View Full Version : Whats the problem?
HULK HOGAN
3 Jul 2010, 21:17
What are we doing wrong? Why cant we mix it with the big boys?
Is it drafting? Is it player development? Is is the way we set up the structure and gameplan?
I know we have alot of players injured or suspended but it seems to be the same problems time and time again!
To me the two things that stick out most is that we seem two have more than enough flanker type players and not enough stong bodied running players that play on ball.
The other thing is over the last few weeks I can't understand our forward set up, every time we kick to the key forwards it seems to be near the boundry line!
thoughts?
Back to the footy hope we have more luck in the 2nd half.
Everyone's fault expect for the players.
HULK HOGAN
3 Jul 2010, 21:20
Everyone's fault expect for the players.
Are the players up to the task?
BomberGal
3 Jul 2010, 21:21
SACK KNIGHTS
:rolleyes:
The players don't care, aren't accountable, won't take responsibility for their actions, won't help each other out, won't play for each other. When they're on fire, they're awesome together. But as soon as they lose a touch of confidence, it all falls apart.
HULK HOGAN
3 Jul 2010, 21:26
Ive just got the feeling theres gonna be some serious stuff going on at Essendon in the coming weeks alot of "PLEASE EXPLAINS" at least!
As Tippet kicks his 5th
repeat what i said elsewhere
these people crowing 'dont blame the coach' need a reality check
it may not be 'all' about the coach, but without doubt that individual is the most important cog in the wheel
disagree? theres a reason why only a select few succeed, some prove their worth once, some twice, some become legends (yes you know who i mean), & the rest for whatever reason cant cut it
wish knights had been the one, but its standing out now like the proverbial dogs knackers - he AINT
lemon chicken
3 Jul 2010, 21:31
Was encouraged by the fact we actually started the game with a few centre clearances and midfielders on the move to recieve the ball instead of flat footed but when then kicked it to forward line that hasnt functioned in 2 years it went downhill pretty quick. We really on mid sized players and resting midfielders to kick all the goals. Yet to see any kind of fwd structure that looks like kicking a good score week after week. Has Williams played with both Gumby and Hurley in the side? Lot of pressure on 2 kids to kick a bag to get us over the line.
HULK HOGAN
3 Jul 2010, 21:36
Was encouraged by the fact we actually started the game with a few centre clearances and midfielders on the move to recieve the ball instead of flat footed but when then kicked it to forward line that hasnt functioned in 2 years it went downhill pretty quick. We really on mid sized players and resting midfielders to kick all the goals. Yet to see any kind of fwd structure that looks like kicking a good score week after week. Has Williams played with both Gumby and Hurley in the side? Lot of pressure on 2 kids to kick a bag to get us over the line.
Yes, why hasnt Williams really fired a shot? Obviously his mental attitude isn't right, we knew that before we drafted him SURELY. What have we done to work on it?
Good points.
lemon chicken
3 Jul 2010, 21:48
Yes, why hasnt Williams really fired a shot? Obviously his mental attitude isn't right, we knew that before we drafted him SURELY. What have we done to work on it?
Good points.
Injury wouldnt have helped, i would of played him in the dreamtime game, one confidence booster could have changed everything.
Tre Bones
3 Jul 2010, 22:01
I don't get it. We can take it to the Bulldogs and St Kilda, then get thrashed by Collingwood, Geelong etc.
What I do know it that it needs to be identified, whether that's structure, endurance, gameplan, coaching/ support staff etc or a combination of things. It needs to be identified and addressed because things could quite easily go from bad to worse for us from this point.
repeat what i said elsewhere
these people crowing 'dont blame the coach' need a reality check
it may not be 'all' about the coach, but without doubt that individual is the most important cog in the wheel
disagree? theres a reason why only a select few succeed, some prove their worth once, some twice, some become legends (yes you know who i mean), & the rest for whatever reason cant cut it
wish knights had been the one, but its standing out now like the proverbial dogs knackers - he AINT
As someone who has watched his team promise and then not deliver in the past, there are some similarities to the ordinary CFC years...
Not sure the coach is to blame at all...
Carlton had nothing until we built depth in our midfield which is where your side is lacking... Not sure that Stanton, Prismal, Lovett-Murray, Reimers, Dyson, Zara, Weinders, Jetta are going to be good enough to really improve your midfield...
Your talls are really good as is Jobe but not sure your mids and small forwards are up to getting the side into the top 6ish teams in the comp...
Just an outsiders point of view guys...
