Hamill now a big fish in a small pond?

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I found it interesting that Inside Football ranked Aaron Hamill as St Kilda's 4th ranked player. It got me thinking where he would have been ranked on Carlton's 2001 list.

I would have Sos, Braddles, Kouta, McKay, Ratten, Whitnall, Campo, Allan above Hamill and maybe Beaumont. That would have made Aaron 9th or 10th on the Blues books.

Was he chasing the recognition as much as the money? Maybe his ego needed stroking as much as his wallet? Enough of the reasoning. Who would you have ranked above Hamill on this years list. Try to leave any sour grapes out of your assessment.

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mens sana in corpore sano - a sound mind in a sound body

[Fred]

Hope you don't mind me visiting your room, but I have a question.
If, as most blues fans say, Hamill is not highly rated at Optus, why such an almighty fuss about him leaving? Could it be that he is rated higher than you admit, or is it just that he dared to leave?
Players come and go from all clubs, but this particular transfer seems to have hit a raw nerve. It's not as if you have never lured someone from another club by offering more money.

Interested in your thoughts.

[Bee]

Hamill was ranked at about 6 or 7 at Carlton. Players of the calibre of Bradley, Ratten, Koutoufides, Silvagni, Camporeale, Allan, Mckay were ranked in front of him. The contract he was offered reflected that ranking, either ego or greed affected his decision not accept it.
Someone came along with a better offer and he accepted it. It was his decision and he has to live with it.

The point to remember here is, in a couple of seasons he would have been ranked in the top three and contracted accordingly. But obviously he wanted the spotlight and money now, instead of later.
He may well rue his decision in the future. I find it hard to believe that he would not regret leaving a club he supported all his life and cutting ties with his boyhood hero, Steve Kernahan.
I don't know if he would ever be welcome back at Carlton, he really caused a lot of hurt and bitterness.


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The BLUES. The Best in the Business.

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

odn, i believe the reason why blues supporters are so annoyed about losing hamill is because they know he is going to get better as a footballer, perhaps becoming one of the gun forwards in the league. the ranking of footballers means little in a teams makeup. hamills importance to the carlton forward line was greater than his 'ranking as a footballer'. the blues will miss his hard tackling, great work ethic and fierce attack on the footy, this is the fact that is causing all the angst, combined with the disbelief that a carlton boy could leave such a mighty club to go to a club that has been described as a "rabble".

the salary cap and draft was created to even out the competition, in this case it has cost the blues a valuable player. a quirk of fate or more likely bad management led to a lot of quality carlton players being out of contract at the same time. carlton already being over the salary cap simply could not fit them all in. perhaps you paid kouta to much and as a consequence could not offer hamill his market value. i know as a supporter it is gut wrenching to watch a player that has developed from a youngster and become a quality player only to leave the club, i have seen it at st kilda all my life and it hurts. however to say that hamill has left for the money or wants to get in the spotlight would be ignoring the fact that the carlton administration were in breach of the salary cap rules and bungled his contract, they were more than likely the major reason why hamill had to leave.

[InTheBack!]

The fact is that the draft & salary cap has created a distorted value on the small number of players that do come on the "market".

Players like AH - a good player without being exceptional, suddenly take on the value of gold as there are so few players on the "market".

We (Lions) lost Steve Lawrence in the same manner. A cult hero, but quite average player at the Lions suddenly became worth double his Brisbane salary when he went to the Saints.

P.S. Hope Kouta comes up this year. Footy needs players like him, despite being in on the opposition!

