View Full Version : Roast M.Williams should be in our side
Bombers36
21 May 2010, 13:51
Regardless of who else is in or out of the side or who we play at the moment, M.Williams should be in. Im not sure if theres anyone else in our team that averages 2.1 goals per game & has played in a premiership. He proved his still got it with his game against Carlton where he kicked 4, and has been solid back at Bendigo unlike another forgotten full foward (remember J.Neagle?). We will never know but I reckon we would have won that Port game had Willo been there - hes such a great kick for goal - something we desperately lacked on that day.
Fine to have Hurley at Full foward but why not have Willo in a pocket next to him? Or even Hurley out to a flank and Willo at F.Forward with 2 crumbing smaller players next to him - i.e. Davey, Jetta. I dont understand why we went after this guy so vigorously, gave up a draft pick & gave him a 3 year contract and hes done nothing wrong yet we still dont play him...? Would have been better off giving Lloydy 1 more year than doing that i reckon....
Its simply beyond me why such a sublimely talented forward with the runs on the board isn't getting a run - especially for Dreamtime
nickh32
21 May 2010, 14:16
Think you might find Fletcher played in 3 grand finals and won 2 of them.
The way our forward line has been working recently i wouldnt want to change to much cause its been working well. Willo has played 1 good game for bendigo he needs to string a few together to get promoted imo otherwis he wont learn his lesson and just go back to being a downhill player. You cant say we would of won if willo played against port cause who would of been out for him? To many factors to take in to say if we would of won or not.
WeAreEssendon
21 May 2010, 14:33
Its simply beyond me why such a sublimely talented forward with the runs on the board isn't getting a run - especially for Dreamtime
It's simple. 3 out of his 4 games were sub standard and that's being generous. We also seem unbalanced with him in the side.
If our side is playing better without a big name then who gives a stuff if they are in or not. Team has played well the past 3 weeks and our intensity and tackling are up. Why put someone in that lacks intensity and doesn't tackle?
Williams will be back in the 22 soon enough. Lonergan is not a long term option imo. Neither is Jetta.
chris2269
21 May 2010, 14:46
It's simple. 3 out of his 4 games were sub standard and that's being generous.... Why put someone in that lacks intensity and doesn't tackle?
The whole team played substandard for 3 out of 4 of those games, so to expect a forward to play well when the rest of the team, in particular the midfield were poor is a bit rich.
As for the question about why playing someone who lacks intensity and doesn't tackle.....why play someone who shits himself whenever he has to make body contact (Davey) and who struggles to kick a set shot (Zaharakis/Davey)......You can't have 22 players out there who all have the same strengths - you need a mixture of talent, skill , toughness, determination and maturity, not a bunch of rough nuts who can go hard in for the ball and then have no ability to use it.
But I do love that you use the famous Willo sledge in that he lacks intensity - if only you can see what this guy goes through to get his body right to get out every week, his body language does him no favours - but it is never going to change. Willo looked like he was about to fall asleep in the grand final but it didn't stop him from having a great game.
Bombers36
21 May 2010, 14:48
nickh32 - Flecth is a great player, but Im not talking about defenders here - im talking about forwards, and i dont think flecth as great as he is has kicked to many goals in finals or many goals at all for that matter
and WeAreEssendon - can you please define unbalanced?? Do you think Willo would not give a stuff if he plays in the seniors or not? Thats a ridiculous staement. hed love to be in the side, especially for this Dreamttime game.
kaskine
21 May 2010, 14:52
Willo has played 1 good game for bendigo.
ok how about houli he has been goin really good in the vfl and his handballs is better after everyone said that he didnt have a good one like any one in the team has a good one. the only way players are gonna get a game is if ur liked by Matthew Knights :confused::thumbsd: i can tell u 3-4 palyers that shouldnt be in the team right now :o
ok how about houli he has been goin really good in the vfl and his handballs is better after everyone said that he didnt have a good one like any one in the team has a good one. the only way players are gonna get a game is if ur liked by Matthew Knights :confused::thumbsd: i can tell u 3-4 palyers that shouldnt be in the team right now :o
And yet the team has one 2 of the past 3 and pushed port adelaide till the last minute.....
kaskine
21 May 2010, 15:09
And yet the team has one 2 of the past 3 and pushed port adelaide till the last minute.....
