Can we please move on?

[BomberTime]

I am so sick and tired of hearing people talk about the following:

* We shouldnt have traded pick 16 for williams
* We should have selected Joel Selwood instead of Scott Gumbleton
* We should have selected Cyril Rioli instead of David Myers

Does this talk get us anywhere? Sure we could have selected a young gun with pick 16 but we might not have as well, the draft is a gamble. Essendon identified a mid-sized goal kicking forward as a target to aquire, they got mark williams and we acquired pick 24 & 26 (jake carlisle- a good quality tall and a speedy onballer in travis colyer who fits our game plan nicely). Sure williams hasnt worked out too well yet but he has some talent and injury free he still has something to offer.
Ok, Joel sellwood and rioli are both guns and didnt take too long for adjust to AFL..this sometimes happen and if the recruiters had their time again they might select different or maybe they wouldnt change anything as they are all to aware that some players take longer to adjust to the rigours of afl.
Gumby is starting to prove his worth, he appears over his injury curse and with a full pre-season and a modified weights program and some goal kicking practice could well be an amazing centre half forward for the next 10 years. David Myers is starting to improve with confidence and is benefitting from playing injury free, he is starting to get more minutes in the midfield and may very well prove to be a great clearance player for us and i look forward to myers delivering the ball to gumby for the next part of the decade.
Lets get behind some of these young players more instead of wishing they were somone else. Whats done is done, whos to say we would be in any better position than we are in now. lets not look back on what might have been..lets move forward.

Cheers:)

[stugots]

news to me

[Brent Prismall#9]

Good thread :thumbsu:
Instead of bagging our players and putting them down support them :D

[Skeeta Olly]

* We should have selected Cyril Rioli instead of David Myers


We could have had Rio..

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/6259/1234931504682.jpg

I jest.

[bombersno1]

Why shouldn't the coach and the people in the department who select the players be held accountable?

[Haduken]

Why shouldn't the coach and the people in the department who select the players be held accountable?

They are. Just not to random punters on an internet forum. And the other random punters on the same internet forum are over it :thumbsu:

[Oh Tayteridge]

Why shouldn't the coach and the people in the department who select the players be held accountable?

Ponder this; where does incessant bitching get you? Are you ever heard? Is it constructive? Does it have any effect on anyone other than a negative one? And how does that reflect on the wider Essendon supporter community and image?

Neck up and support.

[Pocket_Pears]

I reckon people will move on when our midfielders start consistently delivering the ball lace out to our forwards on the lead from centre clearances, like we used to see all the time 10 years ago.

[Duckworth]

Why shouldn't the coach and the people in the department who select the players be held accountable?

As a whole they can be, but you can't just select isolated instances. They get it right a lot too.

2005: Paddy Ryder (pick after was Okleigh Nichols)
2007: Tayte Pears (pick after was Clayton Hinkley)
2007: Cale Hooker (pick after was MJ/Matt Austin)

etc.

[eld246]

I am so sick and tired of hearing people talk about the following:

* We shouldnt have traded pick 16 for williams
* We should have selected Joel Selwood instead of Scott Gumbleton
* We should have selected Cyril Rioli instead of David Myers


But we shouldn't have traded pick 16 for Williams, we basically got nothing for Lovett. Not sure about the Selwood one, I think Gumby will be a star. We definitely should have drafted Rioli instead of Myers. He is Michael Long's nephew FFS.

[michael7]

But we shouldn't have traded pick 16 for Williams, we basically got nothing for Lovett. Not sure about the Selwood one, I think Gumby will be a star. We definitely should have drafted Rioli instead of Myers. He is Michael Long's nephew FFS.

Don't post very often but I feel like I have to after reading this thread.

First off, Great op and I wholeheartedly agree.

To the above quote:

Do you like Pears? Because IIRC many insiders stated that Pears was on the Hawks list straight after Rioli. We pick Rioli and we may very well not have Pears. Also to anyone who says that Rance was next on the Hawks list, if the Hawks had taken Rance, don't you think that Richmond may have taken Pears? I know it's a bit speculative but seriously, can people see where I am going with this!!!

