View Full Version : Am I alone in rating Luke Butterworth?
Drummond
27 Oct 2010, 12:04
Why isn't this guy around the Australian scene? He was a couple of years back, but he seems to have lost ground, through injuries and the selectors turning to other players. He turns 27 tomorrow, so has enough experience but is still quite youthful.
Bowling all-rounder, who averages 28.24 with the ball in FC, and 27.06 with the bat. He's a very dangerous bowler who can generate good movement, and he's got the potential to score key runs batting at 7 or 8.
Buttsy. :thumbsu:
jackster83
27 Oct 2010, 12:12
Sounds a bit like James Hopes.
demon21
27 Oct 2010, 12:18
He is a very good bowler but i dont think his batting is good enough.
Bulldog Joe
27 Oct 2010, 12:19
He had a setback last year with, (I believe) some personal issues that affected his family.
He does have talent and scored a century in the Shield final won by Tassie about 3 seasons back.
Shutty05
27 Oct 2010, 12:29
He had a setback last year with, (I believe) some personal issues that affected his family.
He does have talent and scored a century in the Shield final won by Tassie about 3 seasons back.
After that final i thought he might have a crack at international in the future because we were crying out for an allrounder. He hasnt scored a run since which is terrible. His bowling is tight however would he get wickets at an international level? i dont think he would be dangerous enough. Great state player to have but
bombersno1
27 Oct 2010, 12:34
ODI cricketer, can't see him ever being a test cricketer
No, we want to keep him playing with Tasmania, not Australia ;)
Bucking Beads
27 Oct 2010, 15:18
I thought he was going to have a red hot crack at making the aussies side a few years back but sadly injuries have knocked the stuffing out of him. Maybe with a good summer he could be knocking on the door of selection.
He's talented but unless you dominate right from the outset you also need to be consistat to play at the highest level. I don't think Butterworth is consistent enough with the bat to get himself a gig and his bowling alone wont do it.
He is a very good bowler but i dont think his batting is good enough.
Talent wise I think his batting is good enough.
But he seriously struggles in turning starts into decent scores.
I can't be bothered extracting his scores, but look at his FC record (prior to this current game):
Inns - 53
Not Out - 5
Runs - 1299
HS - 116
Ave - 27.06
100 - 2
50 - 4
So he averages 27 with the bat - yet has only six scores over 50 and his average isn't inflated by either not outs or a remarkably big hundred. That suggests a lot of scores in there in the 15-40 range, which is my recollection of his batting in recent years. Even in this current game, he was out in the second innings for 39.
He needs to learn to turn starts into, at the very least, 50s.
looked a promising propsect a few years ago but hasnt progressed at all really. Injuries have hurt him and a year or 2 of consistent cricket needs to be acheived before even being considered.
Andrew McDonald is way ahead of him on the pecking order. Mitch Marsh is the next promosing prospect, can see him getting games within the next 18 months.
Bulldog Joe
28 Oct 2010, 13:51
looked a promising propsect a few years ago but hasnt progressed at all really. Injuries have hurt him and a year or 2 of consistent cricket needs to be acheived before even being considered.
Andrew McDonald is way ahead of him on the pecking order. Mitch Marsh is the next promosing prospect, can see him getting games within the next 18 months.
I know it is only one game buy mid way through the last day in this match
McDonald - work complete
Batting 0 and 2
Bowling 0/63 from 17 and 1/52 from 15 and supposedly an economical bowler.
Butterworth - not yet complete
Batting 0 and 39
Bowling 4/36 from 19.4 and 4/23 from 12
Butterworth certainly the more economical and more dangerous with the ball and scored useful runs when Tassie was under pressure. Pity he did not go on with it with the bat.
OzBomber
28 Oct 2010, 18:23
5 fa today, brilliant effort. Dominated for me whenever I used him on Cricket 05, and dominated today. :p
I know it is only one game buy mid way through the last day in this match
McDonald - work complete
Batting 0 and 2
Bowling 0/63 from 17 and 1/52 from 15 and supposedly an economical bowler.