3-4 players doesnt make the teams win its the teams work theres no i in team and im sayin that there r better player in the vfl then in the tems right now
Bombers36
21 May 2010, 15:09
The whole team played substandard for 3 out of 4 of those games, so to expect a forward to play well when the rest of the team, in particular the midfield were poor is a bit rich.
As for the question about why playing someone who lacks intensity and doesn't tackle.....why play someone who sh#ts himself whenever he has to make body contact (Davey) and who struggles to kick a set shot (Zaharakis/Davey)......You can't have 22 players out there who all have the same strengths - you need a mixture of talent, skill , toughness, determination and maturity, not a bunch of rough nuts who can go hard in for the ball and then have no ability to use it.
But I do love that you use the famous Willo sledge in that he lacks intensity - if only you can see what this guy goes through to get his body right to get out every week, his body language does him no favours - but it is never going to change. Willo looked like he was about to fall asleep in the grand final but it didn't stop him from having a great game.
This :) Very well said.:thumbsu:
It's simple. 3 out of his 4 games were sub standard and that's being generous. We also seem unbalanced with him in the side.
If our side is playing better without a big name then who gives a stuff if they are in or not. Team has played well the past 3 weeks and our intensity and tackling are up. Why put someone in that lacks intensity and doesn't tackle?Agree with this.
Having said that, the supply was atrocious while he was playing.
He'll be back in the side soon enough, and I'm optimistic he can show us why we gave up a first round pick for him.
lamaros
21 May 2010, 15:34
Our goal averages this season, for those who have played 4 games or more:
Monfries 1.7 10g5b
Reimers 1.5 6g1b
Hurley 1.4 7g1b
Davey 1.4 7g4b
Zaka 1.4 11g11b
Williams 1.3 5g0b
Gumby 1.1 9g8b
Ryder 1 8g7b
Hille .9 7g6b
Lonergan .8 3g4b
I can't say Williams adds more in the rest of his play that he would get a game ahead of anyone else, and his goals aren't anything impressive. What is impressive is his accuracy...
So he'll get his chance when he gets it, and will have to take it, because he's not a walk up start. (Would much rather see Reimers in the side than Williams on form this year and versatility).
In other news. How good will be be once Zaka, Gumby, Hille and Ryder get a bit more accurate?? 35 goals 32 behinds from them so far.
djrossie
21 May 2010, 15:52
I would like to see.............
Williams Hurley Reimers
Zaharakis Gumbleton Monfries
as our best foward line
...................at some stage.
However the points about if it aint broke don't fix it are quite valid.
WeAreEssendon
21 May 2010, 16:05
But I do love that you use the famous Willo sledge in that he lacks intensity - if only you can see what this guy goes through to get his body right to get out every week, his body language does him no favours - but it is never going to change. Willo looked like he was about to fall asleep in the grand final but it didn't stop him from having a great game.
I'd like him to show the intensity on the field. It includes tackling and making second efforts which haven't been part of his makeup for 100 odd games.
When he plays better he'll get a game. He needs to show more versatility as the game is moving past one trick ponies.
Hopefully for us he does this as we've invested a fair bit - 3 years!
The Donners
21 May 2010, 16:15
It's simple. 3 out of his 4 games were sub standard and that's being generous. We also seem unbalanced with him in the side.
That's bullshit, it's more to do with delivery into our forward line. Kick it to him and he'll finish off the hard work.
If our side is playing better without a big name then who gives a stuff if they are in or not. Team has played well the past 3 weeks and our intensity and tackling are up. Why put someone in that lacks intensity and doesn't tackle?
There's plenty more improving for Essendon to do and improvement there will be with Williams in the side.
The Donners
21 May 2010, 16:42
I'd like him to show the intensity on the field. It includes tackling and making second efforts which haven't been part of his makeup for 100 odd games.
When he plays better he'll get a game. He needs to show more versatility as the game is moving past one trick ponies.
