View Full Version : James Fantasia
Is James Fantasia doing a good job for us?
I don't know exactly when he started with us but he has certainly been around for quote a while.
I personally think it is time for a change because our drafting has not really been a strong point for us for quite a while.
There have been a few good ones come through such as John**** and Stenglein but in the whole we don't seem to take full advantage of the draft. Others that we have drafted successfully like Ladhams and Begley were taken from other clubs after everyone had seen what they could do anyway.
Someone that was very good in the job would give more confidence to the coaching staff to actually keep and use our high draft picks instead of trading them away.
To be honest our habit of trading away early draft picks has not helped James in the drafting side of things.
Anguin should have been a gun, not a head case.
Reilly appears to have the goods, although I'm not sure about draft pick 12 type goods.
Hard to say really. I'd say he's been OK without being brilliant.
I don't blame him for Angwin. What I saw of Angwin he was exactly what we needed (and now still do need) and could've been a superstar. Reilly looks the goods.
But there are a lot of players we've taken with picks in the teens and twenties that have really disappointed. And they aren't players in positions that we need. We haven't had decent key position players come through for a long time.
The criticism I have does really deserve to be spread onto the whole football department too, because as you say, we keep trading away a lot of our high picks.
Mong
Originally posted by Mong
But there are a lot of players we've taken with picks in the teens and twenties that have really disappointed. And they aren't players in positions that we need. We haven't had decent key position players come through for a long time.
Mong
Which players in particular Mong?
Over the years he's had some great success with late draft picks but his early round picks have not been as nearly as successful,
Same with the player trades some have worked some have not, the only criticism i have had over the years in our recruiting is a lack of quick hard & under type players & possibly giving 1 sanfl club a green light at the draft table,
Off the top of my head I can name (and there's probably more) -
Picioane
Eccles
Gallagher
Handby
The jury is still out on -
Jericho (early I know but SANFL reserves is the best he can manage)
Smith
McGregor is a good player and I am reasonably happy with but could we have done better?
Burton - not a criticism because he is a very good player but we got him as a forward because we needed one and now all we want to do is play him in the midfield. Should we have taken a true forward?
For some lower picks -
Shirley (twice!.... surely once is bad enough)
Cicollela
Atkinson
Richardson - probably the only one that was worth the risk considering he is a forward
And last year we kept hearing that Mattner, Bock and Rutten would've been top 20 picks. Surely that was a big exaggeration. I really hope we wouldn't picked them with picks that high.
Reilly is the only top 20 that we've taken that I can think of that has actually worked out. And he has only played 5 or 6 games so far.
Maybe I'm being harsh but I can't think of too many success stories out of players recruited as teenagers. Reilly, Stenglein, and Joh**** the only ones I can think of in recent years.
Unfortunately, a lot of our drafting and trades have been aimed at plugging holes.
Look at Richardson, Schell, Fitzgerald, and for that matter Carey and Burns.
Some of this has been successful such as Stevens and Welsh and maybe Ladhams, but others have been far less so.
Perhaps the problems go further back than Fantasia, ie why are these holes their in the first place?
I would agree with that napsyd. We do seem to be reactive rather than proactive.
dyertribe
12 Jun 2003, 16:47
The summer after the second Premiership was the killer.
Instead of being ultra-aggressive in trying to lure some top native SA talent home in a bid for the threepeat we were favourites for, all we did was draft GARBAGE from the SANFL - the majority of which has since been delisted and the ones that are still there are servicable to good at best.
Stiffy_18
12 Jun 2003, 20:28
The funny thing about Fantasia is that he does well with late picks and Rookie list but stuffs up with higher picks. The likes of McGregor (75), Johncock (67), Biglands (36), Doughty (rookie) etc are good players that were taken late in the draft or were rookie listed.
Mong the comment about Ladhams is a bit unfair. He never player AFL before he came to Adelaide and was injured most of the time in VFL. They wouldn't have seen him play all that much and he was taken with pick 22 by the Bombers. We got him via a pre-season draft and he was a bargain.
Reilly is definetly a top 10 material IMHO and we did well with him when we picked him with pick 12. Burton was pick 16 and was not a bad pick up. Eccels was pick 68, Smith (48) are what I consider later picks.
We have had a fair share of succes with recruiting as well, we got Johnson at pick 27 and Stenglein at pick 29.
