Round 12: Geelong vs Fremantle [Archive]

ScouseCat

9 Jun 2003, 22:28

After easilly beating Carlton at Telstra Dome on the weekend, Geelong faces the improved Fremantle Dockers at Subiaco on Saturday night.

Fremantle have really improved this season, winning 7 of their 11 matches so far. Last week, the Dockers 5 game winning streak came to an end at the hands of Port Power, however returning to Subiaco this week to take on Geelong, they will be looking to continue their good form at home. Geelong on the other hand will be keen to record their 4th win of the season and move further away from the dreaded wooden spoon position.

Last time the Dockers and Cats played, Fremantle ran out comfortable 45 point winners at Subiaco, however overall Geelong has a very good record against Fremantle.

Darren Milburn is one player to watch on the weekend. Milburn was one of our best players against Carlton as he racked up over 20 possessions, and will be keen to continue on this good form at Subiaco this week.

Ben Graham is also one to keep an eye on this weekend. Graham was fantastic at centre half back on the weekend against Carlton, a welcome return to form for the former Cats skipper who had struggled for much of the season so far. Graham is a key to our side... if he plays well, the Cats usually play well.

Will Slade is another player worth keeping an eye on this season. Slade played his best game for the club last week and looks to have lots of potential. Slade is also one of our tougher young players, despite what a certain ex-Hawthorn champion player now in the media thinks!!

It is never easy to travel over to Subiaco and come away with the 4 points, especially with the Eagles and Dockers playing good football. However, Geelong has a reasonably good record over there, so we aren't without a chance in this game.

At least there's one good thing about having to play at Subiaco this week... we have 2 whole weeks to recover for the next game against Essendon, therefore the Subiaco curse will miss us this time. :D

Go Cats!!

JUBJUB

10 Jun 2003, 00:20

Kelly should come straight back in for Charlie.

ScouseCat

10 Jun 2003, 00:27

Originally posted by JUBJUB
Kelly should come straight back in for Charlie.

You would think so, although there could still be a couple of nervous players waiting for the all clear from the video review. (Brenton Sanderson;))

Kenny_01

10 Jun 2003, 05:33

Should be a top game. I'd be surpised if we win by more than 5 goals. I'm tipping a 3 goal win.

Fall Out Boy

10 Jun 2003, 10:19

How condescending Kenny ;)

But seriously, i can't see us winning unless we match your mdfield, play Medhurst tightly and don't allow your running defenders any room.

Looking forward to the ruck contest. A one-legged King will make it a very even matchup against Simmonds.

Kenny_01

10 Jun 2003, 14:11

Yeah, we always seem to struggle against King. We'll probably bring back Sandilands to give Simmonds some help.

Even last year, he was pretty influential. He's one we have to stop, along with Corey, Chapman, Ablett, etc. I think we're definitely stronger up forward and down back, but Geelong could outplay us in the middle, especially at stoppages. And it's a night game which I think will probably suit Geelong.

Fall Out Boy

10 Jun 2003, 14:30

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Yeah, we always seem to struggle against King. We'll probably bring back Sandilands to give Simmonds some help.

Even last year, he was pretty influential. He's one we have to stop, along with Corey, Chapman, Ablett, etc.

This time round we also have a backup, Unco Chambers.

He's quite a good little ruckman who will hopefully be able to give Kingy a chop out when needed (Simmonds will run King around).

Originally posted by Kenny_01
I think we're definitely stronger up forward and down back, but Geelong could outplay us in the middle, especially at stoppages. And it's a night game which I think will probably suit Geelong.

I wouldn't be underestimating our backline. There aren't many better combinations then Scarlett and Harley.

Freo are clearly the better team, but i wouldn't swap key defenders.

Unwritten_Law

10 Jun 2003, 15:13

Originally posted by ScouseCat
Last time the Dockers and Cats played, Fremantle ran out comfortable 45 point winners at Subiaco, however overall Geelong has a very good record against Fremantle.

Everyone would have a good record against Fremantle ;)

Geelong *cough* by 15 points

Kenny_01

10 Jun 2003, 15:15

Yeah, Chambers has been good.

