View Full Version : You are the Coach, what would you do?
OldSchool
1 Jun 2003, 17:44
A bit of a hypothetical situation but you are the coach of the Bulldogs and are looking forward to season 2004 and Smorgo has given you the green light to make changes and has pointed out to you that there are a few positives to build upon for next season.
1/ Younger players are getting vital senior experience
2/ The captain and best player will be back next season
3/ The club now has the capacity to sign players outside of our current list due to the increase in salary cap that we are now allowed to spend.
4/ The first two picks of the draft are just about a sure thing
5/ Our sponsorship situation is now good
6/ Club memberships are at record levels
Do you consider trading one of the early picks ?
Realistically who do you target from other clubs ?
Who do you re-sign from our list of uncontracted players ?
Who do you delist from our list ?
Who do you offer as trade bait from our list ?
You are the coach and you have been given the green light to make changes, just detail you plans here.
Gnome Murphy
1 Jun 2003, 18:19
Resign
signed
Peter Rhode
For the rest of the year, I'd give Birss more of a midfield role & play Cross. Robert Murphy needs to be moved up the ground as does Sam Power. I'd keep Gia in run-with roles to work on the defensive side of his game. Ryan Hargrave to start playing taller...ie to pick up the Tarrants, Hirds etc.
Yes, I would consider trading one of the early picks...not the number 1 pick as we need to get the best KPP available. The number 2 pick should be traded if Chris Judd is willing to come to the Bulldogs or for a package of Daniel Bradshaw & Luke Power from Brisbane (possibly with Brisbane also throwing in a 3rd round pick).
Players to target from other clubs would be: Darren Jolly (Melb), Chris Lamb (Melb), Daniel Bradshaw (Bri), Scott Lucas (Ess), Trent Croad (Fre), Daniel Haines (Wce).
I would only be looking at trading early draft picks for the above and not players as the key selling point of having players re-sign are to show loyalty to their mates so can't be hypocritical and offload a player against their will.
I would not be looking to trade any our senior players...however if they want to go or ask for 'crazy money' then I'd swap Darcy to Collingwood for Josh Fraser (who will IMPROVE) and Alan Didak or to Essendon for Danny Jacobs & Jason Layc*ck & a 2nd round pick). Same scenario with Nathan Brown though I'd be tempted to ask Sydney for Barry Hall for him. Obviously Chris Judd could be part of the deals.
I'd make it an absolute priority to re-sign our younger blokes first with Bob Murphy being the key as he already seem to be seen as a 'leader' among the younger blokes.
Delistings at the end of the year probably depend on any KPP we pick up in trades or target in the Draft. At this stage I'd look at Wiggins, Bruton, Picken & Eagleton as certainties and one or two of Harrison, Dimmatina & Garlick depending on how many senior players we have left at the club. If Kretiuk and/or Croft call it a day then we may need to keep the above 3 players.
If things fall into place and a back-up ruckman comes along to the club, our young players develop and the number 1 pick makes an immediate impact (like a Polak, Riewoldt or Koschitzke) then only good times are ahead for the Western Bulldogs.
Dog Town
1 Jun 2003, 20:06
Originally posted by OldSchool
1.Do you consider trading one of the early picks ?
2.Realistically who do you target from other clubs ?
3.Who do you re-sign from our list of uncontracted players ?
4.Who do you delist from our list ?
5.Who do you offer as trade bait from our list ?
.
(1)Have to be a bloody good offer to trade an early pick especially if we only get 1.If we have two then you would make it our second pick and it would have to be in line with what has traditionally been the going rate (a quality tall or exceptional midfielder).
(2)If we are losing a top 2 pick then you have to target your most pressing need otherwise it defeats the purpose IMO.We really wouldnt know what calibre of players will be available until later in the season.Alot can happen between now and then.There are whispers that Josh Frasers in trouble at the pies and I reckon he and perhaps another sweetener would be worth a top 2 pick (even though hes extremely overated IMO).I really cant see any top echelon quality talls leaving there club at this stage.Would probably end up in a combination of players I reckon.
(3)You try and re-sign all of our key players unless they are needed in a trade.
(4)I reckon Brutons in trouble at this stage.Picken has to make room unfortunately and I suppose a guy like Wiggo could be if he doesnt show anything soon.I think one or two of the bottom tier senior players might be moved on purely few lack of room on the list.They cant really delist young guys who have been on the list for one or two seasons as they havent had time to show what they can do.A guy like Cross would be very unlucky to be delisted.I reckon Colbert would be unlucky aswell.
(5)Its almost getting to the stage where we have to bite the bullet and off load one of the young midfielders we love so much.Its hard because they are all great players but we need to balance out our list.If we cant work some thing out with our draft picks then I reckon that is the way we will go.
