View Full Version : Roast Are the Essendon Football Club Serious?
Prog Rocker
19 Sep 2010, 23:32
Why are the club saying it would be ok if they take their time to choose a Coach and wait until AFTER the bloody Draft."Oh its ok St.Kilda did it",FFS WE NEED a coach in place by Oct 1st (which is B+F night) and Trade week starts on the Monday.How the hell are we supposed to lure a top class Midfielder or any player to the club without knowing the their Coach will be?...WHAT A JOKE WE'VE BECOME!
We appointed our coach 5 weeks ago brah. We're just keeping it quiet for kicks.
Colin D'Cops
19 Sep 2010, 23:39
Certainly need to appoint a coach before trade week, if we're any chance of luring a quality player or two.
nickh32
19 Sep 2010, 23:48
Why are the club saying it would be ok if they take their time to choose a Coach and wait until AFTER the bloody Draft."Oh its ok St.Kilda did it",FFS WE NEED a coach in place by Oct 1st (which is B+F night) and Trade week starts on the Monday.How the hell are we supposed to lure a top class Midfielder or any player to the club without knowing the their Coach will be?...WHAT A JOKE WE'VE BECOME!
Would you rather essendon appoint a great coach who will take the club forward and to its next premiership or do you want another matthew knights?
Also if you havnt noticed there arnt many if any top class midfielders available atm.
I really hope we get the coach in place BEFORE trade week. To be honest, I want it done within the next few weeks so we have time to plan our attack on players.
Techno_Viking
20 Sep 2010, 08:38
The coach has been selected, the assistants are being finalized, the list is being analysed. No issues to worry about, only maybe how much to front load Mundy's contract and also what colour the training tops will be this season.
Call Me Cake
20 Sep 2010, 08:42
I say let the club take all the time it needs.
Future > present.
Slattery_20
20 Sep 2010, 08:48
Patience is a virtue.
Would you rather essendon appoint a great coach who will take the club forward and to its next premiership or do you want another matthew knights?
Also if you havnt noticed there arnt many if any top class midfielders available atm.
This time last year Burgoyne & Ball weren't available but hey presto they both changed clubs.
Seriously its time this club stopped fluffing around & went out & got a top mid. Every player is potentially available its just a matter of finding the right price & conditions. While we have 3rd world facilities that are being restricted by some geriatric lawn bowlers or we continue to be low spending tight arses we will continue to have a terrible midfield & no top players will want to come here.
Skeeta Olly
20 Sep 2010, 09:32
Some people are never pleased.
abers47
20 Sep 2010, 09:53
I don't think the club said this - it was the media. The club said it was their preferred option to have a coach in place by draft week, but they were not going to rush the decision! As they did last time.................. this is good. I think they will have him in place in making decisions by draft week!:thumbsu:
centurion
20 Sep 2010, 10:17
Some people are never pleased.
Yep. Last time we rushed it and it was a bad move. This time we're taking our time and again its a bad move.
Can't have everything. As slats said, patience is a virtue.
it's pretty clear the club is refusing to give anything away.
They are not giving out names, or a time frame. Sure, we would like it done before trade week but it could take longer..or it could not.
Just nothing statements, keeping everything in house.
The Angry Bomber
20 Sep 2010, 10:46
Would you rather essendon appoint a great coach who will take the club forward and to its next premiership or do you want another matthew knights?
Also if you havnt noticed there arnt many if any top class midfielders available atm.
Mundy?
Yep. Last time we rushed it and it was a bad move. This time we're taking our time and again its a bad move.
Can't have everything. As slats said, patience is a virtue.
Did we? We took too long last time & rather than getting the most obviously qualified person (Hardwick) we allowed ourselves to be sucked in by weeks of corporate speak & hired Knights who fit none of our stated criteria.
abers47
20 Sep 2010, 11:17
Just nothing statements, keeping everything in house.
.... and about time - the 'leaking' of information has been disgusting and very 'unessendon'!
The_Young_Gun
20 Sep 2010, 12:08
I'm tipping: Mundy is going to North Melbourne ;)
Also, in case we don't have a coach by trade week, or the draft.. Pretty sure we got Recruiters, Assistant Coaches and List Managers that all have at least more than half a brain to do the job just as well.
And if I understood correctly, if Matty Knights wasn't coach end of last year, we would have had Michael Barlow on our list. Knighta had the last word on it, and he said no!
