View Full Version : What have you learnt?
Simple. Over the past few weeks of pain what have you learnt about the team, certain players. This is not a thread to say "BLAH BLAH BLAH Knights needs to be sacked, all his fault", if you would like to say that, do so in one of the 400,000 other threads titled "Sack Knights", "Are we ready to Sack Knights" or "Who wants to come with me? Lets go sack Knights.". No this thread is not about positives, or negatives, but anything that may have struck you in the game against Melbourne, or this year in general.
What I learnt from today:
1. Hurley is a defender
2. Dempsey is still looser than a 2 dollar hooker, and cost us 4 goals alone in the first half alone. Not a defender.
3. Neagle looks like he might want to play football again.
4. Zaharakis will be an A-Grader at worst. Next captain of Essendon at best.
Colin D'Cops
11 Jul 2010, 21:16
1. Essendon are at least 2 years away from their next flag.
windyhill
11 Jul 2010, 21:19
adrian dudoro is taking money under false pretences.
IAmAJedi
11 Jul 2010, 21:21
1. Lonergan can play in the middle and provide us with useful clearances
2. Neagle has not lost all motivation to play the game
3. We can't kick
4. Our players are so lacking in confidence in front of goal that instead of a taking a set shot we would dangerously pass it off to another player, which either leads to a turnover or a disappointing point.
5. A plethora of Essendon supporters blame Knights for everything that is going wrong, like the public did with Ruddster.
1. David Zaharakis is going to be a star.. Is it just me or does he play similar to a James Hird? Class player who is able to play in a variety of positions..
2. Jay Neagle was very good today, just need some better delivery into the forward 50 and he could be able to kick 30 - 40 goals..
3. We miss Hille, being able to rotate Hille with Ryder we really miss.
4. We have alot of passengers on our list and are further away from a flag than most other teams at the moment..
5. Where is the improvement going to come from? this is the quesiton that gets me every time? The drafting? the trading? the game plan? the coaching staff? the playing list? ****ed if I know!!
5. Where is the improvement going to come from? this is the quesiton that gets me every time? The drafting? the trading? the game plan? the coaching staff? the playing list? ****ed if I know!!
All of the above.
We have many players that are passengers. And plenty who go missing for large chunks of the game. Howlett and Dyson, whilst good when they have the ball (Most of the time) don't do enough to get it when they don't. They are definitely not alone, so I feel bad putting their names up, they are just the first three that come to mind.
table tennis
11 Jul 2010, 21:29
Ricky dyson is not up to standard after nearly 100 games to take this club where it needs to go.
Form didn't deserve a recall, so don't know why he played.
All of the above.
We have many players that are passengers. And plenty who go missing for large chunks of the game. Howlett, Coyler and Dyson, whilst good when they have the ball (Most of the time) don't do enough to get it when they don't. They are definitely not alone, so I feel bad putting their names up, they are just the first three that come to mind.
Bit stiff on Colyer.. I think you should edit this post and take out the kid who has played less than 10 games in his debut season out of the post..
I think it goes deeper RE: the list. I posted a list earlier in the year about list cloggers, looking spot on with a few of the guys mentioned :D could even add a few guys to that list..
bombersaway
11 Jul 2010, 21:45
1 we wasted a 3 year contract on williams
2 neagle should play in the square for the rest of the year
3 all the people saying trade winderlich and a pick for boak need to re think
4 knights should not be sacked
5 hocking is a gun and should be in the guts
6 stanton i would trade for the right pick/player
7 we need hille back asap
8 hurley is a defender
9 mcveigh/welsh have a lot to do to deserve to stay on
10 jobe needs help as a leader
11 make a decision on prismal/dempsy/howlett/atkinson/houli/myers and stick with it
12 dodoro has been at the club 20 years, 10 as boss of recruitment i hope like f*ck that he pisses off with sheeds to gws
13 we need to get some c*nt into a lot of our players who need to find a heart(soloman,wallis,m.johnson,barnard) just to name a few none of them would have put up with this shit
ffs
someone fly the flag
Bombertastic
11 Jul 2010, 21:47
This season might be the defining one for the club in a strange way. Many of the players that have been on the list for some time have to be evaluated and finally delt with.
