View Full Version : We have completely stuffed it
jade_00
22 Jun 2010, 16:27
With the loss to Hawthorn over the weekend, I've just had a look at the ladder predictor on the AFL website to get an idea where we are likely to finish.
Our opponents:
Adelaide (AAMI)
Melbourne (MCG)
West Coast (Etihad)
North (Etihad)
St Kilda (Etihad)
Carlton (MCG)
Collingwood (MCG)
Lions (Etihad)
Bulldogs (Etihad)
Even if we beat our next four opponents, we'd still need to knock over three of the Saints, Dogs, Pies, Blues and Lions to make the eight.
Obviously it's not an exact science, but I figure will escape with ten wins for the season and 9th place.
The loss to Hawthorn, and the brain fade against Port are really going to cost us come the end of the year.
If thats the case, how do you rate Knights performance as coach? How do you rate our list? Where are we headed?
At least until we win our next game and then we're a chance for the top 4 again....
I rate the coach fine, I rate the list good, any list where the strength is young KPP's and the weakness is older midfield must be heading in a good direction, no?
Ludwig van Bertstare
22 Jun 2010, 16:30
Knights performance as coach? 6/10
How do I rate our list? 7/10
Where are we headed?
Who knows? We have some key position prospects that look like they can become quality players and some talent shown in our young midfielders. We have to continue to build upon that midfield before we win a flag.
saladodger
22 Jun 2010, 16:45
Adelaide, Eagles, Demons and North are all very winnable, that being said nothing is a certainty this season. Of the five games after those, we have beaten the Dogs, Saints and carlton already this year and the lions are very beatable at this point. Collingwood will be tough but we generally get up for the bigger games (Anzac Day anomaly aside).
I think your probably on the mark with the 10 wins call but I think if we can run out 4 quarters and not lose anymore through injury 6-7 wins could happen.
A very difficult fixture and the Port, Swans and Hawks games that have all been lost late in the contest by a small margin should be taken into account when assessing our ladder position and performance also.
Knights is doing okay and I believe we are heading in the right direction.
centurion
22 Jun 2010, 16:57
Unfortunately the ladder predictor doesn't factor in attitudes or if we are switched on if you like on any given match day. That will be the deciding factor where we finish imo.
tbh i think we are stuffed. can't see us competing for a flag in a long time which is very sad. but who knows, maybe im just a bit pessimistic due to the disappointment of the season so far.
stay true
22 Jun 2010, 17:08
We're not stuffed until we are mathematically stuffed. Long way to go yet.
BomberTime
22 Jun 2010, 17:16
All we can do is keep trying to win games but what works in our favour is the hawks have a tough draw and carlton and sydney have difficult games as well. This season is tricky to pick winners and it is way too early to declare the season over as teams above us have not exactly cemented their spot, we could win the next 4 matches and be 9 & 8 while hawthorn could lose 3 of the next 4 matches (they play bulldogs, geelong, brisbane and saints) and we could be back in the 8. I will always back us against the blues and the lions down here. But im getting too far ahead of myself. Point im trying to make is not to throw the towel in yet, we always knew this season would be tough especially the first half of the season, yes we could have beat the hawks,power and sydney but we didnt..we move on. The break could not come at a better time for the boys and we really need a win to get some confidence back in the team, i think a few little tweeks in the team is necessary when the team returns, Hille monfries and reimers will be huge ins for us, maybe even williams if hurley goes back to cover in the absence of fletch.
Knights hasnt done a bad job, i feel he could have coached better in some games but we are heading in the right direction, there are many positives so far i.e. Gumby,Davey, Fletcher. Our kpp's in hooker pears gumby and hurley havent even played 30 games each..it will take another few years of constant development and we need to develop a larger midfield rotation and maybe even try and land a big name midfielder to essendon to help, their skills still need great improvement but im confident this will happen.
:thumbsu:
spudmaster
22 Jun 2010, 17:21
We're not stuffed until we are mathematically stuffed. Long way to go yet.
Couldn't agree more. One just needs to look at last year. From memory, from about round 14-15 onwards, nearly every game for both our clubs was "this is a must win game or we've stuffed it because of everything else that's going to happen". Well game after game our sides kept under performing, losing those supposed must-win games, but lo and behold, fate had our teams playing off for that last finals position in the last round because all the other results seemed to work in our favour.
If Carlton continue their slide, they could make way for a side to join the finals race. Similarly if Hawthorn drop a few of their tough games we can just as easily slide back out. The bombers will likely peg one match back on the Roos, and potentially the Hawks in the next round with us playing Geelong and Doggies respectively. Despite having two teams below you on the same amount of points, I can't see either team winning in the near future so you shouldn't have too much competition from below.
