View Full Version : Kretiuk Out!
the ghost of alby smedts
31 May 2003, 19:54
Steven Kretiuk should be dropped for what he did today.
To give away 50m at such a critcal moment like he did is shameful .
What would the young blokes in the team have felt at that stage. Here they were trying to stem the tide when the oposition had a run on and they see the most experienced defender give away an absolute gift.
There was nothing to gain and everything to loose in that situation.
He should be made an example of. And I dont want to here how much we need his toughness and experince and we cant afford to drop him ect ect .
So whats the worst that happens they loose another game.
A message needs to be sent .
Isdogisgood
31 May 2003, 20:31
Thats a bit harsh. Players get away with doing it all the time. I thought it was pretty soft but then i am biased of course. Its not like he threw him to the ground towards the fence or rode him into the ground by falling on top of him. It was a silly thing to do but i think he was worried that he would kick it to someone on a better angle, and was trying to hold him up until the defenders had plugged the holes and gotten into position.
Blaming players, the coach or one incident will get us no where. What message do you want sent...don't play with emotion? Maybe it was the wrong thing to do at that stage but things like that are bound to happen....players get frustrated sometimes.
Its dangerous to drop players like that just to send a message. You could pick out a number of players for other indiscretions that happened during the game, like players going against instruction. Its unfair to pick one player out. Almost the same mentality behind the Matthew 'scapegoat' Capuano debarcle.
We don't want players turning on each other and pointing fingers.
I think the message that needs to be sent is that the team is good enough, they just need to believe in themselves and each other, that if they stick to the game plan, the wins will come.
the ghost of alby smedts
31 May 2003, 20:52
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Isdogisgood
[B]Thats a bit harsh. Players get away with doing it all the time. I thought it was pretty soft but then i am biased of course. Its not like he threw him to the ground towards the fence or rode him into the ground by falling on top of him. It was a silly thing to do but i think he was worried that he would kick it to someone on a better angle, and was trying to hold him up until the defenders had plugged the holes and gotten into position.
Blaming players, the coach or one incident will get us no where. What message do you want sent...don't play with emotion? Maybe it was the wrong thing to do at that stage but things like that are bound to happen....players get frustrated sometimes.
Its dangerous to drop players like that just to send a message. You could pick out a number of players for other indiscretions that happened during the game, like players going against instruction. Its unfair to pick one player out. Almost the same mentality behind the Matthew 'scapegoat' Capuano debarcle.
We don't want players turning on each other and pointing fingers.
I think the message that needs to be sent is that the team is good enough, they just need to believe in themselves and each other, that if they stick to the game plan, the wins will come.
Thats a bit harsh you say. Take a look at it again. He came in late well after the ball had been marked,the player was over the boundry at the time,he grabbed him and slung him to the ground.
the only thing that was ever going to come out of it was 50m and a goal. It was undisciplined and stupid.
IMO the only reason you would keep this 10 game a year hack at the club would be to try and teach the younger ones a thing or two and if thats what he got to offer well he may as well hang the boots up now.
Isdogisgood
31 May 2003, 21:14
I have seen players get away with much worse. I agree, he shouldn't have done it, and i believe he was dragged for it as well. But, given that players are only human and do make mistakes, you cannot drop them everytime they do the wrong thing.
You object to my assessment of your comments as being harsh and then you call him a '10 game a year hack'! First of all he is not a hack. He has been injured a fair bit during his career but he has gotten a lot from it imo just like Crofty. Players like Hargrave could learn a lot from them...how to get the most out of yourself. Secondly, its also not why we lost.
If that is how we are going to deal with players mistakes, then perhaps we should all just give up now :rolleyes:
The_Flying_Egg
31 May 2003, 21:18
Kretiuk's inspirational. To drop hom for that would be a slap in the face to somebody not deserving of one. He made a mistake, it was very dumb. But to drop him would be a disgrace
the ghost of alby smedts
31 May 2003, 21:47
[Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg
Kretiuk's inspirational. To drop hom for that would be a slap in the face to somebody not deserving of one. He made a mistake, it was very dumb. But to drop him would be a disgrace
I have never found Kretiuk to be inspirational.For most of the time he has been an average player at best.
The only reason he is regarded as one of our best defenders is because for the last decade we have not had any outstanding defenders.(Grant being the execption)
Add the fact that he only ever comes up for about half the games per year I don't see him as a great asset ,like some do.
Harsh? maybe but thats how I see it.
Isdogisgood
31 May 2003, 21:56
I guess it depends on what you are inspired by. Talent and excellence or hard work and desperation...Chris Grant has it all, but not all players are blessed with his talent. You have to make the most of what you have and Kretiuk has done this....so has Croft, Libba etc. Given that we haven't had much depth in the backline, the guys that have been playing there for the last 10 years or whatever have done a good job. It is easy to play well in defence if you have quality defenders along side you, but we have always been stretched in defence, particularly for height.