Hopefully for us he does this as we've invested a fair bit - 3 years!
There's nothing wrong with being an outside midfielder when you don't get the hardball so long as you run hard and hit targets, arguably this is Stanton's role. There's nothing wrong with being a small forward who makes space for himself and isn't accountable so long as he makes every post a winner, arguably this is Williams' role.
rhysman
21 May 2010, 17:21
He was terible for 3 of the 4 senior games he played and has been OK for Bendigo in one game. Hardly the sort of stuff that will earn you a recall. A guy like him should be dominating for Bendigo for several matches and then he might be show. In any case, we should never have drafted him. A massive mistake.
He was terible for 3 of the 4 senior games he played and has been OK for Bendigo in one game. Hardly the sort of stuff that will earn you a recall. A guy like him should be dominating for Bendigo for several matches and then he might be show. In any case, we should never have drafted him. A massive mistake.
Mark Williams isn't the type that's going to kick 6 goals in a Bendigo game. He needs to be playing AFL.
Agree with you though, drafting him was a mistake.
For the record, we downgraded a pick for markwilliams, we didn't simply give up a pick.
We basically traded, Lovett and Nash and pick 42, for Williams, pick 24 and pick 33. Considering Lovett had to go, and Nash would have been delisted, it's hardly a massive drafting mistake. Carlisle was taken at pick 24, and compared that 8 before him only Ryan Bastinac has showed anything.
rhysman
21 May 2010, 18:07
I understand about the downgrade I just don't think we need him and shouldn't have drafted him. Lloyd wouldve been better value and he was already on our list FFS! Anyway he is gonna have to do something for bendigo otherwise he won't be getting back in the team.
I understand about the downgrade I just don't think we need him and shouldn't have drafted him. Lloyd wouldve been better value and he was already on our list FFS! Anyway he is gonna have to do something for bendigo otherwise he won't be getting back in the team.
Or he can take the Prismall way and get a AFL game without doing anything at Bendigo.
The whole team played substandard for 3 out of 4 of those games, so to expect a forward to play well when the rest of the team, in particular the midfield were poor is a bit rich.
That's a cop out in my opinion.
Part of being a viable option is to have an impact when it's tough, Williams failed to do that. We were very competitive for large chunks of those 3 mathces we lost, in fact we won the inside 50s in 2 of those 3 games, so he wasn't completely starved of opportunity. I don't think we were efficient enough going inside 50, but no forward can expect lace out paces all day.
Therein lies the problem with Williams. When the ball isn't being placed on his chest in a mountain of space, he doesn't offer that much. So in our side, he's a Full Forward that can't provide a contest; that isn't of much value.
He'll get another chance, but beforehand he's got to prove he can be a more multi-dimensional player for us.
rhysman
22 May 2010, 00:47
He isn't part of our future, we should never have drafted him. has many in front of him and they are all young and developing. Who's spot will he take?
Eleven 38
22 May 2010, 06:55
we should pick the best 22,
sure the guy can kick straight but he doesnt exactly help towards keeping the ball inside 50...
im happy with Hurley Gumby hille/ryder, monfries zaharakis davey lonergan and jetta at the moment!!
lonergan and jetta are the obvious ones to go out if they dont perform, but they are getting a chance at this week if they dont go any good and we lose this week williams will probably come back in!
I'm sure there is more to this.
Plenty of other players getting games without being conistent or having fantastic form at Bendigo.
leng jai
22 May 2010, 09:09
The last game Williams played he kicked 4 goals and if I recall correctly he was injured after that. Hes a new recruit playing with a new group of players. It takes time to gel in a new team's structure, and IMO he has barely been given that chance. Hes a proven performer and one of the best shots for goal in the league. He is definitely worth persevering with and at the moment, it feels like Knights isn't even trying. We gave him a 3 year contract and hes playing for Bendigo.
Prismall has been pathetic this year and done nothing to at Bendigo to get back in the side.
bombermick
22 May 2010, 09:45
If we were picking our best 22 he would be in the side. But I think Knights is sending him a message by playing him in the VFL. I believe he wants him to improve on his second efforts and his defensive play, the type that Zaka and Jetta offer. Hopefully he plays next week.