Butterworth - not yet complete
Batting 0 and 39
Bowling 4/36 from 19.4 and 4/23 from 12
Butterworth certainly the more economical and more dangerous with the ball and scored useful runs when Tassie was under pressure. Pity he did not go on with it with the bat.
yeah i forgot, one game changes everything. McDonald is still miles ahead of butterworth, in all forms of the game.
Butterworth needs at least 18 months of consistent results
Bucking Beads
28 Oct 2010, 21:16
yeah i forgot, one game changes everything. McDonald is still miles ahead of butterworth, in all forms of the game.
Butterworth needs at least 18 months of consistent results
Is Ronald is so far ahead of Butterworth he should never get near an Aussie team.
OldSchool
28 Oct 2010, 22:01
I can't for the life of me know how he could get 9 wickets in an match. He is not much quicker than medium pace. He reminds me of Rodney Tucker but I don't think he is as good with the bat.
eddiesmith
28 Oct 2010, 22:31
I know it is only one game buy mid way through the last day in this match
McDonald - work complete
Batting 0 and 2
Bowling 0/63 from 17 and 1/52 from 15 and supposedly an economical bowler.
Butterworth - not yet complete
Batting 0 and 39
Bowling 4/36 from 19.4 and 4/23 from 12
Butterworth certainly the more economical and more dangerous with the ball and scored useful runs when Tassie was under pressure. Pity he did not go on with it with the bat.
But Ronnie is coming off a very quickfire 160 with the bat last game, got a few points on Butterworth this season
I can't for the life of me know how he could get 9 wickets in an match. He is not much quicker than medium pace. He reminds me of Rodney Tucker but I don't think he is as good with the bat.
He's a bit quicker than Tucker was.
He's certianly not express pace though but it's an early pitch at the MCG. Ian Harvey did his best shield bowling on early season pitches in Melbourne They tend to hold up a little of the pitch, the medium pacers have often being the best to exploit October at the MCG.
Bulldog Joe
29 Oct 2010, 04:09
But Ronnie is coming off a very quickfire 160 with the bat last game, got a few points on Butterworth this season
I am not suggesting Butterworth deserves a spot based on one game, but McDonald has done his chances no good in this game.
If either gets a call up it will be as a bowling all rounder and McDonald has NO POINTS for his bowling this season.
eddiesmith
29 Oct 2010, 23:33
I am not suggesting Butterworth deserves a spot based on one game, but McDonald has done his chances no good in this game.
If either gets a call up it will be as a bowling all rounder and McDonald has NO POINTS for his bowling this season.
Unless Watson breaks down before the 1st test then a batting all rounder spot definately up for grabs
Bulldog Joe
30 Oct 2010, 15:49
Unless Watson breaks down before the 1st test then a batting all rounder spot definately up for grabs
Watson would be replaced by a top 6 specialist batsman.
Drummond
19 Nov 2010, 11:25
He's really turning it on this season.
In the match vs NSW:
4/26 (14) & 1/43 (17)
39 & 44*
Awesome performance.
Smokey_22
19 Nov 2010, 11:34
Domestic forum.
Drummond
19 Nov 2010, 11:41
Domestic forum.
No, because we're talking his chances internationally. Don't be such a sook.
Thommo 42
19 Nov 2010, 11:52
just a plodder, rich mans James Hopes.
Not test standard at either discipline, and unlike McDonald, doesn't have a specialist feature that could make him useful.
McDonald is a plodder also, but he can play the pseudo spinner role by holding up an end for decent length spells.
Smokey_22
19 Nov 2010, 13:38
No, because we're talking his chances internationally. Don't be such a sook.
And the other players threads like Copeland, O'keefe etc could go here too - but they dont because theyre domestic players.
Having a great season is Butterworth.
Drummond
21 Feb 2011, 17:46
Took 6/51 today, his FC bowling average is now down to 23.98. :eek: :thumbsu:
Batting average of 26 needs improvement, but the potential is there, if he could lift that to 30, he'd come under international consideration.
Black Thunder
21 Feb 2011, 18:26
best bowling in first class cricket today.
wrote this about him last week in the vic-tas thread:
Obviously got loads of talent. May make a late charge for test cricket but injuries and a bit of a inconsistency has creamed him up until this season. There was a lot of excitment about him after that final a few years back. I think a few people throw him in the Andrew McDonald basket - good first class cricketer but not going to make it at test level. But Butterworth is a better bowler than McDonald. And i wouldn't agree with that assessment on either player although at the same time i wouldn't say that they would definately make it at the next level.