[Pessimistic]

Get over it guys, or the name "Carlwhine" will be born

[Blue Blood]

HAHA it seems to pessimistic you can't even have a whinge on your own teams board.Get a life ********.Or even better piss off and don't come back.We offered Hamill a 1 year contract.So next year with a few players leaving/retiring we could pay him more.But no the bloke takes the money and runs.After all the development we have put into the bloke.He deserves to be booed every time he plays us because he is a traitor.Yes he is a very good player but in the end a TRAITOR.I will never forget this ever.No loyalty in the jumper no more.I never did like the salary cap or a draft.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Come on Pess and everybody else. This is not about digging up the same sorry saga. There is no whining going on here. Sammy has gone and I for one am excited about the Blues 2001 prospects. I did and do rate Hamill. He was a very good player with us with the potential to become a great. Just because the Blues have lured other teams players away in the past does not mean that we should not care if we lose one.

I was merely pointing out that he is rated higher at St Kilda than at Carlton. This is because Carlton has at present a higher ratio of 'stars'. As pointed out, we wouldn't trade Whitnall, Allan, McKay, Campo, Sos, Bradley, Ratten or Kouta for him. Not withstanding the fact that Braddles and Sos are at the end of their careers, Hamill has not reached the standard of these players just yet. He was not underrated. It was just harder for him to shine amongst a sky full of stars. This is more a reflection on St Kilda position at this point of time. More potential than proven.

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's:
Come on Pess and everybody else. This is not about digging up the same sorry saga. There is no whining going on here. Sammy has gone and I for one am excited about the Blues 2001 prospects. I did and do rate Hamill. He was a very good player with us with the potential to become a great. Just because the Blues have lured other teams players away in the past does not mean that we should not care if we lose one.

I was merely pointing out that he is rated higher at St Kilda than at Carlton. This is because Carlton has at present a higher ratio of 'stars'. As pointed out, we wouldn't trade Whitnall, Allan, McKay, Campo, Sos, Bradley, Ratten or Kouta for him. Not withstanding the fact that Braddles and Sos are at the end of their careers, Hamill has not reached the standard of these players just yet. He was not underrated. It was just harder for him to shine amongst a sky full of stars. This is more a reflection on St Kilda position at this point of time. More potential than proven.

Couldn't agree more - Here was the top 10 I did myself at the end of last season (before the left):

1. Kouta
2. Whitnall
3. Ratten
4. Campo
5. McKay
6. Silvagni
7. Bradley
8. Allan
9. Hamill
10. Hickmott
11. Lappin
etc.

So 9th was at best where I was willing to put him and I couldn't have had sour grapes then because he hadn't left yet. Still I was so upset when he left, mostly because at Carlton I'm not used to it happening because we usually manage to hold on to our players. Also, we had made him the player he was, picking him up at 79 in the draft. I think the salary cap should be designed in a way that doesn't stop a club like Carlton keeping a player like Hamill who we picked up low in the draft as a youngster when he hadn't proved anything. It should stop clubs from buying other players, that's all. I dunno how this can be achieved though.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Hamill would have been rated up to about sixth in the current crop probably jumping ahead of Braddles and Allan and with SOS' retirement. Hickmott might have jumped above him though.

Goes to show, he would have gone further as Bee suggested. Mind you, he is probably top 3 at St Kilda now.

[blues^rock]

the reason i was so pissed about hammill leaving was partly because he was a good player and i liked having up there inour forward line (i mean who else were we gonna put there fevola??? well that one worked didn't it:rolleyes: ) but that wasn't all of it.
when he first left us i thought it was because of elliott so i hated him for a while then i found out it was because of the money so i hated him because personally i think premierships and the team are more important than money (but then again what would i know i don't really have either) but then once again i was given more information whihc told me it was his magaer that told him to do it and u can't really blame a guy for listening to his manager! so ten i was just pissed at his manager and basically i just don't think he looks as good in the black red and white as he did in blue!!!
when hammill left he would've been rated around 6 or 7 but now it's hard to tell because he could;ve played completely different at carlton than he did at st kilda in fact he would've because they are completely dfferent teams with completely dfferent set ups so it is hard to say... certainly sill up there in the top 10 but i'd say a little lower now with more of our other players developing skills in his absense.

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by blues^rock
basically i just don't think he looks as good in the black red and white as he did in blue!!!