I respectfully disagree.
He doesn't keep his feet, which we definitely don't need in the forward line. He is often lazy also when he does not have the ball.
I would much prefer someone like Jetta in the team, whom may not kick as many goals and Willo, but sets up a hell of a lot more with his creativity, intensity and pressure.
stugots
22 May 2010, 10:47
dont need him, duno what all the fuss is about
plenty of younger players that should get a run before willo, his efforts when given a chance were mostly below par & not acceptable for a player of his age & experience
although finals are still a (rough) hope, the side is in development mode &, regardless of the rhetoric from coaches & the board, games need to be given to the younger players that deserve them
much rather see jetta et al in there for now
Duckworth
22 May 2010, 13:51
That's a cop out in my opinion.
Part of being a viable option is to have an impact when it's tough, Williams failed to do that. We were very competitive for large chunks of those 3 mathces we lost, in fact we won the inside 50s in 2 of those 3 games, so he wasn't completely starved of opportunity. I don't think we were efficient enough going inside 50, but no forward can expect lace out paces all day.
Therein lies the problem with Williams. When the ball isn't being placed on his chest in a mountain of space, he doesn't offer that much. So in our side, he's a Full Forward that can't provide a contest; that isn't of much value.
He'll get another chance, but beforehand he's got to prove he can be a more multi-dimensional player for us.
Great Post!
I also think that there is only room for 1 of Monfries and him in the same team.
The Kipster
22 May 2010, 13:59
Sorry to intrude Lads, but having seen him play for many years and watching him live for you guy's against Freo, this is my take -
A player like him finishes off so well, yet your players didn't look for him and don't look for him. When he was leading up players were kicking it over his head for goals (and may I say falling well short) or looking at other more difficult options...
Knights should be saying kick it to him on the lead at all costs...he rarely misses a shot on goal.....
all the best for the weekend :thumbsu:
loopy_cam
22 May 2010, 14:18
I think he's been harshly judged in his first few games considering he was playing on the oppositions best defender.
However, his form has clearly not warranted selestion in a side that's going very well at the moment. in fact, we have only made changes due to injury and suspension since the Hawthorn game. So unless we start playing shit, a forward gets injured, or he is tearing up in the VFL, he will stay at Bendigo.
eugene_tomas
22 May 2010, 19:15
he will be back hes getting touch back in vfl.. easily in our best 22
Williams will be back in the 22 soon enough. Lonergan is not a long term option imo. Neither is Jetta.
Think you might have jumped the gun a little on this one. Jetta has been magnificent since coming into the line up!
He was brilliant tonight. 2nd best after Hille for mine, but I stand by that comment that he is not a long term option.
Bombers36
27 May 2010, 16:47
Now this is getting ridiculous - not sure why he was recruited in the first place.
Cant understand why he doesnt get a game - at least have to give the guy a chance FFS.
Baffled :thumbsd:
Hodgepodge
27 May 2010, 16:51
I dare say that Williams is out of the side due to his lack of tackling pressure more than anything else.
Knights is big on improving his side's team defense atm, and Williams has never been one to chase.
Now this is getting ridiculous - not sure why he was recruited in the first place.
Cant understand why he doesnt get a game - at least have to give the guy a chance FFS.
Baffled :thumbsd:
Are you more upset about picking him up in general, or him not playing?
The Donners
27 May 2010, 17:02
I dare say that Williams is out of the side due to his lack of tackling pressure more than anything else.
Knights is big on improving his side's team defense atm, and Williams has never been one to chase.
Which begs the question why Knights picked him up in the first place, we knew exactly what we were getting! I was happy picking him up might I add, if for nothing else but his elite goal kicking skills, no other Essendon player has these skills.
The Donners
27 May 2010, 17:15
Are you more upset about picking him up in general, or him not playing?
Picking him up if they're not going to play him. He's not changed since he's been at Hawthorn so obviously they've changed their minds about wanting him. Another 2 years after this 1 to go. Good one! :thumbsd:
Hodgepodge
27 May 2010, 17:19
Which begs the question why Knights picked him up in the first place, we knew exactly what we were getting! I was happy picking him up might I add, if for nothing else but his elite goal kicking skills, no other Essendon player has these skills.
Knights' defensive bent is new-founded, so he didn't have it in mind when Williams was recruited. The last few rounds the Bombers have been No.1 in tackles or something like that.
I can't see Williams chasing and tackling, but that doesn't mean he won't make the team. You can probably afford a couple of lazy players.
bipolarbeaR
27 May 2010, 17:30
Which begs the question why Knights picked him up in the first place, we knew exactly what we were getting! I was happy picking him up might I add, if for nothing else but his elite goal kicking skills, no other Essendon player has these skills.
Hurley has the kicking skillz.
Also, I believe that being out of the squad for 6 weeks would make you tackle more, can you imagine how it would have felt to not be part of the team that beat St Kilda, being part of that buzz around the club? His desire at the moment would be peaking, which may cause him to apply pressure and stop being lazy. The coaching department are aware of this, will play vs Geelong.
leng jai
27 May 2010, 17:43
Prismall's tackling pressure is just as bad
bipolarbeaR
27 May 2010, 17:53
Prismall's tackling pressure is just as bad
You say tackling pressure like it's existant dude :D
Sorry to intrude Lads, but having seen him play for many years and watching him live for you guy's against Freo, this is my take -
A player like him finishes off so well, yet your players didn't look for him and don't look for him. When he was leading up players were kicking it over his head for goals (and may I say falling well short) or looking at other more difficult options...
Knights should be saying kick it to him on the lead at all costs...he rarely misses a shot on goal.....
all the best for the weekend :thumbsu:
That's put exactly as it is :thumbsu:
Ludwig van Bertstare
27 May 2010, 18:31
You say tackling pressure like it's existant dude :D
bipolarbeaR
If it didn't exist then we couldn't judge him on it !
bipolarbeaR
27 May 2010, 18:33
Am I in trouble RiG? only my mum uses my full name when she's angry!
Ludwig van Bertstare
27 May 2010, 18:36
Am I in trouble RiG? only my mum uses my full name when she's angry!
bipolarbeaR
You are not in trouble, I am just doing my best yaco impression !
Towno78
27 May 2010, 18:38
I was very happy when we picked up Willo in trade week, I thought (and still do) that he would be very dangerous for us, and would be a great mix with our young KPFs.
However, I don't understand why you'd specifically target an opposition player to bring in to the side, use a Rd 1 pick on him, and then not play him after 1 month of football.
Whilst I'm still happy he's at Essendon, if his ommission from the seniors continues much longer, I'm just going to be looking at players like McMillan-Pittard, Tapscott, Fyfe, Bastinac and wondering which of these fine young players could we have had developing in our side right now. It's just perplexing considering our youth focus over the past 2 years. :confused:
Pevers-Legend
27 May 2010, 20:47
I was very happy when we picked up Willo in trade week, I thought (and still do) that he would be very dangerous for us, and would be a great mix with our young KPFs.
However, I don't understand why you'd specifically target an opposition player to bring in to the side, use a Rd 1 pick on him, and then not play him after 1 month of football.
Whilst I'm still happy he's at Essendon, if his ommission from the seniors continues much longer, I'm just going to be looking at players like McMillan-Pittard, Tapscott, Fyfe, Bastinac and wondering which of these fine young players could we have had developing in our side right now. It's just perplexing considering our youth focus over the past 2 years. :confused:
x2
I am wondering if he will come in about midway through the year - when the younger guys slow a bit. His experienced head will be invaluable IMO.
Ben the Gooner
27 May 2010, 20:53
Now this is getting ridiculous
Why would you change our forward structure which is working so well in order to bring Williams in?
bipolarbeaR
27 May 2010, 22:09
bipolarbeaR
You are not in trouble, I am just doing my best yaco impression !
Ryder Is God
I see what you did there sir ;)
The Fact
27 May 2010, 22:23
Why would you change our forward structure which is working so well in order to bring Williams in?
