Atkinson

[Jonesy1987]

I have been indecisive when thinking about Atkinson's long term prospects, but today when he backed back in front of a Kozi lead, he won me as a fan. He knew what was coming as he looked behind first. From where I was standing I could see the look in his eyes when he realized it was Kozi coming (and fast), yet he swallowed hard and still went in, allowing Fletcher to mop up.

From that moment on I knew it would be our day.

Just thought he deserved some recognition for one of the bravest acts from a dons player in recent memory.

I also loved his goal, great to see someone back their pace and make it certainty by running to the goal line. :thumbsu:

[EssendonPride]

Completely agree.

Has struck me as pretty unfairly maligned, but has been playing good football so far this year.

Borderline 22 maybe, but absolutely love the way he goes about it. Suits the game play, and his disposal so far this year has been great.

On another note, he seems to be loved by the commentators too, noticed in the last few matches they've been getting pretty excited.

[adii_7]

ahhh the forum finally agrees with me.

atkinson is a gun :)

[The Donners]

I have been indecisive when thinking about Atkinson's long term prospects, but today when he backed back in front of a Kozi lead, he won me as a fan. He knew what was coming as he looked behind first. From where I was standing I could see the look in his eyes when he realized it was Kozi coming (and fast), yet he swallowed hard and still went in, allowing Fletcher to mop up.

From that moment on I knew it would be our day.

Just thought he deserved some recognition for one of the bravest acts from a dons player in recent memory.

I also loved his goal, great to see someone back their pace and make it certainty by running to the goal line. :thumbsu:

Prismall also did something similar to this in the last IIRC.

[stander]

ahhh the forum finally agrees with me.

atkinson is a gun :)

As I have said, he's a goer, but some of the astute judges:) on this board call him a local footballer. A bit unfair I think.

[bacon buster]

one of the knocks on him has been his kicking, but i thought his disposal was pretty nice last night.

[Longy413]

Great to see him go back, you could see it took him out of his comfort zone and made him think. Ducked the head a little (and I can't blame him) but he went anyway.

He's not a gun and he's not in our best side.
We have to move on three players as a minimum and given he's 25 and hasn't yet cemented a spot (he might do before the end of the season), he's pushing it to keep a spot on the list.

NLM, Slattery, Pears, Reimers, Welsh, Lonergan are better footballers than him.

He can consider himself very luck to have received a game ahead of Tyson Slattery, who has been much better than Atkinson at VFL level and Silverlock is showing himself to be every chance to get promoted after Round 12.

Great to see him do well with his chances and I hope he keeps it up. He's one player player, more than most that can't afford a bad game.

[Ben the Gooner]

Prismall also did something similar to this in the last IIRC.

Stanton.

---

I've been a big knocker of Atkinson, but his form in his three games has been impressive. I'm not convinced by any stretch yet. He deserves his spot on form, so hopefully he proves me wrong. I did think he'd lapsed back to his worst in the last quarter when he almost got caught after running into traffic but he broke the tackle so catastrophe was averted.

I don't think I'll ever be confident with the ball in his hands.

As a side note, how perfect was Gumby's kick for Atko's goal? Didn't have to break stride one little bit.

[Knight Ryders]

Atko is being asked to play a more defensive role than last season and he is playing this role very well. He's very hard to beat one on one given his pace and strength; he could yet be a good AFL player if he finds the perfect balance of attack and defence, but I'm happy with his defensive side atm (which he seems to be concentrating on).

[The Donners]

Stanton.

---



Thanks... I loved it! :thumbsu:

[Ben the Gooner]

Thanks... I loved it! :thumbsu:

Compare it to Stanton's effort with Fevola Rd 3, 2008. Anyone calling him soft is about 2 1/2 years out of date. I haven't seen him squib since then.

[Towno78]

That contest with Kosi was pivotal.

But apart from that, really loved everything Atko did today. His hard and fast run out of the backline came all day long and we looked a better side for it. I hope he gets a lot more games this year. :thumbsu:

[HighettBomber]

I did think he'd lapsed back to his worst in the last quarter when he almost got caught after running into traffic but he broke the tackle so catastrophe was averted.

I don't think I'll ever be confident with the ball in his hands.



That very bit of play is why he should be in our side. He had absolutely nobody to kick to who wasn't outnumbered and so used his pace and strength to break the tackle and then run it through their zone. From memory we ended up kicking a goal from that bit of play. In that situation most other players would have coughed it up. That was possibly a 12 point turnaround, specifically because of his effort.

There were a number of other occassions where his pace created pressure on the ball carrier and forced turnovers. It was a very impressive effort by Atkinson all around.

[blitzer]

I really liked what Atkinson has shown the last few games. Been getting less possessions but doing a much better job defensively and his run through the middle is terrific. Whilst he's probably not in our best 22, you rarely have your best 22 fit anyway, and i can't see why we would delist someone that could provide depth for our speedier players in the mid and can also play as a defender. He also fits our gameplan perfectly. I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason Knights has him in the team at the moment is to see if he is worth persevering with in the future and my answer at this stage would be, that if he keeps playing like this then yes.

[Ben the Gooner]

That very bit of play is why he should be in our side. He had absolutely nobody to kick to who wasn't outnumbered and so used his pace and strength to break the tackle and then run it through their zone. From memory we ended up kicking a goal from that bit of play. In that situation most other players would have coughed it up. That was possibly a 12 point turnaround, specifically because of his effort.

There were a number of other occassions where his pace created pressure on the ball carrier and forced turnovers. It was a very impressive effort by Atkinson all around.

Let's say the tackle didn't slip/get broken. We lose all momentum, they get a goal and probably win. Full credit to him for breaking it, but he has prior with getting caught (c.f. his abysmal 2nd quarter against Adelaide).