OldSchool
31 May 2003, 22:03
Originally posted by the ghost of alby smedts
[Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg
Kretiuk's inspirational. To drop hom for that would be a slap in the face to somebody not deserving of one. He made a mistake, it was very dumb. But to drop him would be a disgrace
I have never found Kretiuk to be inspirational.For most of the time he has been an average player at best.
The only reason he is regarded as one of our best defenders is because for the last decade we have not had any outstanding defenders.(Grant being the execption)
Add the fact that he only ever comes up for about half the games per year I don't see him as a great asset ,like some do.
Harsh? maybe but thats how I see it.
Kretiuk gets the most out of his ability, I suppose a little like Libba, and that is why people find him inspriational. He has been given some big assignments over the years and has normally handled them well. To me, only injuries have marred what would have been a great career
the ghost of alby smedts
31 May 2003, 22:33
Im sorry I just can't have it. Please don't compare Kretiuk to Libba. You are using the term inspirational very loosely here.
Yes he has been given some tough tasks in the past and at times has held his own. He has had alot of bags kicked on him over the years and it wasnt always his falt. Rarely does his name feature in the best players list. Battles away and gets the ball over the boundry line when the heat is on. Gives away stupid frees at times.
Average player? Yes. Inspirational? no.
Isdogisgood
31 May 2003, 22:41
Its not hard to see why you want him dropped. Who do you think you are, you can't tell ppl not to compare players. Its just your opinion.
OldSchool
31 May 2003, 22:55
Originally posted by the ghost of alby smedts
Im sorry I just can't have it. Please don't compare Kretiuk to Libba. You are using the term inspirational very loosely here.
Yes he has been given some tough tasks in the past and at times has held his own. He has had alot of bags kicked on him over the years and it wasnt always his falt. Rarely does his name feature in the best players list. Battles away and gets the ball over the boundry line when the heat is on. Gives away stupid frees at times.
Average player? Yes. Inspirational? no.
I wasn't using the term loosely as it was only a minor comparision to Libba and I was just trying to explain why others can find an over achieving battler like Kretiuk inspirational.
Both Libba and Kretiuk got more out of their limited ability than others with substantially more ability and because they do, others find them to be inspirational. You don't have to kick a 100 goals in a season or take spectacular marks to be an inspiration. Second and third efforts, strong tackling, and the ability to beat bigger opponents do not always make it to the best players of the paper however, they also do not go unnoticed.
IMO, You must have a short or cloudy memory of Kretiuk's achievements if you don't rate some of his efforts highly. I wont forget some of his games against players like Ablett in a hurry. Kretiuk was too small, too slow and couldn't kick and yet he had the respect and fear of a lot of his opponents.
Average ? Perhaps. Inspirational ? At times yes.
the ghost of alby smedts
31 May 2003, 23:25
Originally posted by Isdogisgood
Its not hard to see why you want him dropped. Who do you think you are, you can't tell ppl not to compare players. Its just your opinion.
Who do you think you are you ask.
Im someone that has seen every single game Libba and Kretiuk played. One was an inspiration the other well you know what I think.
Believe me as a member of the bulldogs for 33 years I know an average player when I see one.
Bulldog1954
31 May 2003, 23:34
Kretiuk is not just ana average player
In 1993 Kritter was runner up in the Best and Fairest as a ruck rover wasn't he??? If not for injuries robbing him of his pace and agility he could have been a great mifielder. Then adapting his running style and then game so dramatically to become a tough defender who plays tall is an outstanding effort and really shows his outstanding commitment
Kretuik won't be dropped, nor should he, but it was one of the most undisciplined things I've seen in ages. On the boundary, almost at 50, was never going to be a goal, until Crusher gave them one.
He was running towards the bench before Jose got over the boundary line.
The worst bit, though, immediately afterwards Power (and then Hargrave) have to take Morrell and get outmarked (of course) for two more goals.
Crusher, today you owed us three!
footyman
1 Jun 2003, 01:21
Originally posted by jim440
it was one of the most undisciplined things I've seen in ages. On the boundary, almost at 50, was never going to be a goal, until Crusher gave them one.
And it was Leigh Harding, one of the worst kicks for goal in the AFL. From the boundary line 45m out, it was unlikely that he would've kicked a goal.
I was just reading an article on www.westernbulldogs.com.au :
Rohde expressed disappointment at a crucial 50-metre penalty given away by experienced defender Steven Kretiuk during the third quarter, which resulted in a Leigh Harding goal – the fourth of six straight majors the Roos kicked in that term.