After talking to a few doggies supporters most agree we probably need a high quality tall, another solid tall (Chris Lamb at the dees would be a nice option to replace Crofty when age catches up with him) and a couple of hard bodied middle age players just to harden us up a little.They dont have to be stars just capable of providing a bit of physicality and have neat enough skills so that its not a liability.Remember Brad Scott and a couple of the other tougher players going around were picked up for basically nothing.They are out there just gotta find the right ones.We only need a couple of them to compliment Hahn,Robbins and the like.
OldSchool
1 Jun 2003, 22:37
Originally posted by Tank
Yes, I would consider trading one of the early picks...not the number 1 pick as we need to get the best KPP available. The number 2 pick should be traded if Chris Judd is willing to come to the Bulldogs or for a package of Daniel Bradshaw & Luke Power from Brisbane (possibly with Brisbane also throwing in a 3rd round pick).
Players to target from other clubs would be: Darren Jolly (Melb), Chris Lamb (Melb), Daniel Bradshaw (Bri), Scott Lucas (Ess), Trent Croad (Fre), Daniel Haines (Wce).
Some good thoughts there Tank.
What about Kent Kingsley from Geelong if the likes of Bradshaw was not available ?
Chris Lamb would be an interesting player because my understanding was that he was the preferred player for the Bulldogs and unfortunately went the pick before the Luke Penny selection. As a junior footballer he was outstanding but I think he
has a weakness when the ball hits the ground.
As for a backup ruck what about Mark Porter from the Roos ?
gridlocked
1 Jun 2003, 22:55
Do you consider trading one of the early picks ?
Realistically who do you target from other clubs ?
Who do you re-sign from our list of uncontracted players ?
Who do you delist from our list ?
Who do you offer as trade bait from our list ?
Like tank I would only trade one of our early draft picks if we were able to get 2 priority picks. The 2nd pick would be traded for a good, young and experienced KPP or maybe a player like Chris Judd.
Targets: Lucas, Jacobs, Lay****(Dons), Croad, Polak (Dockers), Bradshaw, Mcdonald (Lions), Lamb, Jolly (Dees), Judd (Eagles) and Thompson (Hawks).
I would prefer to resign all of our uncontracted players, but ultimately some will have to go and some will choose to go. My number one priority would be to resign Robert Murphy as he is our future and then on too the other blokes like Brown and Darcy.
Nobody likes to see anybody go, but at this stage I would delist Picken, Eagleton, Bruton and Boyd and if necessary maybe a player like Garlick.
Trade bait from our list would be Brown or Darcy if they choose to leave and one of our young midfielders e.g Mcmahon, Birss in an attempt to get a KPP.
A question no-one will like: Why not be proactive, and quietly see what we can get for Brown and Darcy?
I still reckon the club wasn't too smart with Penny.
Fossie 32
2 Jun 2003, 01:00
Originally posted by Dry Rot
A question no-one will like: Why not be proactive, and quietly see what we can get for Brown and Darcy?
I still reckon the club wasn't too smart with Penny.
I guess that's all part of the game these days but I can't get my head around trading our best players if they are willing to be loyal to the club. If they are under performing there is fair enough reason for it. But look at how we appreciated Granty's loyalty in not leaving. It should go both ways.
Originally posted by gridlocked
Trade bait from our list would be Brown or Darcy if they choose to leave and one of our young midfielders e.g Mcmahon, Birss in an attempt to get a KPP.
McMahon !!! I'd be rapt to have him at North. Here is a few North players that might fall out of favour come season end:
Premiership players : Shane Clayton & Shannon Motlop
Struggling to get a game : Shane Clayton, Shannon Motlop, Dylan Smith (early draft pick 2001) , David Bourke (alleged son of Francis) Mark Porter.
What's the story with Porter?
grinspoon
2 Jun 2003, 01:30
sorry but i doubt collingwood would swap fraser and didak, for "another" forward. i doubt theyd even swap them. there given them game time, ppl still dont know we are building, look at cole etc, next year we will blood another 3 or 4 new kids into the senior side. davidson, which is like a tarrant mould, nixon etc. id say you would only get an obree, molloy, holland, betherus etc type.
NorthBhoy
2 Jun 2003, 10:05
Originally posted by Dry Rot
What's the story with Porter?
Spider has the no.1 possie tied up, and Laidley sees Brown as a versatile option. Hale will get promoted this week in front of him.
He had the first 6 games when Spider was out, and although he busts his hump as much as any bloke on the list, he is an extremely underdeveloped footballer. He only averaged 1 mark a game.