[AS9]

Haha I could see from my seat on the third level Atkinson's pants fill up when he saw big Kosi coming. To be fair to him he did hold his ground, but Kosi really should have put the knee in and made him earn it!

[HighettBomber]

Let's say the tackle didn't slip/get broken. We lose all momentum, they get a goal and probably win. Full credit to him for breaking it, but he has prior with getting caught (c.f. his abysmal 2nd quarter against Adelaide).

If he had of kicked it we would have been in the same predicament as if the tackle stuck, he had no good options. The fact is he is one of the few players we have who could have got out of the situation, not only did he get out of a bad situation but he turned it into attack.

Atkinson stuffs up occasionally, nobody claims he is a great footballer. You're never going to get 22 great footballers in one side. But his pace and strength add a lot to our side. His skills and decisionmaking are not that bad and seem to be getting better.

He is a far better option in the backline than his possible replacements.

[anf06]

Prismall also did something similar to this in the last IIRC.

It wasn't in the last, but yes Prismall also put his body on the line in front of the big Kosi monster. You may have heard me, I was the one clapping. But in all seriousness it was plenty of courage from Pris and Atko in this two instances.

[anf06]

Compare it to Stanton's effort with Fevola Rd 3, 2008. Anyone calling him soft is about 2 1/2 years out of date. I haven't seen him squib since then.

The Stanton one you are thinking about is when he backed back into the oncoming Ryder and Dawson in the last. Prismall was the one who backed into Kosi.

[Pweter]

If he had of kicked it we would have been in the same predicament as if the tackle stuck, he had no good options. The fact is he is one of the few players we have who could have got out of the situation, not only did he get out of a bad situation but he turned it into attack.

Atkinson stuffs up occasionally, nobody claims he is a great footballer. You're never going to get 22 great footballers in one side. But his pace and strength add a lot to our side. His skills and decisionmaking are not that bad and seem to be getting better.

He is a far better option in the backline than his possible replacements.

:thumbsu: to this.

Atkinson could've also handballed to a flat footed team mate under pressure, something which has hurt us a lot this season, but he didn't and turned a bad situation around by backing himself.

I reckon he is doing a little of what we relied on Lovett for last season. Lovett got the ball at half back and tore throuigh zones quite often to set up attacks, Atkinson has been using his greatest asset (pace) to attempt the same when the opportunity presents, yesterday it came off a few times. Winderlich could take a leaf out of his book here.

[Oh Tayteridge]

I thought his dash really broke the game open in the last quarter and was pivotal to the win. Was prepared to break the lines and take the game on when it was needed.

Reminded me a lot of vintage Lovett. Could be a very important player for us if he continues his improvement.

[Mad Bomber Sean]

I didnt see the game here in Indonesia, but by all accounts he played a pivital role in the victory. I have always been a fan of this kid & whilst he does have flaws in his game I feel that he deserves a spot in the first 22. Without question he will be on the list next year.

Could it be that one day even the blind will see....

[Ben the Gooner]

If he had of kicked it we would have been in the same predicament as if the tackle stuck, he had no good options. The fact is he is one of the few players we have who could have got out of the situation, not only did he get out of a bad situation but he turned it into attack.

Atkinson stuffs up occasionally, nobody claims he is a great footballer. You're never going to get 22 great footballers in one side. But his pace and strength add a lot to our side. His skills and decisionmaking are not that bad and seem to be getting better.

He is a far better option in the backline than his possible replacements.

Most would have turned back and kicked to Fletcher. When it works, Atkinson's game is fantastic, but when it doesn't, it's horrible. It doesn't work often enough IMO.

As for your last comment, Slatts and Dyson are well ahead of him. Plus Pears + Hooker in frees up Fletch which frees up Dempsey. Atkinson came in to indirectly replace Pears.

The Stanton one you are thinking about is when he backed back into the oncoming Ryder and Dawson in the last. Prismall was the one who backed into Kosi.

I don't recall the Prismall one, but that's the Stanton one I was talking about.

[Kong]

I've been a big knocker of Atkinson, but his form in his three games has been impressive. I'm not convinced by any stretch yet. He deserves his spot on form, so hopefully he proves me wrong. I did think he'd lapsed back to his worst in the last quarter when he almost got caught after running into traffic but he broke the tackle so catastrophe was averted.This.

Another thing that impressed me at the ground was his ability to sum up a situation and act accordingly. I counted three occasions where the ball was either passed to him or heading his way, and with a player hot on his tail, he either tapped or thumped it to the advantage of a running team mate. Once is lucky, twice is good work, but three times means he's clearly made an art form out of such a small, 1%, I guess. Every time it paid off and released a player, too.As a side note, how perfect was Gumby's kick for Atko's goal? Didn't have to break stride one little bit.Perfectly weighted!

[Walesy]

Last year, Atko was unaccountable, made terrible decisions and backed those decisions with even worse kicking. So it was a fair knock. :)

This year, we are seeing a better footballer and that makes me happy. While I still cringe when I see it's him with the ball, I think by years end I won't.

It's always nice to see a diamond emerging from the rough- particularly when it's your own rough. :)

[Kong]

Currently has 39 disposals (22 kicks, 17 handballs) at a disposal efficiency of 89.74%.

[Colin D'Cops]

The stats don't lie, his disposal by hand & foot has improved greatly. With his speed, the only thing missing from his game was some serious skill.

He certainly showed skill last night, lets hope he can continue his good form. :thumbsu:

[HighettBomber]

Most would have turned back and kicked to Fletcher. When it works, Atkinson's game is fantastic, but when it doesn't, it's horrible. It doesn't work often enough IMO.