So there'd be no person to have the last say on everything... but in reality not having a coach for the draft and trade period brings up a lot of issues which can **** up a lot of things.
You do realise, regardless of who is selected coach and when, that Hamilton will be running the show during trade week?
The_Young_Gun
20 Sep 2010, 12:37
You do realise, regardless of who is selected coach and when, that Hamilton will be running the show during trade week?
Well you'd expect our football operations manager to run things, as he has the biggest stake on how the club performs.
But that doesn't take away the fact that the Coach would have the biggest influence on Drafting, Trading.etc
I'm sure for example in the Barlow situation. Matty Knights would have gone to Hamilton and said "We don't need this guy" and Hamilton would have respected that decision whether it was right or not.
It's the same with the trade week, I'm sure hamilton would respect his lesser superiors opinion on the matter, as they'd have a better understanding on the matter..
He'd defer judgement in some cases, yes, but I would've thought Hamilton would have a preconceived idea of what we should and shouldn't be going for out there.
I think any potential Essendon coach would like to take Mundy for example.
We do know that but the coach still has some influence on the trade week.
The_Young_Gun
20 Sep 2010, 13:14
He'd defer judgement in some cases, yes, but I would've thought Hamilton would have a preconceived idea of what we should and shouldn't be going for out there.
I think any potential Essendon coach would like to take Mundy for example.
Of coarse, he has to have some sort of idea of what's in the best intentions of the club.
But in that re-guard, the best intentions of the club concerning the draft and trading would be the the responsibility of the coach and recruiters.
Hamilton would just have to overlook the power he has given to recruiters and the coach. And I think your right in saying, now after Matthew Knights has been fired, Hamilton would have to take some responsibility for allowing Knights to "stuff up". And Hamilton would have a bigger influence on things such as drafting and trade this year, regardless whether we have a coach yet or not, he'll definitely have to be much more observant, otherwise if things screw up again, he'll be next to face the chop!
Slattery_20
20 Sep 2010, 13:19
Of coarse, he has to have some sort of idea of what's in the best intentions of the club.
But in that re-guard, the best intentions of the club concerning the draft and trading would be the the responsibility of the coach and recruiters.
Hamilton would just have to overlook the power he has given to recruiters and the coach. And I think your right in saying, now after Matthew Knights has been fired, Hamilton would have to take some responsibility for allowing Knights to "stuff up". And Hamilton would have a bigger influence on things such as drafting and trade this year, regardless whether we have a coach yet or not, he'll definitely have to be much more observant, otherwise if things screw up again, he'll be next to face the chop!
Hamilton gave Knights' power? Yeah? Going with that?
I don't think you know what you're talking about.
He got there a year into Knights' tenure.
btw what's a "Lesser superior"? You mean his immediate superiors? Or his inferiors?
whats_at_stake
20 Sep 2010, 13:20
What about all the players who might be leaving? Will we lose Davey, Jetta, Myers, Houli because they have no idea what the new coach thinks of them?
The EFC has done nothing for ages. As soon as Knights was sacked they should have interviewed all the coaches instead of doing nothing. Sure take as long as you want with second round interviews, interviewing Bomber now etc. but start something sooner.
The_Young_Gun
20 Sep 2010, 13:31
Hamilton gave Knights' power? Yeah? Going with that?
I don't think you know what you're talking about.
He got there a year into Knights' tenure.
Why does that matter?
Also, If Hamilton didn't allow Knights to have an influence (i.e. Power) on drafting players and trading. Then what's the point in having a coach on draft day or during trading week?
If Hamiltons purpose as footy operations manager is to give the club the best chance to succeed, then I'm pretty sure, something like allowing Knights to have most influence when drafting a player, is nothing unusual.
The_Young_Gun
20 Sep 2010, 13:33
btw what's a "Lesser superior"? You mean his immediate superiors? Or his inferiors?
His lower pecking order.
Slattery_20
20 Sep 2010, 13:42
Why does that matter?
Also, If Hamilton didn't allow Knights to have an influence (i.e. Power) on drafting players and trading. Then what's the point in having a coach on draft day or during trading week?
If Hamiltons purpose as footy operations manager is to give the club the best chance to succeed, then I'm pretty sure, something like allowing Knights to have most influence when drafting a player, is nothing unusual.
You're still saying it like Hamilton is Knights' direct boss. I don't think that's the case. He takes some of the workload off the senior coach. AFAIK the coach reports only to the board.
Football manager is somewhere beneath that in the hierarchy. And I definitely don't think he'd get there & immediately start telling his boss what to do.
