View Full Version : Draft Concessions
Enjoyed reading your thoughts this morning especially the thread about what to do started by Old School and replies by Tank,Dogtown and Gridlocked.
Here's another along those lines.
It is painfully obvious we are not going to win many games this year. The last half an hour against the Crows and Roos have proved that and we have tougher games ahead.
How can we return to the finals in 2004?
Do we give up pick 2 (concession for winning under 5 games) for a homesick Chris Judd?
Do we pick the best 2 195cm +, 18 year olds in the draft and fast track them. This theory about tall guys taking longer to develop is overrated. Chris Grant,Gaspar,Leppitsch,Jason Cloke,Riewoldt,GehrigTarrant,White,Gardiner,Primus all played senior footy in their first year. If you are good enough you can play.
If we are going to trade aggressively who of value can we afford to let go remembering teams willing to offload their excess KP players will want something in return. McMahon?,Power?,Guido?
Personally don't care about winning any more,just hope we steal a couple in the run home and win 5 games or less and hope there are a couple of KP players for us in the draft.
The Doctor
2 Jun 2003, 11:33
I agree we need more KP strength but we don't have to be silly about it either as there are other needs we have to address. We already have a huge bunch of developing talls. These are Skipper, Walsh, Minson, K-Mac, Wight, Bowden, Bruton, Wiggins. So we already have quite a few. Remember if we pick up another they will simply be added to that list and can't be expected to make a significant impact straight away.
Aside from KP players we also need a
* A tap ruckman
* strong and robust midfielder or two
* One or two tough half backs
So if we get 2 top picks I would take the best the KP player and the next best player available regardless of size. At the top end of the draft you take the quality however it comes.
I doubt we will fail to win at least 5 games, unless our morale drops away. If it did, that would be a disaster.
Originally posted by The Doctor
I agree we need more KP strength but we don't have to be silly about it either as there are other needs we have to address. We already have a huge bunch of developing talls. These are Skipper, Walsh, Minson, K-Mac, Wight, Bowden, Bruton, Wiggins. So we already have quite a few. Remember if we pick up another they will simply be added to that list and can't be expected to make a significant impact straight away.
Aside from KP players we also need a
* A tap ruckman
* strong and robust midfielder or two
* One or two tough half backs
So if we get 2 top picks I would take the best the KP player and the next best player available regardless of size. At the top end of the draft you take the quality however it comes.
Wiggins and Bruton are struggling to make an impact and are no guarantee that they will have long term careers.
Bowden plays like a flanker.
Kretiuk and Croft are in the twilight.
Grant will be 31 next year
I don't agree we are flush with talls but I do agree we need a tap ruckman and strong midfielders.
Question for you Doc, what if the best two players in the draft by far were 185cm.?
Originally posted by stefoid
I doubt we will fail to win at least 5 games, unless our morale drops away. If it did, that would be a disaster.
Have a look at the draw and try and select 4 more wins.
Believe me you will find it tough.
We play teams that are better than us or we play out of form teams that we don't match up well against.
Don't like being too pessimistic but morale has already dropped away.
The Doctor
2 Jun 2003, 12:43
Originally posted by SCRAY72
Question for you Doc, what if the best two players in the draft by far were 185cm.?
My earlier post suggested take the best KP and the next best player. So that is what I would do.
However if the 2 best players were 185cm and were clearly superior to the rest I would take them. Because!! Our Recruiting Manager would have identified this a while back and we would have traded for a KP.
If it's a fairly even field then take the best KP. Lions did this last year with Brennan and will be duly rewarded.
Originally posted by The Doctor
My earlier post suggested take the best KP and the next best player. So that is what I would do.
However if the 2 best players were 185cm and were clearly superior to the rest I would take them. Because!! Our Recruiting Manager would have identified this a while back and we would have traded for a KP.
If it's a fairly even field then take the best KP. Lions did this last year with Brennan and will be duly rewarded.
How tall is Raphael Clarke? Is he about 193cm?
The Doctor
2 Jun 2003, 12:57
Originally posted by SCRAY72
How tall is Raphael Clarke? Is he about 193cm?
about 187cm. he is not the answer to our KP situation. good player that he is he would be more a floating forward. it will be interesting to see how much he has developed since last year at the forthcoming nationals.
Assuming we finish bottom and get picks 1,2,16 and 33 do we use pick 33 for Dean Whitten. I haven't heard rave reviews about the guy and I feel sorry for him because the expectations are huge because of his surname. Is he good enough for the club to use pick 33 on him?
I don't see his name in the best players often enough. Maybe someone can give us an update and tell us if there is room for improvement. Do we pick him because he is a Whitten for him to languish in the VFL?
OldSchool
2 Jun 2003, 18:31
Originally posted by SCRAY72
How tall is Raphael Clarke? Is he about 193cm?
Saw him the other week and I think he is about 189cm in the Brendon Goddard mould still growing. Good mover with nice skills.
Very attacking but occasionally his decision making highlights a minor flaw in his game. A little to keen to attack at times
Originally posted by SCRAY72
Have a look at the draw and try and select 4 more wins.
Believe me you will find it tough.
We play teams that are better than us or we play out of form teams that we don't match up well against.
Don't like being too pessimistic but morale has already dropped away.
Come on, we are improving! Our midfield is one of the best going around, and our forward line and midfield are starting to trust each other.
Our midfield has liscense to bomb the ball deep under pressure, which really helps out dimma and hahn.
If we can get Harris, Bandy, Brown and Bowden up and running in the same forward line, we will start beating teams.
