Paine or Haddin [Archive]

Absolute Gun

16 Oct 2010, 13:33

Who do you think will Keep for Australia in the Ashes??

Obviously it will be out of Paine and Haddin.

I'm hoping Paine.

bombersno1

16 Oct 2010, 13:40

I would rather the best keeper and that is clearly Paine. I would rather Paine coming in at 5/100 rather than Haddin.

Blue Dimension

16 Oct 2010, 13:52

Haddin.

We need somone down the order to excert some authority considdering we have North at 6.

Arguably though you could say that we need someone who can hold up the batting lineup considdering how often it has been collapsing..

Sylvia Saint

16 Oct 2010, 14:06

Fix up the middle order and re-instate Haddin. I like Paine though, won't bother me too much who they go with.

dan warna

16 Oct 2010, 14:19

we also need to take wickets and haddin is average at best at keepi

what ever he scores is wasted in the dropped catches.

Paine then Wade.

Haddin isn't going to get better while paine and wade are already on par with haddin with the bat plenty of room to get better, and both are far superior keepers.

persisting with haddin is wasting time and losing matches.

BACCS

16 Oct 2010, 14:25

dan warna

16 Oct 2010, 14:28

It is a 50/50 call, and either way it shouldn't affect how we go, but I'd stick with Paine. However, I can see Haddin coming straight back in, knowing our selectors and their stance on experienced players.

no matter which is the better player in the better form...

I still think the dropping of michael hussey for martyn and/katich when hussey was in career best form, and katich and martyn were struggling at the time, contributed immensely to breaking our ashes streak.

The Reaper

16 Oct 2010, 14:30

Axel.

16 Oct 2010, 15:26

Paine has the ability to bat with the tail.

Covvy

16 Oct 2010, 15:50

Why aren't the selectors smart and have both of them in the XI, dropping North. They can rotate the keeping by switching after each session.

The Reaper

16 Oct 2010, 16:01

Why aren't the selectors smart and have both of them in the XI, dropping North. They can rotate the keeping by switching after each session.

Because our batting stocks are not that pathetic that Haddin would get a look in for a top 6 position.

King Elvis

16 Oct 2010, 17:38

Fix up the middle order and re-instate Haddin. I like Paine though, won't bother me too much who they go with.

This.

Haddin can come in and blast a quick 40 - but with Huss/North before the keeper, at present, we need somebody a bit more stable who can build an innings.

So Paine.

But Rad Haddin when the middle order stop ingesting testicles.

Dagger5

16 Oct 2010, 17:44

Paine easily. Much more dependable, younger, less prone to brain explosions and isn't a wanker like Haddin.

Dr Awkward

16 Oct 2010, 18:06

dan warna

16 Oct 2010, 21:26

Paine is a far superior batsman. Not sure about he keeping, probably about even.

Never liked Haddin he makes too many stupid decisions and isn't trustworthy. Love Paine, he has ability, class, and guts.

Haddin isn't in the top 2 keepers in Australia

Haddin isn't in the top 10 batsmen in Australia

why he is even discussed as a selection option is beyond me. But then we have the australian selectors...

potatomasher

16 Oct 2010, 21:40

Easy to forget, but Haddin is a really good batsman and has stood up a few times when the rest have collapsed. I like Paine and want him to stay in the team, but if Haddin gets in he's earnt it.

Cooldude

16 Oct 2010, 21:54

Easy to forget, but Haddin is a really good batsman and has stood up a few times when the rest have collapsed. I like Paine and want him to stay in the team, but if Haddin gets in he's earnt it.

Seriously? All I ever remember Haddin doing during a pressure situation is play some dumb shot and get out

shinboner magic

16 Oct 2010, 22:06

Its got to be paine.

He is all class and a future leader of Australia.

Play Haddin in the AUssie seconds(NSW)

bombersno1

17 Oct 2010, 00:06

Easy to forget, but Haddin is a really good batsman and has stood up a few times when the rest have collapsed. I like Paine and want him to stay in the team, but if Haddin gets in he's earnt it.

Go on give examples. I have never seen Haddin not throw his wicket away when under pressure, always with an incredibly dumb shot!:thumbsd:

Speck

17 Oct 2010, 00:43

Haddin will play.

Prefer Paine though.

dan warna

17 Oct 2010, 08:26

King Elvis

17 Oct 2010, 12:11

Go on give examples. I have never seen Haddin not throw his wicket away when under pressure, always with an incredibly dumb shot!:thumbsd:

When he first came into the side, he played quite a few good, responsible innings; but it's been a long time since then.

potatomasher

17 Oct 2010, 14:59

Seriously? All I ever remember Haddin doing during a pressure situation is play some dumb shot and get out

Go on give examples. I have never seen Haddin not throw his wicket away when under pressure, always with an incredibly dumb shot!:thumbsd:

welcome to alternative reality world....:rolleyes:

This is another of those convenient opinions, a bit like Clarke crumbling under pressure. He plays dumb shots, sure, he's an attacking batsman with a fairly flawed technique. But he has stood up when it has mattered a few times when we've been no good. When Australia has been at its worst, he has sometimes looked to be our best batsman.