Nah I'm not underestimating them. Scarlett was in my AA side and Harley has been pretty good since returning. Scarlett didn't have the greatest start to the year but over the last 3 or 4 weeks, he has been awesome.

McPharlin is going to play his first game of the season I have a feeling he'll be playing up forward. Parker is returning for us as well. We'll still be missing Hayden and Farmer. Any of your boys have injuries from the weekend?

ScouseCat

10 Jun 2003, 16:30

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Any of your boys have injuries from the weekend?

As far as I know, Geelong escaped any serious injuries from the weekend's game against Carlton. James Kelly was a late withdrawal due to a virus, however he should be ok for this week.

Fall Out Boy

10 Jun 2003, 16:57

Originally posted by Kenny_01
Any of your boys have injuries from the weekend?

We have almost a complete list to pick from.

Only one out is Josh Hunt.

ScouseCat

11 Jun 2003, 14:23

I reckon the way to slow down and beat the Dockers this week is to take a more physical approach to the game. We need to test out a couple of their lighter, less experienced players and see whether they can handle it or not. Perhaps Chapman, Mooney, Milburn and Scarlett could lead the way in this regard, fairly of course.

We have nothing to lose, but we can't allow Fremantle to run us off our feet and do what they like over there!!

Thoughts??

Fall Out Boy

11 Jun 2003, 14:54

Sound strategy Darren, although they do have a couple of tough nuts in the midfield.

Both Cook and McManus are as hard as anyone at the ball.

We could try to physically intimidate their young defenders though. Guys like Polak and Haddrill could be unsettled by a bit of rough stuff, provided it was done in the correct manner.

Kenny_01

11 Jun 2003, 15:41

Polak and Woods maybe but Haddrill is as tough as they come. I don't think it would unsettle him.

Fall Out Boy

11 Jun 2003, 17:05

Having Gumby bearing down on you would scare most.

Sadly, it's the only thing he's good at.

Catman

12 Jun 2003, 00:46

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Having Gumby bearing down on you would scare most.

Sadly, it's the only thing he's good at.

The only think that would save him from the axe is the fact that he can scare any footballer sh.tless.

He was better last week, he needs to replicate that effort this week but add some goals to his game. If he can kick 3-4 and pick up 15 touches he would have done extremely well.

Fall Out Boy

12 Jun 2003, 07:41

Originally posted by Catman
The only think that would save him from the axe is the fact that he can scare any footballer sh.tless.

Another thing that could save him is the fact that Bomber Thompson simply adores him.

Must be some explanation for his continual selection.

ScouseCat

12 Jun 2003, 08:58

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Another thing that could save him is the fact that Bomber Thompson simply adores him.

Must be some explanation for his continual selection.

I think Mark Thompson needs to continue to give Cameron Mooney a set task every week to keep Mooney's mind on what he has to do. Last week, his job was to keep Mick Martyn away from the contests and I thought he did that really well after half time. He missed a couple of shots running into an open goal which were disappointing, but at least he was getting the ball.

you_idiot

12 Jun 2003, 14:33

Originally posted by ScouseCat
I think Mark Thompson needs to continue to give Cameron Mooney a set task every week to keep Mooney's mind on what he has to do. Last week, his job was to keep Mick Martyn away from the contests and I thought he did that really well after half time. He missed a couple of shots running into an open goal which were disappointing, but at least he was getting the ball.

On top of that, he also took some good marks. But after missing his first two cracks at goal in the first quarter, the first two shots Geelong had against Carlton, in fact, one could tell that it was going to be another one of those days for Cam Mooney.

But to build on the positives-- such as taking marks in good positions-- is what Mooney will have to do going into the game at Subiaco on Saturday. If he can convert those marks into goals, then that will be a bonus for the team's overall performance.

If we can get both Kingsley and Mooney showing up with their goal-kicking boots on, and on straight, in the same game and at the same time, the Cats could be dangerous.

Furthermore, Peter Riccardi and Darren Milburn each had break-through games against the Blues, their bests of the season so far, and I would expect them to do the same to build on those performances against the Dockers.

Jim Boy

12 Jun 2003, 17:08

Mooney's other role is simply making it that much harder for the opposition to match up, which hopefully means that either himself or Kingsley kick a few. Anyway we simply don't have any option.