As a few of the posters have already mentioned, you have a decent streak of games coming up and a few big wins wouldn't go astray to help bring the teams percentage up around the 100 mark.
Far from over, keep the faith :thumbsu:
stay true
22 Jun 2010, 17:29
Couldn't agree more. One just needs to look at last year. From memory, from about round 14-15 onwards, nearly every game for both our clubs was "this is a must win game or we've stuffed it because of everything else that's going to happen". Well game after game our sides kept under performing, losing those supposed must-win games, but lo and behold, fate had our teams playing off for that last finals position in the last round because all the other results seemed to work in our favour.
If Carlton continue their slide, they could make way for a side to join the finals race. Similarly if Hawthorn drop a few of their tough games we can just as easily slide back out. The bombers will likely peg one match back on the Roos, and potentially the Hawks in the next round with us playing Geelong and Doggies respectively. Despite having two teams below you on the same amount of points, I can't see either team winning in the near future so you shouldn't have too much competition from below.
As a few of the posters have already mentioned, you have a decent streak of games coming up and a few big wins wouldn't go astray to help bring the teams percentage up around the 100 mark.
Far from over, keep the faith :thumbsu:
Top post, mate.:thumbsu:
Jonesy1987
22 Jun 2010, 17:48
Don't really mind tbh, with one of the hardest draws any team has ever had, if we can finish with 10-11 wins I'd be stoked. With Fletch out we have the second youngest list in the league with miles of growth left.
In the next year or two, we will have a stronger, depth midfield group, we might win those 3-4 winnable games we have dropped this year and without any mystical occurrence we're a top 4 side with 14-15 wins.
Macca18
22 Jun 2010, 18:50
Couldn't agree more. One just needs to look at last year. From memory, from about round 14-15 onwards, nearly every game for both our clubs was "this is a must win game or we've stuffed it because of everything else that's going to happen". Well game after game our sides kept under performing, losing those supposed must-win games, but lo and behold, fate had our teams playing off for that last finals position in the last round because all the other results seemed to work in our favour.
If Carlton continue their slide, they could make way for a side to join the finals race. Similarly if Hawthorn drop a few of their tough games we can just as easily slide back out. The bombers will likely peg one match back on the Roos, and potentially the Hawks in the next round with us playing Geelong and Doggies respectively. Despite having two teams below you on the same amount of points, I can't see either team winning in the near future so you shouldn't have too much competition from below.
As a few of the posters have already mentioned, you have a decent streak of games coming up and a few big wins wouldn't go astray to help bring the teams percentage up around the 100 mark.
Far from over, keep the faith :thumbsu:
For some amazing reason, I have suddenly grown a bigger respect for Hawthorn supporters since last week when they defeated us. A majority of them are all being very gracious winners and providing quality insight.
How on earth did this happen?
Some of our supporters could learn a thing or two. :thumbsu:
stugots
22 Jun 2010, 19:02
For some amazing reason, I have suddenly grown a bigger respect for Hawthorn supporters since last week when they defeated us. A majority of them are all being very gracious winners and providing quality insight.
How on earth did this happen?
Some of our supporters could learn a thing or two. :thumbsu:
its all a front i tell ya, only a couple losses away from their true colours returning
hugorune
22 Jun 2010, 20:18
Let's just take it one game at a time and see what happens.
If we are good enough to make the eight we will, and we'll go from there, but none of the next four week's matches are certainties.
It's really hard to say how I rate this list and how I rate Knights. I think we're continuing to improve, both our individual players, and as a team, and if and when everything does click for us, the other 15 teams won't know what the hell hit them, and neither will we.
Given the tough draw we have had, Im not surprised we are sitting 5 - 8, but I actually feel we are better side than last year and we are far more consistent.
I am confident we will win the next four games, even though fletcher and pears are out, I think this will show how much the team has actually matured.
I don't mind having a tough draw as I think it will make us a better team in the long run and our young players will learn a lot more playing against good sides rather than poor ones.
Even Hutchy said on footy classified that he feels, we are clearly a top 8 side and its only the tough draw that has kept out of the 8.
As for the ratings
Knights 7/10 - needs to improve team selection
Heading in the right direction and I think in 2 years we should be pushing for top 4. Still need to develop more midfielders.
Given the tough draw we have had, Im not surprised we are sitting 5 - 8, but I actually feel we are better side than last year and we are far more consistent.
I am confident we will win the next four games, even though fletcher and pears are out, I think this will show how much the team has actually matured.
