View Full Version : To Neagle or not to Neagle...
ghostdog
12 Apr 2010, 12:40
I missed the Carlton game so I don't know exactly how well the forward structure worked. If I'm to believe the hype here the forwardline set-up is only going to gain strength.
This made me wonder about the future of Jay Neagle. Is there a place for him? We've got Hurley coming back, and Ryder and Hille rotate through already.
Power forwards are not easy to come by, and can take time to develop. Do we persevere with Neagle, or is he destined to become trade bait?
...and if we were to trade, what would we require?
The Donners
12 Apr 2010, 12:44
I missed the Carlton game so I don't know exactly how well the forward structure worked. If I'm to believe the hype here the forwardline set-up is only going to gain strength.
This made me wonder about the future of Jay Neagle. Is there a place for him? We've got Hurley coming back, and Ryder and Hille rotate through already.
Power forwards are not easy to come by, and can take time to develop. Do we persevere with Neagle, or is he destined to become trade bait?
...and if we were to trade, what would we require?
Hille/Ryder have done nothing for me in the forward line, however, with Monfries and Hurley to be lock-ins for the forward line, unlikely Neagle will make the 22.
Williams, Gumbleton, Hurley, Monfries, Davey, Zaharakis, Reimers - there's 7 that are ahead of Neagle.
kelvin_sheedy
12 Apr 2010, 12:47
2010 looking bleak for the kid.
Hurley is playing forward, Gumbleton is there with Williams. Factor in a resting ruckman and there is no room.
He needs to get fitness and form and wait till someone gets injured or their form drops right off. Can't see him playing until late in the season.
Alarm bells should be ringing for him and he needs to transform his body into a powerful AFL ready machine. He's got the muscle mass to be a very powerful footballer.
bombersno1
12 Apr 2010, 12:50
No point playing lazy, slow players like Neagle. Forwardline finally had some spark without Neagle clogging up 30 metres of the area doing squat all.
bacon buster
12 Apr 2010, 12:54
doesn't deserve a spot until he improves his fitness/desire, and has a few standout games in the ressies.
It's looking more and more likely that he'll get delisted or traded very soon. He doesn't give us much when playing.
ghostdog
12 Apr 2010, 13:01
doesn't deserve a spot until he improves his fitness/desire, and has a few standout games in the ressies.
I just wonder what the liklihood of such an improvement this year is though. If he doesn't improve and the forwardline settles into some good consistent footy, a trade will look increasingly likely.
The other issue I'm thinking of is whether or not Williams is going to be consistent, but even if he isn't, swapping a small for a tall simply to fill a spot doesn't make much sense.
stander
12 Apr 2010, 13:08
It's looking more and more likely that he'll get delisted or traded very soon. He doesn't give us much when playing.
If he's contracted for another year (2011 rings a bell) , Dudoro and the list crew will certainly be put the test. Perservere with a one position player with a small windbag, or manufacture a deal and cut losses. I suspect they'll off load him.
bacon buster
12 Apr 2010, 13:21
i don't think we'll offload him. and i don't think any other club would be interested either.
if he's contracted until the end of 2011, i think he's got enough time to prove himself, that's for sure.
The Donners
12 Apr 2010, 13:25
I can't see list management cutting him. If anything I thought he'd be retained for depth. Besides, does he really have any trade value?
To my knowledge he hasn't kicked a bag for Bendigo, at least consistently, let alone Essendon.
I think he's too valuable to lose, but having said that, Hurley and Gumbleton are even more so.
I could see both he and Lonergan playing at Sydney, for some reason.
I think he's too valuable to lose, but having said that, Hurley and Gumbleton are even more so.
I could see both he and Lonergan playing at Sydney, for some reason.
And playing well, the way players that go to Sydney usually do. I can see that to with a couple of our fringe players who can't get consistent games.
Slattery_20
12 Apr 2010, 14:05
Not. If someone offered us a 2nd or 3rd rounder for him tomorrow, we'd take it IMHO.
Next question?
rhysman
12 Apr 2010, 14:45
With Hurley coming back to play forward his chances of getting back in the team are slim. We just cant play all those big guys - Hille, Ryder, Gumby, Hurley and Neagle in the one forward line. Neagle has talent but I dont know if he has ever had the work rate to realise his potential. He is a big kid and he needs a lot of work to get fit enough to play the role they want from him. It wont hurt him to have a good stint in the twos, train hard and improve from there. Is a fair way behing Hurley though (who isn't)?.
Valve Bounce
12 Apr 2010, 15:37
Gumby needs to gain a little more confidence and kick straight - he has the size and ability that we need, and we've been waiting for him like for an eternity. Hurley will slide into the side next week, no probs.
What Neagle needs to do is to light up the ground at Bendigo and kick a stack of goals, and iron out a few opposing backs during the process. He really needs to impress if he wants in.
I really don't see him fitting into our forward line, i reckon he'll be traded and he'll live up to his potential.