He would be great for you blokes. His plus side is his psycho attack on the body, and we have won games on the back of him smashing into a ruckman for a half, and a fresh Spider dominating the bugger holding his ribs.
The Doctor
2 Jun 2003, 10:52
Originally posted by OldSchool
1/ Younger players are getting vital senior experience
2/ The captain and best player will be back next season
3/ The club now has the capacity to sign players outside of our current list due to the increase in salary cap that we are now allowed to spend.
4/ The first two picks of the draft are just about a sure thing
5/ Our sponsorship situation is now good
6/ Club memberships are at record levels
Do you consider trading one of the early picks ?
Realistically who do you target from other clubs ?
Who do you re-sign from our list of uncontracted players ?
Who do you delist from our list ?
Who do you offer as trade bait from our list ?
You are the coach and you have been given the green light to make changes, just detail you plans here.
My strategy would be to establish 3 distinct and consecutive phases within designated time periods in which to build our future platform.
Phase 1.
1. Between Now and the and the weekend off we redefine individual and team goals and make sure they are clearly understood. This relates to all the players and coaching staff.
THe briefings must be concise, very directional and not complicated.
That gives us about 2-3 weeks. What we need to do is
* Senior coach gathers all assistants, match day committee, football dept people and confirms with them what the teams' aims and objectives are and what individual goals by the players should be attained for the rest of the season. We anaylse carefully how we intend to develop our younger players. The coach makes it clear what is also expected of his assistants.
One team objective might be "To become the meanest, fiercest tackling side in the competition"
Another might be we have creat a positive and energetic vibe whenever we talk about our club to each other and to others outside the club.
* Senior coach then infomally meets each player to discuss where they are at, how they feel, what needs to be done to improve, identify weakness and strengths and what is realistically achieveable, and explains the team goals. This must not be done in a formal manner. It can be done over the next 2 weeks prior to the break at opportune times at training, on the road etc.
* Senior coach reports his individual discussions back to the asst coaches/ match day committee and draws up the confirmed team and individual goals. These are given to the players prior to weekend off.
* The senior players have a week off and told to forget about football, forget about the first 12 rounds and what has happened. Go relax and get ready for Phase 2.
Phase 2.
This starts from Round 13 til the end of the season. It is a period of 10 games. This becomes our New Seaon
In this part we implement as effectively as possible all we agreed to do in Phase 1. All players know what they have to do and the coaches must over see this. Senior coach will monitor closely how well players and coaches respond.
Some of the individual things we should have identified as areas to work on would be'
* Brian Harris develops his lead and mark techniques
* Giansircusa works on his field kicking and strength in tackles
* Harrison works on his physical approach
* Bowden works on his 2nd efforts
Some team strategies would/might be
* strategies at stop plays for the midfield
* Kick in strategies and defensive co-ordination
* Forward strategies relating to who leads, who crumbs, who goes where when we kick long, who blocks etc.
We keep working on all these aspects during 'The New Season' and fine tune them.
The young players at Werribee are now playing in positions that will prepare them properly for senior football. No more Harris playing at Full Back for the Bees only to play FF at seniors.
Phase 3
End of Season
Senior coach now assesses the season on whole and with paricular attention to how everyone responded to the challenges set out above.
He looks at who achieved their goals and improved and who didn't. Who stood up and showed leadership during this period and who rebelled or sooked about it. Who tried hard but didn't really cut it etc.
From there we can work out who we wish to keep and who should be moved on.
We now have a long chat to Scott Clayton. (we also stitch him up to a new 3 year deal as a priority).
Our recruiting will also be determined by ages of the senior players as we need to consider replacing them soon and by what youth is pushing up and of course by other obvious shortages on the list. We need to address any imbalances such as 'too many short receivers' not enough ruck support', more quality in KP's needed etc.
----------------------------------------------
Back in the real world!
At this stage it looks as though we are in poll position for 2 top picks as well as one at about 17 and 33. 4 picks in top 33 is a strong draft position to be in. I would prefer we keep them unless we get irresistable offers.
Brown and Darcy have to be the contractual priorities. They are 2 of the best players in the club. Simple as that.
My next line of priorities would be Murphy, Hahn and McMahon with equal weight. These 3 in my view represent the foundation of a powerful midfield to come.
From there we nail our stalwarts and good younger players like Croft, Birss, Gilbee etc. Having said that if any of Brown, Darcy, Murph etc hold off too long I would be getting tyhese guys signed up quickly to build some moentum and put pressure on them to sign up.
From there we can se what is left for new recruits and players on 'last chances'.
End of year: would drop or trade (if possible)
harro, picken, bruton, colbert, eagleton
Any of kritter, garlo, dimma would be hard choices to be avoided if possible, but maybe no chocie if we dont have space on the list or ca$h.