Coach needs the cattle to improve the result...
blighty just opined that the 1st person that should have a look at themselves after such a flogging is the coach, might be into something
As someone who has watched his team promise and then not deliver in the past, there are some similarities to the ordinary CFC years...
Not sure the coach is to blame at all...
Carlton had nothing until we built depth in our midfield which is where your side is lacking... Not sure that Stanton, Prismal, Lovett-Murray, Reimers, Dyson, Zara, Weinders, Jetta are going to be good enough to really improve your midfield...
Your talls are really good as is Jobe but not sure your mids and small forwards are up to getting the side into the top 6ish teams in the comp...
Just an outsiders point of view guys...
Coach needs the cattle to improve the result...
& your still no good, whats your point?:confused:
signboy4
3 Jul 2010, 22:21
just worry cfc mate, how would you possibly know where essendon is at! your still trying to work out where carlton are going!
BomberGal
3 Jul 2010, 22:22
& your still no good, whats your point?:confused:
Think his (her?) last sentence was the point. I wouldn't argue that we have no depth, but goreds made some good points. A lot of those players mentioned aren't giving consistent performances to push us anywhere.
& your still no good, whats your point?:confused:
Ah well, was trying to open your eyes a bit to the larger problem of your midfield instead of blaming the coach without the rivalry but.....
All the best for the rest of your season stugots, all 8 weeks...
Ah well, was trying to open your eyes a bit to the larger problem of your midfield instead of blaming the coach without the rivalry but.....
All the best for the rest of your season stugots, all 8 weeks...
oh, thanks, i was clueless until your insightful post:rolleyes:
Jonesy1987
3 Jul 2010, 22:36
We need to take the rest of the season off and hit the gym, we are consistently out bodied, even most of our senior players are weak over the ball.
oh, thanks, i was clueless until your insightful post:rolleyes:
Settle. He just gave an honest opinion.
I agree with him 100%.
Our midfield is a disgrace and has been for years. We will never consistently win games when we cannot win the clearances and get the ball into our forward 50 enough times and with efficiency, no matter how our KPP's come on.
james_omahoney
3 Jul 2010, 22:37
I've made up my mind about Knights. I know it's not 'cool' on bf to bag him, but I think this year should be his last (I know his contract extends beyond this year, just saying). I don't blame him for the loss, but he's largely responsible for the performances in these interstate shellackings.
The match selections are not up to scratch and he's also partly to blame.
Why wasn't Slattery immediately dragged for his 50m penalty? That is unforgivable from the coach and says a lot about his ability to take control on game day.
He never seems to be proactive in the box. He just looks to be an observer. It is so frustrating in games like these.
Settle. He just gave an honest opinion.
I agree with him 100%.
Our midfield is a disgrace and has been for years. We will never consistently win games when we cannot win the clearances and get the ball into our forward 50 enough times and with efficiency, no matter how our KPP's come on.
no shit & i need carlton supporters telling me that on the bomber board:rolleyes:
signboy4
3 Jul 2010, 22:45
the midfield isnt the greatest! but it is the far from the problem! them players mentioned have mixed it with the best teams and got us over the line. alot more other problems to deal with first! WHY CANT WE WIN WHEN WE TRAVEL! OVER USING THE BALL! PLAY FOR EACH OTHER! THE LIST COULD GO ON AND ON
Its the midfield, we go in there with the same players every week
expecting a different result. Our defenders which I rate basically have the toughest job in football. The amount of ball that goes into our defensive 50 under no pressure is a disgrace. None of our midfield apart from Jobe is should be guaranteed games. It time for our midfield to be rebuilt and there are players on our list who we need to find out if they can make a decent fist of it. The following would be a start,
Zaka
Dempsey
Reimers
Houli
Jetta
Melksham (who is already starting there)
Our forwards seem to always be outnumbered 3-1, you'd think we had buddy in there. Also there needs to be a chain around Hurley's leg 20 meters in length attached to the goal post coz I am sick seeing a rare ball going quick and deep into our fifty and no one there to contest.:thumbsd:
Their are many problems:
Gameplan relies on attacking run from half back - Yet apart from Hocking we cannot find a player that can perform this role and still be competentent defensively.
Gameplan relies on having outriders that run forward of the ball - Yet we are one of the poorest skilled sides so when we turn it over the opposition (who are better skilled) get to run it back through the corridor.
We have two key forwards that have played 10 games.