As for your last comment, Slatts and Dyson are well ahead of him. Plus Pears + Hooker in frees up Fletch which frees up Dempsey. Atkinson came in to indirectly replace Pears.


I can't remember whether Fletcher was free or not, so can't comment on that option. I'll have to look at the replay. However, what might have happened is pretty much irrelevent, he did avade the tackle and we have only a couple of other players who might have been able to, and he did set up a goal. He also kicked a goal himself, which his speed allowed him to do, and was very good defensively. The closing speed of him and Dempsey directly stopped a lot of attacks by the saints, but also created a lot of pressure because the Saint midfielders and forwards were always in danger of being run down from behind.

I keep hearing that Hank is a much better player than Atkinson, but i have never seen it. Atkinson has been very good in most of the games i have seen him play, this year and last year. Hank has been good once this year, against Hawthorn, and has been soundly thrashed by his direct apponent every other time. He has never had a game where he has been as damaging going forward as Atkinson was last night or on multiple other occasions that come to mind. Dyson has been Ok in defense when played there, but i don't think he would be forcing Atkinson out of his spot, given his form last night, and I prefer Dyson in the midfield rotations anyway.

[Longy413]

A red hot Robbie Gray had four disposals to half time before Slatts had his ribs broken.

[Smyth94]

A red hot Robbie Gray had four disposals to half time before Slatts had his ribs broken.

Give up Longy, the Slatts bashers will be just that - Slatts bashers.

[ghostdog]

No don't give up Longy. Hank toweled Gray up and was one of the reasons we were able to hold ground with Port. Another five minutes of play and the result could have been in our favour.

I'm an Atko fan. He ventures to gain where others don't dare. I would suggest, though, that the instructions given to Atkinson would be very different to those given to Hank. There is no way Hank would be given license on game day to run off the line as hard as Atko does. The coaching staff aren't silly. They'd want him to use his pace. Hank would be told, mostly, to stay on his man.

[yaco55]

Currently has 39 disposals (22 kicks, 17 handballs) at a disposal efficiency of 89.74%.

Cant argue with those figures - unless you are Ben:)

And he has been defensively solid - which is even more important.

[Ben the Gooner]

Cant argue with those figures - unless you are Ben:)

I've been a big knocker of Atkinson, but his form in his three games has been impressive. I'm not convinced by any stretch yet. He deserves his spot on form, so hopefully he proves me wrong. I did think he'd lapsed back to his worst in the last quarter when he almost got caught after running into traffic but he broke the tackle so catastrophe was averted.

I don't think I'll ever be confident with the ball in his hands.

As a side note, how perfect was Gumby's kick for Atko's goal? Didn't have to break stride one little bit.

:confused:

[HighettBomber]

Give up Longy, the Slatts bashers will be just that - Slatts bashers.

That's a piss weak argument. The statement was made that Slattery is a better option than Atkinson. I just can't see why. Why don't you come up with something to back up your opinion if you think this is the case.

[The House]

He's still learning the pace of afl footy but i'd like to see him get a good run at holding down a running hbf spot to allow Dempsey to play wing or hff.

Was excellent v Hawks rnd 22 last yr and very good yesterday.
Well done Atko Man!

[EssendonPride]

That's a piss weak argument. The statement was made that Slattery is a better option than Atkinson. I just can't see why. Why don't you come up with something to back up your opinion if you think this is the case.

Slattery takes the oppositions best small forward.
Love Atkinson, but it's pretty obvious that he doesn't.

Slattery is a better defender, Atkinson has other attributes (Speed being a major one). Atkinson does his best work with the ball, Slatts does his when the opposition have it.

[Mad Bomber Sean]

With exception to the final against the Crows last year his form has been consistant. I am unashambly a massive fan & reckon that we are a better side with him in it.

The knights game plan needs it's fast breaking runners & with his size, pace, flair & dare I think that he actually offers the team more than Slatts does. That said if we needed to stop a Brilliant medium/small fwd - slatts does a better job, however Slatts offers little else. I feel that it is challanging for the team to play our natural speed game with the likes of Welsh, Slatts & Mcveigh. Atko, Howlett & NLM are better options.

Does anyone think that Slatts may be close to his use by date?

[Mad Bomber Sean]

I also think that Slatts is at his best now, where as Atko has grown into a better player & probably has much more development, growth & therefore up side than Slatts does in our team.

[EssendonPride]

Does anyone think that Slatts may be close to his use by date?

I also think that Slatts is at his best now, where as Atko has grown into a better player & probably has much more development, growth & therefore up side than Slatts does in our team.

They don't even play the same bloody position.
Atkinson is more a rebounder, Slattery a true defender. Is it that hard to comprehend?

Now age certainly doesn't mean a hell of alot (Especially with atko getting picked up late), but Slatts is actually a year younger.

[Darealrath]

He brings a lot to the table and apart from the crows final, when just about everyone was rubbish, he's taken very little off it.

We are at our worst when we play stagnant footy and he certainly gets us going.

[Colin D'Cops]

They don't even play the same bloody position.
Atkinson is more a rebounder, Slattery a true defender. Is it that hard to comprehend?

That brings up a different issue.

A 'true' midfielder with hard-at-it attributes simply does not cut it anymore. Ask Shirley previously from the Crows.

Is there still a place in football for a 'true' defender (where they are good at 1-on-1s, but offer little elsewhere)?

[Ben the Gooner]

Ask Presti, ask Darren Glass, ask Steven Baker, ask Brady Rawlings.

[Colin D'Cops]

Darren Glass & Presti: key position players. Nothing to discuss.

