View Full Version : What does Essendon need to take the next step?
A little bored, so i thought I would start a new thread.
Was thinking today, what do Essendon need to take that next step in their quest for # 17?
bombermick
13 Apr 2010, 18:24
Need Melksham and Colyer to become seriously good players, with Melksham to become a Pendlebury/Hayes type. We need Neagle to fulfil his potential and for Gumby to prove he was worth a no.2 pick. It would also nice to be in contention while Fletch is still around. Need a seriously good tagger. Welsh is good but he's not in the Jones/Cornes bracket.
I think we have a good defense without him, but it would help us greatly if he was still 'Old Man River', as Tim Lane likes to call him. We also need greater ruck depth, as it falls away quite badly after Ryder/Hille.
nickh32
13 Apr 2010, 18:33
There are only two things essendon need imo
1. Is the obvious one and that is a quick gun onballer who kicks aswell as handballs. Im not bagging watson he isa gun in close but kicking isnt the greatest and dosnt have the greatest speed so a gun on baller for me.
2. The second thing is a gun half back. Yes Dempsy is good and he could reach this if he gets his pre-season together. If we could get a a hargrave or heath shaw or a hurn somebody who has great disposal and sets up the plays is another thing we need.
ghostdog
13 Apr 2010, 18:36
Pace and skill in the midfield.
Prismall was supposed to help in this regard, but his current form has him out of favour. Hopefully he rediscovers that.
Stanton is our only mid who goes all day and even his foot skills are questionable at times.
Winders is trying to find form.
Zaharakis I thought would have been an outside mid in the Lovett mold, but his role in the forward pocket is starting to look guaranteed with Davey falling out of favour.
Melksham, Colyer and Howlett I'm sure we're all hoping will develop quickly in time for the window.
Kelvin_Sheedy mentioned NLM's reinvention as a midfielder. I didn't see the match unfortunately.
Watson digs the ball out consistently and finds space and time:thumbsu:
Lonergan digs the ball out and is a little bit quick off the mark:thumbsu:
Hocking digs the ball out but moves a bit slowly.
...one of the young blokes needs to develop into a gun.
Backline is reasonably settled, though there is the looming issue of a retiring Fletcher.
A mental challenge. To break any thought, especially in the minds of some of the more experienced players, that this is just a job - the same old same old. To know and believe that a premiership is a definite possibility. To make every player believe in their heart that this is something they can accomplish as a unit. To make them believe that every other member of the unit is playing for them and that they must do likewise to ensure success. To make them believe that everything that happens at training, off the field, during the game is to ensure the progress of the group, and to make them believe in the value of sacrifice for the progress and success of the group.
Skeeta Olly
13 Apr 2010, 19:01
A star.
Most teams have a star, we don't. St Kilda - Riewoldt, Geelong - Ablett, Collingwood - Swan (debatable), Fremantle - Pavlich, Birsbane - Brown, Carlton - Judd, Hawthorn - Hodge/Franklin, Sydney - Goodes.
eth-dog
13 Apr 2010, 19:10
In my opinion we have the basis of a good future line-up, with a couple of outstanding KPP's at either end. Tayte Pears has become stronger over the pre-season, and is maintaining his closing speed, and IMO is looking like one of the best FB's in the competition over the next few years. His ability to read the play is impeccable, and looks like a FB for the next 12 years. surprising he's still only 20. At the other end of the ground, we have the messiah, Michael Hurley. He has shown in his limited game time that he can tear a game apart within 10-15 minutes and looks like he'll be a star. kicks over 50m with both feet as well.
Cale Hooker and Scott Gumbleton also deserve mentions as well. Cale looks like a good, solid CHB in years to come. He's shown that he can match it with the best key forwards in the land, including Lance "Buddy" Franklin and Nick "Roo" Riewoldt, and can also rebound. oh and he pwned Mooney in round 1 as well. Gumbleton looks like a young Riewoldt in many ways. he has a great tank, solid kick, and has shown he has better hands than a lot of players at his age. he is a CHF that we've been waiting for.