Do you like Colyer/Carlisle and Anthony Long? Because we gained 24 (Carlisle) and 33 (Long) out of the Williams trade. We don't do that trade and we don't have one of Carlisle or Colyer on our list (Depends on who ended up with p.24 and who they took. I suspect Carlisle was our first choice and if it had been between him and Colyer at 26 I suspect we would've taken Carlisle).

Secondly, we gained Long out of 33 so we don't do that trade and we would've had to hope he fell to 42 (Our next pick if we did not do the deal).

Yes, it would've been great to get a quality midfielder at 16 but:

- Williams is the exact type of player i felt we needed at the end of last season.

- What if trading for Williams allows us to use someone like Reimers or Monfries as a piece in a trade for a quality mid as quality small/medium forwards who may be expendable with Davey, Jetta, one of Reimers/Monfries, Williams and even Zaharakis all playing through the forward line.

This post is not just aimed at you but anyone who brings up this line of thought. Yes I realise that some of my post is speculative but surely people can see where I am coming from.

[morebeer]

I am so sick and tired of hearing people talk about the following:

* We shouldnt have traded pick 16 for williams
* We should have selected Joel Selwood instead of Scott Gumbleton
* We should have selected Cyril Rioli instead of David Myers

Does this talk get us anywhere? Sure we could have selected a young gun with pick 16 but we might not have as well, the draft is a gamble. Essendon identified a mid-sized goal kicking forward as a target to aquire, they got mark williams and we acquired pick 24 & 26 (jake carlisle- a good quality tall and a speedy onballer in travis colyer who fits our game plan nicely). Sure williams hasnt worked out too well yet but he has some talent and injury free he still has something to offer.
Ok, Joel sellwood and rioli are both guns and didnt take too long for adjust to AFL..this sometimes happen and if the recruiters had their time again they might select different or maybe they wouldnt change anything as they are all to aware that some players take longer to adjust to the rigours of afl.
Gumby is starting to prove his worth, he appears over his injury curse and with a full pre-season and a modified weights program and some goal kicking practice could well be an amazing centre half forward for the next 10 years. David Myers is starting to improve with confidence and is benefitting from playing injury free, he is starting to get more minutes in the midfield and may very well prove to be a great clearance player for us and i look forward to myers delivering the ball to gumby for the next part of the decade.
Lets get behind some of these young players more instead of wishing they were somone else. Whats done is done, whos to say we would be in any better position than we are in now. lets not look back on what might have been..lets move forward.

Cheers:)

Its a double edged sword though. Why should we only pat the recruiting team on the back for good decisions and ignore the bad ones?

It is allright to say that Hurley was a great choice, yet not allright to say that Myers was drafted a bit early?

Its only an internet forum. Nothing we say impacts on the players or the club. If you are hyper sensitive to the club being held accountable for their actions then don't read internet forums.

[eld246]

Don't post very often but I feel like I have to after reading this thread.

First off, Great op and I wholeheartedly agree.

To the above quote:

Do you like Pears? Because IIRC many insiders stated that Pears was on the Hawks list straight after Rioli. We pick Rioli and we may very well not have Pears. Also to anyone who says that Rance was next on the Hawks list, if the Hawks had taken Rance, don't you think that Richmond may have taken Pears? I know it's a bit speculative but seriously, can people see where I am going with this!!!

Do you like Colyer/Carlisle and Anthony Long? Because we gained 24 (Carlisle) and 33 (Long) out of the Williams trade. We don't do that trade and we don't have one of Carlisle or Colyer on our list (Depends on who ended up with p.24 and who they took. I suspect Carlisle was our first choice and if it had been between him and Colyer at 26 I suspect we would've taken Carlisle).

Secondly, we gained Long out of 33 so we don't do that trade and we would've had to hope he fell to 42 (Our next pick if we did not do the deal).

Yes, it would've been great to get a quality midfielder at 16 but:

- Williams is the exact type of player i felt we needed at the end of last season.

- What if trading for Williams allows us to use someone like Reimers or Monfries as a piece in a trade for a quality mid as quality small/medium forwards who may be expendable with Davey, Jetta, one of Reimers/Monfries, Williams and even Zaharakis all playing through the forward line.

This post is not just aimed at you but anyone who brings up this line of thought. Yes I realise that some of my post is speculative but surely people can see where I am coming from.