I don't mind having a tough draw as I think it will make us a better team in the long run and our young players will learn a lot more playing against good sides rather than poor ones.
Even Hutchy said on footy classified that he feels, we are clearly a top 8 side and its only the tough draw that has kept out of the 8.
As for the ratings
Knights 7/10 - needs to improve team selection, we are heading in the right direction and I think in 2 years we should be pushing for top 4. Still need to develop more midfielders.
Just had a look at the remaining 9 rounds and we aren;t out of it just yet. There is still a long way to go and some teams including us are only an injury or two away from being in trouble.
If we do win the next 4 games and can defeat Carlton and the Lions then we will be on 11 wins which should enough to crack the finals.
I think we will be battling it out with Carlton and Syd for the final 2 postions in the eight.
As far as the season goes -after a slow start, there have been alot of positives - Gumbelton getting games, Hocking, Jetta, Colyer and Melksham all showing enough to suggest they will be good players. The defensive side to our game has also improved.
In saying that though we will need to be able to win 11 games for the season to be considered an improvement from last year.
tha Freak
22 Jun 2010, 21:06
The biggest disappointment for me this year is not our overall effort or any team directional change. The biggest disappointment for me is that no one has stood up yet and shown the club he will be our new Marque player. As much as it hurt, one could only admire Franklin's run along the boundary line and kick a goal. We just haven't had a player that had stuck his hand up and said "I'm a star and will win you games." As much as I always live in hope, I not sure we have that player among us!
In saying that though we will need to be able to win 11 games for the season to be considered an improvement from last year.See, I disagree. With the tough draw we've had if we finish on the same amount of wins as last year I'd consider it an improvement.
Oh Tayteridge
22 Jun 2010, 21:10
With the loss to Hawthorn over the weekend, I've just had a look at the ladder predictor on the AFL website to get an idea where we are likely to finish.
Our opponents:
Adelaide (AAMI)
Melbourne (MCG)
West Coast (Etihad)
North (Etihad)
St Kilda (Etihad)
Carlton (MCG)
Collingwood (MCG)
Lions (Etihad)
Bulldogs (Etihad)
Even if we beat our next four opponents, we'd still need to knock over three of the Saints, Dogs, Pies, Blues and Lions to make the eight.
Obviously it's not an exact science, but I figure will escape with ten wins for the season and 9th place.
The loss to Hawthorn, and the brain fade against Port are really going to cost us come the end of the year.
If thats the case, how do you rate Knights performance as coach? How do you rate our list? Where are we headed?
You've completely stuffed it. You jinxed us.
tha Freak
22 Jun 2010, 21:14
We Won't lose another Game!
ghostdog
22 Jun 2010, 21:19
The loss to Hawthorn, and the brain fade against Port are really going to cost us come the end of the year.
If thats the case, how do you rate Knights performance as coach? How do you rate our list? Where are we headed?
Nothing personal, but this sort of illogic annoys the shite out of me. A loss is a loss and is no more or less valuable than any other loss. We also lost to Geelong twice and West Coast. We should have won our first game against Geelong and against West Coast. They are possibly also going to cost us at the end of the year, no more no less against Port or Hawthorn.
Also we haven't finished the year yet. Why rate Knights' performance?
The biggest disappointment for me this year is not our overall effort or any team directional change. The biggest disappointment for me is that no one has stood up yet and shown the club he will be our new Marque player. As much as it hurt, one could only admire Franklin's run along the boundary line and kick a goal. We just haven't had a player that had stuck his hand up and said "I'm a star and will win you games." As much as I always live in hope, I not sure we have that player among us!
Not many Team's have players of Franklins ability.
There is only probably 1/2 a dozen or so marque players in the league.
Not sure if Collingwood or the Doggies have one and they seem to be going alright.
We have to win our next four games to have some hope of making finals, unfortunately we don't travel well.... the adelaide game most likely a loss :thumbsd:
bacon buster
22 Jun 2010, 22:11
while our next 4 games are winnable, i'm not confident of winning all 4, because, honestly, when was the last time we won 4 in a row?
2004?
anyway, i also looked at that predictor, and i still think we are in with a show regardless. i'm happy with how we've been playing, and if we play like we did in the 3rd quarter on friday, we'll win a few in a row for sure.
8-1 in the run home. 13-9 finish.
loopy_cam
23 Jun 2010, 00:12
8-1 in the run home. 13-9 finish.