We now have a solid group of smalls/mediums as well. Angus Monfries and David Zaharakis spring to mind immediately forward and Courtney Dempsey and Henry Slattery down back. Gus looks like a very smart lead-up HFF in the RO'K mold. He's been playing as an under-sized CHF for a couple of years now, hopefully he can be released as that HFF who is the link-up player from defence and kick a couple of goals a game. Zaka looks like a forward who produces magic some times, but is just a solid HFF/FP IMO.
Dempsey is IMO a young Andy McLeod and looks like he'll be a creator for the next 8-10 years. His run off HB was exceptional this time last season, but has taken a step back this year. He is incredibly gifted, but must become more accountable if he's gonna go anywhere in defence. Could become a very good HBF if he wants to. Slattery has copped a lot of criticism on this board for a long time. His record against Small forwards speaks for itself. He has beaten the likes of Betts, Rioli, Medhurst, Davis, Mayne, Steven Johnson, Brad Johnson, and Lindsay Thomas among others, and looks rock-solid back there, if he can make his kick more penetrating he could become as good as Josh Hunt. He's got to work on that, and he'll be one of the best BP in the competition.
On to who/what we need to become a serious premiership contender. 1 thing. superstar midfielder. Jobe Watson is likely to become the A-Grade in-and-under mid that supplies this superstar the ball. If we had an Adam Cooney/Gary Ablett Jr./Chris Judd player we would probably be in serious contention of the top 4 right now. We have our B-Graders and now we just need one Superstar to become a force in the comp.
most of you wouldn't have read this, but feel free to criticize this if you want, suggestions wanted of course
On to who/what we need to become a serious premiership contender. 1 thing. superstar midfielder. Jobe Watson is likely to become the A-Grade in-and-under mid that supplies this superstar the ball. If we had an Adam Cooney/Gary Ablett Jr./Chris Judd player we would probably be in serious contention of the top 4 right now. We have our B-Graders and now we just need one Superstar to become a force in the comp.
most of you wouldn't have read this, but feel free to criticize this if you want, suggestions wanted of course
I was hoping that Winderlich was going to become that Cooney type A - Grader type player, but he seems to have gone backwards a step over the pre season.
eth-dog
13 Apr 2010, 19:18
I was hoping that Winderlich was going to become that Cooney type A - Grader type player, but he seems to have gone backwards a step over the pre season.
See him as a B+ grade player, possibly A- type at best. But one can only hope
See him as a B+ grade player, possibly A- type at best. But one can only hope
Yeah, like i said, am hopeful he can find that consistency that sets him and Stanton apart.
ghostdog
13 Apr 2010, 19:24
How old is Winderlich? 25 - 26? He should be starting to come into his own consistently if he's going to be an A grader I would have thought.
How old is Winderlich? 25 - 26? He should be starting to come into his own consistently if he's going to be an A grader I would have thought.
He showed 'those signs' last year. He just needs to find that consistency that I was speaking about.
Frothies Mcveigh
13 Apr 2010, 19:35
A quick gun midfielder and better disposal efficency. Hurley Gumby Hooker and Pears to really excell in their respective positions.
Yep, improvement in disposal efficiency is the biggest one for mine.
IMO, we have the cattle on our list right now to win us a premiership. The game plan is deadly, and this season has shown the early stages of Plan B (zoning, slowing the tempo down ala Carlton). However to pull both of these off, our disposal efficiency needs to improve significantly.
Yep, improvement in disposal efficiency is the biggest one for mine.
IMO, we have the cattle on our list right now to win us a premiership. The game plan is deadly, and this season has shown the early stages of Plan B (zoning, slowing the tempo down ala Carlton). However to pull both of these off, our disposal efficiency needs to improve significantly.
This is what I have been saying for a while now, however, we have too many 'nothing' ball users. Players that are very hit and miss.
kelvin_sheedy
13 Apr 2010, 19:47
I'm a firm believer the list is one quality midfielder away from being a top 4 side and then challenging through natural improvement.
Add any one of these guys Mitchell, Murphy, Selwood, Bartel, Hayes and it sends a wave through the side and makes everyone better.
Melksham might be the guy but he's another 2-3 seasons away from playing at that level.