True, but who does?:)

[Kane McGoodwin]

A couple of points:

1. Hamill would want to be ranked higher at the Saints, because he is certainly being paid as such.

2. Blues currently have more depth of better players than the Saints, so you would expect Hamill to be ranked lower at Carlton (hence Saints could afford to pay him more).

[The Old Dark Navy's]

yes, but would you want to be ranked top of a bottom club or top 5 of a top club?

[sainter]

Originally posted by Blues2001


True, but who does?:)

I do! :eek: :D

You really do get a different perspective on this issue after reading the thoughts of the opposition fans.

I don't think it's any surprise at all that Aaron is rated so much higher at St Kilda than at Carlton. The fact that he was so far down the pecking order at Carlton meant that he didn't get his wish and have his contract renewed during the 2000 season like he wanted. There were higher priorities than Aaron at the time. We had a terrible season in 2000 and didn't fare much better in 2001.

There seems to be a lot of conflicting reports depending on who you talk too (and what teams supporters you listen too). Whether he was willing to stay for less if his contract was extended during the season and what was said at the Carlton best and fairest dinner has been disagreed on from all corners. Did he leave purely and simply for the money? I don't think he did at all but I wouldn't think I'd have any agreement on that in here. ;)

All I know is that we have signed him for 4 years on a very healthy contract heavily weighted towards his 3rd and 4th year at the club. By that stage he will be 25/26 years of age and hopefully moving into the peak of his career. When you come off seasons where you finish 15th and 16th, you may very well have to pay players above their market value to get them to the club. With all the pressure surrounding his move he had a very consistent season and finished 3rd in our best and fairest. His attitude towards training and encouraging the youngsters has been first class and it's my belief that in 2-3 years time he will be the next captain of the St Kilda Football Club.

Like the other saints fans have said we know perfectly well what it's like to have young (and more senior) players taken from your grasp just as they look like taking the next step in their career. If it's any consolation Dean Rice and Matthew Lappin have gone on to play great football since leaving the saints. (I won't mention Sam Cranage ;)) We'll look forward to cheering his every possession as you all boo him in round 1, and no doubt in round 5 we'll be booing every one of Barry Hall's possessions and angrily discuss how a player could leave a club after they did so much for him on and off the field.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Nice reasoned post yet again Sainter. When I saw your name as the last update, I knew which thread it would be in and waited for the accusations of whinging. ;) It never came. Truth is I revived the topic to see if Blues fans had simmered down any since last season. :)

If Hamill is a future Saints captain then the move was a great one for him as he would never had made it to that level with us. Not with Lance ahead in the pecking order. He impressed me with his ability to get on with it after the controversy and after his displeasure at Blighty's sacking.

Cheers

[Pies rock]

I have never rated Hamill a great footballer, more a handy player who, like most players, played good football with good players around him. His tackling and constant pressure was very effective for the Blues, but I have my doubts about how he will handle being the main target in any forward line. He was given a bath by Presti when the Saints met the Pies this year, and I always remember how badly he played in that big Round 21 match against Essendon in 2000. The jury is still out...

[Savatage]

Originally posted by Blues2001


True, but who does?:)

I look ****ing hot in my St.Kilda jumper!

[Blues2001]

Originally posted by Pies rock
I always remember how badly he played in that big Round 21 match against Essendon in 2000.

True. Extremely disappointing that night, as he was in the 99 GF, and 2000 PF. I don't just mean ordinary, but rather invisible. We needed him to fire in those games to stand any chance.

[blues^rock]

Originally posted by sainter


We'll look forward to cheering his every possession as you all boo him in round 1,


i sincerley hope that most blues fans have given up on booing hammil, after all it has been a year and two games! the first time i was ok with it...i may have even joined in...just a little... but the second time i thought it was jsut horrible, yes he left the club and we want to make him know he made the wrong decision, but isn't beating the sh*t out of st kilda enough to show that? by booing him we are just looking lie kimmature brats that can't handle having something taken away from us... although sometimes i think tat might be true we don't want others to think that!
please don't boo hammil, jsut cheer on the faithful carlton players that will be helping to kick st kildas arse one more time!