Baker & Rawlings: fringe players. North need some experience in their side and Rawlings offers that leadership and direction. Could be out of the side later in the year if the youngsters start performing. Baker is one I think could be out of the Saints team in the near future. St Kilda has been found out the last few weeks with not having enough pace, and Baker is one that is not blessed with pace (or skill either).

Interesting discussion.

[Ben the Gooner]

So shutting down dangerous key forwards is vital, yet shutting down dangerous small forwards isn't?:confused:

Also, find me a North or St Kilda fan who thinks Rawlings or Baker is a fringe player, and I'll show you an idiot.

[Colin D'Cops]

Key forwards offer great marking targets, so are essentially the first people the midfielders look to past the ball to. When Roughead or J. Riewoldt come storming down the pocket with some space, you can guarentee their teammates will try and spot them up. When small forwards such as Motlop and Thomas coming storming down the pockets, because of their limited marking capabilities; are over looked on numerous ocassions.

I could easily look around the boards and see some negative comments on Baker & Rawlings from their own fans. I can guarentee it. Can't right now though, in the middle of my first of three essays ATM unfortunately. :p

[bipolarbeaR]

Brady Rawlings a fringe player?
He is a nose ahead of most other shut down players dude.

[Colin D'Cops]

Brady Rawlings a fringe player?

Certainly. I'm sure I said that earlier.

May look above average in an average Roos squad but, I can understand that.

[Ben the Gooner]

Key forwards offer great marking targets, so are essentially the first people the midfielders look to past the ball to. When Roughead or J. Riewoldt come storming down the pocket with some space, you can guarentee their teammates will try and spot them up. When small forwards such as Motlop and Thomas coming storming down the pockets, because of their limited marking capabilities; are over looked on numerous ocassions.

Why bother manning anyone less than 6'4" up at all then?:rolleyes:

Brady Rawlings a fringe player?
He is a nose ahead of most other shut down players dude.

So he's miles in front? ;)

[EssendonPride]

That brings up a different issue.

A 'true' midfielder with hard-at-it attributes simply does not cut it anymore. Ask Shirley previously from the Crows.

Is there still a place in football for a 'true' defender (where they are good at 1-on-1s, but offer little elsewhere)?

What is Jobe Watson if he isn't a 'true' midfielder?
If a player is good enough at what they do, they're required.

I'd argue that Slattery offers more than just the 1-on-1s, He gets across for the chop out quite well, and still gets a bit of the ball.
I actually think he's perfect for the team. Helps offset the less defensive nature of some of our rebounders (Dempsey, Atko, etc).

I know he cops a hell of alot on here, but I'm not one of his detractors.

Kind of annoying that a thread praising Atko had to evolve into one bashing Slatts however.

[Kong]

Rawlings: fringe players. North need some experience in their side and Rawlings offers that leadership and direction. Could be out of the side later in the year if the youngsters start performing.Just on this, Rawlings has had an outstanding season to date.

His name would almost certainly be in contention for All Australian right now.

[The Donners]

NLM, Slattery, Pears, Reimers, Welsh, Lonergan are better footballers than him.


Might be better footballers but he's unmatched for leg speed by the above and he has more confidence to take the game on. We needed a small defender with run and carry and now we have one - Atkinson.

[Colin D'Cops]

What is Jobe Watson if he isn't a 'true' midfielder?
If a player is good enough at what they do, they're required.

Watson is a true midfielder, dead right. But he is absolutely brilliant at his job, big difference.

There's not many that can do, what Jobe does on a consistant basis. There's exceptions in any rule/s.

[Colin D'Cops]

Just on this, Rawlings has had an outstanding season to date.

Never stated he has had a below average season to date. Just stated as the Roos are taking a few steps backwards, to go forwards; he might be one that gets chopped from the squad towards the latter end of the year. Can see him being used as that scapegoat, 'fringe' player.

[Kong]

Never stated he has had a below average season to date. Just stated as the Roos are taking a few steps backwards, to go forwards; he might be one that gets chopped from the squad towards the latter end of the year. Can see him being used as that scapegoat, 'fringe' player.Fair enough.

I have to disagree though; if he keeps playing close to the level he is right now, there's no way they'll drop him.

He'd quite possibly be winning their best & fairest, too.

It reminds me of Adelaide pushing McLeod, Edwards and Goodwin out of the midfield to the flanks to not only develop the likes of Vince and van Berlo, but to strengthen other weaknesses in the side.

[Ben the Gooner]

Why bother manning anyone less than 6'4" up at all then?:rolleyes:

Colin?

[Longy413]

That's a piss weak argument. The statement was made that Slattery is a better option than Atkinson. I just can't see why. Why don't you come up with something to back up your opinion if you think this is the case.

Better option than what?

To play a lock down role? Of course he is. Atkinson doesn't have the smarts to play that role, much less to know when to zone off and help someone else.

To play a running and receiving type role? Then of course Atkinson is better.
But Atkinson isn't play as a small defender, he's playing as a half-back/winger.

Might be better footballers but he's unmatched for leg speed by the above and he has more confidence to take the game on. We needed a small defender with run and carry and now we have one - Atkinson.

When Slattery comes back, he and McVeigh play the lock down roles that free up Dempsey and Dempsey returns to that defender with run and carry.

Atkinson is spending a lot of time on the wing, he's not really playing as a defender.

[antongrbac]

I like Atko as a player ... a vital cog in the side at present
provides run and carry off the wing and HB
manages to kick the inspirational goal or 2 running down the ground particularly v the aints ...which is a bonus

[Ben the Gooner]

Atkinson is spending a lot of time on the wing, he's not really playing as a defender.

I reckon that once Dempsey doesn't have to play Fletcher's role, he'll be straight into that wing/HBF role.

This is where McPhee's loss is hurting the most - Dempsey can't run as much.