This is what I have been saying for a while now, however, we have too many 'nothing' ball users. Players that are very hit and miss.So do you put that down to:
A) Players (i.e. Prismall, Dempsey, Welsh) not being good enough for #17
B) Poor fitness (by all reports it's still not in the top echelon of AFL clubs) resulting in sloppy skills
C) Being an inexperienced side that will improve its skill level over the next 1-3 years
Whomb
I heard a comment last year, and it is not about players #1 - 10/15, but in fact it is players $16 to say #25.
And at the moment, these players (# 16/#18 - #22) are not good enough to match it with the big guns at the moment.
So we need to improve these players (hope players like Melksham/Colyer/Carlisle/T.Slattery) can stand up, and over take the players that currently hold these spots (Hocking/Welsh/H.Slattery).
Until then, we are going to plateau as a side.
One thing we do need is, a two way attacking/defensive co hesive unit. At the moment, our mids sell our defenders into trouble by not manning up and getting back.
But hey, just my opinions
Yep, you're spot on about midfielders putting the heat on our defenders.
Were it not for Pears, Fletcher and (cue an outcry) Slattery getting to most contests, we'd be in even more of a dire situation.
Boucks09
13 Apr 2010, 20:43
It's an interesting question.
The template for the last 9 premiership sides has seen each side have a minimum of 2-3 gun midfielders as the basis of the team.
2009 - Ablett, Bartel, Selwood, Corey, Chapman
2008 - Hodge, Sewell, Mitchell
2007- as above
2006 - Judd, Cousins, Kerr
2005 - Goodes, Kirk
2004 - Wanganeen, Burgoyne (x2)
2003 - Voss, Black, Akermanis, Power
2002 - as above
2001 - as above
Now I've left off our 2000 side because I don't think that we had a gun midfield. Hird was a utility, Mercs wasn't as good as he was in 1999 and Blumfield, Heffernan,Misiti, JJ etc were solid players but not superstars. Our dominance was based on being a balanced team and a superstar defence and forward line.
I'm actually seeing some similarities between that side and our current list. A very solid defense, potential for superstar forwards and a workmanlike midfield. The only difference is we are missing that superstar utility (Hird).
I'm actually not too worried about our midfield at the moment apart from the use of the ball forward of the centre. We are winning plenty of contested possession, but just need a bit of tweaking in regards to our disposal and defensive running - both which I feel can be improved as the group matures and with the inclusion of players such as Zaharakis, Melksham, Reimers etc.
We have seen in the past (e.g 1990's) that a great forward line can make any midfield look great. Just like a great midfield can make a an average forward line look great (e.g. Geelong). I've got a feeling we could do the former to compensate for our lack of midfield star power.
In regards to the superstar utility.....Hurley could be a Pavlich :D
Smyth94
13 Apr 2010, 20:54
I'm a firm believer the list is one quality midfielder away from being a top 4 side and then challenging through natural improvement.
Add any one of these guys Mitchell, Murphy, Selwood, Bartel, Hayes and it sends a wave through the side and makes everyone better.
Melksham might be the guy but he's another 2-3 seasons away from playing at that level.
That's fine by me, by that time players such as Hurley, Gumbleton, Pears and Hooker will be reaching the 70-100 game mark - I think we're about 2-3-4 seasons away from challenging (i.e. finishing top 4 consistently)
Remember, it took Geelong 5 years to win a flag with their current crop and inbetween they made the finals a few times
Don't need a star.
Just need the right attitude to the contest.
All stars do is squeeze money out of the salary cap.
citizen-erased
13 Apr 2010, 22:59
3 things.
Danniher to match Pears and Hookers development to play CHB.
Prismall to get out of the form slump
neither are outside the realm of possibility.
the last, and lynch me for it, the penetrating elite mid. that x-factor that is hard to counter, creates the goals or kicks them himself.
in a word, Andrew Lovett of 2009.
Perhaps Davey can provide that. Or even Winderlich. but Lovett was the only consolation i had when we passed on rioli.
stay true
13 Apr 2010, 23:17
We need one or both of Melksham and Zaka to become A grade midfielders (or there abouts), plus it would be even better if we manage to nail a couple of midfielder picks in the next couple of drafts. Watson is great but I think he has another level to lift to, as does Stanton IMO and maybe that will come with the potential emergence of Melkman and Zaka.