Having said all that I think that our success rate has to improve with higer picks and our success rate in big man department is apauling. Mattner is driving me mad. Bock has really lost his form and is playing reserves while I believe that Rutten wouls have gone mid to late 1st round to mid 2nd round pick had he entered the draft.
I just hope we do not trade away 1st and 2nd round picks this time around unless its for a younster with plenty of promise. No one over 22 should be worth a 1st or 2nd round pick. Thats the phylosophy that I would apply this year. We need some youth with size and pace on our list.;)
McAlmanac
12 Jun 2003, 20:48
I'm sure Fantasia has absolutely no say over whether high draft picks get traded. He can only work with the selections he has. He also has to rely on other people - he can hardly see all prospects himself - and the final say would go with the coaching staff.
Mind you, I remember tuning into the draft one year and seeing Blighty, Bill Sanders, John Reid, Fantasia and John Girardi on the Crows table - you obviously needed a Woodville membership badge to get a seat.
MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl
12 Jun 2003, 21:43
lets hang James Fantasia!!! get real guys. He isn't the only person making the decisions. It is a department thing. By the way I love Ken McGregor and I am very happy he is playing at the Crows!!
k
xx
macca23
12 Jun 2003, 21:58
As I've said elsewhere the AFC has been hopeless at drafting big men. Most of the ones that we have are the result of trades.
As I posted elsewhere, this is where our current ruckmen and KPP's have come from
"Clarke (trade)
Biglands (draft after delisting by Port)
Carey (trade)
Stevens (trade)
Bassett (trade)
McGregor (draft)
As the only first time draftee, McGregor must feel the odd man out.
I won't bore you with the list of draft failures for both types by mentioning names such as Angwin, Handby, Smith, Balrajh Singh, Beinke, Herbert, Marsh, Golding, Downsborough, Gilligan, Hodges, Fernee etc etc. That's without mentioning trades such as Aaron Keating, Standfield etc.
It reads more like a "Who's who at the zoo" rather than a success story in drafting big men, doesn't it?? "
On the other side of the coin we have been very good at accumulating mid-fielders one way or another.
How much we make Fantasia accountable for our atrocious big man drafting record can only be linked to who makes the final decisions. That's where the buck should stop
Dyertribe was correct with his post too. Our lowest ebb ever in drafting was at the end of 1998. We drafted some fair old rubbish that year.
Macca19
12 Jun 2003, 21:59
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Mong the comment about Ladhams is a bit unfair. He never player AFL before he came to Adelaide and was injured most of the time in VFL. They wouldn't have seen him play all that much and he was taken with pick 22 by the Bombers. We got him via a pre-season draft and he was a bargain.
He played 19 games in the VFL in his first year at the Bombers - hardly spending most of hte time injured.
I reckon hes done ok for you guys. Not brilliant, not crap...but around average. Some duds, some good players. About normal.
Macca19
12 Jun 2003, 22:09
Originally posted by macca23
Dyertribe was correct with his post too. Our lowest ebb ever in drafting was at the end of 1998. We drafted some fair old rubbish that year.
I dont think you did that bad.
16 - Burton - good player but inconsistent. In your first 18
29 - Stenglien - good midfield/tagger. In your first 18.
32 - Gallagher - Started in a blaze of glory leaidng to praise such as future Brownlow winner and Captain. Ended up being the slowest footballer to have played at AFL level. Ive never seen a player take SO long to make a decision and think that noones gonna tackle him. Lost count how many holding the balls he gave up due to being so slow to make up his mind.
34 - Beinke - reasonable forward option. Was never gonna be a superstar.
48 - Herbert - Hack
63 - Kirey - Who??
75 - Mcgregor - good defender. Part of your first 18.
80 - Atkinson - Magarey winner from that year. Can see why you picked him up. Hack tho.
3 first 18 players from that lot and another who was part of your first 18 (Beinke).
Id say 99 you did worse. - Biglands, O'loughlin, S*itolella, Shirley, Singh, Shir. Only one of those part of your first 18.
Stiffy_18
12 Jun 2003, 22:10
Originally posted by Macca19
He played 19 games in the VFL in his first year at the Bombers - hardly spending most of hte time injured.
I reckon hes done ok for you guys. Not brilliant, not crap...but around average. Some duds, some good players. About normal. Ok. I am sure he spend majority of one season injured.:confused:
macca23
12 Jun 2003, 22:22
Originally posted by Macca19
Id say 99 you did worse. - Biglands, O'loughlin, S*itolella, Shirley, Singh, Shir. Only one of those part of your first 18.
You win Macca!! :D
Stiffy_18
12 Jun 2003, 22:32
Originally posted by Macca19
32 - Gallagher - Started in a blaze of glory leaidng to praise such as future Brownlow winner and Captain. Ended up being the slowest footballer to have played at AFL level. Ive never seen a player take SO long to make a decision and think that noones gonna tackle him. Lost count how many holding the balls he gave up due to being so slow to make up his mind. Spot on. David Gallagher has got to be the biggest dud that has ever put on a Crows guernsey. I cannot believe we wasted a pick 32 on him:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
BTW whatever you are feeding Alan Stewart with could you send some of that our way??????:( ;)
I still say we should've kept Gallagher instead of getting Nelson.
Blues_Girl
12 Jun 2003, 22:39
Originally posted by DaveW
I still say we should've kept Gallagher instead of getting Nelson.
You are kidding me right??
I've got more football ability than Gallagher!
Originally posted by Blues_Girl
You are kidding me right??
I've got more football ability than Gallagher! That's how highly I rate Nelson.
macca23
12 Jun 2003, 22:45
Originally posted by DaveW
I still say we should've kept Gallagher instead of getting Nelson.
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!
Gallagher was an absolute joke!!! It used to make me puke every time he got the ball and froze like a rabbit in a spotlight with no f......ing idea if what to do with it. Macca19 described his pathetic performances perfectly.
Another measure of just how good Gallagher went on to be is that the bottom side delisted him last year with the strong possibility that they were going to lose their draft picks. They saw nothing a s a better alternative.
Nelson's no good!! But he's better than Gallagher.
Blues_Girl
12 Jun 2003, 22:48
Originally posted by DaveW
That's how highly I rate Nelson.
Words fail me.
Stiffy_18
12 Jun 2003, 22:48
Originally posted by DaveW
I still say we should've kept Gallagher instead of getting Nelson. Ease up on the beer mate;) :p
Seriously Nelson is bad but there is NO ONE worse than David Gallagher.
Didnt James have a hand in the trade deals to get Jarman back to Adelaide and what about the pickup of Maca. I think its pretty easy to sit back and say we should have got this person or that but the trade is a bit like winning lotto sometimes
You may be all set for some certain players and then when your on the viniger stroke some other team drafts them and you are left to make the best of a bad situation.
If he was to go who would do it better
dyertribe
13 Jun 2003, 03:47
Originally posted by macca23
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!
Gallagher was an absolute joke!!! It used to make me puke every time he got the ball and froze like a rabbit in a spotlight with no f......ing idea if what to do with it. Macca19 described his pathetic performances perfectly.
Another measure of just how good Gallagher went on to be is that the bottom side delisted him last year with the strong possibility that they were going to lose their draft picks. They saw nothing as a better alternative.
And to think I wrote into Fans Forum in The Advertiser applauding his, Matty Golding (fair bias there) and Brett Burton's performance (gun) after we spanked Sydney at home back in 1999...
Fair play though, the next year during a game - after he pulled out of a contest for the second time in a quarter - I loudly proclaimed him to be the worst player to ever pull on Crows colours. The morons around me shouted me down... Yeah.
blighty
14 Jun 2003, 22:18
Fantasia deserves to be damned forever as a recruiting manager............
He [they] overlooked Francou even after he won 2 Margarey Medals........... & lets never ever forget McGregor was preferred to Pavlich........ both will bite us on the arse for years to come.......
macca23
14 Jun 2003, 23:48
Just to carry on a bit more about our poor history with drafting/trading for KPP players especially forwards, at the end of 2000 we traded pick 23 for Evan Hewitt - now delisted.
The Kangas used that pick to draft Drew Petrie
Height 197cm
Weight: 101kg
Date of Birth: 15 October 1982
Wouldn't we just love to have this up and comer 20 year old in our team!!
At the end of 2001 we traded pick 56 which we got for Vardy to Freo. That got us the mighty Daniel Schell. Freo used that draft pick to get Paul Medhurst. And the winner is......???? :rolleyes:
Stiffy_18
14 Jun 2003, 23:51
Originally posted by blighty
Fantasia deserves to be damned forever as a recruiting manager............