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think the problem is that St Kilda don't have any other players 'boo-worthy' that spring to mind. I mean there is somebody at every club that you like to take the **** out of. Libber is a prime target at the Dogs, Richo at Richmond (now that Daffy has gone), At the roos, the Carey's a banker ;) chants are always in full cry and at Essendon Hird and Lloyd are fair game but at St Kilda, I don't know. Until somebody puts their hand up to take his place, I guess Sammy will keep copping it. It's a traditional footy sideshow!

[The Starchild]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
He impressed me with his ability to get on with it after the controversy and after his displeasure at Blighty's sacking.Rick are you serious? I was disgusted at his behaviour after the Blight sacking and I've no idea how StKilda can put up with him still playing at their club, let alone consider him to be their captain.

The image I have stuck in my mind is Hamill calling in that maggot manager of his and doing an interview near the players race at Moorabbin. Allison the maggot did all the talking and said that both he and Aaron were bitterly disappointed because Blight was a major reason they'd signed on, then he proceeded to say that it was a pity they didn't have a get out clause in their contract or that they could somehow get transferred back to Carlton!!!

Hamill spat it and wanted to leave the club, can you believe it!

I think that interview pretty much sums up the character of Mr Aaron Hamill and his scumbag manager, they have no spine and no fathom of a clue as to the meaning of the word loyalty. If I was a Saints supporter I'd be calling for his head, no wonder they've been such a bunch of chronic losers over the history of their inclusion in this comp, they put up with crap like that...would never have that up at Carlton thank friggin god.

Hamill is scum and so is his manager, and if Hamill goes near the ball against us I'll gleefully disgrace myself by booing and heckling him as is my right as a "free" citizen. Then I'll proably get asked to tone down or leave.

[blues^rock]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
I think the problem is that St Kilda don't have any other players 'boo-worthy' that spring to mind. I mean there is somebody at every club that you like to take the **** out of. Libber is a prime target at the Dogs, Richo at Richmond (now that Daffy has gone), At the roos, the Carey's a banker ;) chants are always in full cry and at Essendon Hird and Lloyd are fair game but at St Kilda, I don't know. Until somebody puts their hand up to take his place, I guess Sammy will keep copping it. It's a traditional footy sideshow!

true there is no one "boo-worthy" but is it REALLY neccessary to boo??? and if it is y not just boo whoeevr is playing well on the day or something... i dunno i just never liekd the booing thing...specialy with my poor little sammy!

[The Starchild]

bluesrock you are entitled to your opinion, but i felt personally aggreived and hurt at Hamill's decision to leave us. It's a disgrace he was ever given Kernahan's jumper, I loved Kernahan bloody loved the bastaard. Hamill is far and away my most despised player and I'll never forgive him for ever turning his back on Carlton. If we ever got him back I'd rip up my 22yr consecutive membership and throw it at everyone involved in getting him back.

[blues^rock]

starchild you to are entitled to your opinion, and yeah i do hate hammil for turning his back on carlton but sometimes things are better forgiven but not forgotten...

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Originally posted by The Starchild
Rick are you serious? I was disgusted at his behaviour after the Blight sacking and I've no idea how StKilda can put up with him still playing at their club, let alone consider him to be their captain. I wasn't referring to his behaviour at the time or exactly what transpired. I was thinking more about the fact that I thought (as did others) that it would spell the end of his St Kilda days as he was obviously so disillusioned. The fact that he apparently got over that and didn't alllow it to affect his football does show some intestinal fortitude. That is what impressed me. I thought he was gone but he came back from the controversy.

Surely Deej, getting any player to your club wouldn't be enough to make you turn your back on them? Geez, I just grinned and beared the McGuane fiasco!