Our midfield setup

[stay true]

Can I just say that I'm normally not into making rash posts about changes 4 days after a game let alone the day of the game but I'm just shattered in the way we got beaten today.

Anyway, our midfield setup, it's clearly not working, which is really concerning seeing as it's the most experienced group in our team. Apart from really Watson and Stanton, the rest have been serviceable or poor. More often than not, poor. When we got rid of Lovett I was foolish to think it wouldn't affect us THAT much, but with our current midfield setup it's left a massive hole.

Changes need to be made and they need to be made now. The current group are not working hard enough. Pressure on opponents seems non-existent and we are always outnumbered at contests. On top of that when we have the ball we are butchering it.

I know we won't see all of Welsh, McVeigh, Winderlich, Hocking, Colyer all dropped but do we really have a choice right now at 1-4? We need to take some risks now instead of playing the "safe bets". Now is the time to try Myers in the middle, Houli on a wing, Zaharakis in the centre. I dunno, just something different.

It's just so ****ing frustrating to watch.:(

[Skeeta Olly]

It lets the whole team down IMO. You can't have half those players running around just because the show leadership or have experience. There are plenty of rookie listed players that should be getting a game over Welsh and Hocking,

[stay true]

It lets the whole team down IMO. You can't have half those players running around just because the show leadership or have experience. There are plenty of rookie listed players that should be getting a game over Welsh and Hocking,
Yeah exactly. Going forward they are giving our forwards no hope and when they turn it over they hang our defence out to dry with no pressure what so ever on the opposition midfielders when they deliver to their forwards.

[Skeeta Olly]

Exactly!

We have a solid defense and a promising forward line. It's the bit in the middle thats stuffing it all up. Something needs to happen, but it wont.

[JD11]

Id like to see guys like reimers, houli, myers and zaka going through the centre. It would be a lot better than having Welsh plodding around there.

[mdc]

Not sure if this is the right place, or if you really want to hear from a Pie man right now, but...

Is there too much duplication of weaknesses with Watson and Stanton? Watson is a freak obviously, and you can happily put up with him not being accountable etc given his offensive influence...but Stanton also really struggles with the defensive side, and today had player after player just waltz away from him and beat him in one-on-ones.

I bring this up because we had something very similar last year (and early this year) with Didak and O'Bree. Neither chase, and Didak in particular is horrendous in one-on-ones. As a result, we've always been absolutely smashed by the opposition's primary mids. However, since O'Bree's been dropped, Didak's the only real liability remaining, and as a result we've seen a much tougher midfield unit.

I'm not too sure on how Essendon go against the opposition's best mids in general, but it seems to me that unless Ryder/Hille give you first use, it's going to be very hard for you to stop opposition setups when Watson (who I rate very highly) and Stanton are 2 of the primary mids. Can Stanton play elsewhere, like HBF? Should he?

Just my 2c, feel free to flame away.

[Skeeta Olly]

You're 100% right, but it's not just Watson and Stanton.

It's Hocking, Welsh, Prismal etc.

[stay true]

You're bang on mdc but like Skeeta said, it's the rest of the midfielders that are letting us down. You can't have Watson and Stanton in the same midfield as Hocking, Welsh and even Prismall. Stanton could be used off a half back flank like a Joel Corey, but the fact is we desperately need him in the centre right now.

Melksham will be a very nice addition when he bulks up a bit more and gets some games under his belt as he's got good skills and he's got a bit of zip about him.

[rines]

Not sure if this is the right place, or if you really want to hear from a Pie man right now, but...

Is there too much duplication of weaknesses with Watson and Stanton? Watson is a freak obviously, and you can happily put up with him not being accountable etc given his offensive influence...but Stanton also really struggles with the defensive side, and today had player after player just waltz away from him and beat him in one-on-ones.

I bring this up because we had something very similar last year (and early this year) with Didak and O'Bree. Neither chase, and Didak in particular is horrendous in one-on-ones. As a result, we've always been absolutely smashed by the opposition's primary mids. However, since O'Bree's been dropped, Didak's the only real liability remaining, and as a result we've seen a much tougher midfield unit.

