hawks?

[ningnangnong]

He was beaten by Tarrant today no doubts about that.

Over the last few seasons had he been getting games with Hawks or was he injured? I just can't recall him being in there sides for a while

Dropping Neagle was strange. he needs a chance to get some continuity in his game. He deserves a game over Williams on todays performance alone.

[Charliebrow 16]

He presented all day. Sure, he dropped his head on a few occasions, but the service and delivery was absolutely appalling.

[Frothies Mcveigh]

Played like shit. Did a bit more in the midfield but still have a terrible game.

[canteencritic]

1st time i have seen him in the flesh.....he couldnt give a f***...part of the game is defense, he had none!! one of the more experienced boys should have shaken the sh1t out of him at one of the breaks. doesnt help when the forward is as stable as an iraqi parliament!

[ningnangnong]

He will kick 30 goals this season if we are lucky. He is a quick fix if that. He doesn't really give us much that Monfries or Zaka doesn't give us more except maybe some more polish in terms of disposal and can kick those freak goals.

Will take him some time to settle into the team structures no doubt though. I give him til Round 4 in Perth to show something.

He and Alwyn Davey fall into the has potential but shows it too rarely bracket. We expect from Davey, but he delivers infrequently.

[Mitchell Madness]

Didn't he kick 60 goals in 2005 for the Hawks?

2005-2006 lead the coleman and both seasons became injured in the later half.

He has always been a lazy midfielder/forward, and isnt great at sharing the spotlight

[neagle1451]

Drop him surely Darcy Daniher can be a better target up forward than this spud.

[kelvin_sheedy]

I was sick to my guts when I heard we drafted this pea hearted lazy footballer for pick 16.

Disgraceful decision when we could have added another kid and kept faith with Neagle and Daniher who at least have hearts.

[sen entertainment bloke]

Needs to play further out from goal.

[J6shSC]

We are two games into the AFL season, and in both games we have fallen over at the line from what appears to be lack of fitness throughout our team. We have fallen over at the end of each quarter so far this season, and our final quarters have been dismal.

It's all well and good to have an attacking game plan and have ideas for the future, but let's face it judging by our fitness levels early this year compared to the other 15 sides, we are going in the wrong direction.

Thoughts?

[Frothies Mcveigh]

We pushed forward hard, then didnt man up going the other way. Thats what killed us.

[Andrew_5]

Went to the game today..
In all fairness he did present, but delivery was crap.. infact the whole team had the fumbles today..
but his second efforts were non existent, lazy, lazy player..

[Rioli magic]

I was sick to my guts when I heard we drafted this pea hearted lazy footballer for pick 16.

It was actually pick 24 + Williams for 16, which isn't bad. He seems to have bursts of 'on' for half a quarter then can be lazy for 40 minutes. Delivery hasn't helped he's a mark on the lead player, no contested marking ability.

[HFF_07]

I posted this just after we traded for him

Why would we even bother going after a self centred selfish player who wants it all to himself, if we wanted one of these I sure as hell would of gone after Fevola than Mark Williams.

As for williams playing a hit up type role, stop looking outside the club and look at our own players, Darcy Daniher is 5 years younger, and given the scope for improvement that Daniher will give, I would like to see Daniher given a go seeing as though he played so well at VFL level last year and the half a dozen games that he played at senior level.

Angus Monfries playes the same role as Williams also, but maybe not as offensively effective as the latter.

So I am bemused at our lack of thinking in regards to us going after Mark Williams!

Does now show how pathetic this trading was? we could of had any of Luke Tapscott, Ryan Bastinac, Koby Stevens. Instead we traded a second - first round pick for this one paced, selfish 'star'...

Hm, would want to show something by the time Hurley's suspension is finished, otherwise I would play him in the seconds for the rest of his time at EFC.

[Charliebrow 16]

I think maybe we should actually hit him on the chest. I'm sure he'd appreciate that.

[TeamHurley]

He will get better. Cant get much worse.
He is a forward in a dysfunctional forward line being fed by a dysfunctional midfield. Give him a bit of time before lynching him.
Pretty poor form for the crowd to boo him.

[Lance Uppercut]

Does now show how pathetic this trading was? we could of had any of Luke Tapscott, Ryan Bastinac, Koby Stevens.

please don't :mad:

[TeamHurley]

I posted this just after we traded for him



Does now show how pathetic this trading was? we could of had any of Luke Tapscott, Ryan Bastinac, Koby Stevens. Instead we traded a second - first round pick for this one paced, selfish 'star'...

Hm, would want to show something by the time Hurley's suspension is finished, otherwise I would play him in the seconds for the rest of his time at EFC.


Dont forget we got carlile as well as williams. Carlile could turn out to be a better player than any of those you listed. But then again he might not.