[lamaros]

I reckon that once Dempsey doesn't have to play Fletcher's role, he'll be straight into that wing/HBF role.

This is where McPhee's loss is hurting the most - Dempsey can't run as much.

We're not missing McPhee at all.

[HighettBomber]

Better option than what?

To play a lock down role? Of course he is. Atkinson doesn't have the smarts to play that role, much less to know when to zone off and help someone else.

To play a running and receiving type role? Then of course Atkinson is better.
But Atkinson isn't play as a small defender, he's playing as a half-back/winger.



When Slattery comes back, he and McVeigh play the lock down roles that free up Dempsey and Dempsey returns to that defender with run and carry.

Atkinson is spending a lot of time on the wing, he's not really playing as a defender.

There is no such thing as a lock down role, it is an excuse for a player not being good enough. Defenders need to defand and attack. Slattery can defend Ok, as long as his apponent isn't good overhead or too quick, but he lacks badly in the attacking department. The game against Hawthorn was very pleasing because he played tight on Rioli but did give us somehting going forward as well. If he did this more often I would change my mind on him, but generally he is very poor in this area. His defensive skills are also overated, he loses crumbing forwards frequently and is too slow to keep up on leading forwards. He does seem to have improved in one on one marking contests, I'll give him that too.

In contrast, I think Atkinson's defensive skills are very underated. He is obviously quick so more difficult an opponenbt for lead up forwards, although his overhead and one on one marking skills could improve, but he at least stays with his opponent and provides a contest. If the ball is in the open, he is very hard to beat and he creates great tackling pressure generally because the forwards are woried about himn dragging them down from behind (same sort of pressure that Alwyn creates in the forward line), this was very evident against St Kilda. There is obviously no comparison in terms of offensive skills.

[adii_7]

I reckon that once Dempsey doesn't have to play Fletcher's role, he'll be straight into that wing/HBF role.

This is where McPhee's loss is hurting the most - Dempsey can't run as much.

i just spat my drink, ruined my keyboard... thanks man

McPhees was a huge loss..yehright

[Ben the Gooner]

We're not missing McPhee at all.

i just spat my drink, ruined my keyboard... thanks man

McPhees was a huge loss..yehright

Play McPhee in Dempsey's role against Port (Dempsey would probably have been in Atkinson's role) and we'd have won. Despite what McPhee is like at holding marks, I doubt he'd have tried to mark running back with the flight at the top of the opposition's goalsquare.

Dempsey tries hard, and has been serviceable as a third tall, but McPhee's zoning was his biggest strength, and Dempsey doesn't do it anywhere near as well.

[adii_7]

ben, i dont agree with you, but i kind of do. anyone can do that job. hell lets get kepler back.

[Longy413]

There is no such thing as a lock down role, it is an excuse for a player not being good enough. Defenders need to defand and attack.

There isn't?

What does Toovey do at Collingwood?
Baker at St Kilda?
Dale Morris?
Paul Bevan at Sydney?
Hunt at Geelong?
Joseph at Carlton?

Other than Hunt, none of them offer more in attack than Slattery and they get a game because the ability to lock down on the oppositions best small forward is so important. That's why Slattery will continue to get a game ahead of Atkinson.

What did Campbell Brown do at Hawthorn in 2008?
Damien Hardwick in 2000?

It's a bloody important role.

Atkinson's defensive skills aren't underrated, they're just okay. But they're not at the standard of Slattery, Atkinson doesn't even really play in defense.

To win a flag, you need defensive players and attacking players. Slattery is a very good small defensive player and is as good as any in the comp. I'd have him before Baker, yet Baker was a couple of goals off being a premiership player.

Atkinson is an improving attacking player that has plenty of competition for spots, might be good, but has to continue to improve because there are others breathing down his neck. He's not a gun as has been suggested in this thread, but he's played some good footy. He's not competing with Slattery for a spot.

[Ben the Gooner]

ben, i dont agree with you, but i kind of do. anyone can do that job. hell lets get kepler back.

Seems Dempsey can't. If anyone can, but he can't, he must be pretty average.

See how flimsy your logic (quote unquote) is?

[Kong]

Pwned.

[HFF_07]

Have a look at this. This was our list when Atkinson was recruited.

Atkinson, Jarrod
Bellchambers, Tom
Daniher, Darcy
Davey, Darcy
Dempsey, Courtenay
Dyson, Ricky
Fletcher, Dustin
Hille, David
Hislop, Tom
Hocking, Heath
Hooker, Cale
Houli, Bachar
Jetta, Leroy
Johns, Courtenay
Johnson, Jason
Johnson, Mark
Laycock, Jason
Lloyd, Matthew
Lonergan, Sam
Lovett, Andrew
Lovett-Murray, Sam
Lucas, Scott
Magin, Rhys
McPhee, Adam
Mcveigh, Mark
Michael, Mal
Monfries, Angus
Myers, David
Nash, Jay
Neagle, Jay
Pears, Tayte
Peverill, Damian
Ramanauskas, Adam
Riemers, Kyle
Ryder, Patrick
Slattery, Henry
Stanton, Brent
Watson, Jobe
Welsh, Andrew
Williams, John
Winderlich, Jason

Underlined players are 25 years old or over.. Alot of indifferent ages there. Alot of players who are very young, or very old. thus the reasons why Atkinson may have been picked up in this draft, more an insurance policy than anything else perhaps?

[EssendonPride]

Have a look at this. This was our list when Atkinson was recruited.

Underlined players are 25 years old or over.. Alot of indifferent ages there. Alot of players who are very young, or very old. thus the reasons why Atkinson may have been picked up in this draft, more an insurance policy than anything else perhaps?