“I was incredibly disappointed with that. Steven Kretiuk’s been around a long time. He knows better. A bloke was on the boundary line, you wouldn’t have expected him to kick a goal, and instead it was a sure goal.”
chels_09
1 Jun 2003, 02:18
I think Kretter was really stupid to do what he did, he made was to be hard shot at a goal a not to be missed shot at goal at a crucial point in the game. He is experienced enough to know not to and should set an example to the younger players. It was good to see Rohde Drag him after it though!!! About time a coach took a stance on those stupid plays.
Who could forget Kretiuk smashing Buckley in the midfield at Optus a few years ago...and Matthew Knights at Waverley. If his career was played as a ruck-rover, it might have made the difference for us in 97 & 98.
Thats not to say he hasn't done well in defence. Some of his scalps include Ablett, Lyon (apart from that final), Lloyd, & Carey.
And don't forget he knocked back a significant amount from Sydney at the end of 94 to stay with the Doggies...at something like 50% less pay.
Kretiuk has always given his all to the cause and the side always looks better when he is in it.
Captain Sensible
1 Jun 2003, 12:49
It was a stupid, undisiplined thing to do. Experienced players should know better than that. While it didnt cost us the game it cost us more than just the goal he gave away as his absence from the ground made it harder for us to cover Morrell.
We should think about dropping him.
the ghost of alby smedts
1 Jun 2003, 13:01
It not only cost us 3 goals it almost cost Local the hearing in his left ear. Such was my outburst after seeing this act of stupidity.
SonOfScray
1 Jun 2003, 13:08
At first i thought he was a tad stiff, thought it was just momentum. Saw the replay and was very dissapointed, needed more discipline from Crusher there. Deserved to be dragged, don't think it was severe enough to have him dropped though. The unfortunate situation is that even if we wanted to, we are undermanned enough as it is and would probably shy away from that option.
Captain Sensible
1 Jun 2003, 13:12
Originally posted by the ghost of alby smedts
It not only cost us 3 goals it almost cost Local the hearing in his left ear. Such was my outburst after seeing this act of stupidity.
Thats OK, my senses were numbed by that stage anyway.
Has your mum recovered from me yelling '****' at the top of my voice at her when Browny didnt get a free in the second?
Dog Town
1 Jun 2003, 13:16
Watch league teams on foxtel and see what John Barnes thinks of Kretiuk.He raves about him as being one of the best defenders he has played against.Look at the job he did on Richo before he got injured in round 2 against someone who was about 10cm taller,alot heavier,Probably 5-10 yards quicker and perhaps marginally fitter.He and Crofty are two of the smartest footballers in our side because they know how to posiktion themselves to cover there deficiencies.Taking that out of the team would be criminal and would also rob some of our young guys of a terrific example of how to play there opponents in the backline.
gridlocked
1 Jun 2003, 15:43
Yeah I agree, what Crusher did was wrong and he definetly deserved to be dragged. But I think that what he did does not warrant him getting dropped from the side and besides we need him out there.
Originally posted by gridlocked
Yeah I agree, what Crusher was wrong and he definetly deserved to be dragged. But I think that what he did does not warrant him getting dropped from the side and besides we need him out there.
Yes, we are not so flush with tough defenders that we can afford to drop the toughest for one mistake, even a bad one. Besides Harding took two more marks while Kretta was off the ground. Maybe leaving him on the ground would have given him a chance to try to atone.
However, he was punished, and no doubt had a pretty sleepless night last night. He's not likely to forget about it in a hurry.
We should leave it at that and move on.
Fossie 32
1 Jun 2003, 22:01
Originally posted by Curly5
Yes, we are not so flush with tough defenders that we can afford to drop the toughest for one mistake, even a bad one. Besides Harding took two more marks while Kretta was off the ground. Maybe leaving him on the ground would have given him a chance to try to atone.
However, he was punished, and no doubt had a pretty sleepless night last night. He's not likely to forget about it in a hurry.
We should leave it at that and move on.
I'm with ya there Curly. It was a bad mistake for sure [maybe it did cost us the game], but dropping him would be a huge over reaction. And "HACK"??? Talk about using words loosely - sheesh. Kritter can be proud of his career. Very proud.
Originally posted by Dog Town
He and Crofty are two of the smartest footballers in our side because they know how to position themselves to cover there deficiencies.
Agree that both have been great players for us and undoubtedly the backbone of the defence for many years. But both had shockers yesterday. Even ignoring the 50 (which was just plain stupid), Kretta was thrashed yesterday. And Crofty's constant turnovers were so costly they probably kept North close enough to be able to mount the comeback they did. Hopefully it's a once-off and they'll both bounce back. Or it may be that besides the physical injury evidence that their bodies are struggling with AFL football now, this may be the beginning of the form evidence that they really are approaching the end. It happens to everyone eventually.