I'm not too sure on how Essendon go against the opposition's best mids in general, but it seems to me that unless Ryder/Hille give you first use, it's going to be very hard for you to stop opposition setups when Watson (who I rate very highly) and Stanton are 2 of the primary mids. Can Stanton play elsewhere, like HBF? Should he?

Just my 2c, feel free to flame away.

ughhhh its horrible hearing sense from a pie! But spot on.. this is really the problem.. too many guys that need to be carried for one reason on the other. A midfield full of plodders. I think these misconception that we are a "fast" side is a by-product of the lovett, jetta, davey era when we seemed to be speedy.

The reality is the guys running through the middle now are stants, watson, hocking, slattery, prismall, welsh etc.. all of them are slow and get beaton 1-1 a lot. I think we need to establish which ones we can cover, ie watson because he is brilliant and keeps giving you something.. and then really assess the others and make some changes.

Need to play far more speed through the middle OR better skilled players. Can't have bad skills and slow.. its a recipe for disaster..

[Skeeta Olly]

Skills are another thing. Terrible. Knights needs to realise 400m sprints don't help skills.

[Frothies Mcveigh]

Houli, Watson, Stanton, Reimers, and Zaharakis need to be given a go together. Also with Melksham coming off the pine.

[Skeeta Olly]

Houli, Watson, Stanton, Reimers, and Zaharakis need to be given a go together. Also with Melksham coming off the pine.

Nup. No defensive pressure. Agree with Zaharakis on the ball though.

[BomberDog]

I think our midfield started 2009 pretty well.

Then we brought back McVeigh, Welsh, Prismall simultaneously from injury. Strangely, the midfield really slowed down...and despite adding some 'experience' and 'toughness', we are no better at winning the ball, or running defensively.

I wanna go back in time.

[westking101]

I dont think our midfield is slow or fast, I think we are just "one paced"! Watson, Stanton, Welsh, Hocking all canter at the same speed. All good players in their own right but when together in one midfield?? Oppositions have worked Essendon out. Apply heavy defensive pressure on the midfield and the turn overs will come. No one in the midfield has the confidence to break any lines. NO ONE! Lovett did it many times last year, so did Winderlich. Because of this the feed into the forward line (when it gets there) is poor and thus affects the confidence of our forward line. I feel sorry for the players in the forward line.

[stillGOTmyBEANIE]

Skills are another thing. Terrible. Knights needs to realise 400m sprints don't help skills.

I think Knights has the SNL "More cowbell" theory to the 400 sprints. Maybe PP could hook up a youtube to lighten the board :( :thumbsu:

Nothing wrong with most of our individual Mids, but we cant carry the whole group IMO.

[Darealrath]

I think we can stick a fork in Welsh, he's done.

The loss of Lovett is killing us, and it's being compounded by the MIA performances of Winderlich this season.

I know most won't agree with this but I would love to see Jetta come back and into the midfield. He might need another VFL game to get his fitness up but he has good defensive attributes and can actually use the footy.

Hopefully Reimers can play more footy through the midfield too, because he's one of the few who looks dangerous when he has it.

[Dkid]

I think our midfield started 2009 pretty well.

Then we brought back McVeigh, Welsh, Prismall simultaneously from injury. Strangely, the midfield really slowed down...and despite adding some 'experience' and 'toughness', we are no better at winning the ball, or running defensively.

I wanna go back in time.

just wondering who would have started in the midfield in 2009 with those guys out. Watson, stanton and who else?

[anf06]

You're 100% right, but it's not just Watson and Stanton.

It's Hocking, Welsh, Prismal etc.

Harsh on Pris.

Let him play before you give him smack.

BRING HIM BACK!

Malthouse brought up a marvelous point about players form in the 2s. Basically saying form in the seconds don't matter, it's your ability to bring your game to the AFL. Sure Coyler might look good at VFL but can't hit a target in AFL. Pris has proven he can match it with the best.