Interesting to note, but you're not trying to imply this has any meaning to it now are you? (Not having a go at you, honest question as I'm not sure)
I think it's safe to say he's exceeded expectations, going by his form thus far his spot on the list seems safe.


Oh, and you underlined Atkinson but he was only 23 when drafted:p (I get your point though)

[HighettBomber]

There isn't?

What does Toovey do at Collingwood?
Baker at St Kilda?
Dale Morris?
Paul Bevan at Sydney?
Hunt at Geelong?
Joseph at Carlton?

Other than Hunt, none of them offer more in attack than Slattery and they get a game because the ability to lock down on the oppositions best small forward is so important. That's why Slattery will continue to get a game ahead of Atkinson.

What did Campbell Brown do at Hawthorn in 2008?
Damien Hardwick in 2000?

It's a bloody important role.

Atkinson's defensive skills aren't underrated, they're just okay. But they're not at the standard of Slattery, Atkinson doesn't even really play in defense.

To win a flag, you need defensive players and attacking players. Slattery is a very good small defensive player and is as good as any in the comp. I'd have him before Baker, yet Baker was a couple of goals off being a premiership player.

Atkinson is an improving attacking player that has plenty of competition for spots, might be good, but has to continue to improve because there are others breathing down his neck. He's not a gun as has been suggested in this thread, but he's played some good footy. He's not competing with Slattery for a spot.

The players you mention mostly offer a hell of a lot more than just a lock down role on small forwards:

Toovey is very quick and gives them some run out of defence. I think he is a hack too by the way but he is a much more attacking player.
Not a fan of Baker, but he has had occasional games where he has had 30 touches, Hank will never do this.
Dale Morris can play on talls and smalls, so give the dogs a lot of flexibility, his disposal and run out of defence are also superior to Hank.
Paul Bevan has played decent roles in the midfield and forward, he wins the ball well and a far better all round player.
Hunt is a fantastic kick and can be used a designated kicker, as well as playing defensively.
Joseph is probably the closest to Hank, but he is at least fairly quick.
Hardwick was a good offensive player as well as being a tight defender, he started as a wingman in case you don't remember.
Campbell Brown is quick, can play tall or small, back or forward, can win plenty of the ball. He is a wining bitch but hardly comparable as a player.

Pretty poor comparisons.

[lamaros]

Play McPhee in Dempsey's role against Port (Dempsey would probably have been in Atkinson's role) and we'd have won. Despite what McPhee is like at holding marks, I doubt he'd have tried to mark running back with the flight at the top of the opposition's goalsquare.

Dempsey tries hard, and has been serviceable as a third tall, but McPhee's zoning was his biggest strength, and Dempsey doesn't do it anywhere near as well.

I'd say that was where we were missing Pears and Dyson, not McPhee. :D

Dempsey was very poor, but that was because he was playing much deeper in defence than he should.

[Longy413]

The players you mention mostly offer a hell of a lot more than just a lock down role on small forwards:

Toovey is very quick and gives them some run out of defence. I think he is a hack too by the way but he is a much more attacking player.
Not a fan of Baker, but he has had occasional games where he has had 30 touches, Hank will never do this.
Dale Morris can play on talls and smalls, so give the dogs a lot of flexibility, his disposal and run out of defence are also superior to Hank.
Paul Bevan has played decent roles in the midfield and forward, he wins the ball well and a far better all round player.
Hunt is a fantastic kick and can be used a designated kicker, as well as playing defensively.
Joseph is probably the closest to Hank, but he is at least fairly quick.
Hardwick was a good offensive player as well as being a tight defender, he started as a wingman in case you don't remember.
Campbell Brown is quick, can play tall or small, back or forward, can win plenty of the ball. He is a wining bitch but hardly comparable as a player.

Pretty poor comparisons.

Okay, you're serious, we'll agree to disagree.

Brown quick....wow.

[Skeeta Olly]

Okay, you're serious, we'll agree to disagree.

Brown quick....wow.

I'll think you'll find the difference is they're not 'Slattery'. If you know what I mean?

[HighettBomber]

Okay, you're serious, we'll agree to disagree.

Brown quick....wow.

It's obvious we will have to agree to disagree, but why don't you coiunter my arguments?

Brown is definately quick.

[AndyLesPaul]

Wasn't so good yesterday. Looks like he'll be dropped when Slattery returns.

[Noddy Holder]

I was standing outside the G last night puffing away at halftime. This guy starts talking to me. Turns out to be Jarrod's dad. Nice guy. I'm a fan of Atkinson. He deserves to be in the team ahead of Slats.

[yaco55]

Disappointed in his game last night from the point of view - that richmond's tactics gave him every chance to play well.

Sides normally try to isolate him near the goal square to get Atkinson out of his comfort zone, but last night his opponents fairly much played around half forward and Atkinson was still shaky.

[Boucks09]

Apart from a cute behind the back knock on he was terrible on Saturday night. Although Nahas didn't do much either, he missed quite a few tackles, clanged the ball when we were doing 'the fist' and just doesn't run hard enough defensively.

It's amazing to see how fast he runs into our forward 50 but not when the ball is coming into the defensive 50. Dempsey saved his bacon quite a few times.

Is treading water until one of Slattery, Dyson or Reimers comes in.

[Longy413]

It's obvious we will have to agree to disagree, but why don't you coiunter my arguments?

You don't have an argument, you were countering mine.

Brown is definately quick.

Sorry, you've lost me.


It's amazing to see how fast he runs into our forward 50 but not when the ball is coming into the defensive 50. Dempsey saved his bacon quite a few times.

This just angered me. His lack of effort the other way was appalling.