If we hadn't taken Pears I'd say we would have taken Ottens, I'd rather Rioli and Ottens over Myers and Pears.

Not sure whether I'd say Colyer and Carlisle make the Williams trade worth it, they haven't done alot as yet but I guess time will show if that deal makes sense.

I think Long would have dropped to 42, I think personally we drafted him because we were scared he could turn out another Rioli and we would have looked stupid to miss out on him.

Not sure a VFL player who we are paying $1mil over 3 years is exactly what we need. Not sure at his best he is what we need.

[IAmAJedi]

Ottens? HOW THE FFFFF

[lards]

Don't forget Hardingham over Barlow:o, he's dominating again tonight. More misses than hits, quite pathetic really. Sick of this shit, how many years has it been now? Patience is wearing very thin.:mad::footy:

[HFF_07]

Don't post very often but I feel like I have to after reading this thread.

First off, Great op and I wholeheartedly agree.

To the above quote:

Do you like Pears? Because IIRC many insiders stated that Pears was on the Hawks list straight after Rioli. We pick Rioli and we may very well not have Pears. Also to anyone who says that Rance was next on the Hawks list, if the Hawks had taken Rance, don't you think that Richmond may have taken Pears? I know it's a bit speculative but seriously, can people see where I am going with this!!!

Do you like Colyer/Carlisle and Anthony Long? Because we gained 24 (Carlisle) and 33 (Long) out of the Williams trade. We don't do that trade and we don't have one of Carlisle or Colyer on our list (Depends on who ended up with p.24 and who they took. I suspect Carlisle was our first choice and if it had been between him and Colyer at 26 I suspect we would've taken Carlisle).

Secondly, we gained Long out of 33 so we don't do that trade and we would've had to hope he fell to 42 (Our next pick if we did not do the deal).

Yes, it would've been great to get a quality midfielder at 16 but:

- Williams is the exact type of player i felt we needed at the end of last season.

- What if trading for Williams allows us to use someone like Reimers or Monfries as a piece in a trade for a quality mid as quality small/medium forwards who may be expendable with Davey, Jetta, one of Reimers/Monfries, Williams and even Zaharakis all playing through the forward line.

This post is not just aimed at you but anyone who brings up this line of thought. Yes I realise that some of my post is speculative but surely people can see where I am coming from.

If we did not pick up Pears we still would have had Hooker and Hurley as tall backs.. Pears as another quality tall defender is just an added bonus that allows us to essentially play a similar player in Hurley forward.

Carlise was always on our list, I think Griffitsh was the highest tall we were after but was taken by Richmond, I do not think Colyer would have been that great a loss, some decent players still around in the latter parts of the draft. Pick 42 could have seen us with Ryan Harwood, Jesse Chricton, Jesse W.Smith, Michael Barlow even. We took Long because of the history not because of the talent IMO :cool:

As for Williams being the perfect player for us, a bloke we call 'Gus' says hi :rolleyes: Zaharakis has also been playing this role at times for us, whilst Davey has shown he is more than capable of being a hit up target.

As for previous selections... Joel Selwood was the premier junior, a standout and a player who was always going to walk into an AFL club and dominate. His shoulders were suspect and that is the reason for clubs overlooking him before the Hawks took a punt :rolleyes:

And Rioli, well we all should know that Rioli is Longy's nephew, we should have taken him if we were to the whole 'family history' thing that we seem to have happening...

Overall though, I am disappointed we do not have Rioli or Selwood, hindsight is a wonderful thing though..

[eld246]

Ottens? HOW THE FFFFF

Andy Otten you moron, drafted 27th.

[eld246]

Watching Barlow tonight, makes me want to cry

[whats_at_stake]

Watching Barlow tonight, makes me want to cry

I know what you mean.

[Crimsons]

In hindsight, certain selections have not been as succesfull as they could have been. However, we can only be critical if the selection was deemed to be 'wrong' at the time. In regards to Myers & Gumbleton, both were logical picks from the information recruiters had at the time of selection.

It was always Myers vs Palmer. Rioli was not rated as highly. Rioli's development has been fantastic, but the selection of Myers was the most informed decision at the time.