And a premiership?
resurrector
23 Jun 2010, 01:28
as bad as it is to say this i wish welsh and hank would get injured for the rest of the season...we play so much better without them in the side. this way howlett or even myers can come in and play an attacking tagging role and the likes of atko, dyson, and dempsey can settle on a HBF/wing giving us more zip...this is our strength no doubt, and knights has ****ed our team balance a number of times with bad selections fielding slow teams and cost us games.
that said i defo have faith that we can get 7 of our next 9..our last 2mths of footy has been encouraging excluding the geelong loss and we do have a favourable(ish) run home. here's hoping we can string some Ws together!
Donakebab
23 Jun 2010, 05:22
while our next 4 games are winnable, i'm not confident of winning all 4, because, honestly, when was the last time we won 4 in a row?
2004?
anyway, i also looked at that predictor, and i still think we are in with a show regardless. i'm happy with how we've been playing, and if we play like we did in the 3rd quarter on friday, we'll win a few in a row for sure.
Round 12-15, 2008.
We're not finished, but lets take it one week at a time and focus on redeeming ourselves against those pie floating bastards on their home soil. Not only do we need the win, we need to lift our poor interstate record.
suprisepacket
23 Jun 2010, 07:34
We have to many list cloggers, neagle has been giving to much time with no improvement in sight. Trade basher Houli as he'll never make the grade. Laycock and Bock are not up to it. Pity that idiot knights didnt take barlow as i feel we are 2 decent midfielders short.
bacon buster
23 Jun 2010, 07:34
Round 12-15, 2008.
there you go, forgot all about that. just checking, we actually won 6 out of 7, only losing to richmond by 4 points when bowden rushed those behinds.
i'm staying positive. and even if we don't make the finals, provided we keep playing the way we have, i'll be happier with our efforts this year than last.
Slattery_20
23 Jun 2010, 08:10
Puts us on 6 more wins for mine = 11.
Improvement measured not purely in W/L, gotta look at kids getting games & improving, improving on weaknesses - ie getting massive runs kicked agaisnt us (which hasn't happened as regularly this year), and improving the gap between best and worst, don't forget 3.5 senior players have left too who've been replaced by 1 player and 3 kids. I'd like a win in Adelaide and I'd really like us to compete with the Pies on our terms.
If we could get to 12 or 13 wins I think it'd be a fair success.
10 or 11 is a bit "meh"
MinerBoy
23 Jun 2010, 12:32
tbh i think we are stuffed. can't see us competing for a flag in a long time which is very sad. but who knows, maybe im just a bit pessimistic due to the disappointment of the season so far.
We we 1-6 after 7 rounds and thought we were stuffed. 6 games later we are 8th and are 2 games and % clear of 10th. Unthinkable.
One week at a time and you never know. Your team has the ability to beat the better sides - it just needs to stop losing games to the weaker ones.
it just needs to stop losing games to the weaker ones.
We'll get to see if this is true over the next few rounds, because we've hardly played any of the weaker teams.
LocalBomber
23 Jun 2010, 14:52
Given our travel record to SA, I wouldn't be be surprised to see us lose next weekend.
TheDon35
23 Jun 2010, 15:17
I don't think we've stuffed it. Most good judges had us outside the 8. I definately think we are a better side than last year despite the loss of 3 or 4 champion / experienced players.
The focus has to remain on the next premiership. Trading off long term success for short term gain (Michael Voss style) is not where we are at, particularly given the lack of genuine quality in the experienced players we have left.
Knights is gradually developing this side but needs to do more IMO. His match day coaching is just and his selections are inconsistent.
Despite this, he has the team playing far more consistently, in a more compact manner (less reliant on things like Andrew Lovett doing something incredible to spark a victory), the side has looked more balanced this year and we are genuinely developing guys like Hurley, Hocking, Zaka, Melksham, Jetta, Ryder, Gumby etc.
It's just that IMO, the focus needs to be more on further development of these guys and others in order to develop a side that will challenge for a flag in the next 3 years.
The Donners
23 Jun 2010, 15:42
At least until we win our next game and then we're a chance for the top 4 again....
I rate the coach fine, I rate the list good, any list where the strength is young KPP's and the weakness is older midfield must be heading in a good direction, no?
Fair bump play on..........
Having said that, the way the season has panned out, Essendon were in a position to be making a play for the 8 heading into the break so if we were to fail making the 8 you would think there would be pressure on the coach - particularly from fickle supporters and anti-Knights protestors.
Slattery_20
23 Jun 2010, 15:44
I think that's not a bad wrap up TD35.
I'd give Knights a fairly high mark for his list management and bringing them through and fairly poor for his match day coaching.
I get a bit of a giggle at the changed reactions after 1 or 2 losses - lose to the rampant favourites and a side just above us, and they want to blood half a dozen youngsters.
Win a couple in a row and we must keep that line-up at all costs.