Richmond played a midfield press/zone on Saturday night which meant when they won the ball back, they had an open forward line and their forwards would play from behind as a result, the amount of times he lost touch and got caught under the ball shocked me. He just didn't learn throughout the night and kept making the same mistake.

Will be out this week for Dyson I'd imagine.
I like what he adds offensively, but he his defensive awareness is just too great at this stage for his positives to outweigh his negatives.

[Slattery_20]

Will be out this week for Dyson I'd imagine.

Yep.
Hardwick had about 2 things right - Reiwoldt deep and his delivery high overhead; and showing up Atkinson overhead.
Reckon Dyso would have made a few more contests at least.

[Towno78]

It's obvious we will have to agree to disagree, but why don't you coiunter my arguments?

Brown is definately quick.

Campbell Brown is quick. big lols.

[Ben the Gooner]

Dyson fit already Longy?

[Longy413]

Touch and go for this week, might need an extra one given we play Friday.

[WeAreEssendon]

On the subject of Campbell Brown - he is definitely quick. He competed and came close to winning the Grand Final sprint.

[Slattery_20]

Brown's lost at least half a step over the years. Not as quick as he once was.

[Ben the Gooner]

Touch and go for this week, might need an extra one given we play Friday.

Very quick turn around for him, well done to the medicos.

Would have to be a chance to come back through Bendigo, although if Slattery isn't fit, I'd prefer Dyson to Atkinson.

[HighettBomber]

You don't have an argument, you were countering mine.



Sorry, you've lost me.




This just angered me. His lack of effort the other way was appalling.

Richmond played a midfield press/zone on Saturday night which meant when they won the ball back, they had an open forward line and their forwards would play from behind as a result, the amount of times he lost touch and got caught under the ball shocked me. He just didn't learn throughout the night and kept making the same mistake.

Will be out this week for Dyson I'd imagine.
I like what he adds offensively, but he his defensive awareness is just too great at this stage for his positives to outweigh his negatives.

You didn't argue anything you listed a bunch of players and stated that there are all lock down defenders. The only thing any of them had in common with Hank is that they play in defence. That's not an argument. You then claim that it is laughable to call Campbell Brown quick when, as has been stated, he almost one the Grand Final sprint one year.

Atkinson didn't play a particularly good game on Saturday, but he still beat his direct opponent, the point is that that's the best Hank can ever hope to do, he is never going to be an offensive threat.

How would we have been on Saturday with Richmond bringing the ball into an open forwardline and Hank trying to stop Nahas or White from running onto the ball? It would have been a nightmare.

[Longy413]

You didn't argue anything you listed a bunch of players and stated that there are all lock down defenders. The only thing any of them had in common with Hank is that they play in defence. That's not an argument. You then claim that it is laughable to call Campbell Brown quick when, as has been stated, he almost one the Grand Final sprint one year.

Running in a straight line is significantly different to being quick on the footy field. Brown isn't quick.

Nor is Stanley, he won the sprint last year. Brown doesn't use his "pace" on the footy field.

My argument is that Slattery has a place in our side and would in most others. I won't move away from that. He is playing better football in 2010 than most of those I mentioned. Probably all of them except for Morris.

Having someone you can rely on to lock down on a dangerous opponent is critical. Whilst he plays tall, look at the importance Collingwood place on Presti.

Slattery is tough, he wins contests and he uses the ball well when he gets it. Be nice if he got it more, but that isn't his primary objective. It's the reason he did so well in the B&F last year and I wouldn't be surprised if he was up there at the time of getting injured this year.


Atkinson didn't play a particularly good game on Saturday, but he still beat his direct opponent, the point is that that's the best Hank can ever hope to do, he is never going to be an offensive threat.

Atkinson didn't play on a opponent. He played on a range of blokes and got beaten in far too many contests to suggest he beat any opponent anyway. The number of times he jogged through the middle of the ground when the opposition had the ball was laughable.

He was far from an offensive threat, mind you he did use his pace a lot more when we had the ball. His highlight was fumbling the ball and then pushing out a little tap to Jetta.

Come on.

How would we have been on Saturday with Richmond bringing the ball into an open forwardline and Hank trying to stop Nahas or White from running onto the ball? It would have been a nightmare.

He wouldn't have been so easily pushed under the ball like Atkinson and he would have learned from his mistakes. He would have bloody well chased harder.

[HFF_07]

It's funny reading over this thread...

One week he is toasted,

the next he is roasted...

Sorry to say Atko, 13 games or what ever in 3 years is not good enough for a 'mature' age recruit..

Will be delisted come years end IMO

[HighettBomber]

Running in a straight line is significantly different to being quick on the footy field. Brown isn't quick.

Nor is Stanley, he won the sprint last year. Brown doesn't use his "pace" on the footy field.

My argument is that Slattery has a place in our side and would in most others. I won't move away from that. He is playing better football in 2010 than most of those I mentioned. Probably all of them except for Morris.

Having someone you can rely on to lock down on a dangerous opponent is critical. Whilst he plays tall, look at the importance Collingwood place on Presti.

Slattery is tough, he wins contests and he uses the ball well when he gets it. Be nice if he got it more, but that isn't his primary objective. It's the reason he did so well in the B&F last year and I wouldn't be surprised if he was up there at the time of getting injured this year.




Atkinson didn't play on a opponent. He played on a range of blokes and got beaten in far too many contests to suggest he beat any opponent anyway. The number of times he jogged through the middle of the ground when the opposition had the ball was laughable.

He was far from an offensive threat, mind you he did use his pace a lot more when we had the ball. His highlight was fumbling the ball and then pushing out a little tap to Jetta.

Come on.



He wouldn't have been so easily pushed under the ball like Atkinson and he would have learned from his mistakes. He would have bloody well chased harder.