Mad Bomber Sean
13 Apr 2010, 23:22
Really challaging question. The following should at least bring us some of the way:
-An absolute gun mid would be awesome.
-A major improvement in skill, fitness & attitude of the whole player group.
-A major evolution in our game plan. It lacks serious defensive pressure. Our mids dont always run the other way. It would be useful to borrow from the Saints or Swans in this department perhaps, slow the game down to protect the lead - bring in a full court zone press when needed? We seriously need to develop this side of the game plan & fast.
-Our forward line hasnt really settled yet, and players are still adjusting to the departure or Lloyd/Lucas & arrival of Williams/Gumby/Zaha/Reimers/Hurley..These guys need to learn how to play with each other so they work systematically & our mids know where to deliver the ball.
- Creative speedy skillful smart & calm lock down defender ( a Gavin Wanganeen type )
- Significant improvement from the 10th best to the 25th best player on our list ( this is where most of our progress will come from)
Haduken
14 Apr 2010, 00:34
A better small/midsized defender. Hank Slattery is an honest worker, but he's always going to be cut up by talented opposition small forwards.
Nasty Penguin
14 Apr 2010, 01:37
As of this week we'll have a spine to work with:
Pears
Hooker
Watson
Gumbleton
Hurley
We lack, I think, three key elements now:
1) Tagger: Welsh does an honest job and I thought Hocking was going to take that role last year but there seems to be no one set for the job. My advise would be over the next two preseasons build Slattery's tank and have him tag as he doesn't need to get high disposals just shut someone out.
2) Quarterback: Every team seems to have one than can just dominate (to be honest Hirdy was doing this years ago). Names that spring to mind are Stanton, Dempsey, Myers and Prismall. All just need to be given a good opportunity to my the role their own.
3) Speedster: Had Lovett, glad he's gone to be honest, Davey is an option but is a shadow of his former self since the broken arm. Colyer has the speed and with some games under his belt his kicking will get much better.
I give it another two seasons for the bombers to be constantly knocking on the top four door. This year is really about settling the side that had two legends retire. The dust will settle around round 10.
Also Hirdy needs to become an assistant coach ;)
bipolarbeaR
14 Apr 2010, 04:10
All we need is game time into our youngsters without getting smashed around, and getting the occasional upset.
Experience into our youngsters is the most important thing if we want a flag.
Stanton is 23 and has 125 games to his name, if we can get Melky, Colyer, Hurley, Zaharakis and Pears doing the same thing then we will be set :)
HF: David Zaharakis, Scott Gumbleton, Kyle Reimers
FF: Angus Monfries, Michael Hurley, Mark Williams
In 2.5 years that will be one of the best forward lines in the comp.
New coach with some semblance of an idea and a decent game plan - simple. Most posts here state, in various ways, that we have a pretty good nucleus of a team, so it only leaves one obvious and glaring omission - Knights!! Oh and possibly replace the clowns on the board that added 2 YEARS !!!!! to his contract before he had done SFA!
centurion
14 Apr 2010, 07:42
The youngsters to get games under their belt which will help them develop consistency. We're lacking consistency in our performances. Not to mention the more senior players as well.
Donakebab
14 Apr 2010, 08:04
Kick straight. :thumbsu:
Any team that can kick for goal better then the rest of the competition goes a long way towards winning the flag.
Ben the Gooner
14 Apr 2010, 08:33
Need to trade for an A-Grade midfielder who is ready to go now.
Slattery_20
14 Apr 2010, 09:00
Forward line's about a year away, IMHO. Good signs from Gumbie, Reimers, etc.
Backline is good to go. Still needs a bit of tweaking, fine-tuning, but nothing majorly wrong barring injury.
Midfield needs work. If we could buy a gun, it'd help but wouldn't get us to the top. I daresay we won't (nor be able to) do that. Need Melksham and Myers to come through, Zaha having spells through there, and Winderlich to show more of his better footy. ie - 2-3 years away.