As for this weekend, Freo will deservedly start as favourites, but this weekend will be a major danger for them. Geelong is playing with a bit of form at the moment, partly because they don't have a burden of expectation. We're coming off a good win, good because we played four quarters and far superior to last years insipid effort. Freo's confidence will have been eroded a little from last week. Subiaco doesn't really hold too many fears for Geelong, it's certainly not AAMI stadium. If Freo lose on Saturday, it will be a major blow psychologically. I'm tipping Geelong by 15 points, but then I am a Geelong supporter.

Tyler Durden

12 Jun 2003, 17:09

From Kent, Cameron & Matt's perspective, it's BLOODY HARD to take a mark when you have hacks like Clarke just bombing it up in the air, expecting you to wrestle and pull in a contested mark.

If you had a look over the course of the season, the amount of times the ball has been:
a) kicked over a leading players head,
b) kicked short in front of a leading 190+cm player,
c) kicked high in the air to a one on one situation, or just
d) blazed away to a 1 on 3 defender situation
The results would be astounding.

There's no point booing or berating Mooney over it, it's not his doing. You wouldn't have booed Ablett, Stoneham, Brownless et al if it were them... Half the reason why those guys kicked so many goals was due to Bairstow, Couch, Hocking, Pickering etc. Now it's Corey (getting better), Enright (still blazes away around corners), Ling (good, not great), Clarke (just f**ing useless) etc.

Hell, even The Great Man would struggle to kick 50 a year with this type of delivery.

Fall Out Boy

12 Jun 2003, 18:16

So you're happy with Gumby's performance this year, Tyler?

Tyler Durden

12 Jun 2003, 18:42

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
So you're happy with Gumby's performance this year, Tyler?

No, but I'm only happy with five players' performance this year, and even those have been up and down:
- Matthew Scarlett (had a few off weeks at the start)
- Gary Ablett (has been consistent, with a few stand out games)
- Joel Corey (been great, but has gone missing last few weeks)
- Steven King (fantastic despite injury)
- Paul Chambers (has a real go, and when he develops will be servicable)

Cameron's role is simple, like Jonathon Brown of Brisbane. He has a few major tasks, some of which he is doing just OK at, some need vast improvement. I see them as:
- creating a strong contest, whether it be marking, on the ground or chasing
- clearing a path for the onballers to run through
- taking strong marks, not necessarily in a pack, but one on one
- putting a body on his opponent, and any one else in his area
- kicking the easy goals

He's never going to be more than a 40+ goal a year guy, but he's work from 40m-75m out is always understated. At the club, he is rated as the best opposite foot kick, and clearly the stongest. On his day, he would also be the strongest mark.

The following has happened this year, and it seems he is the scapegoat for the team:
- total lack of forward set up; players leads crossing over; poor coaching
- delivery into forward line nothing short of disgraceful
- poor accuracy on goal
- lack of form by small forwards (except Ablett)
- KK's lack of form, best defender on Mooney

If you look at last years big victories, i.e Collingwood & Essendon, Cameron was the player that dominated the forward line and ignited victory. His leads were strong and uninterupted, the passes to him were low, hard, accurate & fast, he created goals for crumbers by making the contest.

This year, unfortunately, he hasn't taken a game by the scruff of the neck yet, but he cannot be solely to blame for this. Yes, his form is down, but he's just as likely to coume out and kick 5 goals this week. Vs Carlton, he still took 7 marks and had 15 touches, and if he had kicked straight, would have had at least 3 goals. Maybe the pressure would be off then...

Despite his poor form, I still believe he's having better years than the likes of Sanderson, Wojcinski, McCarthy, Johnson, Clarke, Bartel, Kelly, Grgic, the Johnsons etc. I hope he comes good soon, along with all the others, so that this year isn't a total waste.

Fall Out Boy

12 Jun 2003, 19:38

Originally posted by Tyler Durden

I see them as:
- creating a strong contest, whether it be marking, on the ground or chasing
- clearing a path for the onballers to run through
- taking strong marks, not necessarily in a pack, but one on one
- putting a body on his opponent, and any one else in his area
- kicking the easy goals

Well, of those, i'd give him a pass mark on only one, with another borderline.