In the 08/09 South Africa series here, at Perth, a game also known for being Krezja's demise, after we weren't looking too hot with Ponting and Hussey both getting ducks and being at 5/166, Haddin steps in with a solid 46 to help us to a first innings total of 375. Not world-beating, but he didn't throw his wicket away the second he got in as you all reckon he does. In the second innings, he came in at 5/148. With a well-made 94, he got our total up to 319, a seemingly unchasable 400+ runs ahead. Obviously that didn't work out as Krezja got slapped all over the place and got given a little break from Test cricket that is still going.

In the third Test of the 09 series over there, Steyn ripped us apart. Haddin got 42 with Katich, those two batsmen being the two top-scorers in a total of just 209. South Africa responded with 651, so it was to no avail, but it doesn't change that Haddin looked to be one of our best when we were in trouble.

In the 2nd Test of the Ashes last year, Haddin was one of the only three of the actual batsmen who managed to make double figures in the first innings. Most people would remember in the second innings Clarke pulling his finger out that game and getting a magnificent 136, but most would also forget the guy at the other end was Haddin getting 80, in an innings where we were chasing about 520 and made it look almost possible.

There are plenty of examples of when Haddin has scored runs when everyone has been batting well, but that's natural, the bowlers are pretty deflated when he comes in so he slaps them around. But when we're bad, he has been alright also.

As I said earlier, I want Paine to stay in. I'm a partially biased Tasmanian, but I think Paine is a better option looking forward. But Haddin plays straight, hits the ball hard, and can stand up when the rest of the team don't. Not as good of a keeper, but he has the runs on the board. It wouldn't be that unfair if he got his spot back.

PunyHumans!!!

17 Oct 2010, 16:38

I think Haddin will be recalled. Starting to lean more towards Paine as first choice though.

dan warna

17 Oct 2010, 17:12

since his last century in july last year...

28, 80, 14, 1, 34, 38, 44no, 21no, 88, 23, dnb, 0, 6, 15, 41, 8, 11no, dnb, 12, 48...

throw in the numerous dropped catches, his contribution to the team is neglible.

even his runs are offset by the average keeping.

Johnson#26

17 Oct 2010, 18:29

Oh boy this can't even be a question. Paine by the length of 100000 Flemington Straights. It's not even funny. He is the future, and the future has to be now.

Haddin's a flat track bully. Scores a ton vs NZ on a road in Adelaide. Who freaking cares? I'd be scoring runs the way it was. To be honest I've never been a fan, particularly since he made it his business to get involved in the whole Symonds-Sreesanth thing in the India ODIs in Oct. 07. Bring back Ryan Campbell! :p

Not to mention that he's always racing to 32 (always 32) with carefree shots and he'll always get to 28-32 and go one big down the ground shot too many and get caught on the fence. He is not Gilly. No one else is clearly, but he is nowhere near Gilly. Haven't even mentioned the concept of wicketkeeping.

Paine every single Test/ODI from hereon in for the next decade.

But you just know how the side for the Gabba's gonna be picked.

BarneyBent

17 Oct 2010, 18:41

I'm happy with either. The bad press Haddin gets is unjustified IMO, he has scored plenty of runs when we've needed it (more than North, I'd wager), but on the other hand, Paine has really impressed me since coming into the side. Tough choice, not really fussed.

dan warna

17 Oct 2010, 19:25

its not just the lack of runs, its his average keeping as well

DeadlyAkkuret

17 Oct 2010, 21:13

Because our batting stocks are not that pathetic that Haddin would get a look in for a top 6 position.

http://wisdencricketer.com/blogs/files/2010/07/North.jpg

gbatman

18 Oct 2010, 06:14

Haddin can not keep. He doesn't make runs when we need them. Pain is an excellent keeper and a very handy batsman

King Elvis

18 Oct 2010, 09:22

Haddin's keeping was made to look a lot worse than it is by the efforts of Johnson & Co during the Ashes and Indian Series.

Dr Awkward

18 Oct 2010, 09:24

Not only does Paine have more talent but he seems to have a much better cricketing head on his shoulders. He at least looks like you can trust him. Haddin claims to know all this sh*t in articles and interviews but then gets out there and looks like his head is hollow.