Before I get into that one thing we have to understand is the crappy draw dished up to us. After getting to 5-5 we had three big games that I thought we gave everything we could to for no return. This has no doubt affected the playing group and then we get caned by Adelaide away. I mean really, who didn't see that coming.
The clear problems are many but certainly the worst one for mine is in the middle. There simply is no help for Watson. We have too many of the same kind of players but not enough in and under hard nosed ones.
I thought Lonegan was great today. In the second quarter he led hard at the ball with his hands out in front and I didn't see anyone else really do that. The move to the middle in the second half was justified and it was almost as if Knights saw that and knows that his attitude needs to rub off onto others.
I can't help but think that the heavy rotations in and out of the side arent helping. I don't name names (I detest that) but surely Knights should know who is in the future of Essendon and who isnt. So many changes from week to week with knee jerk reactions to loses.
I like our list but I think at the end of this year we really need to make some hard decisions on some players futures.
Darealrath
11 Jul 2010, 21:47
Our midfield is even worse than I thought.
Duckworth
11 Jul 2010, 22:07
1. Lonergan can play in the middle and provide us with useful clearances
2. Neagle has not lost all motivation to play the game
3. We can't kick
4. Our players are so lacking in confidence in front of goal that instead of a taking a set shot we would dangerously pass it off to another player, which either leads to a turnover or a disappointing point.
5. A plethora of Essendon supporters blame Knights for everything that is going wrong, like the public did with Ruddster.
1. David Zaharakis is going to be a star.. Is it just me or does he play similar to a James Hird? Class player who is able to play in a variety of positions..
2. Jay Neagle was very good today, just need some better delivery into the forward 50 and he could be able to kick 30 - 40 goals..
3. We miss Hille, being able to rotate Hille with Ryder we really miss.
4. We have alot of passengers on our list and are further away from a flag than most other teams at the moment..
5. Where is the improvement going to come from? this is the quesiton that gets me every time? The drafting? the trading? the game plan? the coaching staff? the playing list? ****ed if I know!!
I agree with all of this. We have a lot of work to do. :o
The_Young_Gun
11 Jul 2010, 22:23
1. Our teams performances are based around their morale (Confidence) levels.
2. I wouldn't be surprised if players have already lost faith in Matthew Knights.
3. Essendon will never win a flag with H.Slattery in the side.
4. Prismall will probably leave the club if he keeps getting dropped every second game.
5. We can't play like Geelong.
6. We have no "REAL" gameplan.
EVERLAST
11 Jul 2010, 22:25
Our spine on paper looks great and displays some depth. Same can't be said elsewhere at the minute.
3. Essendon will never win a flag with H.Slattery in the side.
H.Slattery was not in the side today and we still got smashed :rolleyes:
Enough of the Slattery bashing already!
Our midfield is even worse than I thought.
That, sir, is impossible.
1: Neagle is our full forward, wont be a star by any stretch of the imagination
but will provide structure and contribute on the scoreboard in every game. I don't think he will kick bags regularly, but he is our best option at the moment.
2: We aren't going to make the finals.:(
3: We wont win a premiership with this midfield and have the least potential coming through. Sadly tough decisions will need to be made on the following players NLM, Dyson, McVeigh , Winderlich, Stanton and probably a few more that I am forgetting. Given the comprised drafts our only option may be to trade some of these players to GC and GWS. Not something I wanna do, but Sydney did it with some of there premiership players and have got a few good young players in return. I can see McVeigh leaving for GWS anyway.
I am starting to have concerns about dempsey, he has talent and is still inexperienced, but he was dropped because of a lack of accountabilty and Jurrah scored his first goal by being 40 meters out from goal unmanned. Now I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure Dempsey was on him at that stage.
Jonesy1987
11 Jul 2010, 22:29
6. We have no "REAL" gameplan.
One thing that I've learnt over the last year is; game plans are vastly overrated, they hold less skilled teams back, it pigeon holes development and discourages balance.
