View Full Version : Eagles v Saints GBU
<Woosha is currently on the run, with the police wanting to speak to him in connection to several counts of unlawful wounding on various players at half time. Hopefully, he’ll be exonerated (provocation!) in time for the Book of Woosha next week>
The Good
Lets get this over with. Andrew McDougall. Michael Braun. Dean Cox. Rowan Jones. Ben Cousins. Daniel Chick. David Wirrpunda. Dean Cox. Brent Staker. David Haynes
The above 8 players were members of the very exclusive ‘we had a go’ club this week. And of the above, only Chick, McDougall and Braun can lay claim to anything resembling a 4 quarter effort. Cousins led from the front after half time, and Wirrpunda rebounded well but after that you’ll really struggle to find any bright spots.
After half time, we came out and actually looked like a team trying to win a game. The critical phase was late in the third quarter, where, but for a few bounces and some errant decisions, we might have gone into the final change down by 14. After the momentum swung back, we simply folded.
About the only other positive out of this game was another impressive outing from Staker. The second gamer showed heart all day and strung together some decent possessions, particularly in the second half. It says a lot about the character of young Buffy that he was prepared to have a go when so many older heads weren’t.
The Bad
Discussion about the actual outcome of the game can be found under ‘Ugly’ oddly enough, so this will be confined to the player list itself.
We were utterly pantsed out of the centre from the first siren. The biggest weakness of our midfield- the tendency to expect perfect use from the ruckman came through, and it simply didn’t look as though we had too many people prepared to get their hands dirty and go look for the ball. Kerr and Judd played perhaps their worst games ever in an Eagles guernsey. Hunter was taken to the cleaners by Reiwoldt, and Banfield managed to suck where ever he played.
Chipper Adkins did absolutely nothing when put on the field, and you would have to question the wisdom of giving him another game anytime soon. The effort he put in was symptomatic of all of the fringe dwellers, really. In the absence of a lot of the first tier players, there were opportunities for people to carve out a place in the team. Except for perhaps Staker, none of these guys took their opportunities. The reality is that people like Adkins, Carroll and, much as it pains me to say this, Read, have had ample chances to make their mark this year and they simply haven’t. Time for Selwood, Chambers, Lynch to get a bite at the apple, I reckon.
With St Kilda winning it out of the centre consistently the result was never in doubt. The pressure that was applied made our sub-standard defense fold like a wet newspaper. Glass tried hard on Gehrig, but was out-thought, out-muscled and out-played at every turn. Collica and Wirrpunda gave respectable efforts, although the latter needs to realize that there is a time to run off your man and a time to play tight. Banfield was beaten by all comers, Carroll was utterly insipid. I echo the thoughts of EKA on this one, Trent is simply too poor a player to be wearing a West Coast Eagles jumper- it’s embarrassing to see him out there- any game where he is selected is a game where a promising youngster has been denied a chance to develop at AFL level.
Our forward line suffered without delivery. Matera failed to make an impact, ditto Jakovich, whilst Rowan Jones, despite his otherwise okay game, should be instructed to handpass/throw/headbutt the ball to a teammate rather than trying to snap a goal across his body, because when he does the latter he NEVER EVER EVER EVER does anything other than kick it out on the full.
All things considered, this game really told the story of how to beat the West Coast Eagles- shut down our midfield, and you’ll win comfortably.
The Ugly
(takes a deep breath.)
I suppose it’s important to have a sense of perspective, and be fair about this. Sometimes teams have downers, and given how well the Saints played, it was good to see our undermanned team try and mount a comeback.