Paine is a classy batsman, watch a highlight reel of any half century he hits, he can hit it to all parts of the ground and against all forms of bowling.

sammy 2

18 Oct 2010, 18:40

paine.hes simply a better keeper.

Rumblah#16

18 Oct 2010, 21:05

Been saying it since Gilchrist retired that Paine should have been thrown in the deep end.

Better glove-man, more technically correct batsman, and now has runs on the board at test level.

He will sadly get dropped for Haddin, who is a joke himself.

The Reaper

19 Oct 2010, 21:08

This is another of those convenient opinions, a bit like Clarke crumbling under pressure. He plays dumb shots, sure, he's an attacking batsman with a fairly flawed technique. But he has stood up when it has mattered a few times when we've been no good. When Australia has been at its worst, he has sometimes looked to be our best batsman.

In the 08/09 South Africa series here, at Perth, a game also known for being Krezja's demise, after we weren't looking too hot with Ponting and Hussey both getting ducks and being at 5/166, Haddin steps in with a solid 46 to help us to a first innings total of 375. Not world-beating, but he didn't throw his wicket away the second he got in as you all reckon he does. In the second innings, he came in at 5/148. With a well-made 94, he got our total up to 319, a seemingly unchasable 400+ runs ahead. Obviously that didn't work out as Krezja got slapped all over the place and got given a little break from Test cricket that is still going.

In the third Test of the 09 series over there, Steyn ripped us apart. Haddin got 42 with Katich, those two batsmen being the two top-scorers in a total of just 209. South Africa responded with 651, so it was to no avail, but it doesn't change that Haddin looked to be one of our best when we were in trouble.

In the 2nd Test of the Ashes last year, Haddin was one of the only three of the actual batsmen who managed to make double figures in the first innings. Most people would remember in the second innings Clarke pulling his finger out that game and getting a magnificent 136, but most would also forget the guy at the other end was Haddin getting 80, in an innings where we were chasing about 520 and made it look almost possible.

There are plenty of examples of when Haddin has scored runs when everyone has been batting well, but that's natural, the bowlers are pretty deflated when he comes in so he slaps them around. But when we're bad, he has been alright also.

As I said earlier, I want Paine to stay in. I'm a partially biased Tasmanian, but I think Paine is a better option looking forward. But Haddin plays straight, hits the ball hard, and can stand up when the rest of the team don't. Not as good of a keeper, but he has the runs on the board. It wouldn't be that unfair if he got his spot back.

I was at the WACA match and the pitch was a road (as shown by South Africa chasing down 400 which didn't suprise me in the slightest).

Haddin also commits suicide whenver he makes a good start. For his innings that you mentioned, how did he get out?

holybishop

20 Oct 2010, 01:33

When he first came into the side, he played quite a few good, responsible innings; but it's been a long time since then.

This is the problem with Australia. They recall players because they made runs in the past, despite their shocking form.

TassieSaint

20 Oct 2010, 14:20

For me, although we have a few weaknesses at the moment, our biggest by far is our middle order and it's propensity to collapse. Paine has an ability to stick around and keep Australia in the game that I think Haddin doesn't have. Not to mention the old adage catches win matches, and Paine is the better keeper. Would be a disappointing to see Paine dropped.

amer

20 Oct 2010, 14:29

Voted for who I'd prefer rather than who they will actually go with.

Paine.

Bomber Bears

20 Oct 2010, 21:14

For all this 'More technically correct' talk about Paine, Haddin scores more runs than him, at every level of the game. I think test cricket is tough but I'd have Haddin ahead of Paine in an instant in the ODI side.

Smokey_22

20 Oct 2010, 21:24

Whats with the Haddin hate? His batting technique is probably the best in the side. I would agree that Paine's glovework is better, but not by much. Haddin will go straight back in, and rightly so.

wavefall21

20 Oct 2010, 21:32

Tests - Paine
One Dayers - Haddin
T20 - Haddin

dan warna

21 Oct 2010, 04:41

ROFL at 33 or something haddin isn't going to get better.

the best two keepers in domestic cricket are paine and wade. Haddin is behind BOTH of these players.

Doodlesweaver

21 Oct 2010, 04:50

Tests - Paine
One Dayers - Haddin
T20 - Haddin

Haddin should only be in the one day side. I suggest you take a look at his cruddy sr in 20/20.

Dr Awkward

21 Oct 2010, 13:30

Opening the batting in ODIs with Paine or Haddin is just ridiculous. You have your best batsmen opening or maybe batting at No. 3 or 4. Haddin and Paine are good keeper batsmen and make a good option at No. 6 or 7 but to have them open is nothing short of a joke. They are not in the top 20 batsmen we have in the country.

The legacy that was left by Gilchrist is screwing with the selector's minds.