Ben the Gooner
11 Jul 2010, 22:32
Our midfield is even worse than I thought.
This.
Sheeds has left us up shit creek withouta paddle.
I'm glad to read I'm not the only one who sees this team is so dependant on confidence
I learnt zaka can become an excellent player that this team is crying out for
I learnt that our god awful recruiting between 01 and 04 has left an enormous hole in our list that results in jobe being the only real leader in our side this is extremely visible in the Melbourne team who have guys like bruce Sylvia green moloney who take weight off their kids to an extent
The_Young_Gun
11 Jul 2010, 22:39
H.Slattery was not in the side today and we still got smashed :rolleyes:
Enough of the Slattery bashing already!
Was about the whole year in general.
Hank is a good example of your conservative, old fashioned footballer.. That's probably the only reason why supporters like him.. People just have to admit that he doesn't fit into modern day footy.
Sorry for the cheap shot on slatts, but it can't be left unsaid.
The_Young_Gun
11 Jul 2010, 22:55
One thing that I've learnt over the last year is; game plans are vastly overrated, they hold less skilled teams back, it pigeon holes development and discourages balance.
By all means you can send a team out on the ground and not give any instruction, that's if you got 22 james hirds playing in your side.. but players need instruction, a plan.. Cause some players are just clueless, if they don't have a gameplan to follow, you'll see half a team running around like headless chooks.
Our team just has the 1 gameplan we go with every week.. It doesn't occur to knighta that it just doesn't work..
bipolarbeaR
11 Jul 2010, 23:00
1. Zaharakis is starting to show why he was touted so highly, will be an A grader, I actually have no doubt at all in my mind, reminds me of Bartel.
2. The team has too many plodders.
3. Need more clearance players.
4. Need to stop changing the team so much the players are being put under too much pressure.
5. Hurley is a backman, doubt in my mind.
Ludwig van Bertstare
11 Jul 2010, 23:00
There is no god.
2. The team has too many plodders.
Like who BpB??
Names?
IAmAJedi
11 Jul 2010, 23:02
5. Hurley is a backman, doubt in my mind.
Missing a 'no' somewhere?
eg. Hurley is no a backman, doubt in my mind
There is no god.
Ryder is God.
Ludwig van Bertstare
11 Jul 2010, 23:05
Ryder is God.
There is no god, but there is Ryder.
mind=blown
The Sim Dog
12 Jul 2010, 00:59
1. You need to play Houli.
2. Need to play Reimers as a forward.
3. Knights needs to take a deap breath, a step back and then go through the current list and arrive on some sort of vision of a best 22-25 in a few years. I think that means cutting guys like Dyson, Slattery, McVeigh and perhaps others and playing kids. And stick with that side for a week or two depending on injury. May hurt but can't be any worse than the selection merry go round at the moment that seems to have many too scared to attack.
HurleyLegend
12 Jul 2010, 01:44
1 we wasted a 3 year contract on williams
2 neagle should play in the square for the rest of the year
3 all the people saying trade winderlich and a pick for boak need to re think
4 knights should not be sacked
5 hocking is a gun and should be in the guts
6 stanton i would trade for the right pick/player
7 we need hille back asap
8 hurley is a defender
9 mcveigh/welsh have a lot to do to deserve to stay on
10 jobe needs help as a leader
11 make a decision on prismal/dempsy/howlett/atkinson/houli/myers and stick with it
12 dodoro has been at the club 20 years, 10 as boss of recruitment i hope like f*ck that he pisses off with sheeds to gws
13 we need to get some c*nt into a lot of our players who need to find a heart(soloman,wallis,m.johnson,barnard) just to name a few none of them would have put up with this shit
ffs
someone fly the flag
wow I think I agree with everything!
Jonesy1987
12 Jul 2010, 02:24
By all means you can send a team out on the ground and not give any instruction, that's if you got 22 james hirds playing in your side.. but players need instruction, a plan.. Cause some players are just clueless, if they don't have a gameplan to follow, you'll see half a team running around like headless chooks.