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

Seriously give the guy a chance and give him a few more games before you lynch him. The delivery was shocking to him today.

I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out and kicks 6 against Carlton.

[Wanna B Hird]

I think maybe we should actually hit him on the chest. I'm sure he'd appreciate that.
Agree totally; Before we start hanging Williams out lets have a look at our pathetic midfield and its decisionmaking/delivery Stanton, Prismall, Welsh, Davey, Slattery(not a mid but still shit skills) etc, all are guilty and the coach needs to have a good look at these guys before our forward line. Also Neagle must play

[mark1881]

We pushed forward hard, then didnt man up going the other way. Thats what killed us.

One of the big problems with this is that if you don't score and the ball is turned over then you have to retreat. If we scored from more of these forward thrusts getting back would be less of an issue.

[Charliebrow 16]

If fitness is a problem, then we need to magically fix it because Carlton have a three day break on us.

[TeamHurley]

We pushed forward hard, then didnt man up going the other way. Thats what killed us.

This. Close thread.
Watching the replay now, watching freo carve straight through the middle of the ground with ease. No pressure at all. Players running forward but not backwards.

We arnt going to come close to winning until we fix this..

[blitzer]

I'm not surprised our players were tired when they worked hard, won the ball in the middle then promptly turned it straight over countless times when they went into the forward line, then they had to run back. Our poor disposal probably vastly increased the workrate needed. I'm not convinced its a fitness issue, some class and composure going into the forward line and some quality forwards would probably vastly help us.

[lemon chicken]

He's a small forward being played as a KPP. Get the structure right and he will have half a chance.

[teak]

Note: not an attack at OP

I am sick to death of Essendon "supporters" screaming "kick it, kick it".
My question is: "Who the **** to?"

If there is nobody to kick it to down the ground, they aren't going to kick it. This is more common due to the zonal defence used by most teams since 2008. You can't just kick it long any more, because it will just be an instant turnover because it will be a 1v2 or more contest.
I agree sometimes players overuse the ball, and procrastinate too much, but fair go. They can't always see what we see as spectators.

Totally agree with Gumby comment though.

[HFF_07]

Woke my girlfriend up a few times this arvo screaming "JUST KICK THE BLOOKDY THING" lol, she was gonna kill me, simply rolled over and went back to sleep.

Neagle had to of played, he would of given us so much more structure than that of Mark Williams, he is not a KP's shoelace.

Neagle/Hurley out of the square with Gumby leading from out of CHF, hm, tasty.

[Son of Whispy]

Note: not an attack at OP

I am sick to death of Essendon "supporters" screaming "kick it, kick it".
My question is: "Who the **** to?"

If there is nobody to kick it to down the ground, they aren't going to kick it. This is more common due to the zonal defence used by most teams since 2008. You can't just kick it long any more, because it will just be an instant turnover because it will be a 1v2 or more contest.
I agree sometimes players overuse the ball, and procrastinate too much, but fair go. They can't always see what we see as spectators.

Totally agree with Gumby comment though.

Couldn't agree with you more.:thumbsu:

[Skeeta Olly]

Welsh
McVeigh
Demspey

Who did they play on?

[HFF_07]

I was merely pointing out who we should have, instead of this dud.

But seriously, Darcy Daniher could be doing the same job that "Willo" has been doing.


Worse thing is: He is in my supercoach side, soooooo gonna trade him out this week :D

[Wahooti Fandango]

Woke my girlfriend up a few times this arvo screaming "JUST KICK THE BLOOKDY THING" lol, she was gonna kill me, simply rolled over and went back to sleep.

Neagle had to of played, he would of given us so much more structure than that of Mark Williams, he is not a KP's shoelace.

Neagle/Hurley out of the square with Gumby leading from out of CHF, hm, tasty.

I did the same thing at the game.

[Andrew_5]

Worse thing is: He is in my supercoach side, soooooo gonna trade him out this week :D

Haha.. Burn.. Twice..:D

[Son of Whispy]

Just a thought. Is it worth bringing Chook in to play 2nd ruck to Hille and leaving Ryder in the forward line all day. It seems it would be a better structure up there and let Willo be a secondary target up forward instead a main target.

[PooMonkey]

Was talking to a mate (Essendon member) when you picked him up.

I thought you were crazy, the guys knees are shot. He doesnt have the pace he once had, and that is what got him the ball in the first place.

Should be dropped, I just dont know who for?

[TheDon35]

Trotting around like a fat head.

Go and get your head around propper footy at Bendigo.

[The_Young_Gun]

Bad coaching in my opinion..

Firstly puts us on our back foot by excluding Neagle from the side, prompting us to kick it to guys like Williams, Monfries, Davey & Zaharakas deep in the forward line, when the primary defender on them was a good 2 or so inches taller.