Play youngsters now for experience? of course, what other choice to we have? There is nobody else to play.
Would go for quality talls in the draft who are as close to ready to play as possible.
Would NOT trade away 1st or 2nd round picks for players older than 24, and then only for a quality KPP.
Would NOT trade away darce or brown if we can possibly avoid it.
Would definately trade 3rd rounders for mature BIG players... someone who could compliment darcy in the ruck and take strong marks when up forward.
Would continue to hammer a long kicking game into the team for the rest of the year.
Good write up doc, but i wouldnt call crofty a younger guy. Hopefully we sign just about all of the players that are our of contract.
Originally posted by OldSchool
Some good thoughts there Tank.
What about Kent Kingsley from Geelong if the likes of Bradshaw was not available ?
Chris Lamb would be an interesting player because my understanding was that he was the preferred player for the Bulldogs and unfortunately went the pick before the Luke Penny selection. As a junior footballer he was outstanding but I think he
has a weakness when the ball hits the ground.
As for a backup ruck what about Mark Porter from the Roos ?
I didn't know that fact about Chris Lamb beforehand...I was pretty happy with Luke Penny at that stage as he was being touted as a top 5 pick. Chris Lamb could definitely do a job for us.
Mark Porter would be excellent as a back-up to Darcy. North may be willing to trade as they have young Hale coming along well.
I'm not Kent Kingsley's biggest fan to be honest...would not want to give up too much for him if we did manage to snare him
OldSchool
2 Jun 2003, 19:32
Just a bit of a hypothetical
Delistings: Picken, Eagleton, Bruton, Colbert, Wiggins, Boyd
Retiring: Croft, Kretiuk
Players Traded: Brown, Alvey,
Signings: Darcy, Murphy, Guido, etc.
Brown asked for too much and was sent to Collingwood for the 10th pick and despite the clubs assurance to Alvey he was traded to Essendon for the 33rd selection.
Picks: 1, 2, 10, 18, 33, 34 etc
With the retirement of Croft and Kretiuk and the trading of Brown plus the increase in salary cap from 95 to 100%, the club with a significant financial capacity targets several players in an effort to address the clubs needs and to attract new membership and sponsorship: Smorgo states "it could be the last roll of the dice, lets take risks"
The Bulldogs play hardball with the Eagles and highlight to them that they could loose Judd for nothing so the deal goes through.
Judd to the Dogs for selection 2.
The interstate clubs are in no position to bargain, there will be no ex WA or SA players heading home in 2004 unless the clubs give something to get something.
Croad is also keen to come back to Victoria and the Bulldogs need KPP desperately so a deal is struck with the Dockers.
Croad and a second round selection to the Bulldogs for the 10th overall pick.
Our draft picks are now: 1, 18, 26, 33, 34 etc
In our last trade the Bulldogs acquire Kent Kingsley from the Cats for selection 26.
The new look Bulldogs now line up something like this in season 2004.
Backs: Robbins, Croad, Bassett
HBacks: Smith, Grant, Hargrave
Centres: Murphy, West, Judd
HForwards: McMahon, Bandy, Johnson
FForwards: Bowden, Kingsley, Faulkner
Rucks: Darcy, Hahn, Giansiracusa
Int: Harrison, McGuinness, Birss, Gilbee, Dimattina, Skipper, Harris, Power, Garlick
Bring this out in November OS!
Great hypothetical
I really can't see Judd going for less than the Headland deal, especially with West Coast being the trading bastards they are.
OldSchool
2 Jun 2003, 22:13
Originally posted by Porthos
I really can't see Judd going for less than the Headland deal, especially with West Coast being the trading bastards they are.
What do they have to bargin with ?
If Judd wants to come home how do they keep him ?
Freo was always able to tell the Victorian clubs that they could grab the uncontracted player during the trade period or most likely nab them in the second draft for nix. Of course the Vic clubs would take the first offer. This will not be the case this season and uncontracted Victorian players will be returning home if they really want to.
OldSchool
2 Jun 2003, 22:27
Originally posted by Dry Rot
A question no-one will like: Why not be proactive, and quietly see what we can get for Brown and Darcy?
I still reckon the club wasn't too smart with Penny.
If they do not look like re-signing or they are playing hardball then the club would look at the market no question. Of course we really want both to stay but...who knows.
As for Penny well he sat on the fence and trumped us at the last minute. Really the Saints could have got him for nothing so the return we got for him was OK.
The Doctor
2 Jun 2003, 22:51
Originally posted by OldSchool
Just a bit of a hypothetical
Delistings: Picken, Eagleton, Bruton, Colbert, Wiggins, Boyd
Retiring: Croft, Kretiuk
Players Traded: Brown, Alvey,
Signings: Darcy, Murphy, Guido, etc.