Slattery_20
20 Sep 2010, 13:44
His lower pecking order.
I still don't understand you. I don't think he has a "pecking order".
People who are lower than him in the pecking order?
As soon as Knights was sacked they should have interviewed all the coaches instead of doing nothing. Sure take as long as you want with second round interviews, interviewing Bomber now etc. but start something sooner.
And how the heck do you know what they have or havnt done? how do you know potential coaches were first sounded out weeks, if not months before knights was officially released from his duties? ;)
I am not sure if I am speaking out of school, but it was a while ago and a former employee (current at the time) told me Judd was told who was going to coach Essendon before he decided on Carlton, and it is Judd/his manager who the club thinks let the cat out of the bag (Knights was announced earlier than Essendon wanted at the time) as word got out quickly.
Irrelevant now I know, but if you are waiting for the Sun to tell you who what we are doing, or what current or potential players know/dont know you are deluded.
The_Young_Gun
20 Sep 2010, 13:52
You're still saying it like Hamilton is Knights' direct boss. I don't think that's the case. He takes some of the workload off the senior coach. AFAIK the coach reports only to the board.
Football manager is somewhere beneath that in the hierarchy. And I definitely don't think he'd get there & immediately start telling his boss what to do.
Well Hamilton is listed as "Senior Management".
And GM would usually come next in line after CEO?
That's what's backing my assumption that he'd have a higher say over someone like the coach. But now I'm guessing its different for footy?
Maybe Hamilton's role isn't as conservative, if the board set Knights his goals.
The_Young_Gun
20 Sep 2010, 13:55
I still don't understand you. I don't think he has a "pecking order".
People who are lower than him in the pecking order?
I'm assuming GM would be more superior than the Coach, Recruiters, Assistants.
CEO > GM > Coach > Assistant Coachs... Get the picture?
Slattery_20
20 Sep 2010, 14:02
I'm assuming GM would be more superior than the Coach, Recruiters, Assistants.
CEO > GM > Coach > Assistant Coachs... Get the picture?
It's your use of language that I struggled with. "more superior than" is just shit clunky structure. Should be "superior to".
As far as I can tell:
Board > CEO & Coach > Football manager, recruiters, list manager, marketing managers, financial people > assistants, lower-level recruiting people, fitness.
The coach does not report to the CEO*, he reports to the board.
Altho it's all reasonably team-oriented. Not quite a rigid hierarchy like that.
*Obvious exception to that rule is when Peter Jackson got a spot on the board, don't think that's still in place.
The_Young_Gun
20 Sep 2010, 14:17
It's your use of language that I struggled with. "more superior than" is just shit clunky structure. Should be "superior to".
As far as I can tell:
Board > CEO & Coach > Football manager, recruiters, list manager, marketing managers, financial people > assistants, lower-level recruiting people, fitness.
The coach does not report to the CEO*, he reports to the board.
Altho it's all reasonably team-oriented. Not quite a rigid hierarchy like that.
*Obvious exception to that rule is when Peter Jackson got a spot on the board, don't think that's still in place.
My bad. I get told that all the time :p
Well like I said, the clubs organisational structure is not as conservative as I thought.
But I would've thought that, even disregarding that the Coach reports to the board, Hamilton would have most influence in the clubs actions, which includes such things as, from the appointment of a coach, to the drafting of a player.
Slattery_20
20 Sep 2010, 14:25
Dunno what you're referring to as conservative. If you're talking about a financial institution, from the POV of "Organisational structures 101" it's a different world to a footy club.
I'm pretty sure Keane would have by far the biggest input on any given recruitment call. The senior coach just would not have the time to scout out every option, to collate & evaluate all the reports, to work out strategies & contingencies on the draft.
The coach or someone might set the first priority - I want mids, I want a running backman - but it's largely the recruiting guy's call.
Not sure on coaching appointments. Would be some sort of panel, I'm sure. Last time around I believe Knights hand-picked his assistants. Think the board (probably + Hamilton & CEO) is running it this time around.
Given there has been no confirmed formal interviews...and only confirmed informal discussions (Richardson by text to Harford on SEN last Thursday), we may still have a long way to go in terms of process being undertaken.
And if that's the case, so be it. Means more time for interested applicants to apply and be considered.
knightsgone
21 Sep 2010, 14:20
I want a coach by the end of this week. So we have no chance what so ever in securing Tambling
I want a coach by the end of this week. So we have no chance what so ever in securing Tambling
If we recruit tambling im seriously going to vomit.