First quarter was pretty good by our mids, worked hard but we didn't capitalize up forward on many occasions, just like throughout the whole game..

Soon we started getting really smashed in the ruck, so we prompted to leave Hille and Ryder out of the forward line to balance out the ruckwork..

We had a defencive zone for most the game mainly to Freo's pleasure.. We refused to kick through the middle for some reason.. Had very little support on the last line of defense.. When we finally got numbers behind the ball nearing after half time, we were much more efficient coming out of defense, and freo were less reluctant to cruise out of the stoppages..

Then for whatever reason, after 3 quarter time we took players away from behind the ball and started flooding and eventually man on man.. To no ones surprise Freo just cruised out the middle with the ball with no one behind the ball to stop them..

Shame on our coaching box.. Obviously our match fitness wasn't up to scratch, this is the second week in a row where we've been run over in the last quarter.. Gotta even out the work rate, take the St.Kilda approach, slow down the play and flood every once in a little while!!

[ningnangnong]

Trotting around like a fat head.

Go and get your head around propper footy at Bendigo.

It wasn't trotting. He was prancing about like an Easter Bunny.

[Frothies Mcveigh]

I was sitting on level 3 and most times we went inside 50 we didnt have any talls so Freo rebounded and all I could see was white. Freo players were open absolutely every where. Hille and Ryder didnt spend alot of time up forward so not having Neagle really hurt us.

[hawks realist]

looked disinterested last year and was the same today,to be honest i never really rated him when he was at the hawks.Too soft,front runner,big head and no heart,although he did go alright in the grand final.

He kicked a few goals mid 2000 because he was the only target the hawks had.

[kelvin_sheedy]

One thing to keep in mind is they were a man down from the second quarter.

They smashed us in the second half with one less man. If that doesn't ring alarm bells then nothing does.

[abers47]

I for one, have never played football, but I think that the decision making under pressure was one of our biggest problems today. They would handball or kick to a player who was immediately under the hammer. Kicks would be to a player in a contested position, when there was another who was relatively free. Comments?

[Noddy Holder]

Worse thing is: He is in my supercoach side, soooooo gonna trade him out this week :D

Mine too. Was going to trade him after last weekend but was hoping he might put in an effort against Freo. Definitely out next weekend. Hopefully that will mean he goes out and kicks a bag.

[absfab]

I think maybe we should actually hit him on the chest. I'm sure he'd appreciate that.

This.

Williams is not a "first forward". Or second. He's not going to lift the forward line up by it's shoe laces.

I know you guys drew some hope from Gumbleton today, but he really only did a couple of good CHF type thingys in his career best 10 possession game. He does indeed look a likely type, but a long way from having a big impact. Oppositions aren't going to be too terrified by what they saw today.

Add to that that you've got precisely nothing out of the full forward position in two weeks, and as noted by others the delivery was pretty shit, and it might be a bit harsh to point the finger at Williams just yet.

Or to put it another way, if the opposition is playing it's best defender on your forward pocket player, you're in a lot of shit.

[Godzke]

With Lovett we lost speed but not necessarily fitness... so I am intrigued as to how an underdone Geelong and man-down Freo managed to overrun us?

I'm thinking it's got to do with decision-making. Deciding when to run, when to hold back, when to jog, etc. To me it seems we have ample players who will piss-bolt down the ground to provide an attacking option but leave us open for a counter and then they're chasing shadows. Come 3qr time and they're ****ed.

Major issue.

[Noddy Holder]

This.

Williams is not a "first forward". Or second. He's not going to lift the forward line up by it's shoe laces.

I know you guys drew some hope from Gumbleton today, but he really only did a couple of good CHF type thingys in his career best 10 possession game. He does indeed look a likely type, but a long way from having a big impact. Oppositions aren't going to be too terrified by what they saw today.

Add to that that you've got precisely nothing out of the full forward position in two weeks, and as noted by others the delivery was pretty shit, and it might be a bit harsh to point the finger at Williams just yet.

Or to put it another way, if the opposition is playing it's best defender on your forward pocket player, you're in a lot of shit.

That's ok. We've got a bye next week anyway.

[Shane Hird]

I'd rather have young Silvagni from Freo in our FL than Williams.


****ing useless.

[absfab]

That's ok. We've got a bye next week anyway.

How very droll.

[Shane Hird]

I for one, have never played football, but I think that the decision making under pressure was one of our biggest problems today. They would handball or kick to a player who was immediately under the hammer. Kicks would be to a player in a contested position, when there was another who was relatively free. Comments?



Don't worry. Two thirds of all BF posters are in the same boat...

[The_Young_Gun]

Hurley = The Savior!!