1) He hasn't created a strong contest for a while. He has been quite lazy in parts this season. Failing to chase and failing to lead.

2) This is the borderline case. When playing well, he does clear a path for the smaller guys.

3) His marking stats are shocking, as are his contested marking stats. 28 marks in 8 games isn't good enough.

4) He does this well, most of the time.

5) Doesn't kick enough goals, and often misses the very easy ones. With Gumby you either get 2 goals, or nothing, which isn't really good enough at this level.

KiNgCliVe26

12 Jun 2003, 20:04

Freo will do it for clive if he plays

If he doesn't Geelong have a real good chance of winning.

Fall Out Boy

12 Jun 2003, 20:52

Originally posted by KiNgCliVe26
Freo will do it for clive if he plays

Missed out, only an emergency.

FREMANTLE

Backs: A. Grover R. Haddrill L. McPharlin
Half Backs: J. Walker G. Polak S. Thornton
Centre: S. McManus P. Hasleby D. Woods
Half Forwards: T. Cook J. Longmuir M. Carr
Forwards: S. Koops T. Croad P. Medhurst
Followers: M. Pavlich, P. Bell, T. Simmonds
Interchange: B. Schammer, A. Siegert, A. Sandilands, B. Cunningham
Emergency: C. Waterhouse, D. Haines, T. Longmuir

GEELONG FC

Backs: P. Chambers M. Scarlett B. Sanderson
Half Backs: J. Rooke T. Harley W. Slade
Centre: P. Riccardi C. Enright D. Wojcinski
Half Forwards: A. Lord B. Graham P. Chapman
Forwards: G. Ablett C. Mooney K. Kingsley
Followers: S. King, J. Corey, C. Ling
Interchange: D. Milburn, M. McCarthy, D. Spriggs, J. Kelly

Kenny_01

12 Jun 2003, 21:18

We have a better chance of winning now that Clive isn't playing.

ScouseCat

12 Jun 2003, 22:34

Freo Hitman

12 Jun 2003, 23:29

Good Luck to Geelong this week. This game is the home game I have felt least comfortable about all season.

Malarkey05

13 Jun 2003, 00:04

Originally posted by Tyler Durden

- total lack of forward set up; players leads crossing over; poor coaching

There were some good signs in the 2nd half against Carlton in terms of our forward setup. Mooney started to move up the ground a bit and the small forwards stayed wide which allowed Kingsley space to lead in to up the corridor. Kingsley and to some extend Riccardi were definitely directing traffic to try and make this happen. He is actually pretty quick on the lead.

you_idiot

13 Jun 2003, 01:01

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
GEELONG FC

Backs: P. Chambers M. Scarlett B. Sanderson
Half Backs: J. Rooke T. Harley W. Slade
Centre: P. Riccardi C. Enright D. Wojcinski
Half Forwards: A. Lord B. Graham P. Chapman
Forwards: G. Ablett C. Mooney K. Kingsley
Followers: S. King, J. Corey, C. Ling
Interchange: D. Milburn, M. McCarthy, D. Spriggs, J. Kelly

In: Kelly
Out: Gardiner

So, essentially, it's an unchanged squad from the one that beat Carlton by 40 points last weekend.

With that kind of momentum in hand, I've got to like our chances an awful lot against Fremantle away.

That, and it'll be interesting to see how well Freo themselves recover from their own heavy defeat at the hands of Port Adelaide last weekend.

From the looks of it, could be two teams heading in opposite directions, from the standpoint of sheer momentum carrying over...

Tyler Durden

13 Jun 2003, 10:23

Originally posted by you_idiot
In: Kelly
Out: Gardiner

So, essentially, it's an unchanged squad from the one that beat Carlton by 40 points last weekend.

Essentially, it's not. Did you see last weeks game? Kelly didn't play, due to a virus, Gardiner played, despite already playing in the VFL on Saturday.

Tyler Durden

13 Jun 2003, 10:32

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Well, of those, i'd give him a pass mark on only one, with another borderline.

1) He hasn't created a strong contest for a while. He has been quite lazy in parts this season. Failing to chase and failing to lead.

2) This is the borderline case. When playing well, he does clear a path for the smaller guys.

3) His marking stats are shocking, as are his contested marking stats. 28 marks in 8 games isn't good enough.