We only have one inside midfielder - The big issue I have with this particular issue is we dont seem to be grooming anyone else for this role
However gameplan aside our midfield is just not AFL standard. Its the single reason new coach or not that we are not going to make let alone win finals.
Jonesy1987
3 Jul 2010, 22:53
Also there needs to be a chain around Hurley's leg 20 meters in length attached to the goal post coz I am sick seeing a rare ball going quick and deep into our fifty and no one there to contest.:thumbsd:
It perplexes me to say the least, I have no idea why Gumbleton starts deep and Hurley starts further up the ground.
For one Gumbleton can't take a mark with body contact and can't kick accurately at goal, whereas Hurley is the polar opposite. Gumbleton has the huge engine and has the great dukes out in the front, whereas Hurley seems a little more lumbering and not as fit. Also Hurleys ability to pick up a short pass and dish off quickly would be great closer to goal, see Lonergan's goal in the Hawks game late last year.
signboy4
3 Jul 2010, 22:54
Courtney dempsey is an attacking half back player! but we continue to keep naming henry stattery! and dempsey emg
sen entertainment bloke
3 Jul 2010, 22:54
We are nonsense but, with respect of Adelaide, there is a bit of karma bus going on from giving that big win to StKilda 08 round 22.
The problem is probably as simple as taking Knights over Hardwicke.
redandblackbomba
3 Jul 2010, 22:59
A coach that can sit in the box and smile at the crap being dished up. Would Bomba Thompson, Ross Lyon, Mick Malthouse do what Knights did?
Our midfield is slow Jobe, Welsh, NLM and Winderlich. Winderlich is the only one with any pace and he butchered it tonight.
Stanton should go wherever Knights goes as long as it's far away from the EFC.
A coach that can sit in the box and smile at the crap being dished up. Would Bomba Thompson, Ross Lyon, Mick Malthouse do what Knights did?
Our midfield is slow Jobe, Welsh, NLM and Winderlich. Winderlich is the only one with any pace and he butchered it tonight.
Stanton should go wherever Knights goes as long as it's far away from the EFC.
Dean Laidley got super angry in the box and they propelled North to absolute nowhere.
What does being a hot-head have to do with coaching ability?
You can be emotional without losing your cool and also be a good coach with a calm head.
ManWithNoName
4 Jul 2010, 00:50
Ray Horsburgh circa 2007:
"We want someone who has been part of success, a team culture of success and Vossy's been in that, but one of the other criteria is we want someone who has coached a premiership team or coached a successful team and he wouldn't have met that one," Horsburgh said.
Good to see he stuck to his beliefs and hired someone who fit that criteria. Oh wait.
bombre-boy
4 Jul 2010, 01:07
Aside from being probably the most predictable team in the AFL, our average skills, useless interstate travel record, stange selection stratagies, i reckon due to the suposed run and run gameplan that seems to be adopted for the whole year, we are buggered. We just look tired..
Cant say we didnt see this one coming...
Dont think Knights is the answer, we should cut our ties at years end, but he should not be the only one...Campo, o'donnell, prescott, hickmont also should be let go.
bombersno1
4 Jul 2010, 02:15
Midfield is the BIGGEST issue, and unfortuantely our drafting in that key area has been abysmal, not to mention Knights not playing Myers there when he plays. Honestly I would be all for offering Stanton, Winderlich and a few others up for trade to try and get another first round pick this year. If we don't pick 4 midfielders in the draft this year I will kill someone!
Eleven 38
4 Jul 2010, 03:50
i agree the problem is midfield, but we always build our side around KPP, now we have them and they are all under 21 im sure midfield will be the targets in the draft,
yes carlton have a great midfield now, but they will all be past it by the time they have any decent KPP players, i think we are going the right way about it but we are still 4-5years off where we can get everyone playing consistently well together.
lemon chicken
4 Jul 2010, 07:58
He never seems to be proactive in the box. He just looks to be an observer. It is so frustrating in games like these.
This. It like he's watching a movie with a bucket of pop-corn in one hand. Everytime they crossed to our box hes just sitting there shaking his head without even having the headphones on. Does he actually speak to the bench or is just about set rotations and giving everyone a rest. He did not coach the side last night, he may as well of watched from his lounge. Blight said very early on when asked by another commentator what he would do, he said straight away Knights has to start making changes. Took him till half time to make any signifigant kind of change.
Some things that are wrong:
*Guys like H.Slat, Lonergan, McVeigh and to a lesser extent Welsh are struggling yet continue to get games
*Our forward line is not working, Gumby lacks confidence kicking yet Knights refuses to restructure it or play M.Williams or Neagle??
*Winders, Prismall, Welsh key mid-fielders for us, but are C grade at best. Stanton desont seem focused - is he off to the G.Coast...???
*Fletcher, Hille, Pears, Monfries out hurt us against Crows
I had to turn off the end of the Crows game in disgust. Some hard decsions need to made at selection this week, we need to restructure our forward line, and give players a go who for various reasons have been overlooked - ie M.Williams, Myers, Neagle, Dempsey, Houli etc etc. If we keep doing the same thing and playing the same players we will continue to keep getting the same results.
theresnocashhere
4 Jul 2010, 09:34
Sheeds writes an article in todays sun about Geelong. A constant theme is loyalty. Sadly when coaches create a rapport with a player, its hard for them to deliver the brutal truth (Sheeds love affair with Aaron Henneman is a prime example- that guy played five years longer than he should have.)
As poorly as McVeigh, Welsh, Slattery, Stanton are going, I can't see any of them being delisted due to their r'ship with the coach.
I'm not a huge fan of knights (nor that other richmond spud Prescott) but I understand that a bloke should be given a bit of time. Mark Thomo's record was awful from 2000 to 05. Yet he would now be regarded as a football doyen.
Its easy to jump off when times are tough, and injuries are no excuse, but I'd agree with anyone who says football is a long term project. I may regret this whole post in two years time but any team missing a ruck and fullback is going to be substantially worse off.
Sure, the crows hammer us by 15 goals for the second time in 9months, but when I see Melksham's poise, Watson's integrity ( I must admit I had my doubts as a player let alone a captain three years ago) and Gumbleton's aerial ability (lets face it- last night had Nick Riewoldt written all over it) I think to myself...things just might be alright.
Darealrath
4 Jul 2010, 09:41
We won't be anywhere close to challenging until we have a really good midfield, and it's not even good at the moment, it's probably in the worst two or three in the league.
We also need to stop the stupid selection decisions. Quinn?? We don't have the cattle to do that in must win games.
Wanna B Hird
4 Jul 2010, 09:45
Sheeds writes an article in todays sun about Geelong. A constant theme is loyalty. Sadly when coaches create a rapport with a player, its hard for them to deliver the brutal truth (Sheeds love affair with Aaron Henneman is a prime example- that guy played five years longer than he should have.)
As poorly as McVeigh, Welsh, Slattery, Stanton are going, I can't see any of them being delisted due to their r'ship with the coach.
I'm not a huge fan of knights (nor that other richmond spud Prescott) but I understand that a bloke should be given a bit of time. Mark Thomo's record was awful from 2000 to 05. Yet he would now be regarded as a football doyen.
Its easy to jump off when times are tough, and injuries are no excuse, but I'd agree with anyone who says football is a long term project. I may regret this whole post in two years time but any team missing a ruck and fullback is going to be substantially worse off.
Sure, the crows hammer us by 15 goals for the second time in 9months, but when I see Melksham's poise, Watson's integrity ( I must admit I had my doubts as a player let alone a captain three years ago) and Gumbleton's aerial ability (lets face it- last night had Nick Riewoldt written all over it) I think to myself...things just might be alright.
Great post :thumbsu:
We won't be anywhere close to challenging until we have a really good midfield, and it's not even good at the moment, it's probably in the worst two or three in the league.
We also need to stop the stupid selection decisions. Quinn?? We don't have the cattle to do that in must win games.
Its not Saying we cant win a good game were and there , even might knock a good side off ie st kilda , Dogs but its just not good enough to go the next step ..and win those games week in week out :(
No forward line structure.
Poor Team Selections.
Bad game plan.
How we can have two weeks of planning against a team sitting 15th on the ladder and get destroyed by 84 points defies understanding.
We won't be anywhere close to challenging until we have a really good midfield, and it's not even good at the moment, it's probably in the worst two or three in the league.
We also need to stop the stupid selection decisions. Quinn?? We don't have the cattle to do that in must win games.
Your being kind, name a midfield thats worse.
Darealrath
4 Jul 2010, 10:25
Your being kind, name a midfield thats worse.
Right now West Coast. Maybe Melbourne (though have Scully and Trengove coming through which is frustrating) and Richmond (but they have Cotchin and Martin). Hopefully Melksham, Colyer, Zaha or whoever else is already on our list can take us up a notch but I'm thinking we'll need to make a trade.
