Two Years On - Spinning Woes Continue

[The Fonz]

Two Years Ago - Cameron White was the spinner for the tour of India. Jason Krejza also played a Test while Michael Clarke bowled a lot of overs.

Now Hauritz is back in favor while North is the back-up. Clarke and Katich aren't bowling as much as they used to.

I think they have to bite the bullet with Smith. When push comes to shove, Hauritz just isn't good enough. Or they play Smith for North and play another bowler instead of Hauritz.

[whats_at_stake]

They should have supported Krejza. You need to back a player and actually bowl them with confidence. Ponting bowls Hauritz once with no attacking fields and gives him very little confidence.

Actually even India seem to have a rotating policy where Ojha, Misra and Chawla randomly get rotated in and out of the Test/ODI side without getting a number of games there.

[djrossie]

If Andrew Symonds hadn't lost the plot.......................... Seriously Hauritz is bowling as good as North. We need to find an off spinner who actually turns the ball or just play Steve Smith.
Also Bradd Hogg was the in the same age group as Warne and Macgill. They all seemed to retire at the same time.

[yummy6]

If Andrew Symonds hadn't lost the plot.......................... Seriously Hauritz is bowling as good as North. We need to find an off spinner who actually turns the ball or just play Steve Smith.
Also Bradd Hogg was the in the same age group as Warne and Macgill. They all seemed to retire at the same time.

I think we just need to find any kind of spinner! As mentioned above some of the fields set for Hauritz are stupid.

[krusden]

They should have supported Krejza. You need to back a player and actually bowl them with confidence. Ponting bowls Hauritz once with no attacking fields and gives him very little confidence.

Actually even India seem to have a rotating policy where Ojha, Misra and Chawla randomly get rotated in and out of the Test/ODI side without getting a number of games there.

the way he was treated was nothing short of a disgrace.

[saint_larry]

the way he was treated was nothing short of a disgrace.

agreed. Ricky puts every fielder on the legside on the boundary, complains when he leaks runs.
And nowadays, hauritz leaks runs, its because the indian pitch apparently wasnt spin friendly.
TO be fair, krejza was lucky as hell to get a debut in the frist place.

[Doodlesweaver]

agreed. Ricky puts every fielder on the legside on the boundary, complains when he leaks runs.
And nowadays, hauritz leaks runs, its because the indian pitch apparently wasnt spin friendly.
TO be fair, krejza was lucky as hell to get a debut in the frist place.

Punter only gives Hauritz attacking fields AFTER he's taken one or two wickets.

Strauss on the other hands sticks fielders right under the noses of batsmen on either side and with a slip as soon as Swann comes on. The English commentators complain about Strauss not having a third man all the time but when it comes to Swann, he gives him every chance in the world to pick up wickets early..

[saint_larry]

Punter only gives Hauritz attacking fields AFTER he's taken one or two wickets.

Strauss on the other hands sticks fielders right under the noses of batsmen on either side and with a slip as soon as Swann comes on. The English commentators complain about Strauss not having a third man all the time but when it comes to Swann, he gives him every chance in the world to pick up wickets early..

and it usually pays off, swann always seems to take a wicket in his first over, or in is opening spell.
How is it that our spin bowling is in shambles, and the poms are stable as hell? crazy times.

[Reincarnation]

It is useless saying 'we have to find a spinner' as if the talent is not there, it is not going to suddenly pop up from nowhere.

What did Kreja do to not get a look in? He is an aggressive player who looks to take wickets where Hauritz's main aim is bowling the ball.

[Johnson#26]

As if that was two years ago...how fast does time go?!

[Phone]

think ponting just needs to handle hauritz better. got blacklisted after one bad over. disgraceful.

[holybishop]

Ponting doesnt know how to handle spinners. Warne ran riot because he set his own fields and Ponting let him. Ponting single handedly destroyed the international careers of spinners like Krejza and McGain and will eventually do the same to Hauritz.

[bombersno1]

Problem is it is not as if the options are there. Lets be honest here, Steve Smith is a better version of Cameron White (batsman that can bowl). I like the look of Cullen Bailey, but he needs to be more consistent.

[Damon_3388]

I still don't understand how Krejza can take an 8-fer on debut, and then gets dumped on the basis of a one-wicket performance in Perth of all places. Fair enough, that debut haul was on a turning Indian wicket, and his overall economy rate wasn't the best, particularly for an off-spinner (4.52 an over), but he still took a wicket fairly regularly during his stint in the Australian side - strike rate of one wicket per 57.1 balls. Graeme Swann's career test strike rate is 54.1 by comparison.

An interesting comparison between Krejza's only two tests, and the first two tests of Shane Warne:

Jason Krezja
Balls bowled - 743
Maiden overs - 8
Economy rate - 4.53 runs per over
Wickets - 13
Average - 43.23 runs per wicket taken
Strike rate - 57.1 balls per wicket taken
5 wicket hauls - 1

Shane Warne
Balls bowled - 408
Maiden overs - 9
Economy rate - 3.35 runs per over
Wickets - 1
Average - 228.00 runs per wicket taken
Strike rate - 408 balls per wicket taken
5 wicket hauls - 0

Warne's career strike rate never dipped below Krezja's 57.1 mark either - Warne's lowest mark of 57.2 came in November 2005. Warne didn't dip below a strike rate of 60 until his 109th test.

Another interesting comparison:

Nathan Hauritz (16 tests in total)
Balls bowled - 3,889
Maiden overs - 139
Economy rate - 3.04 runs per over
Wickets - 60
Average - 32.91 runs per wicket taken
Strike rate - 64.8 balls per wicket taken
5 wicket hauls - 2

Shane Warne (after 16 tests)
Balls bowled - 4,520
Maiden overs - 271
Economy rate - 2.23 runs per over
Wickets - 60
Average - 28.06 runs per wicket taken
Strike rate - 75.3 balls per wicket taken
5 wicket hauls - 2

[bombersno1]

Krezja just bowls too much crap to be in teh side. He bowls 4 "boundary" balls an over, and good batsmen will put them away. People can bag Hauritz but he gets wickets (averages 4 wickets a test) which is more than reasonable. We can't have Johnson and Krejza in the same team, they would leak 300 runs a day!

[dan warna]

how many of hauritz wickets were paid for by pakistani bookmakers?

england 10@ 32.10
india 8@ 33.00
NZ 8@ 44.75
RSA 2@50.8
WI 3@33
---
Pak 18@23.05

yes hauritz is awful.

[bombersno1]

Yet he has a better average than Krejza in every one of those countries, except SA..and Krejza averages over 200 against them anyway!

[saint_larry]

People can bag Hauritz but he gets wickets (averages 4 wickets a test) which is more than reasonable.

krejza averages 6 and a half wickets per test.
which is more than more than reasonable, no?

[dan warna]

getting wickets but leaking runs like an australian swimmer at the delhi games still results in a loss.

the idea is to get wickets at a reasonable enough rate to win games.

getting wickets at any cost is not a winning strategy, unless it comes with the blessing of a pakistani bookmaker :D

[whats_at_stake]

Bishan Bedi has it spot on I think.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/indin-great-bishen-bedi-takes-ricky-ponting-to-task-over-handling-of-nathan-hauritz/story-fn2mcu3x-1225936292209

[holybishop]

Bishan Bedi has it spot on I think.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/cricket/australia/indin-great-bishen-bedi-takes-ricky-ponting-to-task-over-handling-of-nathan-hauritz/story-fn2mcu3x-1225936292209

He has absolutely hit the nail on the head.

[bombersno1]

krejza averages 6 and a half wickets per test.
which is more than more than reasonable, no?

Yet Krejza goes at 5 an over- too damn expensive. He bowls meat pies half the time which get belted.

[chenyan]

Steve Smith may one day be the answer, but he is not ready.

Agree with Bedi; Hauritz needs support from Ricky. As much as I used to bag Hauritz, he's our best bet at the moment

[holybishop]

I'd rather not see Smith come in with Ponting still as captain.

[bombersno1]

Steve Smith may one day be the answer, but he is not ready.

Agree with Bedi; Hauritz needs support from Ricky. As much as I used to bag Hauritz, he's our best bet at the moment

I wish people get it through their thick heads that Steve Smith is a batsman first and foremost- in other words a 100 times better version of Cameron White! He will bat in the top 6.

[BarneyBent]

Problem is it is not as if the options are there. Lets be honest here, Steve Smith is a better version of Cameron White (batsman that can bowl). I like the look of Cullen Bailey, but he needs to be more consistent.

Smith is a (potentially) better bowler than White. Gets more turn, more drift, more flight, more dip and has more tricks. Smith's problem is control. Too many full tosses, long hops and balls down leg side which release pressure and mess up bowling plans (especially in FC cricket). If he eliminates those, he'll be a very, very capable bowler indeed.

That said, there's no guarantee he'll never gain elite control, and he is a better batsman. I can see him forging a place at 6 and being a 5th bowler/2nd spinner, or being a slighter under-par 1st spinner and giving us the flexibility of playing 4 quicks (5 if you include Watson). I'd like to see him play some more FC cricket for NSW though.

In the mean time, Hauritz is doing a decent job. He's not a fantastic bowler. He's a good, solid bowler. A known quantity, who is getting the job done when nobody else has the consistency and control to do so. He isn't a game breaker, and that's unfortunate, but he's holding his own at international level.

[Doodlesweaver]

Steve Smith may one day be the answer, but he is not ready.

Agree with Bedi; Hauritz needs support from Ricky. As much as I used to bag Hauritz, he's our best bet at the moment

Bedi makes good points about the effect of the fields on the bowlers' capabilities.

You only need to watch the fields set for Swann as soon as he comes on to see the world of difference in how the captains approach the use of their no 1 spin bowler.

Punter will never really trust anyone that isn't Warne.

[Big Ted]

Krezja just bowls too much crap to be in teh side. He bowls 4 "boundary" balls an over, and good batsmen will put them away. People can bag Hauritz but he gets wickets (averages 4 wickets a test) which is more than reasonable. We can't have Johnson and Krejza in the same team, they would leak 300 runs a day!

more than reasonable ? 4 wickets a test for the No#1 spinner in the side ?? That is nothing short of disgraceful. Spinners (they way pitches are made these days) should come into their own in days 4 and 5. Haurtiz cant.

Haurtiz is a one day and 20/20 spinner. No spin, its all line and length. Geez he may as well trundle off a few steps and just bowl medium pace off cutters.

There is no way though that Smith can replace Haurtiz. As ordinary as Hauritz can be, there is no way that Smith is ready to play the number one spinning option. Hell would freeze over or St.Kilda might win a flag before that should happen !

Ponting has no faith in his spinners. No matter who they are (warney excluded)

[BarneyBent]

more than reasonable ? 4 wickets a test for the No#1 spinner in the side ?? That is nothing short of disgraceful. Spinners (they way pitches are made these days) should come into their own in days 4 and 5. Haurtiz cant.

Um, are you serious? 4 wickets a Test is a perfectly fine record. You realise Shane Warne averaged 4.8? Harbhajan, one of the better current offies in world cricket, averages 4.2? Most succesful Test bowlers, regardless of being a spinner or seamer, average around the 4 wickets a game mark, with the really, really good ones getting up to 4.5 or so.

Nobody is claiming Hauritz is a superstar. He's not. But he's a good solid bowler, holding his own at international level. Honestly, if you think 4 wickets a test is "disgraceful", then you've got absolutely no idea.

[lemmon]

Nobody is claiming Hauritz as a world beater but to this point he has performed admirably and played his role. He's the best we've got and the real problem lies with Ponting not Hauritz. A little bit of confidence and faith can go a long way.

[Big Ted]

Um, are you serious? 4 wickets a Test is a perfectly fine record. You realise Shane Warne averaged 4.8? Harbhajan, one of the better current offies in world cricket, averages 4.2? Most succesful Test bowlers, regardless of being a spinner or seamer, average around the 4 wickets a game mark, with the really, really good ones getting up to 4.5 or so.

Nobody is claiming Hauritz is a superstar. He's not. But he's a good solid bowler, holding his own at international level. Honestly, if you think 4 wickets a test is "disgraceful", then you've got absolutely no idea.

take away this wickets from the test in Sydney against the Paki's and his test record is average at best.

You need a wicket taking spinner, all teams do. Haurtiz contains. Great for one dayers, crap for tests.

[bombersno1]

Yet the other options are worse. I am sorry by Hauritz is similar to Grahame Swann, who does a good job for England. Now not every spinner will be your next Shane Warne. Lets be honest your love affair with Krejza despite being an absolute pie thrower is a joke. Hauritz is doing a good job.

[Selective Retention]

Krejza was stiffed at the time but he hasn't exactly proven the selectors wrong. Xavier Doherty (a good one day bowler, less effective than Hauritz in 4 dayers) was picked ahead of him in the shield for Tassie towards the end of last year and made the squad ahead of him for the first game against Queensland.

[bombersno1]

I didn't tgink he was stiffed, he should never have been picked in the first place..what was his FC average..50 or something!