We definetly need a new coach ASAP and a good one at that so we don't let go alot of our talent that we have spent good draft picks and $$$ on,
i.e - houli , myers , jetta
What a waste it would be!!
TheDon35
21 Sep 2010, 18:11
So we should rush into it like last time and end up with a disaster like Matthew Ignition Knights as coach for 3 years. I'll take my chances at not pulling off a recruiting miracle at the trade table for the sake of appointing the right coach to lead us to the next flag.
knightsgone
21 Sep 2010, 19:03
So we should rush into it like last time and end up with a disaster like Matthew Ignition Knights as coach for 3 years. I'll take my chances at not pulling off a recruiting miracle at the trade table for the sake of appointing the right coach to lead us to the next flag.
Worst case scenario it would be Richardson. Listening to him on SEN seems to know what his doing but.
Ross Lyon was appointed after trade week in 2007, look how the Saints are going now!
Would like a similar situation at Essendon..
Do not look at a date, just look for the best possible candidate...
and get him!
TheMagicRat
22 Sep 2010, 17:42
I have to disagree with everyone who who believes that we should wait until post trade week to appoint a coach. I for one do not Adrian Dodoro running the show solo come trade week. In fact he should have been sacked with Knights. He is a hold over from Sheedy and in my view equally responsible for such amazing works of drafting and trading as Hennerman, Judd Lalich, Ty Zantuc, Shane Harvey, Foster-Knight etc, etc, etc. We need the coach in before trade week to ensure that they have a chance to bring in their own recruiting staff to assess the list and what is available in trades and drafts.
This is looming as the most important draft in the last 20yrs given the impact GC will have on it and the position the club is in. We need people who are not going to make the same mistakes we have been making for the last decade!
Duckworth
22 Sep 2010, 18:57
I have to disagree with everyone who who believes that we should wait until post trade week to appoint a coach. I for one do not Adrian Dodoro running the show solo come trade week. In fact he should have been sacked with Knights. He is a hold over from Sheedy and in my view equally responsible for such amazing works of drafting and trading as Hennerman, Judd Lalich, Ty Zantuc, Shane Harvey, Foster-Knight etc, etc, etc. We need the coach in before trade week to ensure that they have a chance to bring in their own recruiting staff to assess the list and what is available in trades and drafts.
This is looming as the most important draft in the last 20yrs given the impact GC will have on it and the position the club is in. We need people who are not going to make the same mistakes we have been making for the last decade!
What about the ones that he got right? Look at the last 3 years.
Slattery_20
23 Sep 2010, 08:36
I'm pretty sure Henno, Lalich, and RFK were Judkins selections. (Think he left late 90s).
Either way.
FFS for the 100th time...
Dodoro is not the recruiter.
He does list management now.
Dodoro only had a couple of drafts to himself. Sheedy was doing a lot of it before about 2005(?). Dodoro was always only part-time in recruiting, had other roles (welfare, list stuff) during the week.
No surprise our recruiting was sub-par when it was down to two part-timers.
Dodoro went full-time to recruiting at some point, now he's been shifted to list management.
Then got Merv Keane over about 2007(?), who is the full-time head recruiter, has more say on the calls.
At trade week, depending if there's a coach or not:
Hamilton, possibly Keane (not sure), Alan Richardson and Dodoro will handle things.
On that list slatts...
Head table: Hamilton, Keane
The others: The rest of the match committee.
The talk about whether our ability to land a "big fish" is being jeopardised by the absence of a head coach seems to be rendered moot. IF Hird was to come back as head coach, there doesn't seem to be a wealth of quality players on the move - Mundy, Griffin, Knights etc.. have signed.
Does anybody else have the feeling Essendon aren't going to bring in the quality mids we need during this trade period?
The talk about whether our ability to land a "big fish" is being jeopardised by the absence of a head coach seems to be rendered moot. IF Hird was to come back as head coach, there doesn't seem to be a wealth of quality players on the move - Mundy, Griffin, Knights etc.. have signed.
Does anybody else have the feeling Essendon aren't going to bring in the quality mids we need during this trade period?
Dispite the desperate need, we have not been able to get quality mids via trade for a decade (we've ignored them in the draft as well). Why would this year be any different?
We couldn't land Burgoyne when we had a coach, Ball wouldn't even talk to us & again this year there will be nothing but excuses.