[Frothies Mcveigh]

Well I have played football :p

Its fine to run and handball but we just took to long to make the decision, instead of kicking we would handball it one to many times and turn it over. Someone needed to stand up and take the game by the scruff of the neck and no one did and we got punished for it.

[slick1]

Would work much better with a dangerous full forward next to him. Has copped Scarlett and Tarrent in the last two weeks, who are two of the better fullbacks in the league and would usually take the number 1 forwards. Its hard with the poor delivery and kicking the ball onto his head expecting him to outbody his opponent, who is so much more bigger than him.

[edstar10]

Well I have played football :p

Its fine to run and handball but we just took to long to make the decision, instead of kicking we would handball it one to many times and turn it over. Someone needed to stand up and take the game by the scruff of the neck and no one did and we got punished for it.

kyle reimers would have been handy, winderlich should hav shown something, decision making becomes harder when knowone was talking, no support, no sheppards, would like neagle, reimers and lonergan in for slattery, williams and myers.

[superstar25]

If anyone saw the last few games box hill played of last year it is no surprise he is struggling my thinking is we probably would have delisted him after this year if he was still with us.
His body is shot wont let him play at afl level anymore i still love willo even though he is not with us anymore and love to see him doing well but i just dont think he is physically capable of it any more

[reincarnated]

I said it at that time and I'll say it again...I don't know what madness drove them to make that deal.

Bastinac for crying out loud...exactly what we wanted in our midfield.

And top of all that Daniher misses out on valuable game time with Neagle this week...further the scum have ended up with S.Burgoyne. That's like a loss on all front.

[yodellinhank]

This.

Williams is not a "first forward". Or second. He's not going to lift the forward line up by it's shoe laces.

I know you guys drew some hope from Gumbleton today, but he really only did a couple of good CHF type thingys in his career best 10 possession game. He does indeed look a likely type, but a long way from having a big impact. Oppositions aren't going to be too terrified by what they saw today.

Add to that that you've got precisely nothing out of the full forward position in two weeks, and as noted by others the delivery was pretty shit, and it might be a bit harsh to point the finger at Williams just yet.

Or to put it another way, if the opposition is playing it's best defender on your forward pocket player, you're in a lot of shit.

Big time.

What Willo does do is provide cover for Gus. I think he will continue to attract a good defender, releasing Monfries, until they start sending the defenders Gus' way and Willo will cash in.

People who were expecting a 15+ disposal player when we got him have been mislead somewhere. Willo is low possession, high output. People are Sh!tty about the laconic nature of his football. Who did they think we traded for?

Our side has lacked a clearly lacked a forward target for the first two rounds. (http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/news.asp?nid=7286)

This has become very evident.

[King Of The Hille]

I have always said that i wouldnt give ANYTHING more than a 2nd rounder for him.

Dont rate him in the slightest, not even at hawthorn.

[EVERLAST]

I realise that most AFL footballers lack any sort of basic intelligence outside of football, but I hope as we recruit int he future, they sit an exam to discover their level of IQ, as today was deplorable as far as decision making goes.

[ningnangnong]

-sigh- our recruiting has gone down the drain. Sheedy used to be a pioneer in regards to this and f'd in up big time with failures such as Courtney Johns. Lol, him. Perhaps this is another blight that we can put into the category.

[EVERLAST]

Had no idea how was playing today, thats how unsighted he was.

[yodellinhank]

I have always said that i wouldnt give ANYTHING more than a 2nd rounder for him.

Dont rate him in the slightest, not even at hawthorn.

Well, not sure we did give anything more than that? You are saying you would've coughed up a straight second round pick?

Effectively we...

Downgraded #16 to #24
Upgraded #42 to #32

and traded Jay Nash for Mark Williams.

Good deal for mine...

[bombre-boy]

Thankfully i am overseas and could not see this game, but judging by the comments i have read on most threads we were crap.
It seems that not only should the players decisions be critisiized but the selection panel and coaching staff should also cop some as well.
Do not know why Neagle and reimer were not in the side, but if they were not injured then this would seem to be a bad decision...Top that with some games last year where a loss was contributed to by bad selection, and the fact that we have no plan B, i think the selection panel/coachs should also be subjected to the same scrutiny.
IF we dont get our act together next week, we will likely looking at a 0-6 start...Great way to start a season...

[ningnangnong]

Lol unlikely he'd walk. We were foolish and extended his contract. Everything past our win over the Saints last year was pretty sub par excluding that Hawks win. Losses to WCE and Freo, bottom 5 sides to extend a poor interstate record. Then we got smashed and embarassed in Adelaide in the final. That was followed by a drubbing by WCE and then today...