What will hurt Butterworth's chances of getting a crack is that he doesn't take many big hauls. He's more of an accumulator of wickets. 3 to 5 every match. that's not neccesarilly a bad thing but always keep him in the picture as a dependable back up should there be a bad run with injuries rather than a genuine front line option.
But he's come back with a bang this year and all he can keep doing is taking wickets and whilst he is doing that his name must be moving well up the list. i would like to know where he is in the selectors minds because someone of his ilk could be anywhere from one of the next couple of bowlers in line to totall written off as no chance of taking the next step....
still holds true i think but today obviously is a big day for him. first 6-fa in shield cricket.
he bowled very well today, and he's quick enough for test cricket, despite some peoples concerns.
he's definately a chance to make it as a bowler who can bat at number 8....
as i said in that quote it's very hard to guage where he is seen by the selectors.
The Reaper
22 Feb 2011, 11:55
I called for him to be our third seamer behind Siddle and Copeland a few months back.
Could be a good bowler and a useful lower order bat at 8.
Alex_au
22 Feb 2011, 15:46
James Faulkner is a better allrounder prospect then Butterworth. Batting in the top 6 for Tassie and also opening the bowling. Averages 35 with the bat, 21 with the ball :)
aussie1st
22 Feb 2011, 17:00
I haven't seen him or know his speed but if hes in the 110-120s then he'll struggle at the next level.
Tazwegian
22 Feb 2011, 19:35
Butterworth is a bloody weapon. Consistently gets wickets and always seems to make runs when it matters the most.
J Selwood14
22 Feb 2011, 21:39
he's on 91* at stumps too :D
Gak Attack
22 Feb 2011, 22:09
Isn't there a thing on these boards that there is a Tassie player limit in the Aus team?
That will hurt his chances. Hard to argue on bowling form he doesn't deserve a gig. His best chance may be a injury to Johnson as the batting might get him over the line.
Drummond
22 Feb 2011, 23:08
he's on 91* at stumps too :D
What a freaking game by big Butsy! :thumbsu:
Hoping he can secure his 3rd ton tomorrow.
bigpapagman
23 Feb 2011, 07:30
I have a massive fan since the final a few years ago. Get him in there!!!!!!
Looked the goods a few years ago but had some injuries and poor form over the last couple. This year has been the return to form. Bolwing has probably gone past his batting going on this years form. Exciting all rounder.
Only issue is i think he is more a medium-fast bowler (120-130kmh) but i could be wrong. These players usually get found out in test level (McKay from Victoria for example) and selectors prefer quicker bowlers.
aussie1st
23 Feb 2011, 09:11
Even George struggled in the Aus A game.
PTizzle
23 Feb 2011, 09:28
he's on 91* at stumps too :D
Don't forget the handy 4 wickets he took in the bowling as well :).
ghost65
23 Feb 2011, 11:36
I'd have him replace steve smith.
Drummond
23 Feb 2011, 11:51
Out for 99.
Freaking heck. :mad:
krisholio14
26 Feb 2011, 04:45
I rate him. He's still relatively young, and after throwing off consistency and fitness issues he's had a ripping summer.
If he can improve on that in 11-12 he's going to be right up there.
Tyberious Funk
27 Feb 2011, 11:17
His record is excellent. True, he's having a good season, but it's not like it is a fluke. He averages 24 with the ball for his career.
But I doubt he'll get a chance. His speed is regularly around the 120s... which is just too slow for Test match cricket. It just gives batsmen a split second more time to make their shots. At domestic level, where standards are generally lower, you can get away with that. But at test level, the top flight batsmen will just carve you up.
Drummond
4 Mar 2011, 15:30
Current match figures against NSW: 5/37
Tazwegian
4 Mar 2011, 21:12
His record is excellent. True, he's having a good season, but it's not like it is a fluke. He averages 24 with the ball for his career.
But I doubt he'll get a chance. His speed is regularly around the 120s... which is just too slow for Test match cricket. It just gives batsmen a split second more time to make their shots. At domestic level, where standards are generally lower, you can get away with that. But at test level, the top flight batsmen will just carve you up.
McGrath was in the low 130s, I don't reckon Butterworth is much slower. He also gets good batsmen out consistently. I reckon he would be more than worth a punt at test cricket.
Bucking Beads
4 Mar 2011, 22:39
Pace is over-rated, if he puts the ball in the right spot he will take wickets regardless of the level of cricket he is playing. I think he surely deserves a look after the summer he has had. Maybe give him a few ODI's to see how he goes stepping up
Black Thunder
5 Mar 2011, 10:48
i reckon butterworth is quick enough. he gets bounce cause of his height.
watch mohammad asif bowl. you rarely see him get much above 130 and maxes out at about 135. but he takes shitloads of wickets (Although he won't be for 5 years now)
granted it does make it tougher if you don't bowl quick enough but i don't think it would be an issue for butterworth. copeland may have the problem where he isn't quite quick enough at the next level, but he too must be verging very close to a spot on the sri lankan tour just from sheer weight of wickets and little runs conceeded. we don't have many bowlers who can swing the ball, bowl consistently, don't bowl many bad balls, get a bit of bounce, and are in wicket taking form... butterworth and copeland both tix those five very important boxes.
what was butterworth bowling in the one day final in relation to hilfenhaus?? i always thought he was a bit slower than hilf. but because it seems the speed guns on the foxtel games are slower than on the nine games (this is purely anecdotal and could be wrong) it's hard to get a true indication unless you have a direct comparison.... say for instance butterworth is maxing around 130km/h for tassie, but in the same game hilf is maxing about 135km/h, well then you can work it out because during the ashes ashes hilf was usually maxing about 142-3km/h from memory... but i didn't see the one day final so have no idea myself, of course this theory could be completely wrong anyway.
and i agree bucking beads, pace just isn't as important as it once was. because of flat decks and batsmen protection you can't blast batsmen out like you once could. generally now the faster you bowl the quicker it goes to the boundary. dale steyn has dropped has pace a fraction and is now swinging the ball even more and is probably making headway to being one of the best fast bowlers the game has seen. once again on his pace there is more anecdotal evidence about the inconsistency of speed guns because during the india series he was clocking high 130's with occasional ball in the 140's. having watched our guys earlier in the day then him at night there is no way he was bowling slower than all our quick bowlers....
aussie1st
5 Mar 2011, 12:34
Yes pace isn't the be all end all but there is a minimum threshold where even if you are putting it in the same place you will struggle at the top level because the batsmen have that extra fraction of time. That mark is pretty much 130km/h, you just have to see how poor Bollinger went when he dipped under that mark. Asif was around the 130s which made it perfect. If Butterworth and Copeland can do likewise then there is no reason why they can't be a success. If they are around McDonald pace then you will most likely see them replicate what he did. I agree at least one of them should be given a go in the near future but can't see the selectors taking that plunge.
Glinn Mgraw
5 Mar 2011, 15:13
I'd like to see what he could do in English conditions.
Drummond
19 Mar 2011, 19:38
Took 2 wickets in the first dig, and at stumps on day 3 he's on 74*. Gun.
Took 2 wickets in the first dig, and at stumps on day 3 he's on 74*. Gun.
Sheffield Shield final specialist ;)
Selective Retention
19 Mar 2011, 20:49
So Drummond any thoughts on Faulkner? ;)
Black Thunder
22 Mar 2011, 11:38
butterworth and fualkner are absolute guns.
butterworth will definately tour sri lanka... well he should anyway. pace won't be an issue. he's not quick, but he's only a little bit slower than hilfenhaus but he has a hell of a lot more control than Ben.
copeland's the other one. his pace at test level is a definate concern, and you certainly couldn't play copeland and butterworth in the same test team.
Drummond
16 Nov 2011, 20:10
Seriously, why doesn't this bloke have an Australian contract, and why isn't he over in South Africa right now?
Bowling average of 24, batting average of 27. Just turned 28, been a consistent performer for years, in his prime, give him a go.
Hellgood
16 Nov 2011, 21:42
Probably deserves a shot, but selectors would point to his batting average and say he "is too slow". Would like to see him and Copeland bowling, we need that kind of pressure on the other teams batsmen to score runs. I am not sure that he is going to be capable of taking wickets at test level but sure as hell he deserves the chance to find out.
Tassieboy
17 Nov 2011, 05:27
He would lengthen our shitty batting line up too
The Convert
17 Nov 2011, 08:32
Not quite good enough in either batting or bowling. Get the bowling average down to 25 and batting up to 35 and he becomes a replacement for Shane Watson but cannot have both in the same team and have any balance
Hellgood
17 Nov 2011, 08:51
Not quite good enough in either batting or bowling. Get the bowling average down to 25 and batting up to 35 and he becomes a replacement for Shane Watson but cannot have both in the same team and have any balance
To be fair to him, I think if you looked at his stats over the last two or three years he would be achieving that. He is a much improved cricketer who debuted fairly young.
Disco_Roach
17 Nov 2011, 12:52
Since the start of last season -
577 runs @ 32.05
57 Wickets @ 18.91
Huge numbers
deledio7
17 Nov 2011, 13:04
Always liked him but I still think he needs to develop consistency. Hopefully he can achieve this in 2011/12.
Drummond
17 Nov 2011, 16:59
Always liked him but I still think he needs to develop consistency. Hopefully he can achieve this in 2011/12.
Ummm how much more consistency can he show?
Luke Butterworth won the Sheffield shield last year. It should be winning state Luke Butterworth really.
The reason he's not getting a gig is the same reason David Hussey missed the cut. Both early years were dogged by good year, below par year, good year, below par year.
When a player does this early in a career they need to show a demonstrated period of time over a couple of seasons before that can be erased.
One thing I will say though. Butterworth is not that slow with the ball, that's a myth on a par with most other swing bowlers who have played for this country since the 1980s.
krisholio14
18 Nov 2011, 08:27
The problem for Butterworth is that he apparently lacks the 'explosiveness' needed to be an international all rounder in this country.
He'd be getting a game for pretty much everyone else with the numbers he puts up.
Black Thunder
18 Nov 2011, 11:25
Probably deserves a shot, but selectors would point to his batting average and say he "is too slow". Would like to see him and Copeland bowling, we need that kind of pressure on the other teams batsmen to score runs. I am not sure that he is going to be capable of taking wickets at test level but sure as hell he deserves the chance to find out.
i don't think a test team could contain both butterworth and copeland... even copeland alone still has question marks on his pace.
butterworth alone is quick enough, just...
The reason he's not getting a gig is the same reason David Hussey missed the cut. Both early years were dogged by good year, below par year, good year, below par year.
When a player does this early in a career they need to show a demonstrated period of time over a couple of seasons before that can be erased.
this is true.
michael klinger copped the same fate, though his victorian career wasn't dogged by good year, bad year... just shit year, shit year, shit year... had he never played first class cricket before his 08/09 breakout year, he'd have been in the test team before the end of the 09/10 season.
One thing I will say though. Butterworth is not that slow with the ball, that's a myth on a par with most other swing bowlers who have played for this country since the 1980s.
butterworth isn't slow, but he isn't quick. he's quicker than copeland, and a bit slower than hilfenhaus but he doesn't have an effort ball that hilfenhaus has which allows hilf to sneak into the 140's on occasions.
i like how he can nip the ball around the deck. i've always been more of a fan of cut than swing because the path of the ball is less predictable... but it can be very dependant on the wicket sometimes and if there's nothing in the deck then you just become a straight up and down bowler.
as said above a test bowling line up with both copeland and butterworth would be cannon fodder. but there is certainly a spot for one in the line up.
butterworth is extremely unlucky not to have been picked in that australia A team. at 28 he's harldy past it either.
Gak Attack
18 Nov 2011, 15:51
Worth noting too at 28 he doesn't have the usual wear and tear of a 28 year old fast bowler given that hes missed some time for various reasons over his career. I was amazed that Hilfenhaus(even though hes having a good year) got a gig over Butterworth and Faulkner. With Watson injury concerns I would think it would be good having another all rounder getting some Aus A experience, even though Butterworth is a bowling all rounder he is still a lot better batsman than Johnson for example.