Think our big problem is that Hille will be retired by the time the younger midfielders really gets going.
homerg29
14 Apr 2010, 09:15
In my opinion you need a couple of things for success.
1. Luck with injuries
2. Bigger bodies
3. More experience
If we can put some size on across the board we will be far better able to compete consistantly for a whole season. Then if we can keep most of our players on the park playing as a unit for a two to three year period we will be in the top four challenging for the flag.
theboxmike
14 Apr 2010, 09:24
Forward line's about a year away, IMHO. Good signs from Gumbie, Reimers, etc.
Backline is good to go. Still needs a bit of tweaking, fine-tuning, but nothing majorly wrong barring injury.
Midfield needs work. If we could buy a gun, it'd help but wouldn't get us to the top. I daresay we won't (nor be able to) do that. Need Melksham and Myers to come through, Zaha having spells through there, and Winderlich to show more of his better footy. ie - 2-3 years away.
Think our big problem is that Hille will be retired by the time the younger midfielders really gets going.
I'm not so sure, he looks great for 29 being a big bodied ruckmen, he is moving a lot better than i expected to be honest. Barring Major Injuries i think we should be ok
Slattery_20
14 Apr 2010, 09:32
Hille's occasionally outdone for pace now, he's not going to be going another 4/5 years. I'd say 3, tops. 32 is a fair old age nowadays.
Forward line's about a year away, IMHO. Good signs from Gumbie, Reimers, etc.
Backline is good to go. Still needs a bit of tweaking, fine-tuning, but nothing majorly wrong barring injury.
Midfield needs work. If we could buy a gun, it'd help but wouldn't get us to the top. I daresay we won't (nor be able to) do that. Need Melksham and Myers to come through, Zaha having spells through there, and Winderlich to show more of his better footy. ie - 2-3 years away.
Think our big problem is that Hille will be retired by the time the younger midfielders really gets going.
Easy, Ryder # 1 ruckmen, Hille # 2 ruckmen. Easily fixed, Bellchambers showed some promising signs last year in the VFL (Frankston game in particular), he may even be able to come on this year or next.
Slattery_20
14 Apr 2010, 09:37
I rate Bellie as a reasonable enough #2 sort, but right now we rely on getting pretty decent value out of our 2 rucks both in there, and around the ground. You get a lot less around the gruond out of Bellie.
Call Me Cake
14 Apr 2010, 09:42
A key forward. Duh.
http://i42.tinypic.com/15wfcy8.gif
http://i44.tinypic.com/sxhc81.gif
But just where the hell are we going to find one?
Sigh.
I rate Bellie as a reasonable enough #2 sort, but right now we rely on getting pretty decent value out of our 2 rucks both in there, and around the ground. You get a lot less around the gruond out of Bellie.
He does add a bit around the ground, in the forementioned game he gathered quite a few disposals, and used them well to. Give him time and he will show us something ;)
Slattery_20
14 Apr 2010, 09:48
That's a big step up that he has to make in 2 or 3 years, from dominating the odd VFL game to doing it at AFL level.
That's a big step up that he has to make in 2 or 3 years, from dominating the odd VFL game to doing it at AFL level.
Give him time then, he is only what, 21?
Slattery_20
14 Apr 2010, 10:36
I'm not sledging him, or having a crack, or calling for his delisting, I'm saying it will most likely be a fair step down from Hille. That's all.
The Donners
14 Apr 2010, 11:11
Need to trade for an A-Grade midfielder who is ready to go now.
Deledio. I said in another thread I predict he and Richmond to part company at the end of this season.
kelvin_sheedy
14 Apr 2010, 12:22
Deledio. I said in another thread I predict he and Richmond to part company at the end of this season.
Delidio is not an A grade midfielder in the calibre of Mitchel, Bartel, Selwood, Hayes .... heck even Marc Murphy is light years ahead.
Lance Uppercut
14 Apr 2010, 12:29
I'm a firm believer the list is one quality midfielder away from being a top 4 side and then challenging through natural improvement.
and yet you still want to sack the coach who's made it happen, and you put up threads on the main board saying we're pipe and that every negative thing written about us is true. Go figure...
centurion
14 Apr 2010, 12:33
and yet you still want to sack the coach who's made it happen, and you put up threads on the main board saying we're pipe and that every negative thing written about us is true. Go figure...