Brown asked for too much and was sent to Collingwood for the 10th pick and despite the clubs assurance to Alvey he was traded to Essendon for the 33rd selection.
Picks: 1, 2, 10, 18, 33, 34 etc
With the retirement of Croft and Kretiuk and the trading of Brown plus the increase in salary cap from 95 to 100%, the club with a significant financial capacity targets several players in an effort to address the clubs needs and to attract new membership and sponsorship: Smorgo states "it could be the last roll of the dice, lets take risks"
The Bulldogs play hardball with the Eagles and highlight to them that they could loose Judd for nothing so the deal goes through.
Judd to the Dogs for selection 2.
The interstate clubs are in no position to bargain, there will be no ex WA or SA players heading home in 2004 unless the clubs give something to get something.
Croad is also keen to come back to Victoria and the Bulldogs need KPP desperately so a deal is struck with the Dockers.
Croad and a second round selection to the Bulldogs for the 10th overall pick.
Our draft picks are now: 1, 18, 26, 33, 34 etc
In our last trade the Bulldogs acquire Kent Kingsley from the Cats for selection 26.
Brown for Croad and Kingsley? Because thats effectively what it is. No thanks.
Croad for our 2nd pick, no.18 I'd probably say yes.
I don't rate Kingsley very highly. He's a middle of the road type and we have enough of those. I'd only consider him with a late pick or low level trade, ie for Harrison. Think there is better value for pick 26.
Brown is worth far more than pick 10. What else can we get from them?
I'd be happy with the Judd deal.
Originally posted by OldSchool
What do they have to bargin with ?Your desire to pick him up.
When Fremantle know they will have the #1 preseason pick, then yeah, they can play cards like that. When you're one of, say, four Victorian sides that could have the #1 pick, how much are you willing to risk not getting him yourselves?
If Judd wants to come home how do they keep him ?I don't reckon Judd wants to come home so much that he'll make that kind of enemy. He has at no stage pulled a sook like Headland or White.
I also don't reckon the Dogs would be his clear first choice club to deal with in any case - with this lottery, a few other clubs can come to the table.
Seriously, Judd is the best performed player so far from what has been rated as the strongest draft ever. I reckon every Victorian side would be working to put together a better trade package than that - they can offer West Coast players that they need for now, rather than another chance to potentially screw up an early pick.
Dog Town
2 Jun 2003, 23:10
Originally posted by OldSchool
Some good thoughts there Tank.
What about Kent Kingsley from Geelong if the likes of Bradshaw was not available ?
Chris Lamb would be an interesting player because my understanding was that he was the preferred player for the Bulldogs and unfortunately went the pick before the Luke Penny selection. As a junior footballer he was outstanding but I think he
has a weakness when the ball hits the ground.
As for a backup ruck what about Mark Porter from the Roos ? Lambs no star but he provides a good option in the backline and is out of favour at the dees.He would be relatively cheap to IMO.I like the idea of Porter as he would add to the overall toughness of the side.As I said I believe its only a few players that would change the perception of our side being soft.You add 3 hard bodied players to Hahn,Robbo and all our youngsters being a year older and we look alot tougher.Would be worth a look at guys like Teague and Harris at north who are both tough as nails and struggle for regular game time.I realise they are not stars but they are the foot soldiers you need to be competitive with the top sides.We have to follow the examples of Brissy,Collingwood,Essendon,Adelaide and Port all who have topped there sides off nicely with quality players that they got for basically nothing eg: Pike,Clement,M.Johnson,Bode,B.Scott and more.There are heaps of players going around who could do the same job for us we just need to get them if the opportunity comes whether it be through a direct trade or in a larger trade with multiple clubs and players or just through the draft.
OldSchool
2 Jun 2003, 23:14
Originally posted by Porthos
Your desire to pick him up.
When Fremantle know they will have the #1 preseason pick, then yeah, they can play cards like that. When you're one of, say, four Victorian sides that could have the #1 pick, how much are you willing to risk not getting him yourselves?
[
The 2nd pick is a good offer all things considered and unless another Vic team mortgages the house then it potentially is a great offer. The threat of losing him for nothing means that the Eagles will have to compromise. I agree that it is not a forgone conclusion that he will come home to Vic but as I said at the start it is just a hypothetical. Adding players of the Judd and Croad ilk would be good for the club in a number of areas
OldSchool
2 Jun 2003, 23:33
Originally posted by Dog Town
Lambs no star but he provides a good option in the backline and is out of favour at the dees.He would be relatively cheap to IMO.I like the idea of Porter as he would add to the overall toughness of the side
I'm not against looking at a player like Chris Lamb but its not like there is a depth of tall defenders at the Dees which is holding him back. There must be a reason. Porter would compliment Darcy and Bandy nicely
Dog Town
2 Jun 2003, 23:44
Originally posted by OldSchool
I'm not against looking at a player like Chris Lamb but its not like there is a depth of tall defenders at the Dees which is holding him back. There must be a reason. Porter would compliment Darcy and Bandy nicely Danihers exact comments were "we want him to develop into more of a running defender" .He has proven he can be a solid tall backmen even if he doesn't have great attacking abilities.We wouldn't need him to develop into anything more than a Prestigiacomo type.He just gives us a nice solid option and hes still young.Ask any dees supporter and they will tell you he has copped a raw deal for years.
We dont need a FF, we have harris! We need a CHF!!!!!
Seriously, doesnt anyone rate harris? Just because he isnt a string bean, doesnt mean he isnt a kid with heaps to learn and huge scope for improvement.
at the moment, we have gone back to basics - its obvious he has been instructed to sit in the square and contest a long kick to there or hit the hotspot 30m out.
As we gain experience we can try a more sophisticated game plan involving him sometimes leading and so on. He could become a really top player. big, mean, strong, commited, athletic, knows where the goals are...
Originally posted by OldSchool
Just a bit of a hypothetical
Delistings: Picken, Eagleton, Bruton, Colbert, Wiggins, Boyd
Retiring: Croft, Kretiuk
Players Traded: Brown, Alvey,
Signings: Darcy, Murphy, Guido, etc.
Brown asked for too much and was sent to Collingwood for the 10th pick and despite the clubs assurance to Alvey he was traded to Essendon for the 33rd selection.
Picks: 1, 2, 10, 18, 33, 34 etc
With the retirement of Croft and Kretiuk and the trading of Brown plus the increase in salary cap from 95 to 100%, the club with a significant financial capacity targets several players in an effort to address the clubs needs and to attract new membership and sponsorship: Smorgo states "it could be the last roll of the dice, lets take risks"
The Bulldogs play hardball with the Eagles and highlight to them that they could loose Judd for nothing so the deal goes through.
Judd to the Dogs for selection 2.
The interstate clubs are in no position to bargain, there will be no ex WA or SA players heading home in 2004 unless the clubs give something to get something.
Croad is also keen to come back to Victoria and the Bulldogs need KPP desperately so a deal is struck with the Dockers.
Croad and a second round selection to the Bulldogs for the 10th overall pick.
Our draft picks are now: 1, 18, 26, 33, 34 etc
In our last trade the Bulldogs acquire Kent Kingsley from the Cats for selection 26.
The new look Bulldogs now line up something like this in season 2004.
Backs: Robbins, Croad, Bassett
HBacks: Smith, Grant, Hargrave
Centres: Murphy, West, Judd
HForwards: McMahon, Bandy, Johnson
FForwards: Bowden, Kingsley, Faulkner
Rucks: Darcy, Hahn, Giansiracusa
Int: Harrison, McGuinness, Birss, Gilbee, Dimattina, Skipper, Harris, Power, Garlick
Good Hypothetical OS, just one transaction I disagree with.
Kingsley is not worth pick 26. Geelong will be happy with 34 I think.
Originally posted by OldSchool
If they do not look like re-signing or they are playing hardball then the club would look at the market no question. Of course we really want both to stay but...who knows.
As for Penny well he sat on the fence and trumped us at the last minute. Really the Saints could have got him for nothing so the return we got for him was OK.
Yep Penny for Cam Faulkner. If the scribes are getting excited about Alan Murray and Andrew Krakouer then wait till they see Faulkner strutt his stuff.
OldSchool
3 Jun 2003, 19:10
Originally posted by SCRAY72
Good Hypothetical OS, just one transaction I disagree with.
Kingsley is not worth pick 26. Geelong will be happy with 34 I think.
Tend to agree but getting a player that can hold down the FF position really does straighten out the team
Dog Town
3 Jun 2003, 21:04
Just a couple of things
Stefoid I think most of us rate Harris even though he has a long way to go.I certainly think even when he is fully developed that he will need a different type of player around him to compliment him.Walsh looks the goods for this in the long term but short term I think we would need to target a different type to Harris.I think Harris has suprised most of us with his forward play and we are still trying to figure out exactly what his strengths and weaknesses are.Even last week he suprised me with a couple of strong leads which I had said the week before seemed to be a weakness of his.BT said the part of his game he needs to work most on is his kicking for goal.His ability at ground level and his athletic ability have absolutely stunned me to be honest.As to whether we need a chf as opposed to a ff I disagree in part.We are second in inside 50s for the league and where second last.I reckon we need more time to see how the forward line and our game plan changes in the next 12 weeks with guys like Harris,Bowden and Bandy combining before we can make a firm decision on what we need.