Giggidy Giggidy
12 Apr 2010, 16:01
This is the beauty of having any sort of depth, it makes players pull their fingers out and not receive games undeservingly. May need to start looking over his shoulder at the likes of Laycock, Daniher, Still & Carlisle too, any/all could slip past him in the KPF pecking order if he doesn't start to dominate VFL and show more mobility and endurance.
CHF: Monfries/Zaka-Gumby/Ryder-Reimers/Colyer
FF: Williams/Hille-Hurley/Neagle-Davey/Lonergan
First and second choice forward line. Neagle has work to do but just because he's not clearly in our best 22 doesn't mean we should trade him. He has a future at this club and I reckon it still looks more promising than Williams but we shall wait n see.
TheDon35
12 Apr 2010, 16:50
No point playing lazy, slow players like Neagle. Forwardline finally had some spark without Neagle clogging up 30 metres of the area doing squat all.
Yea, the forward looked really damaging against Freo....:rolleyes:
The 10 goal forward line against Carlton (who are rabble), I hardly thought had a heap of spark. In fact it could have done with a big bloke coming out of the forward line and presnting through the middle (Barry Hall style).
Anyway, Hurley comes in this week so he won't play.
The Great Barry Besanko
12 Apr 2010, 17:28
I can't see list management cutting him. If anything I thought he'd be retained for depth. Besides, does he really have any trade value?
To my knowledge he hasn't kicked a bag for Bendigo, at least consistently, let alone Essendon.
That's what gets me. How the hell a guy that has never really had a big game for Bendigo can get a game. Yeah Bendigo is not the best team to supply a FF but he should still do way way better. Like Hurley for instance.
bombersno1
12 Apr 2010, 17:55
Yea, the forward looked really damaging against Freo....:rolleyes:
The 10 goal forward line against Carlton (who are rabble), I hardly thought had a heap of spark. In fact it could have done with a big bloke coming out of the forward line and presnting through the middle (Barry Hall style).
Anyway, Hurley comes in this week so he won't play.
Freo have just beaten Geelong, they are almost a top 4 side- in other words ahead of us in terms of development. Neagle is not Barry Hall, Hall at 34 has more fitness for starters which is the biggest worry. Neagle is unfit, and that is the bottom line. Yes our forwardline could do with a big bloke like Hall..quick tip..they don't grow on trees!
Frothies Mcveigh
12 Apr 2010, 18:16
So they are almost a top 4 side after 3 rounds :rolleyes:
With Hurley coming back in I cant see him getting a game unless someone gets injured or suspended. Shouldnt trade him, he's good for depth.
BOMBERS 4 LIFE!!!!
12 Apr 2010, 18:35
keep him or trade him? il keep him for depth.the bombers should look at the wafl lor vfl for a mature age foward at the end of the year
RedFeather
12 Apr 2010, 18:44
The Gold Coast might look at him if we opt to trade him? They are part of trade week this year.
bombersno1
12 Apr 2010, 18:48
So they are almost a top 4 side after 3 rounds :rolleyes:
With Hurley coming back in I cant see him getting a game unless someone gets injured or suspended. Shouldnt trade him, he's good for depth.
They keep playing the way they have with a decent draw, they should make top 6, borderline top 4.
bombersno1
12 Apr 2010, 18:50
As for trading him, we have to be careful as he probably is our only goalsquare FF we have on our list. That said he has been dead ordinary. This said he is young in terms of a KPP. I would consider trading him, but really what would we get..pick 50 in a shallow draft with GC raping the whole draft. If we can get one of GC's 2nd round picks then I'd do it though.
bombermick
12 Apr 2010, 18:55
He showed some decent signs last year. We were certainly a better side with Neagle rather than Lucas, although that is perhaps not saying much. Kicked 20 odd goals last year and if he could kick 30 he would be pretty serviceable.
Did one or two nice things against Geelong, but unfortunately his brain fade was VERY costly. Worthwhile persisting with for at least another season. If he's still no better at the end of 2011 then perhaps cut our losses. Big full-forwards who are good kicks for goal don't grow on trees. Our forward line atm consists of an undersized full-forward, a second year utility and an injury prone CHF. Far too early to be putting a line through Jay's name.
In just a little bit of trouble.
Ryder's efforts leading up from CHF on Saturday took a lot of pressure off Gumbleton to do the same.
Big Blow Hard
12 Apr 2010, 19:10
Needs to work hard now.
Someone said Carlisle was pretty impressive for Bendigo. If Neagle doesnt lift soon, he will have more players ahead of him. It's a shame, cos I think he could be a decent forward still.
citizen-erased
13 Apr 2010, 03:15
i dont think we should drop him. He's a big boy with a decent kick. his hands have been shaky this year but its nothing match fitness wont help.
considering he is a young KPP, i would give him time to develop. Id also be concerned about trying to get 22 consecutive games into Gumby and Hurley playing week in week out at their ages. Rotating the 3 through the forward line will give us a better development in this area.
Hille and Ryder are giving us too much around the ground to be anchored as forwards (though both have very nice kicks on them).
daveys kicking for goal worries me.
i like:
Zaha Hurley Williams.
Reimers Gumby Monfries
with Neagle on the bench to rotate.