I'm sorry but Brown is quick and he does use it, albeit not as his major weapon. Stanley is a different matter, he is obviously quick in a straight line, but he is 200cm so you would not expect that he would have a good turning circle. As with most comparisons you seem to give, very poor.

Apart from Morris I wouldn't particularly want any of the players you mentioned, but i think they are all better players than Hank, maybe with the exception of Toovey, although he at least has some pace. Slattery is pretty much alone in the club of small defenders who are slow, poorly skilled, poor overhead, poor decision makers who can't get the ball.

The comment about him using the ball well has to be a joke, even his staunchest supporters on here admit that he plays withing his limitations by kicking the ball short and sideways.

Atkinson may not be the greatest defender ever, but he has been doing a pretty good job this year, and did also in the few games he played last year. He may be mature aged, but he is still inexperienced at the top level and sems to be improving. Apart from the game against Hawthorn, I have seen nothing from Hank this year that suggests he might be improving. There is room for, and the possibility of, Atkinson improving his flaws, I can't see that there is any scope for Hank to improve on his.

[Slattery_20]

Atko was dead-set, utterly, truly and completely woeful 2 or 3 times last year. I seem to remember every game he came into the side was good, then he'd follow up with a Barry. He didn't have a good or consistent year, he had 3 or 4 good games. The gap between his best and worst is far, far too big.

[Longy413]

The comment about him using the ball well has to be a joke, even his staunchest supporters on here admit that he plays withing his limitations by kicking the ball short and sideways.


Which results in him using the ball well.

Apart from the game against Hawthorn, I have seen nothing from Hank this year that suggests he might be improving. There is room for, and the possibility of, Atkinson improving his flaws, I can't see that there is any scope for Hank to improve on his.

What about holding Gray to four disposals in a half before breaking his ribs and then coming back on the field?

What about a top 10 B&F finish in 2009?

[Ben the Gooner]

But Longy, you're missing the key point which is Atkinson can improve, but Hank can't ;)

[bomberstomake8]

for me its either a choice between atkinson and slattery, and id choose slattery every day of the week.

Atkinson can be very easily exploited as a weak link in defence. He is terrible overhead and in one-on-one contests. The tigers really didnt exploit this on the weekend however the good teams will, atkinson one out in the defensive 50 is asking for trouble. Slattery can be relied upon in defence to shutdown his opponent every week and although he doesnt provide the same rebound as atkinson would his job is primarily a shutdown role and above all thats what you need to do

[Kong]

But Longy, you're missing the key point which is Atkinson can improve, but Hank can't ;)Even though Atkinson's a year older, right?

[HighettBomber]

But Longy, you're missing the key point which is Atkinson can improve, but Hank can't ;)

So you think he is going to improve his pace, he's suddenly going to learn to read the play and get some awareness? You live in fairyland. Atkinson's flaws are far more likely to be improved on. For a start he has made far fewer skill errors this year than i have seen him make previously, he was outmarked a few times against Port, but i haven't seen him outmarked since and contrary to what you and some other seem to think, his defensive efforts have been pretty solid, certainly better than Hank's form pre Hawthorn. I can't remember who he played on against Geelong, but he was beaten convincingly by Ballantyne, Betts, LeCras and Didak.

[Kong]

Wrong. He kept Steve Johnson to two arsey goals.

He was beaten by Ballantyne, but.. Actually, why ****ing bother.

I give up.

[Ben the Gooner]

but he was beaten convincingly by Ballantyne,

Disagree. Worst game I've seen Dempsey play, Headland was everywhere, leaving Hank nowhere.

Betts

Did he get a touch?

LeCras

Didn't put a foot wrong after the 16 second mark (and it's debatable how much that was his fault to start with - Hille deserves most of the blame for his "ruckwork" in that contest).

Not sure which games you're watching.:confused:

[HighettBomber]

Wrong. He kept Steve Johnson to two arsey goals.

He was beaten by Ballantyne, but.. Actually, why ****ing bother.

I give up.

I agree, why bother arguing when it is so obvious that Hank has been soundly beaten by most of his opponents.

Geelong - Steve Johnson 4 goals (if as you suggest he played on him)
Freo - Ballantyne 3 goals
Blues - Betts 2 goals, 3 behinds 3 goal assists (they only kicked 10 goals and Hanks direct opponent had a hand in 50% of them)
WC - LeCras 4 goals

I'm happy to applaud him for his game against Hawthorn, I thought he was pretty good. I didn't see when he went off against Port, but Robbie Gray didn't do much in the first half, so happy to give him that one.

1.5 good games out of 5.5 is not consistent and the goals kicked on him suggest his defensive capabilities are pretty overated. Who has kicked a bag on Atkinson?

[HighettBomber]

Disagree. Worst game I've seen Dempsey play, Headland was everywhere, leaving Hank nowhere.



Did he get a touch?



Didn't put a foot wrong after the 16 second mark (and it's debatable how much that was his fault to start with - Hille deserves most of the blame for his "ruckwork" in that contest).

Not sure which games you're watching.:confused:

Des Headland had 10 disposals against us, he was hardly everywhere. It is a hollow argument to blame other players for Hanks failings, he was simply too slow to keep up with Ballantyne.

Betts was Carltons best player and was directly responsible for almost half their score.

Not defending Hille against WC, but Hank started from nexdt to his opponent and failed to make a contest in the first bit of play, he was lost numerous other times because LeCras was too smart or quick, far from his worst game but he had 4 goals kicked on him so its hard to claim he played well.

What games were you watching?

[Ben the Gooner]

he had 4 goals kicked on him so its hard to claim he played well.

What games were you watching?

I lolled.

Will respond to the rest later, a tad busy atm.