4) He does this well, most of the time.

5) Doesn't kick enough goals, and often misses the very easy ones. With Gumby you either get 2 goals, or nothing, which isn't really good enough at this level.

Agreed on most of that...
1) Yes, he has been lacking fitness. Trained around 4 times in the first 6 weeks. They still picked him, though...

2) This does happen when we play well, as the smaller guys are pushing forward, instead of being flat footed.

3) His marking is poor this year, but I blame that on the circumstance. The delivery has been worse than some of the kicks into the back of the ute at KP a few years ago.

4) Yep. Has a strong presence.

5) He does miss the easy ones, and this is why he is maligned. If he kicked them, the pressure would be off, for sure.

Jonno Brown averages less than 1 goal a game, yet he's lauded as one of the best in the game. I guess that's what success does to a player - raises their profile. If he played for the WB, they'd be booing him off the ground.

So, phat, who are your top 5 players this year?

Unwritten_Law

13 Jun 2003, 11:45

Fall Out Boy

13 Jun 2003, 11:50

Originally posted by Tyler Durden

So, phat, who are your top 5 players this year?

Matthew Scarlett
Gary Ablett Jnr.
Joel Corey (still not happy with his inconsistencies)
Steven King (struggling, but still has an influence)
Jarad Rooke

you_idiot

13 Jun 2003, 11:56

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
Essentially, it's not. Did you see last weeks game? Kelly didn't play, due to a virus, Gardiner played, despite already playing in the VFL on Saturday.

Yes, I was at last week's game. I don't think Kelly would have missed, if it wasn't for the bug, and he and Gardiner are pretty much interchangeable, due to their roles and positions (albeit that I'd rather have Kelly than Gardiner, if I had my druthers).

Regardless, the rest of the squad's intact, and that's certainly good news, with no major changes.

Tyler Durden

13 Jun 2003, 13:12

Originally posted by you_idiot
Yes, I was at last week's game. I don't think Kelly would have missed, if it wasn't for the bug, and he and Gardiner are pretty much interchangeable, due to their roles and positions (albeit that I'd rather have Kelly than Gardiner, if I had my druthers).

Regardless, the rest of the squad's intact, and that's certainly good news, with no major changes.

Charlie is 3 inches taller and 18kg heavier and can be damaging up forward vs Kelly who is a silky midfielder. How, exactly, are they so similar?

you_idiot

13 Jun 2003, 13:20

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
Charlie is 3 inches taller and 18kg heavier and can be damaging up forward vs Kelly who is a silky midfielder. How, exactly, are they so similar?

Similar, but only in terms of influence-- which, as you noted, comes in different manners on the field.

But as I said, if I had to pick one over the other, I'd rather have Kelly than Gardiner. I think I'd rather have a midfielder who can create opportunities for the forwards, such as Kingsley and Mooney, among others.

If a forward doesn't get a sniff of the ball from anyone delivering it into the middle, then he can't impact the game, can he?

In any event, the nucleus of the team is intact from last week-- and I think Kelly will do fantastic things against Freo. Let's see him give the Dockers a bug, for a change. :D

Tyler Durden

13 Jun 2003, 13:32

Originally posted by you_idiot
Let's see him him the Dockers a bug, for a change. :D

Oh, ok? :confused:

Tyler Durden

13 Jun 2003, 13:36

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Matthew Scarlett
Gary Ablett Jnr.
Joel Corey (still not happy with his inconsistencies)
Steven King (struggling, but still has an influence)
Jarad Rooke

I still think Rooke has a hell of a long way to go. He'll be a champ if he continues his development.

His awareness of:
- where the ball is,
- his opponent is,
- his team mates are and
- where to stand at dead ball contests
all needs work, but I think he's more than capable.

(I'd also like to see him drop the ball on his boot a bit quicker as well, but now I'm just being picky)

you_idiot

13 Jun 2003, 13:38

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
Oh, ok? :confused:

Ummm, he had a virus. Let's see James Kelly affect the Dockers with his good play-- which will be his form of "a bug" to inflict upon the opposition this week. ;)

In any event, it's good to have him back in the lineup, even if he was only out for a week due to illness.