Gumbleton's career should be judged against the other highly rated talls in the draft (Hansen, Leuenberger, etc). Comparisons to Selwood are irelevant as they are completely different types of players.

[morebeer]

In hindsight, certain selections have not been as succesfull as they could have been. However, we can only be critical if the selection was deemed to be 'wrong' at the time. In regards to Myers & Gumbleton, both were logical picks from the information recruiters had at the time of selection.

It was always Myers vs Palmer. Rioli was not rated as highly. Rioli's development has been fantastic, but the selection of Myers was the most informed decision at the time.

Gumbleton's career should be judged against the other highly rated talls in the draft (Hansen, Leuenberger, etc). Comparisons to Selwood are irelevant as they are completely different types of players.

We, the average mug punter, are not privy to the multitude of information the recruiters are. Therefore, why is it important that it be deemed wrong at the time. We are not professional recruiters, they are.

Is it realistic for us to expect them to get it right all the time, or even 70%, well it probably is not. They are however, accountable for their choices. Just like we are at work.

[HFF_07]

Watching Barlow tonight, makes me want to cry

the little bloke in the # 33 shirt last night makes me want to cry more..

[michael7]

If we hadn't taken Pears I'd say we would have taken Ottens, I'd rather Rioli and Ottens over Myers and Pears.

Not sure whether I'd say Colyer and Carlisle make the Williams trade worth it, they haven't done alot as yet but I guess time will show if that deal makes sense.

I think Long would have dropped to 42, I think personally we drafted him because we were scared he could turn out another Rioli and we would have looked stupid to miss out on him.

Not sure a VFL player who we are paying $1mil over 3 years is exactly what we need. Not sure at his best he is what we need.

Yeah okay, fair enough mate, I think you make fair enough points. I read this place quite often and i've seen that Rioli vs Myers comparison so many times without any mention of Pears, that is all.

I was only going on what I've read from people who were apparently insiders so I have no idea about Rioli and Otten but if that is true then fair enough as Rioli is Rioli and I was pretty impressed with the little I saw of Otten last season.

Of course it's far too early to judge Carlisle and Colyer but I do think Colyer has something about him from what I've seen of him and only going on the VFL reports, Carlisle does have some decent potential.

Yeah, not sure we need to be paying a VFL player as much as we are paying Williams however, I am happy to admit that I thought we could use a similar sort of player at the time of the trade. Possibly though, if we can eventually move Zaharakis into the midfield full time which I think may be his best position then then that could open up a spot for Williams who I think could be pretty handy for us if we can start to get on top in the midfield and give him good delivery.

[Skeeta Olly]

the little bloke in the # 33 shirt last night makes me want to cry more..

I don't think you mean number 33, unless you're talking about Ryan Houlihan.

[windyhill]

Watching Barlow tonight, makes me want to cry

Barlow is driving me absolutely mental , the last remaining hope is that Hardingham turns out half decent. The recruiting department are getting their noses rubbed in it on a weekly basis, he is on track for a top 3 Brownlow finish. Do we know who had the final say on him ? Knighter ? Has anyone put their hand up ? Come on Kyle.

[michael7]

If we did not pick up Pears we still would have had Hooker and Hurley as tall backs.. Pears as another quality tall defender is just an added bonus that allows us to essentially play a similar player in Hurley forward.

As for Williams being the perfect player for us, a bloke we call 'Gus' says hi :rolleyes: Zaharakis has also been playing this role at times for us, whilst Davey has shown he is more than capable of being a hit up target.

As for previous selections... Joel Selwood was the premier junior, a standout and a player who was always going to walk into an AFL club and dominate. His shoulders were suspect and that is the reason for clubs overlooking him before the Hawks took a punt :rolleyes:

First off - Yes we would still have had Hooker and Hurley but then who plays forward with Gumbleton? Neagle? Yeah he has got talent but as we all know there are still many question marks over him whilst the Ruckmen do need to have some rest throughout the game.

Second - Yes we have Monfries, Zaharakis and Davey but cast your mind back to the end of last year and Davey had shown nothing like his 2010 form bar the r.13 Carlton game and a lot of people - me included - were hoping to see a lot more of Zaharakis up the ground this year which would've left only Monfries. Look I'm well aware of Monfries and his talents but I just felt at the time that Williams would compliment Monfries given that Monfries pushes up to the wings whereas Williams played primarily deeper in the forward line at Hawthorn and there were also other question marks over Davey, Jetta and even Reimers.