Doodlesweaver

21 Oct 2010, 22:09

Noobz0r

21 Oct 2010, 23:55

I wonder if the selectors peruse these forums...

thorne89

22 Oct 2010, 00:32

I wonder if the selectors peruse these forums...

Eagles and Aussie Cricket Team Selectors clearly get their info from Bay 13.

The Reaper

22 Oct 2010, 16:07

Yep agreed. It's like they can't think of what to do with a wicketkeeper unless he opens. Such a narrow viewpoint.

Especially with Paine.

In one dayers Paine will never be a good opener.

The selectors can't seem to realise that we aren't number one anymore and we have to adapt to changing situations by changing the team and changing tactics.

TheColeTrain

25 Oct 2010, 12:49

It is unfortunate for Tim Paine, having played so well for Australia recently, to miss out on this squad but Brad has made a very good recovery from his elbow injury and is an established member of our side in all forms of the game.

**** you Hilditch we are ranked 5th, our established side clearly isn't good enough. All but confirms Haddin will come straight in for the Ashes.
http://www.sen.com.au/display-article/Twostate-solution-for-T20/17083

YouDontKnowJack

27 Oct 2010, 08:02

81% Paine
19% Haddin

Think that speaks for itself.

Piefan16

30 Oct 2010, 22:58

Haddin's from NSW, says it all.....

tomemy

30 Oct 2010, 23:14

Should stick with Haddin for the tests and Matthew Wade for the shorter forms.

dan warna

31 Oct 2010, 06:48

Should stick with Haddin for the tests and Matthew Wade for the shorter forms.

paine or wade ahead of haddin in all forms of the game imo.

Bucking Beads

31 Oct 2010, 07:05

Should stick with Haddin for the tests and Matthew Wade for the shorter forms.

I'd most certainly have Wade ahead of Paine that is for sure.. Haddin probably deserves the summer but if he doesn't perform I'd be happy to see him gone,.

fightingfury_88

31 Oct 2010, 08:53

I would prefer Paine keeping right now but can understand keeping Haddin there for now.

dan warna

31 Oct 2010, 09:52

I would prefer Paine keeping right now but can understand keeping Haddin there for now.

why? paine is performing as well with the bat and better behind the stumps?

why select the inferior player?

is there some right to select an inferior player?

the logic of putting haddin back in over paine is baffling.

fightingfury_88

31 Oct 2010, 10:14

lionbear

31 Oct 2010, 10:21

Haddin only makes runs when Australia are 5/400, Paine any day of the week for me.

dan warna

31 Oct 2010, 12:30

Mainly because Haddin already has experience in an Ashes series. Like I said before I would much prefer Paine in the side as I think he offers a lot more consistency but I can understand the selectors wanting to stick with a much more experienced keeper/batsman in Haddin for this Ashes series.

This goes to my general opinion that we haven't had quality management in since end of the border era and much of the last 2 decades has been riding on the player management, discipline and training set down by border and simpson.

The NSW press have as much power as the national selectors.

Also I genuinely feel that we underperformed under tubby as good as we were, and only became the true power under s.waugh, who to some degree was the child of border and sawle and had his own steel edge after watching the executions dealt to australia under the windies.

Under ponting we have the residue of a great team, we select players by the NSW press, and who are mates, and on their reputation, or when we perceive there is no or little risk.

The discipline and steel under s.waugh has dissolved. We are like a great empire riding on our reputation and a hand full of one offs rather than the brutal machine we were 5 to 6 seasons ago.

I think the selectors contribute to the malaise.

Haddin is the 'low risk' option, NSW, mates with many of the players, solid, and his runs hide his incompetence behind the stumps. (he IS a good keeper but at international level, his work is definitely contributing to our failure).

Paine AND wade are better keepers than haddin.

both are equivalent or better batsmen. both are under 25 and therefore represent risk in the current thinking of the selectors.

Its time to bite the bullet and stop cruising. Draw a line in the team. Pick young guys like hazelwood, paine, doherty, and mid career players like white.

Make them fit, make them run, make them hungry.

Don't wait till they are 32/33 and have 'earned' their place at the twilight of their career. sure they'll get their 40s and 50s but they will be playing to hang on to their spots, not win.

As for brett lee....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Smokey_22

27 Nov 2010, 15:57

Haddins made some people look pretty stupid here.

Was always the best option.

DeadlyAkkuret

27 Nov 2010, 20:31

More gold from dan, you can just picture the vein in his forehead bulging when the NSW lad hit that ton.

dan warna

27 Nov 2010, 21:14

scored well and pulled us out of the fire with hussey, great innings, and atypical of what he and huss have shown us over the past year or so, but paine and wade and hartley are still better keepers :D

and besides a dirty cheating dishonest and dishonorable NSWman is still > pomme :D