EDIT: Ah, now I see... double-word in the original post, which I'll go fix now. Should have read, Let's see him give the Dockers a bug, for a change. Apologies for the confusion.

Fall Out Boy

13 Jun 2003, 16:09

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
I still think Rooke has a hell of a long way to go. He'll be a champ if he continues his development.

His awareness of:
- where the ball is,
- his opponent is,
- his team mates are and
- where to stand at dead ball contests
all needs work, but I think he's more than capable.

(I'd also like to see him drop the ball on his boot a bit quicker as well, but now I'm just being picky)

All true.

I just love the way he goes about it. His work ethic, desire and attitude are something that all our youngsters should be following.

He's played some wonderful footy this year, but yes, there is plenty of scope.

Tyler Durden

13 Jun 2003, 16:14

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
All true.

I just love the way he goes about it. His work ethic, desire and attitude are something that all our youngsters should be following.

He's played some wonderful footy this year, but yes, there is plenty of scope.

Kinda a taller/faster version of Sando from 2000.

Catman

13 Jun 2003, 17:29

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
(I'd also like to see him drop the ball on his boot a bit quicker as well, but now I'm just being picky)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.

Tyler Durden

13 Jun 2003, 18:20

Originally posted by Catman
I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way.

How many bloody times does he have to be caught before he catches on to this? Another bad offender is Harley.

From the time they drop it, to the time they kick it seems like enough time to go line up for a pie, have a toilet stop and get back to your seat.

Catman

14 Jun 2003, 04:50

Originally posted by Tyler Durden
From the time they drop it, to the time they kick it seems like enough time to go line up for a pie, have a toilet stop and get back to your seat.

:D

you_idiot

14 Jun 2003, 19:17

For what it's worth, Jen and I did notice last week that our forwards are doing a much better job in their reflex actions.

That is, dropping ball to boot and snap-kicking the ball goalward a lot quicker than they have in the games before that.

I hope I'm not alone in that observation. :)

In any event, 90 minutes til the first bounce... we're brimming with great anticipation here!! :D

ScouseCat

14 Jun 2003, 22:00

Geelong down by only 11 points at half time, unlucky not to be in front but for a very ordinary decision paid against Kingsley after Ling kicked a goal. (which was disallowed)

Ben Graham went off early after a knock, we need to try to get him back on the ground to try and expose Fremantle's lack of height in defence.

We are still a chance, GO CATS!!

ScouseCat

14 Jun 2003, 23:36

Well, another week and another close loss in a game we weren't expected to win. The first 3 quarters were pretty ordinary but we showed some fight in the last quarter and started playing the sort of football we have to play for the rest of the season.

The umpiring was a disgrace. I reckon we were stiffed 5 goals tonight, 4 given to Fremantle and 1 to Ling which was disallowed. I guess you have to put up with that when you play interstate but it's still very frustrating to watch. Add to that, we were subjected to the pathetic, biased commentry of Tim Gossage, clearly the worst commentator on Fox Footy!!

There were a couple of positives to take from this match.... the return to form of Kingsley up forward with 5 goals and Spriggs in the middle, 20+ possessions... his best game for Geelong this year.

Anyway, the break should be good for us... time to look at where we're going and what we want to get out of the last 10 games this season.

Kenny_01

15 Jun 2003, 00:51

Bad luck guys, top effort from your club. Unlucky not to win. Anyway, posted my thoughts on the main board.

|D_J^B_J|

15 Jun 2003, 02:44

The Cats did play well for most of the night. They congested our free running style of play for most of the game and limited our run in the open spaces of the ground. I was expecting a close encounter and was happy to get away with the close win in the end.

Blaming the umpires is clutching at straws but from past experience I do know how tough it is to deal with a close loss.

It was pleasing to see Spriggs play well again after missing the whole of last year. Good luck for the rest of the season.

Kenny_01

15 Jun 2003, 03:09

Yep, thought Spriggs, Kingsley and Ling were terrific. Good to see Spriggs play well as well. I thought he was really struggling at the start of the year and questions probably would have been raised about his future after being dropped, but good to see him back in the side now and playing good footy.

I heard rumours last year that we actually might have tried to trade for him at the end of last season. Did anyone else hear them?