To be fair- no, actually, screw being fair or having a sense of perspective. That was the most utterly insipid effort by West Coast in living memory. I'm looking back and remembering past debacles, but the reality is that I don't think we’ve ever played that bad under Worsfold. Against Port Adelaide a few weeks ago, at least there was some consolation in knowing we were being done by a top side. This time we, a supposed contender, went up against a St Kilda side with a useless coach, a reputation for mental and physical weakness, and some gaping holes in their team, and we were completely humiliated. There simply aren't any excuses- we got totally pantsed because we didn’t look at all interested in the game at hand. Had we lost by 100 points, the sting wouldn’t be any greater than that which I’m feeling now. By any standards, what we saw out there today was not acceptable. Without overreacting, we’re now at crisis point. If we want to have any serious influence on the way events unfold in September, this debacle has to be the spur that makes us get serious.
Just when a ****ty day couldn’t get much ****tier, Wirrpunda went down with what looked to be a serious knee injury, meaning we now have lost 4 of our best 5 players to injury in the lead up to the finals. All is pretty dark at the moment, and the entire team needs to do some soul searching this week if we are going to avert a catastrophic loss to the Crows next week.
I agree with about 95% of that Mead, and I have already started to eliminate any memories of that game by consuming vast quantities of alcohol - so excuise the spelling mistakes and sluuring of words...I am looking forward to the good book this week - god knows I could use a laugh after sitting through that inept effort.:D
I thought Glass was ok today. Gehrig did miss a few, but Glass beat him one on one quite a few times and also had some unlcuky breaks, bounce of ball - so he wasnt our best, but certainly wasnt our worst as he definitely tried out there. Seems like the type of player that needs confidence and maybe ok in the future - I guess time will tell. Some of the moer senior guys were quite awful - re Jako, Banners, and Fido.
Originally posted by pauljam
I agree with about 95% of that Mead, and I have already started to eliminate any memories of that game by consuming vast quantities of alcohol - so excuise the spelling mistakes and sluuring of words...I am looking forward to the good book this week - god knows I could use a laugh after sitting through that inept effort.:D
Some things you just can't joke about- at least not just yet.
I don't have any time left for Glass. To be honest, if I had to choose between Glass and Carroll, I'd be inclined to take Carroll. I look at it this way; Glass plays an occasional game that you'd rate a 9/10, but the rest of the time he'd be lucky to make 2/10. When an opponent gets on top, he gets thrashed, not just beaten, thrashed (Tredrea, Rawlings, Gehrig FFS, even Richo). Carroll on the other hand, probably gets a 4/10 every single week. Never wins, but his opponent never takes us apart either.
The problem is that I don't think Glass's decision making is good enough to let him play further up the ground where his abilities might be better suited (I did not rate his second half against the Hawks as he made me cringe whenever he got the ball). If we had any choice I'd seriously look at offloading Glass during the trade period, but we need to find an alternative or two right now.
I thought taht was a good call Mead. I will defend Read though, despite his performance, players tend to have poor comeback seasons after reconstructions. I think we will find that Read and Morrisson are in our top ten players next year.
As for Glass, I've said before that he is not a KPP and I'm sure he would be excellent in Blueys old position. He has a lot of skill unlike Carroll who has a lot of energy and a fair bit of bulk but skill levels well below AFL level. Fact is that without Milli we're a key player short.
Oh! I;d add Collica to the 8
eagleskickass
3 Aug 2003, 20:13
Originally posted by Mr Q
I don't have any time left for Glass. To be honest, if I had to choose between Glass and Carroll, I'd be inclined to take Carroll. I look at it this way; Glass plays an occasional game that you'd rate a 9/10, but the rest of the time he'd be lucky to make 2/10. When an opponent gets on top, he gets thrashed, not just beaten, thrashed (Tredrea, Rawlings, Gehrig FFS, even Richo). Carroll on the other hand, probably gets a 4/10 every single week. Never wins, but his opponent never takes us apart either.