Right now West Coast. Maybe Melbourne (though have Scully and Trengove coming through which is frustrating) and Richmond (but they have Cotchin and Martin). Hopefully Melksham, Colyer, Zaha or whoever else is already on our list can take us up a notch but I'm thinking we'll need to make a trade.
Melbourne
Trengove
Scully
McDonald
Jones
Moloney
Gysberts
If its not better right now its has infinitley more upside.
Richmond
Martin
Deledio
Cotchin
Folley
Jackson
Tuck
Tambling
Better today with far more upside
West Coast
Kerr
Priddis
Shuey
Swift
Masten
Ebert
Le Cras
I would say better today with infinitley more upside
Bomber57
4 Jul 2010, 10:48
The List, the coach, the board, and the fu*k wit supporters that think Knights can coach and we have footballers how can play football, we are shit if last night did not prove that then you are ***** ****** ***** :thumbsd:
EFC has to start from scratch or we won't even beat Gold Coast :eek:
How do you analyse that loss to Adelaide? I didn't watch the game (capped and issues with the TV), but I saw the stats this morning. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not a fully stat driven person. Many things you can't quantify by analysing figures, but how is that you lose by 84 points when you have more disposals, tackles, clearances, HOs and only 5 behind in CPs?
Mind-boggling.
WeAreEssendon
4 Jul 2010, 12:22
How do you analyse that loss to Adelaide? I didn't watch the game (capped and issues with the TV), but I saw the stats this morning. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not a fully stat driven person. Many things you can't quantify by analysing figures, but how is that you lose by 84 points when you have more disposals, tackles, clearances, HOs and only 5 behind in CPs?
Mind-boggling.
Did you check the stat for inside 50's? 32 for the whole game. Deplorable.
james_omahoney
4 Jul 2010, 12:58
I remember kelvin sheedy wrote a thread once about inside 50s being the stat that matters. Obviously there's a lot more to it, but games like these show you how important it is for the midfield to get the ball moving forward. Sound obvious, but our midfield was pathetic last night.
Skeeta Olly
4 Jul 2010, 13:12
Mentality.
I haven't watched the game in full, but no doubt when Adelaide got that run on in the first, we cracked.
Yeah I saw a major discrepancy with the i50s. Winning the ball not that much of an issue but using it? The case for elite outside midfielders only continues to grow.
Ludwig van Bertstare
4 Jul 2010, 13:20
Earlier this year I said ANZAC Day was the worst loss I've ever seen. I change my mind to this game.
The problem I keep noticing is the rebounds from our 50. It seems that we rush past the opposition through the midfield but when it gets stopped by their defenders we've left their midfielders wide open to easily get the ball to their forwards and they get easy goals. This happened in the first quarter last night and they got so many easy goals that we ended up 7 goals behind and lost all motivation. That's only 1 issue but it's very frustrating.
Skeeta Olly
4 Jul 2010, 15:30
They also tore apart our midfield and whatever 'zone' we were trying to apply. At half-back they'd switch the ball and have players running hard into space and someone ended up being two on one (Adelaide's way). The first person would get the ball and draw the man, then pass it over the top to the free man and they'd hit someone inside 50.
We do not have enough skillful players in our side..
As silly as it sounds, we are truly going no where with a lot of players in our side..
No need to say who, will get bashed for it.
How many unskillful players are there in the Geelong side? in the St.Kilda side, in the Collingwood side now?
Hardly any, we have a lot of so - so players with iffy disposal..
Pocket_Pears
5 Jul 2010, 10:48
When we were winning games it was because we were going direct to our forward line. We had players at half forward ready to continue the chain of disposals to get the ball into our forward 50.
I didn't see any of that on Saturday. Every time we got about 70-80 metres from goal, we would either kick to a contest involving one of our small forwards who were easily outmarked, or just blazed away and ended up kicking to a lone Adelaide player.
We need our key forwards to lead out and start taking marks at half forward, and not have to rely on Davey or Jetta to win marking contests at this position instead.
And the reason for this?
We were playing too many slow defenders in McVeigh, H Slattery & Quinn. So our wings were pushing back to provide run off half back and our half forwards were pushing up to the wing, leaving no one at half forward!
Drop H Slattery and Quinn and bring in 2 of Dempsey, Houli or Atkinson.
Also bring in another key forward if Hurley has to play in the backline with Fletch & Pears out. Williams or Neagle to play in the square letting Gumby run around at half forward.