ScouseCat

15 Jun 2003, 03:47

Originally posted by |D_J^B_J|
Blaming the umpires is clutching at straws but from past experience I do know how tough it is to deal with a close loss.

I am fine with my team losing, however when the umpires spoil what was a good game just so they can feel they've been an important part of the game, well that's another story.

|D_J^B_J|

15 Jun 2003, 03:56

Originally posted by ScouseCat
I am fine with my team losing, however when the umpires spoil what was a good game just so they can feel they've been an important part of the game, well that's another story.

I agree the umpiring was of a low standard but do you really believe it was done on purpose so that they could feel they were an "important part of the game"?

Nor do I believe that umpiring was the reason for us winning. You had the opportunity to take the lead in the final quarter but you didn't, and we eventually withstood the challenge.

It was disappointed to read that several of you fellow posters blamed the umpires for Geelong's loss. If you honestly believed that the umpires cost you the game, that's fine, that's your opinion, but it is a real copout and a far cry from being gracious in defeat.

ScouseCat

15 Jun 2003, 04:17

Originally posted by |D_J^B_J|
I agree the umpiring was of a low standard but do you really believe it was done on purpose so that they could feel they were an "important part of the game"?

Nor do I believe that umpiring was the reason for us winning. You had the opportunity to take the lead in the final quarter but you didn't, and we eventually withstood the challenge.

It was disappointed to read that several of you fellow posters blamed the umpires for Geelong's loss. If you honestly believed that the umpires cost you the game, that's fine, that's your opinion, but it is a real copout and a far cry from being gracious in defeat.

Since when have I blamed the umpires for Geelong losing the game?? I have said that the umpiring was a disgrace but I stopped short of saying they cost us the game. I also said they stiffed us on 5 goals, the Ling goal which was wrongly disallowed and 4 which Fremantle got from either non-decisions or poor decisions. Who knows what could have happened if those decisions went our way, but they didn't and we lost the game.

As for being gracious in defeat, I made the effort to congratulate your team on their win on the Fremantle board... if that's not gracious then I don't know what is.

Good luck for the rest of the season and hopefully, your first finals campaign in September.

|D_J^B_J|

15 Jun 2003, 04:46

Originally posted by ScouseCat
Since when have I blamed the umpires for Geelong losing the game?? I have said that the umpiring was a disgrace but I stopped short of saying they cost us the game. I also said they stiffed us on 5 goals, the Ling goal which was wrongly disallowed and 4 which Fremantle got from either non-decisions or poor decisions. Who knows what could have happened if those decisions went our way, but they didn't and we lost the game.

As for being gracious in defeat, I made the effort to congratulate your team on their win on the Fremantle board... if that's not gracious then I don't know what is.

Fair enough. I wasn't referring to you when I said I was disappointed with some Cat's supporters blaming the umpires for the loss, I was mainly referring to Catman...

As for your comments regarding Freo supporters booing Ling on the main board; there was a lot of niggling going on throughout the game and a lot of it wasn't caught on camera. I wasn't booing Ling but I didn't have a problem with fellow supporters around me booing him. If Carr and Ling were niggling each other throughout the game at Kardinya Park, I'm sure you wouldn't have a problem with fellow supporters booing Carr.

As for the umpiring decisions you mentioned on the main board, Harley was in front of Longmuir and should have been paid the mark. The incorrect decision was made. Only a point resulted though so the result was fairly insignificant.

As for "Scarlett's mark," he didn't really seem to have control of the ball and IMO the correct decision was made there.

Pavlich taking the ball out of the ruck resulting in a goal for us was not holding the ball. He was initially bumped by Scarlett IIRC and then handballed the ball to McManus as he was grabbed by Enright, meaning the correct decision was made. Had Scarlett made a tackle instead of a bump, it may have been a little different.

I won't comment on Haddrill being shepherded off the ball from Ling's kick on goal as I was sitting at the opposite end of the ground and haven't seen the whole reply yet. Kingsley didn't seem to remonstrate with the umpire though.

There were also many illegal disposals from tackles that were missed throughout the game, going both ways.

Fall Out Boy

15 Jun 2003, 10:21

Originally posted by |D_J^B_J|

Blaming the umpires is clutching at straws but from past experience I do know how tough it is to deal with a close loss.