He [they] overlooked Francou even after he won 2 Margarey Medals........... & lets never ever forget McGregor was preferred to Pavlich........ both will bite us on the arse for years to come....... Its easy to point out the ones that he overlooked but why don't you look at the players that he got to the club. Don't forget that 15 other sides overlooked those blokes so does that mean that the other recruiting managers should be damned for life??????
Everyone makes bad mistakes but i would say with late picks James has been very good. he just needs to work at his strike rate when it comes to early draft picks.
macca23
14 Jun 2003, 23:54
Originally posted by Stiffy_18
Everyone makes bad mistakes but i would say with late picks James has been very good. he just needs to work at his strike rate when it comes to early draft picks.
As I said earlier James has done well with late picks and selecting mid-fielders and on-ballers. His or perhaps it's the club's weakness has been in drafting KPPs.
Stiffy_18
14 Jun 2003, 23:55
Originally posted by macca23
Just to carry on a bit more about our poor history with drafting/trading for KPP players especially forwards, at the end of 2000 we traded pick 23 for Evan Hewitt - now delisted.
The Kangas used that pick to draft Drew Petrie
Height 197cm
Weight: 101kg
Date of Birth: 15 October 1982
Wouldn't we just love to have this up and comer 20 year old in our team!!
At the end of 2001 we traded pick 56 which we got for Vardy to Freo. That got us the mighty Daniel Schell. Freo used that draft pick to get Paul Medhurst. And the winner is......???? :rolleyes: Yeah but we all seem to forget that James Fantasia is not the only one to blame here. At the end of the day when it comes to trading the final decison fall down to Reidy and Ayers. If those 2 came to Fantasia and said we want to draft a youngster for such a position, he would go out and do his best.
BTW. Drew Pertie would be sensational for us. Gives us a future CHF that can pinch hit in ruck and is hard at it.;)
Stiffy_18
15 Jun 2003, 00:04
Originally posted by macca23
As I said earlier James has done well with late picks and selecting mid-fielders and on-ballers. His or perhaps it's the club's weakness has been in drafting KPPs. He definetly needs to do some homework there.Generally ruckman and KPP are harder to judge when it comes to scouting because alot more of the factors come into the equation. They usually take longer to develop but in all honesty most of the best KPP around were taken in the top 15 of the draft. Unless you unearth a gem after pick 15 or you are bloody lucky when it comes to draft that a good KPP will slip down to your pick, your chances decrease.
Hopefully we can get a good young prospect at CHF with our 1st pick. I still cannot understand why we overlooked Damon White and selected Ben Finnin in 2001 draft. Damon White was considered a top 10 pick a year earlier but was too young to get drafted. He broke his leg the following year and his stock decreased. He was picked up as a bargain with pick 61. We picked Finnin at 44.:(
Originally posted by macca23
Just to carry on a bit more about our poor history with drafting/trading for KPP players especially forwards, at the end of 2000 we traded pick 23 for Evan Hewitt - now delisted. Urrrrrrrrrgh, don't remind me. Hewitt was a dud with the Roos and he was a dud with us. I was pissed off that we recruited him in the first place and I'm glad we got rid of him last year.
Macca19
15 Jun 2003, 01:00
Originally posted by blighty
Fantasia deserves to be damned forever as a recruiting manager............
He [they] overlooked Francou even after he won 2 Margarey Medals
:confused:
He has one...in 1996. Adelaide had no chance to pick him up after his Magarey because Port took him as part of the inaugraul Power squad.
EagleBlue
15 Jun 2003, 01:05
Originally posted by DaveW
I still say we should've kept Gallagher instead of getting Nelson.
And we should have kept Massie instead of getting Eccles :mad: Maybe we should have given you the guy who ended Massie's career at Carlton. Scott Freeborn. Would have been a fairer trade I reckon !!!!!
Stiffy_18
15 Jun 2003, 14:09
Originally posted by EagleBlue
And we should have kept Massie instead of getting Eccles :mad: Maybe we should have given you the guy who ended Massie's career at Carlton. Scott Freeborn. Would have been a fairer trade I reckon !!!!! Nah we are pretty happy with that trade. Massie has been playing some very good footy on a half back flank for us lately. I think we got ourselves a 200 game player iin the making. He still has lot of improvment left in him.
We'll give you Ben Nelson and you can keep him for free.;)