[HyperAgressiveDonk]

You guys are seriously turning into Richmond more and more everyday. Give the guy a chance hey :)

He hasn't exactly got great stock to work with yet and I think he's done a decent job so far ( you did play finals last year )

There have been some MASSIVE over-reaction from some Essendon supporters. Sounding more and more like the Tigers supporters everyday the way you just turn on your own.

[cooper6]

You guys are seriously turning into Richmond more and more everyday. Give the guy a chance hey :)

He hasn't exactly got great stock to work with yet and I think he's done a decent job so far ( you did play finals last year )

There have been some MASSIVE over-reaction from some Essendon supporters. Sounding more and more like the Tigers supporters everyday the way you just turn on your own.

Agree completely, he has been great. The team did well last year and well last week (most of it). One bad game and he is being hanged. Completely ridiculous.

[Seb78]

Cannot play as a flanker. IMO he needs to be played one out in the square or not played at all.

[Storyboy]

It is waaaaaaaaaay too early to make a call on Williams. I think that he has not fit into the forward line well so far, but that does not mean it is a permanent arrangement.

The delivery was poor today. He is one of those effortless types who make it look easy when he having a great game and looks like he isn't trying when it isn't going well. I am reminded of the parallel in cricket of David Gower and Mark Waugh - both batsmen you would swear had more time than anyone else when facing up. Which is why it always looked bad when they got out.

We may yet decide that the Williams experiment was more Cupido than Wellman, but that judgement should be postponed until at least the second half of the season.

The best thing we could say about the Williams situation at the moment is that it should make Hurley salivate. If Hurley is as impatient to play as we are for him to play he will, hopefully, be maturing a year per week watching his team-mates (and Williams in particular) struggle without him.

[neagle1451]

James Hird the saviour

[Sman-21]

dont write him off just yet pretty hard for a small forward to do much when the ball is coming in how it is due to the midfielders.

I was worried about him coming into this game as he normally always has big games against us.

If he gets space to use his speed he will be very handy, but when the midfield mess around with the ball he has to make 3 or 4 leads an by then there is no space for him.

[rines]

Don't think it is just fitness I think the 'game plan' has something to do with it.

No one can keep up the full court press all game. If you watch St Kilda/Geelong etc they have periods where they drop back and slow it down. They also play zone structures that gives guys breaks and have a heap of midfield rotations. Basically 18 or their 22 players will, at some point, spend some time "on ball".

We don't have that many guys capable of the midfield rotation and we rarely play zone other than set plays (ie kick ins) so man on man for a lot of it really drains a player if they aren't getting a chop out.

Run and carry game style uses more energy cause the 5-10 guys going through the middle ALL have to run the length of the field. Freo today had quite a few effective long kicks into their forward line. This means they are only sprinting half the length of the field rather than all of it.

Effectiveness of the forward line. If a guy marks inside 50 then everyone gets a bit of breather and gets to reset. If the ball is being immediately cleared back down the length of the ground then no rest for the wicked.

So I think it is more a gameplan/coaching issue rather than just straight fitness. Although either way it is worrying.

[DannyJ]

Good player, big game player. Keep faith in him.

[rines]

Ok, from Knights press conference:
"I thought we played very pedestrian football today at times and just wanted to kick, kick, kick.''

Hmmm I didn't feel that it was a case of kick, kick,kick.. in fact I thought we could have done with a little more kicking. So I assumed that I must have been wrong, surely our coach would have the BEST view and access to the precise stats to know what we were doing.

So I did a little investigating and looked at what I considered were the top 3 running sides that have played so far this weekend for a win
:
St Kilda
443 Total Disposals
257 Kicks
186 Handballs
146 Marks

Brisbane
350 Total Disposals
206 Kicks
144 Handballs
101 Marks

Western Bulldogs
357 Total Disposals
184 Kicks
173 Handballs
82 Marks

Essendon
368 Total Disposals
196 Kicks
172 Handballs
89 Marks

So 2 of the 3 best running sides in the league had a "worse" or similiar Kick to Handball ratio to use and still registered easy wins. In Fact Essendon had the 2nd highest handball ratio out of the four.

I think this sums up how much our coach actually sees. I think he is the only man at the ground who was screaming "just handball the bloody thing!" :rolleyes:

ESSENDON coach Matthew Knights last night lamented his team's ''slow, pedantic football''

if that was slow I would hate to see measured or controlled... I can't remember a time when we held the ball up and settled. Or looked to spot up targets coming out of defence. It was handball, handball, handball hurried kick forward to no one.

Did anyone else see the game the way our coach did? I would be interested to hear why you agree.

[skzm]

Ok, from Knights press conference:
"I thought we played very pedestrian football today at times and just wanted to kick, kick, kick.''.

Maybe me meant we only wanted to kick instead of chasing and tackling, or actually getting the ball out of a pack?