Winders, McVeigh, NML, Welsh are all given a free pass to find form in the seniors yet Prismall gets banished to Bendigo for some reason. Watch the Fremantle game again, Prismall was better than everyone of those players (except NML because he didn't play). Yet somehow he gets dropped because the coach is too scared to drop these players because of their 'name'.

Prismalls disposal is hell of a lot better (even at his worst) than Coyler, NML, Welsh, McViegh. Half of the team at the moment.

Put him in the seniors so he can show you and all these supporters that we need his class and poise around our midfield, which clearly is lacking outside of Stanton and Watson.

[SDR223]

Why in the world is Lovett Murray starting as a midfielder? This defies any kind of logic. He doesn;t bring any defensive pressure and doesn;t win clearances - he even looks uncomfortable.

Zaharakis should be player more often along side Watson and Stanton.

Dempsey needs to be given an opportunity to play midfield also.

[IM_REAL]

The reason we are so useless is because of our midfield. If we actually won some clearences it would put less pressure on our team, who continously have to try this handball, running crap coming out of the backline.

Seriously apart from Watson, none of our other midfielders would get a gig in any other teams midfield. To think that Stanton is probably our 2nd best midfielder is frightening. We need some game breakers, someone who can use there pace, or kicking skills, that would hurt oppositions.

Untill this happens im afraid we wont improve as a club.

[WeAreEssendon]

Time to back in the following 4 guys for the next 6 weeks:

Watson, Stanton, Hocking, Howlett.

The first 2 pick themselves and the next two have probably the best all round game of the rest. The we add a bit of pace around them and a bit of run and see if we can get some continuity.

Say goodbye to Welsh and leave McVeigh as a permanent bp.

[DaSawx]

I'm sick of losing the clearance count, must happen 70% of the time.

Whose fault is it? The coaches, apart from Watson no one really wants the ball, they watch their opponents, while they run right at it and off they go?
Why are we so reactionary around the stoppages?

Is it the recruiters fault, **** skill/athleticism, the collective brain power of our midfield group would be the worst in the league, bar none.

We need a total overhaul. Our KP stocks are more than fine, we need an aggressive approach on other teams players or just about 100% of our draft picks and delistings over the next few years need to be midfielders so we can find enough decent 'footallers' to field an AFL side.

Winderlich - good enough to keep but needs to pull his ****ing arse into gear
Prismall - avg player in avg side, GC trade bait
McVeigh - see Winderlich
Welsh - should be in trouble
Lonergan - doesn't do enough, de-list possibility (baring contract status)
Hocking - overall package not best 22
Houli - too turnover prone

Draft as many midfielders as we can and throw money at the Selwoods, Boaks ect

[The Donners]

To me it seems the players have already conceded they won't be playing finals in 2010. In fact, I don't think our players are listening to the coach, I don't think they have any sort of faith in Knights' plans and as a result I don't expect to be seeing 22 players coming together to have a real dip this season under Knights. The relationship is broken, there is nothing that can repair it. We can name any changes we want to but it'll make no difference this season - our players are not playing for the coach.

[bombersno1]

This is what I was saying 3 years ago. All well and good drafting KPP's galore, but midfielders win more games than big talls these days. Look at Geelong for crying out loud.

[silk]

This is what I was saying 3 years ago. All well and good drafting KPP's galore, but midfielders win more games than big talls these days. Look at Geelong for crying out loud.

Yeah, but look at St Kilda, good midfield, but could barely score a goal now without... reivolt (god i hate typing his name, can never spell it)

Also, I guess you don't consider Scarlett a good KPP. What about Egan, not a bad CHB. Lets also keep in mind that geelong have two of the best forwards of the decade in Johnson and Chapman, each who have won a norm smith. I think those two players more then make up for the averageness of Mooney and Ablett\Hawkins.

[bombersno1]

St Kilda have won how many premierships in recent times? The last real KPP heavy side was Hawthorn in 2008, apart from that midfields in recent times have been more crucial. I am all for drafting KPP but we need to draft genuine midfielders. Too many flanker midfielders have been drafted with our 2nd/3rd rounders.