The problem is that I don't think Glass's decision making is good enough to let him play further up the ground where his abilities might be better suited (I did not rate his second half against the Hawks as he made me cringe whenever he got the ball). If we had any choice I'd seriously look at offloading Glass during the trade period, but we need to find an alternative or two right now.
the counter side to that is Carroll wont ever get any better than 4/10 (and any defender who gets 4/10 consistently should be dropped anyway! surely theres someone who can do better than 4/10!) where as Glass MAY be able to lift above to 9/10 occasionally and 5/10 otherwise. If i was an opposition side looking for a trade id see more potential in Glass than Carroll. To be perfectly honest i think we can do better than BOTH of them, trade Glass to a side where he may turn the door and become a good player and delist carroll, no team in their right mind would take him. But yes, im sure we can do better than both, we dont HAVE to play one or the other, change both IMO.
Kenny_01
3 Aug 2003, 20:54
I thought both Glass and Carroll weren't too bad. They did make a couple of glaring errors but overall, I thought they did OK.
McDougall looked pretty promising as well, he will be a very good player. Staker looks like a likely sort as well.
And is it just me or has Kerr gone backwards this season? I have been watching him closely this year and he hasn't done much to impress. He has played a few good games (against the Saints, Sydney and Essendon for example), but he just doesn't seem to get in and under and attack the ball anywhere near as much as he used to. And last week, he was doing blind handballs which caused turnovers as well as little fancy kicks which turned the ball over as well. I was really impressed with him in his first 2 seasons but I don't he has had a very good year at all this year.
Au_Blue#24
3 Aug 2003, 21:00
I actually thought Caroll did ok today. It was the midfield that let us down, and the decision to kick to matera as a leading forward.
I do however agree that was the worst performance tjis year.
I hope that wirra is ok or were really in pain.
When does gardy come back ??
Originally posted by Kenny_01
And is it just me or has Kerr gone backwards this season? I have been watching him closely this year and he hasn't done much to impress. He has played a few good games (against the Saints, Sydney and Essendon for example), but he just doesn't seem to get in and under and attack the ball anywhere near as much as he used to. And last week, he was doing blind handballs which caused turnovers as well as little fancy kicks which turned the ball over as well. I was really impressed with him in his first 2 seasons but I don't he has had a very good year at all this year.
I tend to agree, he was a brilliant in and under player but tends to want to rove this season.
In fact I was watching a game from 4 or 5 seasons ago and Braun was sensational as an in and under player but he, now, is only a shell of the player he was then.
Originally posted by eagleskickass
the counter side to that is Carroll wont ever get any better than 4/10 (and any defender who gets 4/10 consistently should be dropped anyway! surely theres someone who can do better than 4/10!) where as Glass MAY be able to lift above to 9/10 occasionally and 5/10 otherwise. If i was an opposition side looking for a trade id see more potential in Glass than Carroll. To be perfectly honest i think we can do better than BOTH of them, trade Glass to a side where he may turn the door and become a good player and delist carroll, no team in their right mind would take him. But yes, im sure we can do better than both, we dont HAVE to play one or the other, change both IMO.
I said "if I had to choose between them", and I don't think Glass ever plays a 5/10 - its either 9/10 rarely or 1/10. To be fair as well I think Carroll does play better than 4/10 quite often, I was being a bit harsh on him IMO.
Neither of them are KPPs and both play their best running from half back. When that happens I'd rather have Carroll, as I don't think Glass has the mental capacity to play that position, for all he has the better skills. Carroll doesn't have the skills, but he doesn't bugger it up anywhere near as often when he has the ball.
Of course if we trade Glass he'll turn into a class defender overnight. Unless of course we trade him to Freo, then he'll become an even bigger hack.
Black Thunder
3 Aug 2003, 22:06
There was very little good from that one - Even the comeback was good for a little while, then we semeingly went "oo well, we've done enough to show that we put up some sought of fight" then dropped off and ended up losing by more than we were originally behind.
Thrawn666
3 Aug 2003, 22:52
Originally posted by Kenny_01
And is it just me or has Kerr gone backwards this season? I have been watching him closely this year and he hasn't done much to impress. He has played a few good games (against the Saints, Sydney and Essendon for example), but he just doesn't seem to get in and under and attack the ball anywhere near as much as he used to. And last week, he was doing blind handballs which caused turnovers as well as little fancy kicks which turned the ball over as well. I was really impressed with him in his first 2 seasons but I don't he has had a very good year at all this year.
Kerr has had a poor season in general. Nothing like his first two seasons. He did carry injury through the first half of the season, but now he hasnt had the impact or hardness we need him to deliver.
Thrawn666
3 Aug 2003, 22:55
Originally posted by Frodo
I tend to agree, he was a brilliant in and under player but tends to want to rove this season.
In fact I was watching a game from 4 or 5 seasons ago and Braun was sensational as an in and under player but he, now, is only a shell of the player he was then.
I agree, he was also a very good hard running player too. I was watching a game from about the same vintage and couldnt get over how much better Braun used to be.
good - my memory of the game is fading.
bad - Getting out-coached by Cornflakes and co. We need some tactical people in the box. Wiley is the doorman, Gepp is just an
official with too much power, Suma? We're getiing coached by the man who used to continually lead to the pockets. Micale... how soon can we get Mckenna back.
ugly - no-one's accusing us of using steroids anymore... IE: We are physically weak... especially round midfield. Braun, Kerr, Read, Adkins are feather-dusters. How long did it take for us to put Chick into midfield. too fkn long... even Green, Banfield, Hunter would have been better options. Some times you just gotta stand strong there... skill doesn't mean much if you can't stay on your feet.
daddy_4_eyes
4 Aug 2003, 00:47
Originally posted by drexel
ugly - no-one's accusing us of using steroids anymore... IE: We are physically weak... especially round midfield. Braun, Kerr, Read, Adkins are feather-dusters.
Funnily enough, a Saints supporter was yelling similar things. Asking where our Woosha's and our McKenna's are.
I'd like to know what happened to our 'stars'? Where were Kerr, Judd and Cousins? What was Wirrpunda doing when Clarke was running riot? When Braun and Jones are our best midfielders on the day, you know something is wrong.
Originally posted by drexel
Suma? We're getiing coached by the man who used to continually lead to the pockets.
Yeah, but Suma was always more likely to kick a goal wheeling on to his wrong foot* 50m out on the boundary line than he ever was taking a set shot 35m out right in front.
When Suma was 35m out right in front he seemed to have two or maybe more wrong feet. Still kicked 111 in a season.
larrikin
4 Aug 2003, 01:48
Originally posted by Mead
Lets get this over with. Andrew McDougall. Michael Braun. Dean Cox. Rowan Jones. Ben Cousins. Daniel Chick. David Wirrpunda. Dean Cox. Brent Staker. David Haynes
I would've thought you could add Kasey Green to that group.
Deepthroat
4 Aug 2003, 09:52
Originally posted by Au_Blue#24
I actually thought Caroll did ok today. It was the midfield that let us down, and the decision to kick to matera as a leading forward.
I do however agree that was the worst performance tjis year.
I hope that wirra is ok or were really in pain.
When does gardy come back ??
ARE YOU FOR REAL?
Carroll has got to be the slowest thinker to ever pull on the blue and gold.
He goes for a fly 15 metres out from the St Kilda goal when unchallenged, spills the ball and has a goal kicked against.
He takes the ball on the wing, waits to be tackled and then runs over the line.
He often believes he has a magic ability to bust through opposition tacklers before he is pinned down and punished for holding the ball.
As I've said before, someone hand him the AFL manual, the idiot doesn't understand the rules. I believe he thinks he is playing another sport other than AFL.
How long do the others have to carry him? He never steps up to the mark when those around him are having a bad day (as he should have yesterday).
Thrawn666
4 Aug 2003, 10:55
Originally posted by Deepthroat
He often believes he has a magic ability to bust through opposition tacklers before he is pinned down and punished for holding the ball.