Goldfish.
Skeeta Olly
23 Jun 2010, 16:25
Could easily have been 8-5 heading into the break, cards didn't fall our way. So instead of being entrenched in the 8, we are sitting 2 games out of it. We should be treating the second half of the season as a new one and aim to lose the least amount of games as possible.
strategy
23 Jun 2010, 17:06
We had the worst draw of any team so far.
If the AFL were honest in their fixture arrangement then we could have a better chance of palying finals for many years.
We had the worst draw of any team so far.
If the AFL were honest in their fixture arrangement then we could have a better chance of palying finals for many years.
If the AFL fixturing went on the same way, we would play all of Collingwood (top 4) Carlton (top 8), Hawthorn (finals contender), Richmond (Basket case on the improve), one of West Coast or Fremantle (who we seem struggle against, have to play interstate teams as well, so could argue the AFL could of added another 2 interstate games), as well as playing some so - so teams in North Melbourne, Sydney or Port Adelaide.
Not really a great fixture any ways?
Far from over, keep the faith :thumbsu:
Hear, hear!
TheDon35
24 Jun 2010, 07:22
We had the worst draw of any team so far.
If the AFL were honest in their fixture arrangement then we could have a better chance of palying finals for many years.
Pointless arguement. The fixture swings in roundabouts anyway. When you loose to West Coast and Port, you can hardly blame the draw.
Anyway, i'd far preffer to play big games against big clubs as much as possible. Better money for the club, better atmosphere for the fans and better experience for the players.
If we can't genuinely mix it with the big boys consistently on the big stage as Geelong have, we are not going to win a flag.
HurleyLegend
24 Jun 2010, 14:23
Pointless arguement. The fixture swings in roundabouts anyway. When you loose to West Coast and Port, you can hardly blame the draw.
Anyway, i'd far preffer to play big games against big clubs as much as possible. Better money for the club, better atmosphere for the fans and better experience for the players.
If we can't genuinely mix it with the big boys consistently on the big stage as Geelong have, we are not going to win a flag.
We just need to get on a roll. we are not stuffed. we are a good team that will push for 7-8th spot
Playing Ade will be super tough. I don't think you can consider them a weaker side much anymore, they are starting to get back to their 09 form.
I don't think we stuffed out year up by losing to the Hawks, loses against WCE, Port and Freo at home will hurt us more at the end of the year. Hawks are on of the form team of the comp.
We need to win 4/4 the next month to get back with a chance.
ilovegussy
25 Jun 2010, 17:36
Just keep going there is no point in worrying about the ladder now.
Bomberman86
28 Jun 2010, 12:31
as bad as it is to say this i wish welsh and hank would get injured for the rest of the season...we play so much better without them in the side. this way howlett or even myers can come in and play an attacking tagging role and the likes of atko, dyson, and dempsey can settle on a HBF/wing giving us more zip...this is our strength no doubt, and knights has ****ed our team balance a number of times with bad selections fielding slow teams and cost us games.
that said i defo have faith that we can get 7 of our next 9..our last 2mths of footy has been encouraging excluding the geelong loss and we do have a favourable(ish) run home. here's hoping we can string some Ws together!
H Slattery is the most irritating player I have ever had the displeasure of watching.. but its not right to wish injury on any player whether from your team or not. Having said that you are totally on the ball, Slattery doesnt deserve his spot based on his performances alone. Welsh puts in a good effort but we are stagnant when he is in the midfield.
resurrector
28 Jun 2010, 15:01
H Slattery is the most irritating player I have ever had the displeasure of watching.. but its not right to wish injury on any player whether from your team or not. Having said that you are totally on the ball, Slattery doesnt deserve his spot based on his performances alone. Welsh puts in a good effort but we are stagnant when he is in the midfield.
yeah i realise its shithouse form to wish injury upon players, but given slattery and welsh are pretty much automatic locks in knights' team when fit does make one yearn (somewhat immorraly) for injury/suspension....having slattery and welsh on the field completely works against our strengths of fast, fluid ball movement and the unnerving pressure on the man with the ball.
Smyth94
28 Jun 2010, 20:29
yeah i realise its shithouse form to wish injury upon players, but given slattery and welsh are pretty much automatic locks in knights' team when fit does make one yearn (somewhat immorraly) for injury/suspension....having slattery and welsh on the field completely works against our strengths of fast, fluid ball movement and the unnerving pressure on the man with the ball.
I saw your comments RE: Slattery and Welsh - I would've banned you on the spot had I had the power.
That's the most disgraceful comment I've ever read on BigFooty and that's saying something :thumbsd: