View Full Version : Muttiah Muralitharan, the offspinning wizard to cast his last spell
Gazza_11
6 Jul 2010, 22:38
Muralitharan retires from international cricket (http://www.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/current/story/466299.html)
Muttiah Muralitharan, the leading wicket-taker in Tests and ODIs, will retire from international cricket after the first Test against India in Galle, which begins on July 18. While he will not play ODIs any longer, Murali will be available if the team needs him for the 2011 World Cup, which Sri Lanka is co-hosting.
The decision to retire was taken after a team meeting last week. He is in consultation with senior board officials to formalise the move. Murali has taken 792 wickets in 132 Tests and 515 wickets in 337 ODIs. Galle will be an interesting shot at retiring with 800 Test wickets.
About a year ago, Murali had announced he would retire after the home series against West Indies late this year, but in November last year he said he could advance the Test retirement. "I am 37 years old and I can't bowl as much as those days because I get tired after 15-16 overs," he had told Cricinfo then. "But I will try and play a little bit of one-day cricket - that's only 10 overs to bowl. If I find everything is not going well I might retire from both forms of the game before the World Cup."
Muralitharan retires from international cricket (http://www.cricinfo.com/srilanka/content/current/story/466299.html)
The end of a great career. I though he was meant to retire later in the year but obviously not. Shane Warne will be like "Finally!"
I really hope he plays the world cup.
A truly great player, top 2 spinners of all time, and obviously the best off spinner. Big fan of this guy, great career.
DeadlyAkkuret
6 Jul 2010, 22:49
Shane Warne to make a comeback.
delirious1
6 Jul 2010, 23:44
I predict i know whats comming from your typical one eyed bogan aussie
However, Easily one of the best bowlers you will ever see in action, sure he took about 900 odd wickets against teams like zimbabwe/bangladesh but he was one of the greatest spinners ever.
Terrific Career
courtjester
7 Jul 2010, 05:59
I predict i know whats comming from your typical one eyed bogan aussie
However, Easily one of the best bowlers you will ever see in action, sure he took about 900 odd wickets against teams like zimbabwe/bangladesh but he was one of the greatest spinners ever.
Terrific Career
The fact is I consider him a rule breaker and I would not choose him in any all-time team. I guess I am a one eyed bogan Aussie. And doesn't the fact that he took so many wickets against Zim and Ban mean something really?
Kim Hagdorn
7 Jul 2010, 13:35
Noooooooooo!
King Elvis
7 Jul 2010, 14:32
The fact is I consider him a rule breaker and I would not choose him in any all-time team.
I'm the same, but I blame the ICC, not Murali himself.
He's been very good, for a very long time.
Yaaablett
7 Jul 2010, 14:39
I predict i know whats comming from your typical one eyed bogan aussie
However, Easily one of the best bowlers you will ever see in action, sure he took about 900 odd wickets against teams like zimbabwe/bangladesh but he was one of the greatest spinners ever.
Terrific Career
What a pathetic way to attempt to stop people with a different point of view to you posting.
At last the greatest disgrace in cricket history is finishing up. Not Murali's fault at all and seems a very nice guy.
The ICC has almost succeeded in stuffing cricket up and amongst many mistakes allowing this bloke to continue to play is by far the greatest. Should have been banished when he was no-balled by Hair and co in the mid 90's.
Good riddance.
One of the legends, IMO. Whether or not his action is suspect didn't stop me enjoying him bowl. Hope he get's his 800 against the backdrop of Galle.
ballanFYNE
7 Jul 2010, 16:01
I will miss seeing his Eyes in the mood when bowling.
Belnakor
7 Jul 2010, 17:01
The fact is I consider him a rule breaker and I would not choose him in any all-time team. I guess I am a one eyed bogan Aussie. And doesn't the fact that he took so many wickets against Zim and Ban mean something really?
Take out the wickets against Zim and Bangas, and all the wickets he took on doctored pitches and you see a very different picture.
I think Muralis record on Australian soil, the benchmark in his era should not be forgotten, its 2x worse than Warnes in India, and Muralis in india isn't that crash hot either.
Ill Chicken
7 Jul 2010, 17:02
The fact is I consider him a rule breaker and I would not choose him in any all-time team.
I feel the same of him and Warne, neither should be considered really.
you cant blame or hold anything against Murali for all the controversary that surrounded him.....
however there was a period which i will hold against him and that was the one where he tried to play the sympathy card about not playing in australia and tried to drag australian cricket through the mud. Real champions and legends excel with off field situations and thats something that puts him behind Warne.
great record never the less, one that probaly will never get broken with the way test cricket is on the decline. And seriously I look forward to seeing how he is globally judged once he retires and people dont feel the pressure of media backlash and politics, cause it seems a lot of people around the world have been biting their tounge.
Gazza_11
7 Jul 2010, 18:00
Sorry for the gay title guys :p
I'll always rate Warne higher, due to personal opinion which probably comes off bias. Revolutionized the rules to a large extent, as the ICC catered the 'degrees you can bend your arm rule' for him. But nonetheless a genius cricketer.
delirious1
8 Jul 2010, 01:03
Revolutionized the rules to a large extent, as the ICC catered the 'degrees you can bend your arm rule' for him. But nonetheless a genius cricketer.
You know that they found that 98% of cricketers were cheating and breaking the % rule of bending your elbow right?
I predict i know whats comming from your typical one eyed bogan aussie
However, Easily one of the best bowlers you will ever see in action, sure he took about 900 odd wickets against teams like zimbabwe/bangladesh but he was one of the greatest spinners ever.
Terrific Career
Seems to fit me profile so here we go.
Bloody chucker had nothing on Warnie, will be good to see him bowl one last no ball.
Yaaablett
8 Jul 2010, 08:53
You know that they found that 98% of cricketers were cheating and breaking the % rule of bending your elbow right?
That is an absolute lie. Getting deperate and sad now.
Nice headling in the HUN today, summing up most Australians feelings:
"Murali throws it in".
Belnakor
8 Jul 2010, 13:15
You know that they found that 98% of cricketers were cheating and breaking the % rule of bending your elbow right?
This is bullshit. 98% of cricketers had some flex in their elbow. Noone was throwing every delivery. If the evidence was so conclusive (the only "oh, now i've seen *that* i can see why everyone chucks... no... you can't look at it") why haven't we seen it.
Muralis Doosra was proven to be thrown in lab conditions until he modified his action. Anyone who says he didn't chuck at least some of his deliveries is living in a fantasy land.
Muralis average away from home, excluding Zim and Bangas is 252 wickets @ 28.78 which doesn't compare that favourably to Warne's 372 wickets @ 24.56. Part of the reason i'll always consider Warne to be the superior bowler in all conditions.
Murali
http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/49636.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;opposition =1;opposition=2;opposition=3;opposition=4;opposition=5;oppos ition=6;opposition=7;orderby=default;template=results;type=b owling
Warne
http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/8166.html?class=1;filter=advanced;home_or_away=2;home_or_awa y=3;opposition=1;opposition=140;opposition=3;opposition=4;op position=5;opposition=6;opposition=7;opposition=8;orderby=de fault;template=results;type=bowling
You know that they found that 98% of cricketers were cheating and breaking the % rule of bending your elbow right?
have you seen the footage of Murali bowling in the nets under observation?
his arm can stay pretty straight when he wants it to be.
Radical Roo
8 Jul 2010, 16:25
The fact is I consider him a rule breaker and I would not choose him in any all-time team. I guess I am a one eyed bogan Aussie. And doesn't the fact that he took so many wickets against Zim and Ban mean something really?
hehehehe, typical sour grape loser aussie, i like to see you taking a wicket against Bang or Zim or even against a local club cricket team.
Plus there is no scientific evidence to prove that chucking actually makes you a better bowler, in fact it hinders your bowling effectiveness.
Reason, i tried this by myself. I tried the chucking movement in my bowling of pace and spin and it was both considerably more difficult than natural bowling actions.
Whats worse chucking or taking steriods to recover from an injury which would have ended your career. ?
Maybe Kumble is the best spinner of this generation. But then he only took wickets at home.
I guess Phil Tufnell it is then.
King Elvis
8 Jul 2010, 17:25
hehehehe, typical sour grape loser aussie, i like to see you taking a wicket against Bang or Zim or even against a local club cricket team.
Plus there is no scientific evidence to prove that chucking actually makes you a better bowler, in fact it hinders your bowling effectiveness.
Reason, i tried this by myself. I tried the chucking movement in my bowling of pace and spin and it was both considerably more difficult than natural bowling actions.
Strong evidence.
courtjester
8 Jul 2010, 17:51
hehehehe, typical sour grape loser aussie, i like to see you taking a wicket against Bang or Zim or even against a local club cricket team.
Plus there is no scientific evidence to prove that chucking actually makes you a better bowler, in fact it hinders your bowling effectiveness.
Reason, i tried this by myself. I tried the chucking movement in my bowling of pace and spin and it was both cnsiderably more difficult than natural bowling actions.
Dont call me a loser. And if you'd like you can come and see me take some local wickets any Saturday in summer.
Dont post crap and say it's scientific.
I tried chucking like Murali does, and found it made my offie turn about three times the amount it normally does. Problem is it's against the rules.
Kim Hagdorn
8 Jul 2010, 19:16
Plus there is no scientific evidence to prove that chucking actually makes you a better bowler, in fact it hinders your bowling effectiveness.
That's a load of shit, you can't be serious?
Gazza_11
8 Jul 2010, 19:19
I tried chucking like Murali does, and found it made my offie turn about three times the amount it normally does. Problem is it's against the rules.
Ditto.
I tried using Murali's action and it didn't land on the pitch.
Maybe if I had those wrists.....
the way Murali bowls is not against the rules. Why cant people get that through their thicks heads. If it was he wouldn't be allowed to bowl.
Every bowler in the world has the same rules applied to them yet none of them have 1300 international wickets.
Anyone who says they bowled like Murali and got 3 times more turn or whatever, are full of it. If you did and could control it and say with the rules like he does you would bowl like that all the time. The truth you dont have hios ability that why you play local cricket and he has 1300 wickets.
I tried chucking like Murali does, and found it made my offie turn about three times the amount it normally does. Problem is it's against the rules.
You know when i took steroids my leggies spun way more and my flipper became deadly accurate.
Cousin Jed
8 Jul 2010, 21:53
Play nice now...
I've just been thinking about this....would chucking even help a spinner that much? The greatest benefit of chucking is increased pace, so not much help for a spinner, and spin comes from the wrist/fingers, not your elbow.
Thewlis Dish
8 Jul 2010, 22:11
I always thought he gets such a freakish amount of spin because his wrists are double jointed, rather than his elbow bent.
I've just been thinking about this....would chucking even help a spinner that much? The greatest benefit of chucking is increased pace, so not much help for a spinner, and spin comes from the wrist/fingers, not your elbow.
yes it does, chucking allows your wrists to rotate faster then when you bowl straight meaning you can generated more fizz through the air. guys do it at training all the time and they can spin it a fair bit.
DeadlyAkkuret
9 Jul 2010, 00:29
I predict i know whats comming from your typical one eyed bogan aussie
However, Easily one of the best bowlers you will ever see in action, sure he took about 900 odd wickets against teams like zimbabwe/bangladesh but he was one of the greatest spinners ever.
Terrific Career
Preemptive bullshit like that is pathetic, do you think anyone is going to be scared to express their honest opinion of Murali because of the aforementioned bogan label?
I don't see anyone in this thread suggesting that whoever lauds Muralitharan is a typical biased subcontinent fanboy.
triplejdude
9 Jul 2010, 07:56
Seems every newspaper had some sort of Murali related headline on the back page today. The West had 'Murali chucks it in'. Many lulz were had.
courtjester
9 Jul 2010, 08:46
the way Murali bowls is not against the rules. Why cant people get that through their thicks heads. If it was he wouldn't be allowed to bowl.
Every bowler in the world has the same rules applied to them yet none of them have 1300 international wickets.
Anyone who says they bowled like Murali and got 3 times more turn or whatever, are full of it. If you did and could control it and say with the rules like he does you would bowl like that all the time. The truth you dont have hios ability that why you play local cricket and he has 1300 wickets.
If you dont think the ICC bent over to allow Murali's bowling to be "legal", you're naive. It was very important that Sri Lanka was competitive in tests, and Murali made them competitive. So conveniently, the rules were bent and wangled to suit Murali's bowling style.
I never said I had anything like Murali's bowling ability, straw man. I said that if you straighten your bent arm as you bowl an offie, it turns about three times as much. It's basic biomechanics! I'm not saying I could control it or anything, just saying it turns a lot more.
Yaaablett
9 Jul 2010, 08:46
the way Murali bowls is not against the rules. Why cant people get that through their thicks heads. If it was he wouldn't be allowed to bowl.
Bingo! Get that bullet out of your foot champ.
His action was deemed to be against the rules by several experienced umpires, (not to mention most cricket experts and all sane people). While the ICC buckled under the extreme pressure and procrastinated about making a decision Murali continued to play and continued to take wickets.
Eventually the ICC were in a no win situation. If they banned him they would look incompetent for allowing him to continue playing and alter series results through his "bowling". If they allowed him to continue they would look like, well what they look like now- an organisation where the tail wags the dog. That tail is also known as India and their good friends Sri Lanka.
So they changed the rules, and now allow a greater % of bend in the elbow which suits one player.
For those deperados saying the flex in his elbow doesnt help him. His doosra is impossible without severly bending his elbow then snapping it back as the ball leaves the hand.
Funny how you guys argue his action is legal, then as the argument develops, you say how it doesnt help him anyway! Then the typical Aussie insults and Shane Warne insults slip in.
Suits the pro-chuckers this argument. We think he's a disgrace to the once great game of cricket and are over the moon that he's retiring, even if its 15 years too late.
You poor buggers have to continually defend your idol, who you must know cheats.
The other sad part is the Australians who just simply hate Australians. They're not even really interested in Murali, just salivate at the opportunity to bag Ponting, Symonds, Warne, McGrath etc at every opportunity. You know the ones- Upper class wannabe's that think they have some intellectual relevance if they spew out their distaste for the "aggressive, boorish aussies". Pathetic.
Belnakor
9 Jul 2010, 12:47
I've just been thinking about this....would chucking even help a spinner that much? The greatest benefit of chucking is increased pace, so not much help for a spinner, and spin comes from the wrist/fingers, not your elbow.
I was reading somewhere, the reason why chucking is very effective as a spinner is that it allows you to vary your pace significantly without significantly changing your bowling action. ie: a small bend in your arm gives you a big boost in pace which is hard to pick up as a batsman.
Botha from SA varies his pace significantly.. he also chucks.
NOONE can consistantly bowl a legal doosra even within 15' the way Murali bowls it. Thats why him and Harbi keep getting pulled up for chucking.
Belnakor
9 Jul 2010, 12:50
Whats worse chucking or taking steriods to recover from an injury which would have ended your career. ?
that is complete bullshit. end his career? the substance he took isn't even on the banned list anymore.
Ill Chicken
9 Jul 2010, 12:58
that is complete bullshit. end his career? the substance he took isn't even on the banned list anymore.
Cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
warne was a gun well before he took the so called 'steroids'
Muralis average was hanging near 30 near the end of the 90's, suprising it went downhill fast once when he was given the license to chuck.
Kim Hagdorn
9 Jul 2010, 13:48
Botha from SA varies his pace significantly.. he also chucks.
Botha's action is a disgrace.
Ill Chicken
9 Jul 2010, 14:10
warne was a gun well before he took the so called 'steroids'
Muralis average was hanging near 30 near the end of the 90's, suprising it went downhill fast once when he was given the license to chuck.
Warne was a match cheat well before he took steroids too.
Warne was a match cheat well before he took steroids too.
warne was a gun well before he was a so called 'match cheat'
Belnakor
9 Jul 2010, 14:34
Warne was a match cheat well before he took steroids too.
steroids? now now now. lets not put the cart before the horse. Before he took a diuretic.
steroids? now now now. lets not put the cart before the horse. Before he took a diuretic.
it was to mask all the steroids he was pumping into him i think :D
Ill Chicken
9 Jul 2010, 14:51
warne was a gun well before he was a so called 'match cheat'
Yes again, cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
Belnakor
9 Jul 2010, 14:53
Yes again, cognitive dissonance at it's finest.
seriously did you just do Psych 101?
Ill Chicken
9 Jul 2010, 14:57
seriously did you just do Psych 101?
Nope. I'm just sick of the hypocrisy when it comes to lauding/comparing Warne and Murali.
Belnakor
9 Jul 2010, 15:11
I'm still not sure how being a "match cheat" does for the argument. Surely if you are fixing matches you take money to play badly, not well.
Warne and Murali have incredibly similiar records, if you take out minnow teams, the only difference is someone was at some point, breaking the rules of the game with every delivery they sent down - the rule may have been wrong, but it is 100% true that Murali was breaking the rules for a considerable part of his career for every single delivery he sent down.
Ill Chicken
9 Jul 2010, 15:53
I'm still not sure how being a "match cheat" does for the argument. Surely if you are fixing matches you take money to play badly, not well.
Warne and Murali have incredibly similiar records, if you take out minnow teams, the only difference is someone was at some point, breaking the rules of the game with every delivery they sent down - the rule may have been wrong, but it is 100% true that Murali was breaking the rules for a considerable part of his career for every single delivery he sent down.
To exemplify Warne's behaviour as above Murali's action is ridiculous. While Murali can be accused of bad sportsmanship, it is the match officials that should take precedent responsibility for being unable to enforce the rules of the game.
falcon54
9 Jul 2010, 17:38
Great statistical comparison of Warne and Murali here.
http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/466589.html
The last sentence sums it up perfectly.
"Most of the numbers above suggest there's little to choose between the two bowlers, which is exactly as it should be when comparing two legends of the game. "
Nope. I'm just sick of the hypocrisy when it comes to lauding/comparing Warne and Murali.
your not sick...
just very bitter :D
Jimthegreat
9 Jul 2010, 18:55
the way Murali bowls is not against the rules. Why cant people get that through their thicks heads. If it was he wouldn't be allowed to bowl.
Every bowler in the world has the same rules applied to them yet none of them have 1300 international wickets.
Anyone who says they bowled like Murali and got 3 times more turn or whatever, are full of it. If you did and could control it and say with the rules like he does you would bowl like that all the time. The truth you dont have hios ability that why you play local cricket and he has 1300 wickets.
This post is funny. Spin and BS!!!!
The reason he's legal is because after he straightened his elbow 14.5 degrees the ICC made a blanket rule of 15 degrees. Funny about that, isn't it! Something to do with the Asian influence on the game. As well, call him a chucker and they play the "race card" quick smart. Not only that, that was in a a lab where he was trying be legal and not take wickets. Once he's passed and away from the lab he'll bowl at whatever degrees of straightening he likes. No-one will dare call him these days.
Don't be so dumb and naive.
Warne was a match cheat well before he took steroids too.
How exactly was Warne a "match-cheat"?
How exactly was Warne a "match-cheat"?
didnt he give away pitch conditions in India with Mark Waugh?
oh the humanity! :D
Ill Chicken
9 Jul 2010, 19:56
Yeah apparently it was his mum's friend.
This post is funny. Spin and BS!!!!
The reason he's legal is because after he straightened his elbow 14.5 degrees the ICC made a blanket rule of 15 degrees. Funny about that, isn't it! Something to do with the Asian influence on the game. As well, call him a chucker and they play the "race card" quick smart. Not only that, that was in a a lab where he was trying be legal and not take wickets. Once he's passed and away from the lab he'll bowl at whatever degrees of straightening he likes. No-one will dare call him these days.
Don't be so dumb and naive.
from wiki but still.
"After biomechanical tests conducted in the 1990s, it was discovered that during a delivery as it rotates around the shoulder, a bowler's arm naturally flexes laterally, and that to comply with the Laws of Cricket at the time and bowl without any flex of the elbow was virtually impossible. Seemingly orthodox actions of bowlers assessed by visual means as legal were all technically illegal. The ICC decided to set a realistic elbow extension limit. This was 10 degrees for fast bowlers, 7.5 degrees for medium pacers, and 5 degrees for spin bowlers.
The ICC carried out a test on all bowlers through video footage during the 2004 Champions Trophy in England. The test brought up some startling results: ninety-nine percent of all bowlers tested were found to flex their elbow to some degree, and often flexed it much greater than the limit set at the time. After a review by an expert panel, the ICC decided to raise the limit to 15 degrees for all bowlers. This limit was chosen as the ICC believed that any flexing of the elbow above 15 degrees would be visibly noticeable"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Throwing_(cricket)
Nothing to do with Murali at all, but hey, you stick to your fairy tales about asian conspiracies if it makes you happy.
Adelaide Hawk
9 Jul 2010, 21:44
Good to see the cheat has retired. :mad:
Belnakor
12 Jul 2010, 12:18
The test brought up some startling results: ninety-nine percent of all bowlers tested were found to flex their elbow to some degree, and often flexed it much greater than the limit set at the time. After a review by an expert panel, the ICC decided to raise the limit to 15 degrees for all bowlers. This limit was chosen as the ICC believed that any flexing of the elbow above 15 degrees would be visibly noticeable"
They deliberately made that quote as clear as mud. Every bowler flexes their elbow minor.. only i think Sarwan from WI had no flex at all (he bowls part time leg spin)... they try to make it imply everyone was breaking the rules.. which is incorrect, i think mcgrath and pollock had flexes of up to 12% on effort balls.. Murali had 14.5% on his stock delivery. big difference.
the_interloper
12 Jul 2010, 15:24
Just in case this hasn't been posted in this thread...
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_sd4aOA0Ur-I/R1SCCmkDBvI/AAAAAAAABCA/T3qDrMy7ptI/s1600-R/Murali.jpg
frankrizzo
13 Jul 2010, 15:18
....
legend166
13 Jul 2010, 18:50
Great statistical comparison of Warne and Murali here.
http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/466589.html
The last sentence sums it up perfectly.
"Most of the numbers above suggest there's little to choose between the two bowlers, which is exactly as it should be when comparing two legends of the game. "
I don't know what's worse - cricinfo or youtube comments.
I lose brain cells every time I read either one.
He will go down as the best spinner of all time and arguably the best bowler of all time. Watching him bowl it looked like he was going to get a wicket every ball. I cannot remember ever seeing a batsmen being ever fully comfortable against him.
Warne was one of the best bowlers to ever play the game. However when comparing him to Murali certain factors have to be taken into account. For starters the argument Murali got cheap wickets again lesser nations is BS as stated above. Secondly always remember for a lot of the time when Warne bowled down the other end was one of the best modern fast bowlers of all time steaming in (McGrath). That just built up pressure and many wickets fell from that alone. Murali never had that privledge.
It really saddens me to see so many single minded tools on this thread banging on about the "chucking" incident. The FACT the law was changed for a reason which for the large part nothing to do with Murali. FACT if you still call him a cheat then I can therefore lead you to the fact the Brett Lee is also a cheat and even McGrath ( I remember reading this somewhere a little while back).
This world will never again see the likes of him bowl again and the day he bowls his last ball in test cricket an era will end.
Cooldude
14 Jul 2010, 02:34
Normally I'd try to stay out of this, but most of what you said are a load of bs, jiphoc
Warnie would've had way more wickets than Murali if he plays 70% of his Tests at home where all the pitches were doctored to suit him like Murali did. Some of the pitch rigging over the years in Sri Lanka just to make them are dust bowl is quite blatant
Then you see Murali coming over to this part of the world in Aus where Warne has dominated throughout his career. His bowling average is closer to the Don's batting average
Then you see Warnie who takes wickets and bowls at his best when his team needs it most. In big matches and big moments, Warnie rarely failed. Murali doesn't deliver on those critical moments as often as Warnie
Anyone can throw out any stats to prove anything, but Warnie will always be above Murali in my book, throwing or no throwing
Normally I'd try to stay out of this, but most of what you said are a load of bs, jiphoc
Warnie would've had way more wickets than Murali if he plays 70% of his Tests at home where all the pitches were doctored to suit him like Murali did. Some of the pitch rigging over the years in Sri Lanka just to make them are dust bowl is quite blatant
Then you see Murali coming over to this part of the world in Aus where Warne has dominated throughout his career. His bowling average is closer to the Don's batting average
Then you see Warnie who takes wickets and bowls at his best when his team needs it most. In big matches and big moments, Warnie rarely failed. Murali doesn't deliver on those critical moments as often as Warnie
Anyone can throw out any stats to prove anything, but Warnie will always be above Murali in my book, throwing or no throwing
Ok get back to me when you actually have watched him bowl outside of when he has played against Australia. My point was trying to pay respect to the guys career NOT comparing him to Warne. I fail to see how you can come out with such big calls against a player with no backing or merit behind them at all. I also see that you have skipped over all the bits in my first post which counter what you have said.
Regardless of all this. Take off your green and gold glasses and sit back and pay respect to what would be one of the best test players of all time. Too bad people like you had to wreck it for the rest of us in Australia.
Ill Chicken
14 Jul 2010, 05:29
jiphoc, Cooldude applies the averages as he sees fits, don't question him.
DeadlyAkkuret
14 Jul 2010, 06:07
My point was trying to pay respect to the guys career NOT comparing him to Warne.
You just compared him to Warne in your previous post :confused:
Indian_Hotdog
14 Jul 2010, 07:08
Warnie would've had way more wickets than Murali if he plays 70% of his Tests at home where all the pitches were doctored to suit him like Murali did. Some of the pitch rigging over the years in Sri Lanka just to make them are dust bowl is quite blatant
Warne averages much higher than Murali on subcontinent pitches.The chubby blonde got plenty of wkts against the clueless poms who were mediocre for most of the prior two decades.
King Elvis
14 Jul 2010, 10:28
This world will never again see the likes of him bowl again and the day he bowls his last ball in test cricket an era will end.
And hopefully they never let themselves be put in a position where somebody with his action can play Test Cricket, ever again.
Yaaablett
14 Jul 2010, 10:37
This world will never again see the likes of him bowl again and the day he bowls his last ball in test cricket an era will end.
And that day will be the day cricket gets a little credibility back.
WC_Eagles
14 Jul 2010, 10:39
He will go down as the best spinner of all time and arguably the best bowler of all time. Watching him bowl it looked like he was going to get a wicket every ball. I cannot remember ever seeing a batsmen being ever fully comfortable against him.
Warne was one of the best bowlers to ever play the game. However when comparing him to Murali certain factors have to be taken into account. For starters the argument Murali got cheap wickets again lesser nations is BS as stated above. Secondly always remember for a lot of the time when Warne bowled down the other end was one of the best modern fast bowlers of all time steaming in (McGrath). That just built up pressure and many wickets fell from that alone. Murali never had that privledge.
It really saddens me to see so many single minded tools on this thread banging on about the "chucking" incident. The FACT the law was changed for a reason which for the large part nothing to do with Murali. FACT if you still call him a cheat then I can therefore lead you to the fact the Brett Lee is also a cheat and even McGrath ( I remember reading this somewhere a little while back).
This world will never again see the likes of him bowl again and the day he bowls his last ball in test cricket an era will end.
Prove beyond reasonable doubt that he never exceeded 15 degrees in play.
Yaaablett
14 Jul 2010, 10:40
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tms/muraliafp203.jpg
A picture tells a thousand words.
I need only 3.
Murali throws it.
whats_at_stake
14 Jul 2010, 10:56
Some people will always have an opinion about his action. Just forget about that for now and pay tribute to an incredibly good player- one of the best spinners statistics wise of all time.
Seriously he is retiring and some respect should be shown to him for that. Likewise calling Warne a drug cheat when he retired is not the best look, as is this.
Good luck Murali- congratulations on a very good career.
Belnakor
14 Jul 2010, 11:45
Warne averages much higher than Murali on subcontinent pitches.The chubby blonde got plenty of wkts against the clueless poms who were mediocre for most of the prior two decades.
Murali averages 45.45 in India and Warne 43.11.
Belnakor
14 Jul 2010, 11:47
Warne was one of the best bowlers to ever play the game. However when comparing him to Murali certain factors have to be taken into account. For starters the argument Murali got cheap wickets again lesser nations is BS as stated above.
BS? Its a statistical fact he took hundreds of wickets against Bangas and Zim.
BS? Its a statistical fact he took hundreds of wickets against Bangas and Zim.
You saying that shows how little you actually know and how little you have seen him play. Statistics can be a very telling sign in cricket or it can pull the wool over peoples eyes. The fact this this has been prooven incorrect time and time again is just getting beyond a joke though for why peole cannot just accept it.
Cooldude
14 Jul 2010, 14:54
Warne averages much higher than Murali on subcontinent pitches.The chubby blonde got plenty of wkts against the clueless poms who were mediocre for most of the prior two decades.
That stat isn't even correct, go check it up again.
Sorry, jiphoc, I have watched Murali all over the world for 10 years and I do think he is a champion bowler. Just trying to set the record straight with some of the things you were saying, that's all. It's no green and gold glasses, having watched both for more than a decade, I simply think Warne is much the better bowler. Some people in this thread can testify that I picked Tendulkar over Ponting, it has nothing to do with me being an Aussie supporter.
Btw, are you like, split personality or something, you were comparing Murali and Warnie just posts ago then saying you ain't trying to?
Ill Chicken
14 Jul 2010, 15:16
Some people will always have an opinion about his action. Just forget about that for now and pay tribute to an incredibly good player- one of the best spinners statistics wise of all time.
Seriously he is retiring and some respect should be shown to him for that. Likewise calling Warne a drug cheat when he retired is not the best look, as is this.
Good luck Murali- congratulations on a very good career.
So we should just accept cheats?
That stat isn't even correct, go check it up again.
Sorry, jiphoc, I have watched Murali all over the world for 10 years and I do think he is a champion bowler. Just trying to set the record straight with some of the things you were saying, that's all. It's no green and gold glasses, having watched both for more than a decade, I simply think Warne is much the better bowler. Some people in this thread can testify that I picked Tendulkar over Ponting, it has nothing to do with me being an Aussie supporter.
Btw, are you like, split personality or something, you were comparing Murali and Warnie just posts ago then saying you ain't trying to?
My original post was about Murali. Then others tried to compare it to Warne. All I did was reply back. I have watched a lot of Warne and Murali bowl and I think what puts Murali above Warne is that Murali had little support around him. Warne had McGrath bowling up the other end and for those who only have statistics to play with Murali is still better in that regard even with this.
As an expat Saffa it always entertains me to watch Aussies jump up and down as soon as anyone says an Aussie play is not the best in the world and usually blind logic is used to try and proove this.
Ill Chicken
14 Jul 2010, 15:21
You saying that shows how little you actually know and how little you have seen him play. Statistics can be a very telling sign in cricket or it can pull the wool over peoples eyes. The fact this this has been prooven incorrect time and time again is just getting beyond a joke though for why peole cannot just accept it.
He took 176 wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh, almost 25% of his total.
Belnakor
14 Jul 2010, 15:25
You saying that shows how little you actually know and how little you have seen him play. Statistics can be a very telling sign in cricket or it can pull the wool over peoples eyes. The fact this this has been prooven incorrect time and time again is just getting beyond a joke though for why peole cannot just accept it.
Your dumber than you look.
I simply am stating that Murali took bucketloads of wickets against low quality opposition. this is irrefutable.
He took 176 wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh at 15.09 a piece. That is statistical fact.
whats_at_stake
14 Jul 2010, 15:35
So we should just accept cheats?
Not necessarily- but there is a proper forum for that. If you were comparing Warne and Murrali in a thread then that is fair enough to talk about Murali's action and Warne's drugs - but this is a thread designed to celebrate his career and his retirement- I would just prefer the content to stick to that.
Yaaablett
14 Jul 2010, 16:20
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/tms/muraliafp203.jpg
A picture tells a thousand words.
I need only 3.
Murali throws it.
It doesn't surprise me none of you Murali lovers have commented on this pic. Very hard to argue with the obvious isn't it?
Cooldude
14 Jul 2010, 16:27
My original post was about Murali. Then others tried to compare it to Warne. All I did was reply back. I have watched a lot of Warne and Murali bowl and I think what puts Murali above Warne is that Murali had little support around him. Warne had McGrath bowling up the other end and for those who only have statistics to play with Murali is still better in that regard even with this.
As an expat Saffa it always entertains me to watch Aussies jump up and down as soon as anyone says an Aussie play is not the best in the world and usually blind logic is used to try and proove this.
Warnie had f all support back in 05 Ashes, he took 40 wickets
I'm not jumping up and down at all, just trying to present the facts. You seem to be more agitated by it more than anything
Ill Chicken
14 Jul 2010, 16:48
Warnie had f all support back in 05 Ashes, he took 40 wickets
Warne dropped some sitters that series.