[sen entertainment bloke]

They weren't switched on. The Geelong game they were at least for the first three quarters. If they had of played 4 quarters against Freo like those 3 against Geelong, we would have won.

The dropping of Reimers is the mystery. Dyson is the one who should have made way if Myers had to come in.

Selection is going to be interesting this week. Is NLM finished his suspension?

Anyway it's forward line turnovers, not holding the ball in there that we don't do.

[Murph_S13]

Many of those handballs were to blokes already under pressure. On the few occasions when a little run was created, there were wasn't enough movement among targets and, it has to be said, delivery often wasn't to a teammate's advantage. If disposals aren't hitting targets, you're in trouble right from the get go.

Where over the past couple of years, Knights' teams have used the corridor to run the ball through the lines, against Freo they seemed content to work the ball methodically round the boundary. Not much run to create, or run to support.

I wonder whether so much emotional energy was expended on putting up a good showing against the Cats in Round 1 (all summer to think about it!), there was nothing left in the tank to use against Freo. In modern football, a few per cent drop in intensity, especially against an opponent that is already up in their intensity, turns into a seven goal loss.

How much attention did the Lloyd celebration take away from match preparation too? It was unexpected to see Lloyd address the playing group on the ground before the game.

[Andrew_5]

What I'm disapointed about is the comment I read in another thread..
Saying that he will not change the game plan because it's worked for 2.5 Quarters.. (Can anybody verify this) and if it is the case that is pathetic..

Anyway, on yesterday's game, we didn't play our normal game style, constantly going out on the wings instead of playing through the middle, so stats might be a bit misleading because it would of taken almost twice as many possessions to get to the foward line..
We constantly fumbled, didn't man up, and it was like, handball, handball, handball, quick blind kick to no-one.. and when we did look settled and tried kicking into the forward line, they were errant and wayward
I'm not sure if it was the team, or the coach.. but Knights took too long to react, and make moves, and when the coaching staff did, it was too late..

So I'm going to put this down as one of those off days that a side could have, because the round one team (looked like we could take it up to any side in the AFL) compared to the round two side (looked like we would struggle to beat Richmond) were chalk and cheese..

[TheDon35]

Ok, from Knights press conference:
"I thought we played very pedestrian football today at times and just wanted to kick, kick, kick.''

Hmmm I didn't feel that it was a case of kick, kick,kick.. in fact I thought we could have done with a little more kicking. So I assumed that I must have been wrong, surely our coach would have the BEST view and access to the precise stats to know what we were doing.

So I did a little investigating and looked at what I considered were the top 3 running sides that have played so far this weekend for a win
:
St Kilda
443 Total Disposals
257 Kicks
186 Handballs
146 Marks

Brisbane
350 Total Disposals
206 Kicks
144 Handballs
101 Marks

Western Bulldogs
357 Total Disposals
184 Kicks
173 Handballs
82 Marks

Essendon
368 Total Disposals
196 Kicks
172 Handballs
89 Marks

So 2 of the 3 best running sides in the league had a "worse" or similiar Kick to Handball ratio to use and still registered easy wins. In Fact Essendon had the 2nd highest handball ratio out of the four.

I think this sums up how much our coach actually sees. I think he is the only man at the ground who was screaming "just handball the bloody thing!" :rolleyes:

ESSENDON coach Matthew Knights last night lamented his team's ''slow, pedantic football''

if that was slow I would hate to see measured or controlled... I can't remember a time when we held the ball up and settled. Or looked to spot up targets coming out of defence. It was handball, handball, handball hurried kick forward to no one.

Did anyone else see the game the way our coach did? I would be interested to hear why you agree.

I think you've summed that up pretty well.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Game plan has been worked out by smart coaches... Mark Harvey is a smart coach.

Unless we play kamikaze and somehow get a 5 goal roll on then we are made to look slow and unskilled becuase our setup and options do us no favour. You can't have Monfires, Davey and Williams as marking targets forward.

Kamikaze only works for so long and it's why teams have got massive run ons against us.

You can't flog a pony to make it run in the Melbourne Cup and Knights is trying to flog a side into playing a game style that is getting cut up by all and sundry.

[HighettBomber]

The reason we were pedestrian was because we had Slattery, Hocking and Myers in the Backline and Watson and Welsh playing onball. Knights has implemented a game style that requires pace and skill and then loads up with plodders with poor skill. I'm not saying we should drop them all, certainly not Watson, but we also can't play this many slow players and we definately can't have 3 of our 4 small defenders being slow and unskillful, the modern running game starts from the back half.

[absfab]

They weren't switched on. The Geelong game they were at least for the first three quarters. If they had of played 4 quarters against Freo like those 3 against Geelong, we would have won.


That's the problem. It can't be done.