Our team just has the 1 gameplan we go with every week.. It doesn't occur to knighta that it just doesn't work..
Didn't say no instruction, just play basic effective football. Put your head over the ball, run hard both ways, support your team mates, kick to advantage. That is Geelong's master gameplan, just with an unnecessary emphasis on finding the best option.
The_Young_Gun
12 Jul 2010, 02:37
Didn't say any no instruction, just play basic effective football. Put your head over the ball, run hard both ways, support your team mates, kick to advantage. That is Geelong's master gameplan, just with an unnecessary emphasis on finding the best option.
I don't think we're on the same page.. When I talk about gameplan, I mean specific tactics that are taken into a footy match (eg. set plays, zones, possession footy).. I emphasised that we come in with the same gameplan every week, and when things go wrong, our coaches do NOTHING.. We are way too predictable and we get run over.. coaching staff just go "Well it didnt work this week, maybe it will next week"..
Our coaches lack gameday focus, simple tactics that will at least keep our side in contention of winning the game.
As for Geelong.. I totally disagree.. Geelong play thorough tactical footy which is only pulled off because of:
1. Excellent skills. and
2. Having Smart Footballers.
Essendon play the same brand of footy.. but we're no where near from pulling it off like they do..
Jonesy1987
12 Jul 2010, 03:12
I understand what you're saying, I just think game plan's are totally irrelevant to being a good side. We're no where near consistently pulling off the basic fundamentals of football, do that and we instantly become a great side.
Nasty Penguin
12 Jul 2010, 09:49
Watching both games over the weekend (Bendigo and Essendon) I'm even more concerned than I was previously.
1. Knights isn't settling the players in positions or playing them out of position. Dempsey should be on a wing, Myers in the middle, Hurley ??? should be a backman imo.
2. Atkinson should be in the seniors was a class above the rest in the VFL.
3. Prismall's delivery into the forward line is shithouse constantly coughing it up and that's at vfl level.
4. There's no hardness about the bombers anymore. Where's the next wallis, wellman, soloman, hardwick or barnard going to come from???
5. Mark Williams was the worst possible pickup for the club. Better off playing Daniher that williams.
6. Depth is really lacking. Fletch won't be around forever so creating a backline to rely on him is unhealthy for the club.
7. Gumby, Zaka and Melksham will all be stars they need as much gametime as possible. Melksham shouldn't be getting dropped every second week either should howlett or colyer give them gametime.
8. Plenty of delisting/trading to be done over the off season. Dyson, Houli, Lonergan, Jetta, Stanton, H Slattery, Welsh, McVeigh, Prismall. All up for grabs for mine.
9. Ryder to be a permanant forward. A Hille/Belly combo in the ruck will work and Ryder has talent to burn up forward adding that experience that is clearly lacking up there.
10. Reshuffle the assistant coaches. It's just same old same old in all areas.
Bombs Away
12 Jul 2010, 11:38
1 Knights cant coach
2 Hurley is a Fullback
3 Neagle can play the game and should stay at FF
4 We miss Hille immensely
5 Lonergan is one speed and not that good - needs to go
6 Dyson is just like Lonergan
7 Stanton is the turnover king
8 Watson should not play at FF - he is a mid knights
9 Whoever gives the best on for bendigo is a fool, houli should not have been there this week
10 Our board has a bit to answer to in relation to Hardwick and Bailey
11 We cant play outdoors
12 Zaharakis will be a star
13 Reimers and a few others are definitely playing under 100%
14 We lose more games at the selection table than anyone else
15 Knights wont listen to anyone as he is a know it all
16 Knights has definitely lost the players - apart from 5 mins at the start of the 3rd quarter we played with no heart or intensity
17 Umpires have been crucifying us all year, cost us against port, we need to pay $20k to get it right
18 That we have lost to all sides below us this year (or at least will)
19 We are very un-essendon like at the moment
20 That Davey is not that fast, he just takes lots of little steps
21 That we have gone backwards, melbourne and richmond have gone forwards
22 That we play a marking game when we have runners there then the next week try to play a running game with tall timber
23 Gumbleton has been worth the wait
24 Melksham will be a gun, as will Collyer (not as good as Jake tho)
25 That we handball way too much, when we kick the ball we look better
26 That Atkinson is ready made to replace the run, carry and kicking of lovett (if he ever gets a game and is not in the back pocket - wing or more forward please)
Mr Mojo Risin
12 Jul 2010, 12:00
- Knights and his method of teaching has sapped the majority of the list of their confidence. A lot of players look like they are trying to do the right thing from fear of what will happen if they don't rather than being encouraged to make mistakes from taking worthwhile risks.