On Kent Kingsley I dont think Geelong will be to keen to part with him given they have similar problems to us.
More fantasy.
Judd wants to come home but not to the 'Dogs. Essendon want him but need cap room (I disagree with Porthos in that I think pick 2 will be about as good as they will get for Judd).
Brisbane have already stated they need to off-load someone this year.
Essendon trade Lucas and pick 10 for Alvey and pick 2 (Essendon have Fletcher, Wellman and Jacobs as their tall defenders, Hird, Lloyd and Bolton as forwards with Reynolds, Richards and Hunt developing).
Brisbane trade Power and Keating for picks 10 & 33.
Delistings (or if Essendon or Brisbane are interested - highly unlikely) - Picken, Wiggins, Bruton, Wiggins, Harrison, Wiggins, Eagleton, Wiggins.
Retirement - Kretiuk.
Left with picks 1, 18, 49, 65.
We become:
B: Robbins, Croft, Bandy
HB: Smith, Grant, Hargrave
C: Murphy, West, McMahon
HF: Bowden, Lucas, Johnson
F: Brown, Keating, Giansiracusa
R: Darcy, Hahn, L. Power
I: from
Midfielders - Garlick, Gilbee, S. Power, Faulkner, Dimattina, Cross, Birss.
Talls - Harris, Skipper, Walsh, Bassett, McGuiness
Originally posted by jim440
Delistings (or if Essendon or Brisbane are interested - highly unlikely) - Picken, Wiggins, Bruton, Wiggins, Harrison, Wiggins, Eagleton, Wiggins.
I have a feeling you want wiggo to go.:D :D :D :D
p0rt f@n
4 Jun 2003, 02:12
Judd for a second round draft pick? get real people.
OldSchool
4 Jun 2003, 06:23
Originally posted by jim440
More fantasy.
Judd wants to come home but not to the 'Dogs. Essendon want him but need cap room (I disagree with Porthos in that I think pick 2 will be about as good as they will get for Judd).
Brisbane have already stated they need to off-load someone this year.
Essendon trade Lucas and pick 10 for Alvey and pick 2 (Essendon have Fletcher, Wellman and Jacobs as their tall defenders, Hird, Lloyd and Bolton as forwards with Reynolds, Richards and Hunt developing).
Brisbane trade Power and Keating for picks 10 & 33.
Delistings (or if Essendon or Brisbane are interested - highly unlikely) - Picken, Wiggins, Bruton, Wiggins, Harrison, Wiggins, Eagleton, Wiggins.
Retirement - Kretiuk.
Left with picks 1, 18, 49, 65.
We become:
B: Robbins, Croft, Bandy
HB: Smith, Grant, Hargrave
C: Murphy, West, McMahon
HF: Bowden, Lucas, Johnson
F: Brown, Keating, Giansiracusa
R: Darcy, Hahn, L. Power
I: from
Midfielders - Garlick, Gilbee, S. Power, Faulkner, Dimattina, Cross, Birss.
Talls - Harris, Skipper, Walsh, Bassett, McGuiness
Good hypothetical Jim
OldSchool
4 Jun 2003, 06:25
Originally posted by p0rt f@n
Judd for a second round draft pick? get real people.
The second overall pick of the draft not a second round pick.
The Doctor
4 Jun 2003, 11:50
A worst case scenario! Brown, Darcy and Giansiracusa all decide to go.
Delisted are; Eagle, Picken, Bruton and Wiggins, Harrison, Kretiuk (ret), Colbert, Dimma, Garlick
Bulldogs finish with picks 1,2,17,32,48
Brown goes to Hawthorn (who finish 2nd last) for picks 3,18 and 34
Darcy + 3rd round pick (48) goes to Collingwood (who finish 8th) for pick 10, Mark McGough and Jarrod Molloy
Giansiracusa goes to Melbourne (12th) for Chris Lamb and pick 36
Bulldogs trade pick 1 to Brisbane for Beau McDonald and Luke Power
Bulldogs trade pick 2,17 & 32 to WCE for Judd and Andrew McDougall
Bulldogs trade pick 10 to Freo for Croad
Summary
Out, Brown, Darcy, Giansiracusa. Eagle, Picken, Bruton and Wiggins, Harrison, Kretiuk (ret), Colbert, Dimma, Garlick
In, McGough, Molloy, Lamb, McDonald, Power, Croad, Judd, McDougall
Draft selections, 3, 18, 34, 36
Bulldogs in 2004
B:Hargrave, Croft, Robbins
HB: Smith, Grant, Croad
C: McMahon, Murphy, Judd
HF: Johnson, Bandy, Bowden
F: L.Power, Molloy, Faulkner
R: McDonald, Hahn, West
Int: Harris, Gilbee, Birss, S.Power, McGuinness, Cross, McGough, Lamb, McDougall, Bassett, Walsh, Minson, Alvey, Skipper, B.Murphy, Wight
My brain hurts after reading that Doc but it does make for some interesting reading. Just shows if you draft and trade smart losses to key players can be overcome and soon forgotten when you start winning.