Could be a bit of reverse psychology happening here.
Valve Bounce
14 Apr 2010, 12:34
A little bored, so i thought I would start a new thread.
Was thinking today, what do Essendon need to take that next step in their quest for # 17?
Let's not get carried away just because we won our first game of the year against Carlton.
This weekend will start to show what we really need and whether we have it. Our ruckmen are up against Cox and Nat - we can't just rely on our mids piacking up crumbs from their rucks like we did against Freo.
Then our guys have to start cutting out the silly mistakes - no need to list them here, I think we all know what they are.
Then our guys will have to kick straight, and handball straight.
When they can do all the above, we can discuss the next level.
stugots
14 Apr 2010, 12:45
well i know what we DONT need - to lose any of the up & comers to the gc or gws in coming years, which unfortunately is more likely than not, at least we're not alone in this regard.
baring injury, fletch could play to 40 & the defense in coming together nicely. so ramp up the forward structure, hopefully hurley can be a standout, zaca's looking an out & out gun, midfields serviceable & should continue to improve
so reckon we dont need much, just a bit of luck along teh way & she'll be right
Ben the Gooner
14 Apr 2010, 12:50
Deledio. I said in another thread I predict he and Richmond to part company at the end of this season.
Yeah, he's a good example. Another couple of names I'd like us to look at are Nathan van Berlo, Travis Boak and Jed Adcock.
Delidio is not an A grade midfielder in the calibre of Mitchel, Bartel, Selwood, Hayes .... heck even Marc Murphy is light years ahead.
Put him in our midfield instead of Richmonds, and he'll look a lot better.
Valve Bounce
14 Apr 2010, 12:54
I've heard many supporters of other clubs say that Essendon are not in the habit of trading to get "good" players from other clubs - it is more a case of developing Essendon's own from good drafts.
How our present list improves in the next few games will tell the story.
kelvin_sheedy
14 Apr 2010, 13:01
and yet you still want to sack the coach who's made it happen, and you put up threads on the main board saying we're pipe and that every negative thing written about us is true. Go figure...
It's the coach and selectors that have cost us 4-5 wins over the past year.
The list was being regenerated from about 05 so we should be seeing some of the fruits of it now. The list is good enough to play finals and if we aren't careful we'll tread water and then go backwards ... ala Richmond.
Heck I'm on record saying that virtually any club is 2 players away from being a top 4 player.
I think the Freo game could be the kick in the teeth the club needed and by the outs you could see a lot of trust was lost in a few players. Maybe Knights getting burned by his players will teach him the ruthlessness and the win at all costs attitude we should employ from now on.
kelvin_sheedy
14 Apr 2010, 13:08
Yeah, he's a good example. Another couple of names I'd like us to look at are Nathan van Berlo, Travis Boak and Jed Adcock.
Put him in our midfield instead of Richmonds, and he'll look a lot better.
I doubt it. He doesn't have the inside smarts to play the role we are desperately looking for. He doesn't have a natural footy brain. I'd go for him in trade period because he's a damn good player but to suggest A grade mid is not right.
Jed Adcock doesn't play midfield anymore. He doesn't have the running capacity or ability to play that role. He's Andrew Welsh mark II.
Boak is a possibility. Good player but I'm not sure he'll ever elevate to the heights needed.
TimeReaper
14 Apr 2010, 17:53
Delidio is not an A grade midfielder in the calibre of Mitchel, Bartel, Selwood, Hayes .... heck even Marc Murphy is light years ahead.
I think he is. Look how good he is in a crap team, He would do wonders in a half decent team. I would love to have him in the Red and Black
Boucks09
14 Apr 2010, 18:41
Delidio is not an A grade midfielder in the calibre of Mitchel, Bartel, Selwood, Hayes .... heck even Marc Murphy is light years ahead.
He is nowhere near the class of the other 4 players you have named there.
Mitchell's disposal is not elite, he has a tendency to rack up a lot of cheap stats at half back and he has zero impact on the scoreboard in terms of goals.
He is in the area between Jobe (better than Jobe) and elite.