- Coaches messages are either mixed or too complex, most players seemed to be second guessing what they should do. At the start of the 3rd quarter the players seemed to play with a clear direction and freedom they hadn't in the first half. My guess is there was one simple message given and the players only had to focus on that one thing and allow their natural talent to do the rest.
- Too many players do not work hard enough when things get tough.
- I've been a little hard on Lonergan. Jury is still out but at least he shows heart.
- Neagle should have been in the team most the year.
- Despite the loss, the team still looks better with Dempsey, Neagle and Howlett in it.
- Myers should be playing and Dempsey should be in the middle or forward.
- Colyer really needs a **** load of skill development.
- Ryder really needs a decent dose of arrogance to let him make use of his ability. Maybe they need to do the opposite of what Richmond do with Riewoldt? Blow wind up his butt and get him to believe he is the best.
- We miss Hille, but Bellchambers is coming along nicely. Sure he made mistakes, but the development is encouraging.
Since 2002, our stars have been covering for a midfield that has been going backwards. I'm talking about Hird, Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher.
We're now being exposed as the worst midfield in the competition (at least vying for that title), and today's game relies on the midfield.
Since 2002, our stars have been covering for a midfield that has been going backwards. I'm talking about Hird, Lloyd, Lucas and Fletcher.
We're now being exposed as the worst midfield in the competition (at least vying for that title), and today's game relies on the midfield.
Vying with who? I thought that was the only thing we'd win this year
Vying with who? I thought that was the only thing we'd win this year
Fair question, I did say "at least" to be fair. I think that WCE may well take out the award, but they do have a few excuses, namely injuries, something we can't in all honesty claim this year in our midfield.
Slappery
12 Jul 2010, 14:58
Was about the whole year in general.
Hank is a good example of your conservative, old fashioned footballer.. That's probably the only reason why supporters like him.. People just have to admit that he doesn't fit into modern day footy.
Sorry for the cheap shot on slatts, but it can't be left unsaid.
Conservative, old fashioned, follows team instructions and team disciplines, has some c*&t and mongrel about him, plays with heart, sticks up for his team mates, puts his body on the line every week (which people are asking for)......but should be de-listed.
Fair question, I did say "at least" to be fair. I think that WCE may well take out the award, but they do have a few excuses, namely injuries, something we can't in all honesty claim this year in our midfield.
Kudos to west coasts injuries. As much as i love Watson (Essendons midfield) < Kerr/Priddis
Bombs Away
12 Jul 2010, 16:06
Conservative, old fashioned, follows team instructions and team disciplines, has some c*&t and mongrel about him, plays with heart, sticks up for his team mates, puts his body on the line every week (which people are asking for)......but should be de-listed.