Hahahah!
Thats the funniest one :D
"Magic ability"
Theyre all true though
Voice of Reason
4 Aug 2003, 13:29
Originally posted by drexel
Micale... how soon can we get Mckenna back.
Micale has an outstanding coaching record - 5 WAFL GFs in a row with 3 different teams.
Bluey ain't coming back soon anyway after "the incident" and yesterday was otherwise engaged coaching Claremont to a home loss against the might of.... South Fremantle.
It was just one of those days and contrary to everyone else, I don't blame the coaching staff. Our players were terrible all over the ground and only poor kicking from Saints kept us under 100 pts margin. Our best players were injured (playing or not). We are a young side that has performed well this year and we looked terribly tired yesterday.
eagleskickass
4 Aug 2003, 13:42
im sorry but i must have missed something, "the incident"?
eaglechicka
4 Aug 2003, 14:40
Cousins captain effort after half time really shows y he is captain.
What the hell was the umpire waiting for when that stkilda player went down??? He wasnt calling a stretcher and there was no blood so i dont see the hold up. Carroll is from fremantle thats where he should of stayed. Glass is just not strong enough to take on neone.
Poor wirra the only backman i fully trust with the ball (although on occasion he makes vital errors) injured yesterday that has to be the worst part about it. Even worst then getting beaten by stkilda of all teams.
Originally posted by eagleskickass
im sorry but i must have missed something, "the incident"?
Allegedly he did a 'Carey'. There were lots of rumours of who it was with but it never really came out...
Originally posted by Deepthroat
ARE YOU FOR REAL?
Carroll has got to be the slowest thinker to ever pull on the blue and gold.
He goes for a fly 15 metres out from the St Kilda goal when unchallenged, spills the ball and has a goal kicked against.
He takes the ball on the wing, waits to be tackled and then runs over the line.
He often believes he has a magic ability to bust through opposition tacklers before he is pinned down and punished for holding the ball.
As I've said before, someone hand him the AFL manual, the idiot doesn't understand the rules. I believe he thinks he is playing another sport other than AFL.
How long do the others have to carry him? He never steps up to the mark when those around him are having a bad day (as he should have yesterday).
How quickly we forget - does the name Dizzy O'Connell ring a bell!!!!:D :D
Seriously we have had worse hacks in the Eagles line ups than Carroll. That holding the ball decision against him yesterday was utter CR&P and there were 3-4 others (to both sides) that should have been paid before that one.
I dont think Carroll is up to AFL standard, as we have seen quite a few times this year but in his defence he TRIES. Makes a lot of mistakes, does a few good things but is just filling the gaps until we get another key defender put their hand up. He is often dropped because he isnt good enough, but is recalled because there isnt anyone else, and he must do something right at training?
I thought Carroll actually did have a go yesterday (certainly wasnt our worst) - I could be wrong but I'll never know because there is NO WAY IN HELL I am watching the tape of that game again :D
Maybe we should be more critical of guys like Jako and Banners who are 200+ game veterans! These are the guys that we need to rely on to stand up in tough games - not guys like Carroll who are 50-60 game players with limited skills.
Overall it was an extremely disappointing effort all round. Remember that the defence (although obviously pretty poor) was under a lot of pressure because of the COMPLETE ABSENCE of any midfield pressure on the Saints runners. Let an AFL player have time to run free and use the ball and most of them will punish you, regardless of who is the defender.
As I said in another thread I'd like to see Lynch in for Carroll this week as he gives us more options.
Voice of Reason
4 Aug 2003, 15:01
Originally posted by Sera
but it never really came out...
I heard it came right out!:D
Deepthroat
4 Aug 2003, 15:21
Originally posted by Sera
Allegedly he did a 'Carey'. There were lots of rumours of who it was with but it never really came out...
Geez that Kelli Stevens gets around.
I have three words for you all.....
NOT HAPPY JAN!