I never blame the umpires for a loss, but it was plain for all to see that we were completely and utterly stiffed.

That's life, but to ignore the treatment from the umpires is folly.

JUBJUB

15 Jun 2003, 14:27

Catman

15 Jun 2003, 15:35

Originally posted by |D_J^B_J|
Fair enough. I wasn't referring to you when I said I was disappointed with some Cat's supporters blaming the umpires for the loss, I was mainly referring to Catman...

Single me out why don't you. I have been one of many criticising the umpires.

I have never said they cost us the game. Find a post where I said that. What I said was that their incompetence hampered our chances of winning.

JUBS, I need a couple more grand, got any spare cash lying around? :D :p

|D_J^B_J|

15 Jun 2003, 17:21

Originally posted by Catman (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71823&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)
This prick is doing one hell of a job on us. We should be in front at half time but because of this jerks incompetence we are 11pts behind.

Originally posted by Catman (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71831)
But for one thing, Fremantle are definitely not Top 8 material. An armchair ride from the umpires and some Geelong errors got them over the line.

If that's not blaming the umpires for the loss, then what is?

Catman

15 Jun 2003, 23:17

First comment was made about the half time scores. Last time I checked, footy was a four quarter game, not two.

I forgot about that last statement. :o

But I'm not going to retract it. We clearly were harshly treated by the umpires but our own errors cost us well. I have not solely blamed the loss on the umpires.

KiNgCliVe26

16 Jun 2003, 03:01

Originally Posted by Kenny_01
We have a better chance of winning now that Clive isn't playing.

We would've won by more if CLIVE played.

Murph

16 Jun 2003, 10:17

While some of the umpiring was ordinary, the fact of the matter is we fought back to be only 3 points down with 12 minutes to play.

Why Croad was not manned up when everyone knows he can kick long is beyond me. That cost us one goal.

Medhurst was WIDE open to accept the pass and kick the winning goal. Whoever his opponent was, was not even in the defensive 50 when the mark was taken.

These were the two costly mistakes which cost us the game, not the umnpires.

Longmuir was not even good enough to kick the goal after getting the biggest gift of a mark ever.:D

Fall Out Boy

16 Jun 2003, 10:43

Originally posted by Murph

These were the two costly mistakes which cost us the game, not the umnpires.

Spot on.

Whilst the umpiring was awful, blaming them for the loss is merely a cop out.

We must look within for reasons for the loss, rather then burying our head in the sand.

you_idiot

16 Jun 2003, 12:52

Originally posted by Catman
We clearly were harshly treated by the umpires but our own errors cost us well. I have not solely blamed the loss on the umpires.

True, to blame the umpies first and foremost, or just to blame them as the sole reason for the defeat, that would be truly myopic.

I said it on another thread, but if the Cats had only kicked the ball straighter in the third term when they had the momentum-- say, kicking 3.3 or 4.2 rather than the 1.5 that they actually did-- then they're in a prime position to win the game, or at least have Fremantle come to them and chase the game. It's as simple as that...

goaldrush

16 Jun 2003, 12:57

At least Geelong were competitive which was great.

ScouseCat

16 Jun 2003, 14:28

Originally posted by phatandphreaky
Whilst the umpiring was awful, blaming them for the loss is merely a cop out.

One can never say what might have happened if Geelong weren't stiffed by the umpires... we still may have lost the game, we may not, noone will ever know.

KiNgCliVe26

16 Jun 2003, 20:12

Originally Posted by Goaldrush
At least Geelong were competitive which was great.

Freo were competitive in 2001 and where did that get us? Besides putting us in a position to trade MCpharlin, Croad to our club and pick up GRAHAM POLAK.

Murph

18 Jun 2003, 15:05

Originally posted by Monday Expert @ Cats Claw
According to Geishen in the Hun today, the umpire made the correct decision regarding the Ling disallowed goal.
Kingsley was holding the man with both hands, and it is a free kick every time according to the guru.

If only it was a free kick everytime, Kingsley would have kicked 8-9 on the weekend.

Is being dry rooted by your opponent a 50 metre penalty? Kingsley would have got a few of them too

Pealer:D

Spoken like a true wordsmith