This in not a topic about slattery - if it was we could also use words such as poor disposal, slow, not up to anything but a back pocket at best, always kicks or handballs sidewards or backwards, if we have a run and carry game plan people like him shut it down, brings no skills to the table at all - obviously you are a fan but you should be looking at the cousin - he seems ok
Slattery is disliked because he is so loved by knights - like dyson he is raced back into the senior side when others have to earn their spot and both deliver the big 0. Trade him for a cheeseburger and we have done fantastic, he wouldnt get a game in any other side
Slappery
12 Jul 2010, 16:15
This in not a topic about slattery - if it was we could also use words such as poor disposal, slow, not up to anything but a back pocket at best, always kicks or handballs sidewards or backwards, if we have a run and carry game plan people like him shut it down, brings no skills to the table at all - obviously you are a fan but you should be looking at the cousin - he seems ok
Slattery is disliked because he is so loved by knights - like dyson he is raced back into the senior side when others have to earn their spot and both deliver the big 0. Trade him for a cheeseburger and we have done fantastic, he wouldnt get a game in any other side
I know it's not about Slattery, just replying to The_Young_Gun, who brought him into this topic for no reason. People were asking for heart, soul, hard work, guts, mongrel amoungst other things. I am fan..yes...maybe i need to use the icons better...:rolleyes:;):(
The_Young_Gun
12 Jul 2010, 18:10
Conservative, old fashioned, follows team instructions and team disciplines, has some c*&t and mongrel about him, plays with heart, sticks up for his team mates, puts his body on the line every week (which people are asking for)......but should be de-listed.
He has the mental qualities of a good footballer.. But has never possessed the skill or athletic ability to compliment that.
I hate seeing footballers get games, when their skills are bellow AFL standard.
its not just slatts I dislike..... Alan Toovey!!! :rolleyes:
TheGodDelusion
12 Jul 2010, 21:24
What have I learned?
There is no substitute for experience. 3rd youngest team, both in terms of average age and games played (yes I know Fletcher being out drags it down, but hey if he plays, maybe we'd have won a couple we've lost). 9 players with 50+ games (only the tigers had less) - I defy anyone to expect consistent performance out of <50 game players.
Coaching? At the start of 2007 Thompson was in the gun. At the start of 2010 Harvey was in the gun. Supporters and the media are fickle. If you don't have the cattle the coach is irrelevant. Pretty much the same if you do.
I'm with windy on this one, our recruiting manager has a lot to answer for. Mind you, the people responsible for the lack of funds put into recruiting up until the last couple of years are also just as culpable.
Lastly, you do not lose 800+ games of experience and without seeing an onfield impact.
bombzrule
13 Jul 2010, 06:45
I understand what you're saying, I just think game plan's are totally irrelevant to being a good side. We're no where near consistently pulling off the basic fundamentals of football, do that and we instantly become a great side.
I think you are wrong wrong wrong a game plan is everything, look at all the good sides they have definitive game plans a specific style of play that the whole team adheres to. Even Richmond who have a much worse list then ours realise this and are competitive.
table tennis
13 Jul 2010, 08:47
I think you are wrong wrong wrong a game plan is everything, look at all the good sides they have definitive game plans a specific style of play that the whole team adheres to. Even Richmond who have a much worse list then ours realise this and are competitive.
I agree with this.
St.Kilda have a game plan that makes Peake and Farren Ray look like half decent footballers........:rolleyes:
Jonesy1987
13 Jul 2010, 14:52
I think you are wrong wrong wrong a game plan is everything, look at all the good sides they have definitive game plans a specific style of play that the whole team adheres to. Even Richmond who have a much worse list then ours realise this and are competitive.
The don't have a worse list, in fact its marginally better with more room for growth and people were complaining all year that the don't have a gameplan, the haven't changed shit, except for doing the basics.
Jonesy1987
13 Jul 2010, 14:57
I agree with this.
St.Kilda have a game plan that makes Peake and Farren Ray look like half decent footballers........:rolleyes:
Rubbish, nothing to do with game plan, at their other clubs they were in the top 3-4 midfielders at Stkilda their 7-8, with much more protection and less responsibility and they still don't look that good.
carloss
13 Jul 2010, 17:12
14 We lose more games at the selection table than anyone else
15 Knights wont listen to anyone as he is a know it all
16 Knights has definitely lost the players - apart from 5 mins at the start of the 3rd quarter we played with no heart or intensity
19 We are very un-essendon like at the moment
26 That Atkinson is ready made to replace the run, carry and kicking of lovett (if he ever gets a game and is not in the back pocket - wing or more forward please)
100% with you Bombs Away, especially the above:thumbsu: