Should Geelong trade to get a key forward?

[Malarkey05]

Is it time that Geelong look to trade high draft picks (assuming we get them) to get an established key forward player for next season from another club?
Our backs and on-ballers seem to be developing nicely but our forwards cannot kick a winning score. Kent Kingsley is solid but should not be our number 1 foward. It's time to vary our youth policy and go after an established player. Any players out there that we may be able to pick up?

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by Malarkey05
Is it time that Geelong look to trade high draft picks (assuming we get them) to get an established key forward player for next season from another club?
Our backs and on-ballers seem to be developing nicely but our forwards cannot kick a winning score. Kent Kingsley is solid but should not be our number 1 foward. It's time to vary our youth policy and go after an established player. Any players out there that we may be able to pick up?

There's always 2 ways clubs can go when they have high draft picks. They can either trade them away for a ready made player like Fremantle did to get Croad and Headland, or take a chance on the young talent available in the draft. I guess it will depend on who is available in the draft as to whether Geelong trade or not. We should draft Mark Blake under the father-son rule... a tall ruckman/forward currently playing in the Geelong Falcons, however if there's another Nick Riewoldt type player available in the draft, we'd be mad to trade away that pick.

[Malarkey05]

Originally posted by ScouseCat
We should draft Mark Blake under the father-son rule... a tall ruckman/forward currently playing in the Geelong Falcons, however if there's another Nick Riewoldt type player available in the draft, we'd be mad to trade away that pick.

Draft picks will take time to mature into strong key forward players and great sides (like Brisbane) typically have 2-3 of these players in their forward line. Kent Kingsley would work pretty well on a half-foward flank on the 3rd defender if we had a strong marking forward in the goalsquare. It would take years for a draft pick to develop into that sort of player.

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by Malarkey05
Draft picks will take time to mature into strong key forward players and great sides (like Brisbane) typically have 2-3 of these players in their forward line. Kent Kingsley would work pretty well on a half-foward flank on the 3rd defender if we had a strong marking forward in the goalsquare. It would take years for a draft pick to develop into that sort of player.

Short term gain = long term pain in my opinion.

Unless there's a player available who is a ready made superstar, I am happy for us to draft a talented youngster and develop him via our VFL side. It depends on who's available in the draft though, if the right trade is there, we should at least consider it.

[Malarkey05]

Originally posted by ScouseCat
Short term gain = long term pain in my opinion.


Normally I'd agree, but in this case we have the long term in this area covered by the likes of Mark Blake coming though father-son and maybe Nathan Ablett the year after.
And if the short term gain means we could become a top 4 side, which I believe is possible if we solved the forward line problems, then isn't that what it's all about?
Granted, the right player would have to be available (dare I say it Trent Croad??) but it seems to me that the Geelong mindset is to pursue draft picks at the expense of possibly picking up a ready made player no matter who is available. I just think that it's time to adjust the policy for the next draft. With salary cap pressure at other clubs I'd say there is a good chance that there may be (quality) players available.

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Malarkey05
Is it time that Geelong look to trade high draft picks (assuming we get them) to get an established key forward player for next season from another club?

We've tried that for the past 6-7 years with no success.

Lately we've traded for guys like Spinks, Gumby, Kingsley, J Mooney and White. All have failed.

It's time to look to develop our own forwards, guys like Tom Lonergan.

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by Malarkey05
Granted, the right player would have to be available (dare I say it Trent Croad??) but it seems to me that the Geelong mindset is to pursue draft picks at the expense of possibly picking up a ready made player no matter who is available. I just think that it's time to adjust the policy for the next draft. With salary cap pressure at other clubs I'd say there is a good chance that there may be (quality) players available.

If there is a high quality player available, then yes we should consider a trade, otherwise we're better off developing our own forwards.

[Malarkey05]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Lately we've traded for guys like Spinks, Gumby, Kingsley, J Mooney and White. All have failed.


The difference here is that this time around we may have something better to trade with (2nd or 3rd draft pick) and the overall structure of the team is better in the midfield and backline.

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by Malarkey05
The difference here is that this time around we may have something better to trade with (2nd or 3rd draft pick) and the overall structure of the team is better in the midfield and backline.

As I've said before, unless the player is a ready made superstar, I wouldn't bother trading our top draft picks... we don't want another Brett Spinks!! :o

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Malarkey05
The difference here is that this time around we may have something better to trade with (2nd or 3rd draft pick)

We gave up a LOT to get guys like Jason Mooney, Gumby Mooney, Brett Spinks and Mitchell White.

In fact, i'd say we gave up more then we would if we were to give up pick 2 or 3 this year.

[tragicforces]

wouldn't like to think that Thompson would trade our top draft pick for anything less than a N.Brown, C.Tarrant or D.Cupido

otherwise Raphael Clarke sounds like an exciting prospect.

[Mattster]

i hope we don't trade our top pick for a nathan brown/cupido. They aren't key forwards.

It depends on how quickly and for how long our midfield will be great. There's no point in having a great midfield and weak forward line. But at the same time theres no point in waiting 4 years for some forwards to develop, by which time our midfield might not be great. Seeing how our midfield is very young, trading for a young key forward (Ie. Jon Brown), or drafting a Reiwoldt-type teenager is the way to go.

[catattack]

It's all good and well to have a big full-forward, but until you have a forward structure that actually works and supports the forwards, then a big full-forward might be wasted.