Last year Essendon looked fantastic in those matches where they got the jump on the opposition and made them chase for extended periods. They burn out their tank chasing. Knights get that smug "look at me I'm a genius" look on his face and next week asks his players to go flat out for 4 quarters again.

The only way that can work on a regular basis is if you are heaps more skillful, heaps fitter, r heaps faster, or heaps more "up" than the opposition. Every single week.

[SirJimi05]

The guy was ****ing shit today, but he didn't get great delivery (our turnovers were disgraceful!), and he was on a MUCH bigger opponent all day. At the ground it was so noticeable how much smaller he was than anyone on him. I think we missed Neagle big-time, & I think Knights needs to have a good look at himself for the match-up that meant that Williams was out-played all day.


He has been playing on much bigger and taller opponents just about every week for the last 5 years. You are really grasping at straws when you play that card.

[j2kboiz]

After being at the game yesterday one player kept coming to mind. Now I'm not a stanton basher or anything like that I actually think he is alright. But he made some terrible decisions and his kicking and handballing sills were atrocious. This is a guy not new to the game and still turns the ball over way to much. I could have killed ihm yesterday with all his turnovers. He wasn't alone though.

Another issue is this panic style and frenzy the players get into. They handball to a guy that is surrounded by 3 freo players thinking he can do something with it? I mean come on. How hard is it to realise giving it to a guy surronded by freo players is going to get crunched and result in a turnover.

[OutsideEdge]

After being at the game yesterday one player kept coming to mind. Now I'm not a stanton basher or anything like that I actually think he is alright. But he made some terrible decisions and his kicking and handballing sills were atrocious. This is a guy not new to the game and still turns the ball over way to much. I could have killed ihm yesterday with all his turnovers. He wasn't alone though.

Another issue is this panic style and frenzy the players get into. They handball to a guy that is surrounded by 3 freo players thinking he can do something with it? I mean come on. How hard is it to realise giving it to a guy surronded by freo players is going to get crunched and result in a turnover.


I've known this for a while but yesterday confirmed it. When we have the ball, Slattery, Hocking & Myers should all run the other way, we don't want them to get the ball, they just turn it over way too much.

On Stanton, he is in our best 22 every week, no doubt, but I can see what people are saying about his disposal. When you get it 30 times though, chances are you will have more turnovers than others. What gets me about this bloke though is why towards the end of games the socks go down and he starts running like a broken-down racehorse....until we get the ball that is!!

[Donakebab]

I've known this for a while but yesterday confirmed it. When we have the ball, Slattery, Hocking & Myers should all run the other way, we don't want them to get the ball, they just turn it over way too much.

On Stanton, he is in our best 22 every week, no doubt, but I can see what people are saying about his disposal. When you get it 30 times though, chances are you will have more turnovers than others. What gets me about this bloke though is why towards the end of games the socks go down and he starts running like a broken-down racehorse....until we get the ball that is!!


Errrrr..... wut? :confused:

[stillGOTmyBEANIE]

- Didnt have any talls playing deep forward

- Didnt run hard going the other way

- Instead of kicking it to a leading player in space we hesitated and either handballed it one time too many or kicked it to an out of position player.

This.

Our delivery into the forwards were not great to say the least but even on some kick ins we were so unsure of what to do with the footy. I can understand that there are going to be times when we dont run as hard as we should when we dont have the ball, but we looked like we lacked confidence in our disposal.

Who are our best kicks on our list that is not getting a game?

[Ben the Gooner]

I've just deleted 31 posts from this thread alone.

Next I'm going to start dishing out cards.

[Boucks09]

I've just deleted 31 posts from this thread alone.

Next I'm going to start dishing out cards.

Haha some ****** ridiculous comments that's for sure. People you should think about the 12 hour posting rule. There is no point posting in the heat of a loss because you just look back on some of your posts and end up embarrassed.

Everyone is pissed off with our effort yesterday and with good reason. But there is no point carrying on with wholesale changes after one game. If we win next week I'm sure everyone will have 'I love the EFC' Facebook status updates.

I normally don't post until I've watched the replay and will do that tonight but there are a few things which really upset me yesterday.

1). Alwyn Davey's inability to take a hit when taking possession of the ball. It is a major issue.

2). Paddy Ryder. 2 disposals after 1/4 is deplorable. People need to start criticising him because he has been terrible for 2 weeks now.

3). Our disposals forward of the centre.

4). The inflexibility to change the kick out structure. We should've gone man on man much earlier when it was obvious that Freo had us figured out.

Gotta say though that I've never been so excited for a player than when Gumby took a great contested mark and goaled form 50m in front of me. That piece of play showed why he went at #2 and why we will persist with him. He did absolutely everything we could possibly have asked of him yesterday and I just hope he gets through the season. The kid can play (in the Hurley mould).