Couple of questions.
Who is Andrew McDougall?
Why Mark McGough?
Bulldogs trade pick 2,17 & 32 to WCE for Judd and Andrew McDougall
yes :rolleyes:
well give you judd and mcdougal for pics 1, 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, 17 32 brown, murphy, guido and bownden :rolleyes:
you wont get judd for less than pick 1 plus a good player ie guido, murphy
theres always a club with pick 3-5 plus a very good player and a 2nd round draft pick just around the corner
you wont get mcdougall for less than pick 2 and another pick, mcdougal is rated as one of the best youngsters at the club, and will end up being a top 2-3 player at the club for may years, the only thing thats held him back is injuries, weve spent 3 years developing him, from pick 5 (which we were very happy to get him at), and now you would like us to give him up for pics 17 and 32? riiiiight.......
The Doctor
4 Jun 2003, 13:01
Originally posted by ah_19
yes :rolleyes:
well give you judd and mcdougal for pics 1, 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, 17 32 brown, murphy, guido and bownden :rolleyes:
you wont get judd for less than pick 1 plus a good player ie guido, murphy
theres always a club with pick 3-5 plus a very good player and a 2nd round draft pick just around the corner
you wont get mcdougall for less than pick 2 and another pick, mcdougal is rated as one of the best youngsters at the club, and will end up being a top 2-3 player at the club for may years, the only thing thats held him back is injuries, weve spent 3 years developing him, from pick 5 (which we were very happy to get him at), and now you would like us to give him up for pics 17 and 32? riiiiight.......
The unproven McDougall for pick 2 + something you are kidding. Why isn't he playing? WCE have a lot of talls and maybe he could get a game elsewhere? I could argue we spent the same time an effort on Wiggins who was an All Australian U/18 key forward. Doesn't make him more valuable. It's what their value is now that matters not what you got him for. Also many people might argue that Murphy is as good or even more valuable than Judd. If Judd decides he wants to go, as others in this thread have sent, you might have to take what you can get as it is likely Vic clubs will have all the early pre season picks. In any case it's a hypothetical.
The Doctor
4 Jun 2003, 13:04
Originally posted by SCRAY72
My brain hurts after reading that Doc but it does make for some interesting reading. Just shows if you draft and trade smart losses to key players can be overcome and soon forgotten when you start winning.
Couple of questions.
Who is Andrew McDougall?
Why Mark McGough?
just trying to be realistic about what trades we could roughly expect. of course it's all hypothetical but it's a bit of fun to help pass this sad season away!
McDougall, as our WCE friend, has stated is another developing tall forward/ruck. about 196cm.
McGough being the strong bodied midfielder we could use. I would prefer Didak.
Originally posted by ah_19
yes :rolleyes:
well give you judd and mcdougal for pics 1, 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10, 17 32 brown, murphy, guido and bownden :rolleyes:
you wont get judd for less than pick 1 plus a good player ie guido, murphy
theres always a club with pick 3-5 plus a very good player and a 2nd round draft pick just around the corner
you wont get mcdougall for less than pick 2 and another pick, mcdougal is rated as one of the best youngsters at the club, and will end up being a top 2-3 player at the club for may years, the only thing thats held him back is injuries, weve spent 3 years developing him, from pick 5 (which we were very happy to get him at), and now you would like us to give him up for pics 17 and 32? riiiiight.......
Relax
As Doc said we are just passing the time while our season goes from bad to worse. Just a hypothetical. Judd's value will be reviewed at the end of the year when he is out of contract AND if he requests to be traded to a Victorian club.
Originally posted by The Doctor
Delisted are: Dimma, Garlick
:rolleyes:
Here we go again...
Not going to haaaaappen.
The Doctor
4 Jun 2003, 13:35
Originally posted by Curly5
:rolleyes:
Here we go again...
Not going to haaaaappen.
yep you are right.
I hope we can retain guido. He is showing some real form at the moment.
Dog Town
4 Jun 2003, 20:10
Originally posted by stefoid
I hope we can retain guido. He is showing some real form at the moment. Much,much better last week with fewer disposal errors.BTW he is coming second in our overall tackles for those who wern't aware.