Of course it would be good to have a key forward to base the structure around, but you have to have working structure to actually get the ball to them.

[Malarkey05]

Originally posted by catattack
It's all good and well to have a big full-forward, but until you have a forward structure that actually works and supports the forwards, then a big full-forward might be wasted.


I think we are close to having that structure now. The games I have seen this year we have more than matched our opposition (except for Brisbane) in the mid-field and at the take-aways. We are also often matching the opposition in "inside 50's" but not putting a winning score on the board.
It does take a number of years to develop good key forwards and by that time we may have dropped off in the other areas and then the big full-forward will be wasted.

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by Malarkey05
It does take a number of years to develop good key forwards and by that time we may have dropped off in the other areas and then the big full-forward will be wasted.

We need a key forward who can command the ball kicked to them. Gary Ablett commanded the ball and we kicked it to him, even Brownless to a lesser extent was able to command the ball. At the moment, we don't have a forward who our midfield can kick the ball to on a regular basis with any real confidence.

[Seb]

Originally posted by tragicforces
wouldn't like to think that Thompson would trade our top draft pick for anything less than a N.Brown, C.Tarrant or D.Cupido

otherwise Raphael Clarke sounds like an exciting prospect.

Why the hell would Geelong want another small midfielder/forward type in Cupido?

[JUBJUB]

Originally posted by Shaitan
Why the hell would Geelong want another small midfielder/forward type in Cupido?

He's not a consistent player.He's probably had 3 good games this year.

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by JUBJUB
He's not a consistent player.He's probably had 3 good games this year.

Three more then any of our potential crumbers prior to Aaron Lord coming in.

[JUBJUB]

I'd pick Lord before Cupido.

[Fall Out Boy]

I'm one of Aaron's biggest fans (as you well know), but i'd take Cupido every single time.

As for saying Cupido is inconsistent. The kid has kicked a goal in EVERY game he's played for Essendon. A pretty fair effort, i'd say.

[ScouseCat]

Our problems up forward this year have been well documented, but I was looking through the stats in the footy record last night, and I noticed that we don't seem to get enough goals from our midfield players.

Ling kicked his first goal this season yesterday, Corey averages about 1 every 2 games, Ablett, Riccardi and Chapman average around 1 per game, Enright has a couple of goals, Kelly and Rooke have a couple.... not enough in my opinion.

It's probably a learning curve for these players, but until they start backing themselves and running forward to kick goals, we'll struggle to kick big scores.

[Mattster]

Originally posted by JUBJUB
I'd pick Lord before Cupido.

if we could trade Lord for Cupido, i'd take it.

I'm surprised that that was Lings first goal of the season. For the amount of ball he gets, he should have more goals

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by Mattster
I'm surprised that that was Lings first goal of the season. For the amount of ball he gets, he should have more goals

I was surprised as well, but that is exactly my point about us not getting enough goals from the guys in the midfield. I think Cameron Ling has kicked a few points before yesterday, but you're right, he should be kicking more goals for us.

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Mattster

I'm surprised that that was Lings first goal of the season. For the amount of ball he gets, he should have more goals

Bit hard to kick goals when you're constantly on the defensive side of the ball.

Cam does the in and under work to allow the likes of Ablett and Chapman the opportunities down the field.

Obviously we'd love him to kick more goals, but given his role, it shouldn't be expected.

[BigCat1]

These are the type of fowards we need. We need to go all out to get one of these players. The first six are probably unattainable but they are the quality we need. There is no harm in trying to buy them with our first draft pick (pick 2, 3 or 4)and a current midfielder

Tarrant, Tredrea, Lloyd, Neitz, Reiwoldt, Richardson

Other than that I think we should trade for a key forward as long as we don't trade away our first pick which will be either 2, 3 or 4. Our third round pick will be used on Blake so that leaves our second round pick of say 19-21 to be traded along with a current player or two. These are the second tier of marking forwards

Jonathon Brown
Nathan Brown
Nathan Thompson
Whitnall
Kositchki
Croad
Lucas

What do you guys think about the worth of these players or maybe some others? Note we may also have first crack at an uncontracted player. Bulldogs have no room to move along with the Demons, Carlton, and the Saints. Might be able to pick up another of these players?

[Mattster]

Originally posted by BigCat1

Jonathon Brown
Nathan Brown
Nathan Thompson
Whitnall
Kositchki
Croad
Lucas


J. Brown - Would brisbane really give him away? Only plus i suppose was he did play Juniors in Geelong didn't he?

N.Brown - Too small. Not a key position player

N.Thompson - Inconsistent. Can kick 4 goals a game sometimes.

Whitnall - Too fat :) But he can take a mark and kick a goal.

Koschitzke - Already has had injury problems, but still young. I would definitely consider him in a trade.

Croad - Not a key forward

Lucas - There was talk about us getting him a while ago. But he's now a few years older and i don't see him being what we need.

[Malarkey05]

Originally posted by Mattster
Lucas - There was talk about us getting him a while ago. But he's now a few years older and i don't see him being what we need.

Lucus turns 26 at the end of the year, so there is still a few good years left in him. I think Lucus and Jon Brown would be the only two you would consider (maybe Croad if he was cheap). I don't see us getting anyone on the first choice list

[ScouseCat]

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Bit hard to kick goals when you're constantly on the defensive side of the ball.

And when the umpire pays a ridiculous decision against Kingsley in the goalsquare for an illegal sheppard... something we see every single week!!