[Knight Ryders]

Very hard to win matches when we so completely out played from the clearances. Put Sandilands in our team yesterday and we would have won, simple as that.

Changes do need to happen though. The experiment with Welsh as a midfielder needs to be shelved. We need more raw youth and pace around the midfield. I think Welsh could be a valuable addition to the half forward line - he will provide plenty of leads, surprising good overhead for his height, good kick and will apply some genuine defensive pressure in the forward half.

Winderlich is a little bit out of form, so I'd like to see him put back to HB to get some form and give Dempsey the responsibility of playing in the guts. He is ready. I'd also like Knights to give Myers some responsibility and plonk him in the guts from the bounce next week - may be a job on Gibbs.

Williams has been average, but I think it has been more on a consequence of our midfield and current structure. We are not currently playing to our or his strengths - have you even seen us hit anyone on the lead from the centre in the last two matches?

[Donakebab]

Very hard to win matches when we so completely out played from the clearances. Put Sandilands in our team yesterday and we would have won, simple as that.

Changes do need to happen though. The experiment with Welsh as a midfielder needs to be shelved. We need more raw youth and pace around the midfield. I think Welsh could be a valuable addition to the half forward line - he will provide plenty of leads, surprising good overhead for his height, good kick and will apply some genuine defensive pressure in the forward half.

Winderlich is a little bit out of form, so I'd like to see him put back to HB to get some form and give Dempsey the responsibility of playing in the guts. He is ready. I'd also like Knights to give Myers some responsibility and plonk him in the guts from the bounce next week - may be a job on Gibbs.

Williams has been average, but I think it has been more on a consequence of our midfield and current structure. We are not currently playing to our or his strengths - have you even seen us hit anyone on the lead from the centre in the last two matches?

Didn't see Windy use his key weapon, his speed, once yesterday. Barely used it against Geelong either. Is he being asked to play a different role, is his confidence down or is his back flaring up again and the club isn't telling us or that Jason isn't even telling the club? It's only round 2 so not going to be up in arms over it, but if this persists over the next few weeks then it will continue to take a valuable asset out of our game, we will suffer for it and questions will need to be raised. Either way it was sorely missed both weeks and I'm sure we all hope for its return on Saturday.

[nipst@r]

Couple of things i noticed.

First up yesterday was a bad day, it happens from time to time. don't get too carried away.

However there are a few worrying signs.

Players running away from the ball, for the kick over the top exspecially the forwards. All game essendon players refused to lead towards the ball carrier and this was one of the reasons for the poor disposal. Get in front of your man, lead hard. we have to many players who want the easy kick over the top and in most instances the ball would drop short and the freo player would pick it off. Gonna happen when your 50 metres away. How bout short hard leads towards the player with the ball.

Our zone was terrible, must be scraped how many times from a behind did they go coast to coast.

Slattery must go. He gives he's all but honestly lots of players out there not just in the afl even who can play back pocket and get 3 goals kicked on them by no names every week. What positive does he give us at all. Any half decent vfl player could stand in a back pocket and get goals kicked on them every week. Can understand if hes out of position trying to attack etc but basically the problem is that unfortunately he is just not good enough as look he's committed to standing next to a bloke all day but that doesn't matter if your constantly beaten 1 on 1, ran past and made to look 2nd class all day.

Davey must go. Fumbles under any pressure. Has not played a good game for a long time. Understand forward pressure argument but think he is bit overated now in that regard. Do we want a player constantly chasing arse or a fwd pocket who gets to the fall of the ball doesn't fumble and actually does something and looks dangerous.

Williams had a shocker. More effort and form needed urgently but least he can play. Get him to pull his head in and lead hard and fast and show he wants to play for essendon.

[kelvin_sheedy]

In the half time break between Hawthorn and Geelong Huddo asked Lloyd the question about game plan. Lloyd replied with he doesn't think the game plan can win a flag and it needs to change.

Pretty damning stuff right there.

Might be more on tonights one week at a time program.

[Kong]

Pretty obvious stuff, I would've thought.

Everybody (including Knight himself) has said from the outset that we wouldn't win a premiership playing attacking-only football. It still needs a massive amount of tweaking, as we cannot stop the bleeding, so to speak.

Yet another nothing thread.

[kelvin_sheedy]

When does the tweaking start Whomb? It's year 3 into it and it's the same old problem from year 1.

The same excuse as always and it's great to see guys like Lloyd telling it how it is now that he's out of the inner sanctum and not toeing the company line.

He was the captain last year and 6 months later is saying that we can't win a flag playing Matthew Knights gameplan. As daming as you can get I would have thought.

Blow torch has been well and truly lit now. The media will be baying for blood over the next month.

[DapperDon]

Breaking News: Lloyd says bad skills wont win a premiership.

More at 6pm.