Because ............ Well because.......... We used a first round pick on him! Agreed no point in bringing him in at the moment when the forward line finally looks like it might start working
I was very happy when we picked up Willo in trade week, I thought (and still do) that he would be very dangerous for us, and would be a great mix with our young KPFs.
However, I don't understand why you'd specifically target an opposition player to bring in to the side, use a Rd 1 pick on him, and then not play him after 1 month of football.
Whilst I'm still happy he's at Essendon, if his ommission from the seniors continues much longer, I'm just going to be looking at players like McMillan-Pittard, Tapscott, Fyfe, Bastinac and wondering which of these fine young players could we have had developing in our side right now. It's just perplexing considering our youth focus over the past 2 years. :confused:
Just so long as you remember that we got Carlisle out of the deal as well.
Jonesy1987
28 May 2010, 02:41
If Williams doesn't want to chase, tackle and earn his own ball, I'm happy to write it off as a loss and move on with it.
The Donners
28 May 2010, 07:25
Why would you change our forward structure which is working so well in order to bring Williams in?
So we could've beaten the Power? Whoops, too late. Had Williams been playing we would've beaten the Power, imho.
There's a question I have for you and you can read between the lines, why would you change our defensive structure which is working well in order to bring x in? :p
Bombers36
28 May 2010, 09:12
Picking him up if they're not going to play him. He's not changed since he's been at Hawthorn so obviously they've changed their minds about wanting him. Another 2 years after this 1 to go. Good one! :thumbsd:
this - they knew what they were getting when they recruited him, gave him 3 years, and arent playing him. Seems like a huge waste of resources and we would have been much better of keeping our draft pick and investing $$ elsewhere....
Ben the Gooner
28 May 2010, 09:40
So we could've beaten the Power? Whoops, too late. Had Williams been playing we would've beaten the Power, imho.
There's a question I have for you and you can read between the lines, why would you change our defensive structure which is working well in order to bring x in? :p
Smartarse ;)
Short answer is I don't think it is working well - c.f. Dempsey playing third tall and Atkinson playing defence.
Long answer is for another thread.
Re the Port game, I think that wasn't a forwardline issue, but a defensive one. Lonergan was beaten in the first quarter, but kept Chornes quiet after that, and he's the one who I think will eventually come out (no homo) for Williams. The game was lost because a few players made some fundamental defensive instinct mistakes, and cost us cheap goals.
Boucks09
28 May 2010, 11:49
At the start of the season a lot of people who have seen Williams play and train were stating that they would be pleased to get 15 games out of him this season. That is still very much on the cards.
He has been in the side early and now been made to earn his spot back (whilst also having virtually 3 weeks off to freshen up). He WILL be playing a big part in our side in the 2nd half of the season.
It is unrealistic to expect the likes of Gumbleton, Hurley, Zaharakis to continue to be the main stays up forward for the entire 2010 season. All 3 will no doubt begin to fatigue in the 2nd half of the season in which case we will introduce the likes of Williams and Neagle who will be primed and ready to fire.
Williams is also a big game player, so when the crunch arrives at the business end of the season, hopefully he is up and firing and giving us the X Factor to make the finals (and perhaps win one).
rioli brownlow
28 May 2010, 11:54
At the start of the season a lot of people who have seen Williams play and train were stating that they would be pleased to get 15 games out of him this season. That is still very much on the cards.
He has been in the side early and now been made to earn his spot back (whilst also having virtually 3 weeks off to freshen up). He WILL be playing a big part in our side in the 2nd half of the season.
It is unrealistic to expect the likes of Gumbleton, Hurley, Zaharakis to continue to be the main stays up forward for the entire 2010 season. All 3 will no doubt begin to fatigue in the 2nd half of the season in which case we will introduce the likes of Williams and Neagle who will be primed and ready to fire.
Williams is also a big game player, so when the crunch arrives at the business end of the season, hopefully he is up and firing and giving us the X Factor to make the finals (and perhaps win one).
don't be suprised if he plays tonite.....
Slattery_20
28 May 2010, 11:54
treat em mean, keep em keen.