BarneyBent
14 Jul 2010, 18:37
It doesn't surprise me none of you Murali lovers have commented on this pic. Very hard to argue with the obvious isn't it?
That photo doesn't say anything except his arm has a kink in it coming through. There's no evidence that it straightens, nor that it extends past 15 degrees, nor that it gives him any sort of benefit. I'm not saying conclusively that this ISN'T the case, but a photo like that with absolutely no context means zilch.
the_interloper
14 Jul 2010, 18:40
It doesn't surprise me none of you Murali lovers have commented on this pic. Very hard to argue with the obvious isn't it?
It always makes me laugh when people try to show a pic of Murali bowling with a bent arm and say it proves he threw it. If you look at the law you can bowl with a bent arm, you just can't straighten it "whether partiallly or completely" in the delivery motion (of course they changed the law so you can straighten it 15 degrees). So you'd need a vid to show Murali is a chucker.
FWIW, i think he chucks and was in the stands when he got called, what a legend Darryl Hair is! :D
King Elvis
14 Jul 2010, 21:33
Is Murali throwing the first pitch of the Baseball Season or something there :confused:
Indian_Hotdog
14 Jul 2010, 22:31
I simply am stating that Murali took bucketloads of wickets against low quality opposition. this is irrefutable.
He took 176 wickets against Zimbabwe and Bangladesh at 15.09 a piece. That is statistical fact.
Excluding Zim and Bangladesh :
Murali:-
Tests - 107
Wickets - 616
Average - 24.88
5fers/10fers - 49/16
Warne:-
Tests - 142
Wickets - 691
Average - 25.40
5fers/10fers - 36/ 10
Power21
14 Jul 2010, 22:37
No balllll!!!
Power21
14 Jul 2010, 22:45
Excluding Zim and Bangladesh :
Murali:-
Tests - 107
Wickets - 616
Average - 24.88
5fers/10fers - 49/16
Warne:-
Tests - 142
Wickets - 691
Average - 25.40
5fers/10fers - 36/ 10
Bang.
King Elvis
14 Jul 2010, 23:44
So he's thrown in the towel?
Yaaablett
15 Jul 2010, 08:51
It always makes me laugh when people try to show a pic of Murali bowling with a bent arm and say it proves he threw it. If you look at the law you can bowl with a bent arm, you just can't straighten it "whether partiallly or completely" in the delivery motion (of course they changed the law so you can straighten it 15 degrees). So you'd need a vid to show Murali is a chucker.
FWIW, i think he chucks and was in the stands when he got called, what a legend Darryl Hair is! :D
You tell me how he can get from that position in the photo to ripping the ball out the back of his hand with his palm facing upwards without cheating. It's impossible.
No one with any intelligence whatsoever could say that his action is legal. The 2 sides to this are very different.
We are 100% convinced he cheats.
The other side is either -A) Warne bashers B) Aussie bashers (including the lowest form of human, australians who hate australians) C) From the sub continent or D) Plain old shit stirrers.
The facts are everyone knows his action is wrong. Even Murali himself.
MaccaKnowsBest
15 Jul 2010, 09:04
Excluding Zim and Bangladesh :
Murali:-
Tests - 107
Wickets - 616
Average - 24.88
5fers/10fers - 49/16
Warne:-
Tests - 142
Wickets - 691
Average - 25.40
5fers/10fers - 36/ 10
Don't bother with these stats with this crowd. I showed something very similar a while back and they still tried to shoot me down. It's pathetic :rolleyes:
King Elvis
15 Jul 2010, 11:32
Nobody is disputing how potent Murali was; but there is a reason a lot of Cricket Purists don't consider him for their All Time XIs.
Belnakor
15 Jul 2010, 11:55
. I cannot remember ever seeing a batsmen being ever fully comfortable against him.
Brian Lara disagrees
crownie
15 Jul 2010, 20:48
people say Murali had it tougher cause he had no support, but who knows how many wickets Warne would of gotten if Mcgrath did not exist.
a lot of the reasons here can work both ways for each of their stats, i dont know why people waste time and brain power trying to split them statiscally.
leg_break
15 Jul 2010, 23:17
To all the people in this thread who think that Murali chucks the ball watch this vid. In particular take note of the part where he bowls with a brace on.
Proof that murali does not chuck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDxRhcpBZio)
Yaaablett
16 Jul 2010, 09:15
To all the people in this thread who think that Murali chucks the ball watch this vid. In particular take note of the part where he bowls with a brace on.
Proof that murali does not chuck (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDxRhcpBZio)
All I saw was hundreds of examples of Murali throwing the ball. One of the greatest satirical short films I have ever seen, and we thought Australians were sarcastic. Ravi Shastri should be nominated for an Oscar, how he kept a straight face through all that was a brilliant example of an actor in the zone.