If we manage to play 4 quarters to our potential, we can beat anyone on any given day. I believe that. It doesnt matter WHO we are playing, its HOW we are playing that counts.
Think of Freo as ground zero. The big bomb. That game and eveything before it was the old doggies playing under the ghost of terry wallace. Rhodes real coaching career started against carlton in my opinion, so now he has a 0-3 record, but we have played some great footy at times. Once we break through, the floodgates will open!
rah rah rah!
It might be worth remembering (although you probably do) that if you do get the first two picks, plenty of clubs will still be happy to do trades that merely downgrade one of those picks.
ie. pick 2 & 33 for pick 12 & 43 and a pretty good player.
This would solve your problem if there's no KPPs in the top 5 that you'd want, but some worthwhile options in the first round.
I doubt there'll be any problems finding a decent KPP early on though.
GOALden Hawk
2 Jun 2003, 22:02
Agree with Old School's assessment - Clarke has come right on since the Nationals last year. The other players seemed to really look up to him and expect him to show the way so to speak.
He is the complete package. Most of his mistakes are due to enthusiasm more than anything else. I've got him Top 5 at this stage, and quite possibly number 1.
Dean Whitten is just a player. If it wasn't for his name I probably wouldn't have even remembered seeing him playing to tell you the truth. Wasn't in the squad of 51 for Vic Metro either. Perhaps a rookie list spot?
But an early 2nd round pick would be too much I think.
BTW - any of you guys going to the Challenge Cup games on Friday and/or Monday?
OldSchool
2 Jun 2003, 23:03
Originally posted by GOALden Hawk
Dean Whitten is just a player. If it wasn't for his name I probably wouldn't have even remembered seeing him playing to tell you the truth. Wasn't in the squad of 51 for Vic Metro either. Perhaps a rookie list spot?
But an early 2nd round pick would be too much I think.
BTW - any of you guys going to the Challenge Cup games on Friday and/or Monday?
The problem for the Dogs with Whitten is that our third round pick will be an early one so I don't see them taking under the father/son rule. I agree that at the very least the would try and get him as a rookie. I think he is a better player than he is given credit for but he needs a lot of time to build himself up
OldSchool
3 Jun 2003, 23:19
Originally posted by GOALden Hawk
Agree with Old School's assessment - Clarke has come right on since the Nationals last year. The other players seemed to really look up to him and expect him to show the way so to speak.
He is the complete package. Most of his mistakes are due to enthusiasm more than anything else. I've got him Top 5 at this stage, and quite possibly number 1.
BTW - any of you guys going to the Challenge Cup games on Friday and/or Monday?
Nice article on Clarke today.
evertonfc
4 Jun 2003, 12:34
Jordan McMahon for Nick Stevens.
Jordy is emerging as a potential star of the future, while Stevens is already there. Stevens is out of contract and the Dogs could hold the trump card by saying "take this or we'll grab him for nothing in the pre-season."
Jordy's an SA boy, and although I'm a big fan, it would be good to bring a Vic boy home. Definitely a potential successor to Scott West.
Originally posted by evertonfc
Jordan McMahon for Nick Stevens.
Jordy is emerging as a potential star of the future, while Stevens is already there. Stevens is out of contract and the Dogs could hold the trump card by saying "take this or we'll grab him for nothing in the pre-season."
Jordy's an SA boy, and although I'm a big fan, it would be good to bring a Vic boy home. Definitely a potential successor to Scott West.
Although Jordon has many admirers amongst Doggies fans, this would be a fair trade but Port would also ask for a pick.
Anja_Nees
4 Jun 2003, 22:10
Originally posted by OldSchool
The problem for the Dogs with Whitten is that our third round pick will be an early one so I don't see them taking under the father/son rule. I agree that at the very least the would try and get him as a rookie. I think he is a better player than he is given credit for but he needs a lot of time to build himself up
I agree that it may sound silly drafting a player just because of his name, but we are going to have a lot of early picks this year (possibly 2 early first rounders) and we also have a number of quality youngsters coming through (Faulkner and Walsh in particular, but also guys like Mcguiness). With the extra publicity the club could receive through having a third generation of the Whitten family playing, it may be worth at least considering taking him with the 3rd round pick.
Frankly, Scott Clayton could pick a Rising Star nominee out of Broady Tech 4th 18 and he would still be able to do some good with one less third rounder.
It's just a thought, but it would look bad if another club were seen to be willing to take a punt on him when we weren't.
Originally posted by SCRAY72
Although Jordon has many admirers amongst Doggies fans, this would be a fair trade but Port would also ask for a pick. You have got to be joking. For a comparable trade, I guess you'll be interesting in trading Nathan Brown in a straight swap for Brent Guerra and a pick then.
For Port to agree to that, Nick would have to hate being in Adelaide, really want the Bulldogs, and be prepared for negative feedback for the rest of his career. None of these are the case - even Collingwood would make a better offer.
I dont see the point in trading any of our good young midfielders for another midfielder. Jordie could be a very damaging player for us with a few more kilos and 20 more games under his belt.
chels_09
5 Jun 2003, 17:47
I dont know about anyone else, but me personally, would like to see Jordy stay at the bulldogs! We dont have many players with his pace, and skill when he is running full speed! But thats just my opinion!
And can someone please explain to me the draft concessions!
Originally posted by chels_09
I dont know about anyone else, but me personally, would like to see Jordy stay at the bulldogs! We dont have many players with his pace, and skill when he is running full speed! But thats just my opinion!
And can someone please explain to me the draft concessions!
A free pick for winning 5 games or less. Actually it might be 5 and half. Anyway we are long way from there as we are still looking for win number 2