Third - Yes it would be great to have Selwood and he was highly rated before the draft but no-one knew that Gumbleton would have this injury run whilst Selwood had also had something like two knee recos in two years. Look hindsight is great and Selwood would be brilliant to have at the dons but thats just the way it is and Geelong took the risk and it paid off but it could so easily have gone the other way.

Finally, hindsight is great and its easy to say knowing what we know now. Having said that, I agree that our recruiters may have got some wrong before and shouldn't only ever be praised but I just feel like there are some people on here who sometimes only post a certain side of the story to suit their argument (Not aimed at the two posters that I've quoted in this thread by the way). Anyway my work is done, I feel like I've made my point and I'll just leave it at that. ;)

[Kong]

As for Williams being the perfect player for us, a bloke we call 'Gus' says hi :rolleyes:Different players.Zaharakis has also been playing this role at times for usWas this planned before 2010? Very unlikely.whilst Davey has shown he is more than capable of being a hit up target.Read above.As for previous selections... Joel Selwood was the premier junior, a standout and a player who was always going to walk into an AFL club and dominate. His shoulders were suspect and that is the reason for clubs overlooking him before the Hawks took a punt :rolleyes:What?

He did a knee and didn't play the entire season of the draft.

As for Hawthorn taking a punt? Errm...And Rioli, well we all should know that Rioli is Longy's nephew, we should have taken him if we were to the whole 'family history' thing that we seem to have happening..What 'family history thing'? Because we drafted Anthony Long? You're kidding yourself.

Also, there's a massive difference between pick #6 in a very strong top-10 draft and pick #33 in one of the weakest drafts in history. More liberty to gamble, if you ask me.Overall though, I am disappointed we do not have Rioli or Selwood, hindsight is a wonderful thing though..Exactly.

12 other clubs overlooked Rioli, and 5 others overlooked Selwood. Get over it.

What good does pumping yourself up in hindsight do? For yourself, maybe something small; for everybody else reading it, nothing; for the club, absolutely zilch.

Move on guys.

[George Washington]

^^ Exactly what I was going to say but just couldn't be bothered typing it out. :thumbsu:

[Pweter]

Really, the whole draft is a gamble, even high picks. These are kids that are often only just finishing growing (or still growing) and most have never played league level in any state (WAFL, SANFL, VFL). It is therefore relatively unknown how their body will adjust to the AFL workload (many have injuries in their early years), how they will adjust to playing against elite athletes and how they will adapt to the break neck speed of AFL.

You have to remember these are 17/18 year old kids when drafted. Once most players had to come through the U19s and even reserves to earn a senior gig and even then most had quiet starts to their senior AFL career. Now they are expected to make the biggest adjustment in their football lives within 12 months else they are jumped on and sledged.

Patience is required with some of these kids and I think we are starting to see a bit with respect to Myers and Gumby. Sure, Selwood would be great but I don't blame the recruiters for not taking him. Rioli..... well I'd love him but quality KPPs are very hard to find and I reckon the recruiters firming up our KP prospects did the right thing.

[Slattery_20]

Takes 2 minutes and 20 keystrokes to reply, just a couple of clicks to Ignore List and the troll is gone forever.
I see no reason to believe why 'bombersno1' should be regarded as an Essendon supporter at all.

[vast]

Im pretty pleased with our drafting in the last few years, guys like pears, hooker hurley, melksham and zaharakis all look like being 200 plus gamers and very good players. Hurley could end being the best player from the 2008 draft and a genuine superstar.

Of course we have made 'mistakes' if you wanna call them that, like previous posters have said you make the decision based on all the information available
to you at the time.

One example Bryce Gibbs was talked up as being the greatest prospect since judd and clearly the best player in a 'superdraft' filled with KPP's that were gonna be stars of the competition. 4 years on would you say carlton wasted Pick 1 in the superdraft as they didn't take Selwood? Most people would say yes, but back then no one in their right mind would have taken selwood over gibbs.

You gotta take the good with the bad and I think we have our fair share of good on our list that will hopefully keep getting better. Go Bombers!