FandangoDingo
13 Apr 2010, 03:30
He showed some decent signs last year. We were certainly a better side with Neagle rather than Lucas, although that is perhaps not saying much. Kicked 20 odd goals last year and if he could kick 30 he would be pretty serviceable.
Did one or two nice things against Geelong, but unfortunately his brain fade was VERY costly. Worthwhile persisting with for at least another season. If he's still no better at the end of 2011 then perhaps cut our losses. Big full-forwards who are good kicks for goal don't grow on trees. Our forward line atm consists of an undersized full-forward, a second year utility and an injury prone CHF. Far too early to be putting a line through Jay's name.
Needs to work hard now.
Someone said Carlisle was pretty impressive for Bendigo. If Neagle doesnt lift soon, he will have more players ahead of him. It's a shame, cos I think he could be a decent forward still.
These. :thumbsu:
Barring injuries to other players, he really needs to rip it up for Bendigo before he gets another crack at the big time. Should probably be told he's gonna stay there until he does so. Until then, he's just depth. Needs to know he's at the crossroads - I just don't get the feeling he knows this yet. A few words about life and opportunity from Merv and/or Hirdy wouldn't go astray.
ghostdog
13 Apr 2010, 11:29
A few words about life and opportunity from Merv and/or Hirdy wouldn't go astray.
This is wisdom.
Grey Smith Bar
13 Apr 2010, 12:34
Jobe was at a similar crossroads, perhaps a word from his skipper might help ;)
Jobe was being played out of position, and had no issue with his effort. With Neagle it seems to be all between the ears.
FandangoDingo
13 Apr 2010, 13:18
(Response to Grey Smith Bar)
Yeah, good call, however Jobe's regular proximity to him might reduce the impact of the message. I think it needs to come from a revered "outsider" (or dad). Maybe even Tim Watson, who had the talk with Jobe. Someone needs to shake the boy out of his slumber before his AFL career silently slips away, without him making a ripple.
I think mental application is the only bit that's missing. He has the skills and the frame, but needs to work really hard on his fitness and his mental application, on the track and on game day.
C'mon Jay! Extract your bloody digit!
FandangoDingo
13 Apr 2010, 13:28
Jobe was being played out of position, and had no issue with his effort. With Neagle it seems to be all between the ears.
I don't think that's 100% correct. He certainly was carrying much more weight back then. I remember reading/seeing/hearing an interview with Jobe in the past 12 months about the guidance he received from his dad while "at the crossroads". He's certainly improved his preparation and mental application.
The Donners
13 Apr 2010, 13:55
I don't think that's 100% correct. He certainly was carrying much more weight back then. I remember reading/seeing/hearing an interview with Jobe in the past 12 months about the guidance he received from his dad while "at the crossroads". He's certainly improved his preparation and mental application.
True, it's called maturing. Neagle doesn't seem to be the type...
Ok, so this talk of trading him...
Not just yet, give the kid some time. He is still only 22 years old. Obviously we would like him to be doing some better work than he is..
Give him till the end of next year (he'll be 24). then we'll decide.
I don't want him gone, at all.
I really rate this kid, like many on here. No point talking about a trade at this point, as HFF said.
Duckworth
13 Apr 2010, 17:31
Ok, so this talk of trading him...
Not just yet, give the kid some time. He is still only 22 years old. Obviously we would like him to be doing some better work than he is..
Give him till the end of next year (he'll be 24). then we'll decide.
at 24 we will be either keeping him or delisting him.
at 24 we will be either keeping him or delisting him.
Well thats the plan :D
eth-dog
13 Apr 2010, 17:44
This might be controversial, but why not try him in defence? He's strong, could gain some fitness playing on gun KPF, and he could essentially replace Hurley back there. Scott Lucas went back there and improved considerably, give it a try. Also, he's got a good, long kick, so could be a good option for kick-outs when Fletch retires. just my 2c worth
This might be controversial, but why not try him in defence? He's strong, could gain some fitness playing on gun KPF, and he could essentially replace Hurley back there. Scott Lucas went back there and improved considerably, give it a try. Also, he's got a good, long kick, so could be a good option for kick-outs when Fletch retires. just my 2c worth
Nuh, dont think it is worth a shot.
Got a couple of handy kids in the seniors who play alright there now :p
Duckworth
13 Apr 2010, 17:50
This might be controversial, but why not try him in defence? He's strong, could gain some fitness playing on gun KPF, and he could essentially replace Hurley back there. Scott Lucas went back there and improved considerably, give it a try. Also, he's got a good, long kick, so could be a good option for kick-outs when Fletch retires. just my 2c worth
I like how settled the defense is, it's one of our strengths. I don't think Neagle would add anything to it.
eth-dog
13 Apr 2010, 18:00
Nuh, dont think it is worth a shot.
Got a couple of handy kids in the seniors who play alright there now :p
not even in the magoos? :p
not even in the magoos? :p
oh, sorry..
Got a couple of handy 'guys' in the seniors who play alright there now :D
Skipper Flaherety and Shinners.