View Full Version : What to do with Jako.
This is an awkward one because Jako is a legend. Woosha seems to be trying to find a place for him and it's not working. Here's why IMO :-
Defence.......too slow.
CHF........does okay but McDougall is proving to be a better option by a long way, and don't forget Gaspar.
FF....big mistake by Woosha, in my opinion, changing the structure and kicking it high into the 50 looking for Jako to packj mark hasn't a hope. Today Haynes started on the wing. It was only in the third quarter that Haynes went to FF and we started to look a half decent side. (But Staker ended up on the wing which ISNT his position but IS Callum Chambers :mad: )
So, is there a position in thae side for Jako? If so where?
Thrawn666
3 Aug 2003, 20:10
I think the best place for Jako is in rotation through CHF with McDougall. Have McDougall start there and then put him into the ruck on the odd occasion or bring him to the bench. Jako can go to CHF when he's moved.
I think its a good way to rotate the two, one a young up and comer, the other a veteran who still provides on a regular basis. Jako was down today, but he was firing big-time against the Hawks last week, especially in the first quarter. There will be days where McDougall isnt at his best, days , like today, where Jako isnt. Its just a matter of finding the balance.
eagleskickass
3 Aug 2003, 20:17
I spose also having the rotation enables us to possibly, when needed, throw McDougall either down back or to the Forward Pocket, letting Haynes be the leading target and McDougal the marking target on the Square etc. Really though id prefer to let McDougall be out it a position and just play that rather than being thrown everywhere, but Rotating with Jako at CHF could be beneficial for both players.
Same thing next season? Or do we give Doogs or Gaspar the permanent job at CHF?
eagleskickass
3 Aug 2003, 20:30
Originally posted by Frodo
Same thing next season? Or do we give Doogs or Gaspar the permanent job at CHF?
Thats a very difficult question.
In regards to Gaspar i think we need to build the team as if he ISNT going to be a part IE plan for him not getting over injuries. This way if he doesnt get up we still have the players, but if he does if hes good enough hell get back anyway. Cant afford to pin our hopes on him when he cant prove he will stay fit. McDougall has stayed fir for a fair while now so its fair enough to build the side around him as a KPP and Staker is showing signs of that ability also.
I tend to think we need to map out where we're going and what it needs to get there. There are young players around line Staker, Selwood, Humm, Nicoski, Beek, Johnson, Rudeforth, Seaby that are going to have to be developed or we lose them. The gap between AFL and WAFL is too big to expect them to develop in WAFL teams. But to keep them means we have to delist other players. Sometimes tough choices have to be made.
Au_Blue#24
3 Aug 2003, 21:05
As much as Jak's done for our club - we must go forward with doogs and gaspar to the exlusion of Jak.
Rough_Edges
3 Aug 2003, 21:18
Jako (as you call him) should have went on Fraser Gerig(kicked 4:5).
I think after He destroyed who he was playing on (???) the move should have came as Gerig is very slow and so is Jako.
But thats about the only foward he could play on. I would just play him as another tall option in the Foward line!
Black Thunder
3 Aug 2003, 21:54
I reckon the best spot for him is rotating through CHF, FF and a bit of time down back when there is a match up for him....
Thrawn666
3 Aug 2003, 22:46
Originally posted by GoSainters10
Jako (as you call him) should have went on Fraser Gerig(kicked 4:5).
I think after He destroyed who he was playing on (???) the move should have came as Gerig is very slow and so is Jako.
But thats about the only foward he could play on. I would just play him as another tall option in the Foward line!
Gehrig isnt that slow.
Sure has lost the thoroughbred pace he used to have, but he would have led Jako to the ball time and time again. Woosha knows this and hence the move wasnt made.
Rough_Edges
3 Aug 2003, 23:41
I know GErig isn't that Slow but he isn't as quick as the likes of Lloyd and Neitz tha Riewolts job.
But I think Jako shoul have shut him down because he could of ran off him.
Kenny_01
4 Aug 2003, 00:10
Gehrig is reasonably quick in a straight line but when he has to change direction, he is slow.
Deepthroat
4 Aug 2003, 09:35
I think yesterday Jacko should have been played as a loose 'floater' across CHB. He is still a fantastic reader of the play and I believe he would have stopped many St Kilda goals.
He gets exposed every now and then, but can still give us a lift. His leadership is still required.
Originally posted by Deepthroat
I think yesterday Jacko should have been played as a loose 'floater' across CHB. He is still a fantastic reader of the play and I believe he would have stopped many St Kilda goals.
Not a bad call because he rebounds very well too
Voice of Reason
4 Aug 2003, 13:15
Originally posted by Frodo
Same thing next season? Or do we give Doogs or Gaspar the permanent job at CHF?
Tough one.
He's probably got one more season in him, but I think he's now a pinchhitter for various positions, rather than commanding one position like he used to at CHB. Sometimes he'll match up on a forward, sometimes play CHF. The problem with him up forward is that he's a surprisingly poor mark for such a strong man and not a reliable kick.
But I know where you're going - we must not inhibit the growth of players like Doogs, Staker or (if fit) Gaspar. They have to be given a run where we think they can make it in the AFL.
Streaker
4 Aug 2003, 16:39
Until we develop a CHF, I think we should rotate Jako with whoever we go with. Gaspar or Staker would ideally fill the spot but until Staker develops a bit more or Gaspar has an injury free run we need to have an option who we can rely on.
Originally posted by Deepthroat
I think yesterday Jacko should have been played as a loose 'floater' across CHB. He is still a fantastic reader of the play and I believe he would have stopped many St Kilda goals.
I like that idea. Its definately food for thought.
Goldenblue
5 Aug 2003, 11:31
Maybe I was right at the beginning of the season when I suggested Jak should think about retirement.
His pace has slowed, he is not the player he was once, I think we don't need him for the experience.
I think he should bow out before it becomes an embarrassment to him. The guy is a legend and should be remembered as one of the greats, but his time has come.
Originally posted by Goldenblue
Maybe I was right at the beginning of the season when I suggested Jak should think about retirement.
His pace has slowed, he is not the player he was once, I think we don't need him for the experience.
I think he should bow out before it becomes an embarrassment to him. The guy is a legend and should be remembered as one of the greats, but his time has come.
I dont agree. I think he can still contribute to the team. He's still got alot to give us!! One things for sure though, he'll do the right thing by the club. I wouldnt give up on Jako just yet!
serious thought must go into his future. he can't play down back anymore and gasper would still have to be our first choice at CHF.
i would think he would be safe this year but 2004 is a different question. the one big plus in his favour is his experience on the field and his leadership skills. with so many younger guys in our team we lack players that have played finals football which is something that Jako definatly doesn't lack.
Goldenblue
5 Aug 2003, 12:26
Originally posted by carlyp
I dont agree. I think he can still contribute to the team. He's still got alot to give us!! One things for sure though, he'll do the right thing by the club. I wouldnt give up on Jako just yet!
Maybe he just comes on and off the bench, but I don't see a permanent spot for him on the ground Carlz.
Originally posted by Goldenblue
I think he should bow out before it becomes an embarrassment to him. The guy is a legend and should be remembered as one of the greats, but his time has come.
He has been a great player, but he must know when to go. From my view on the hill, I reckon it might be best to walk away gracefully and let some youngsters get more game time. Really if he leaves it too long he will become a major problem for Woosha and he will be forced back to the WAFL Bullies, would you like to see that?.
Goldenblue has the hammer and is hitting the nail on the head, painful as it may be to some supporters.
Originally posted by Goldenblue
Maybe he just comes on and off the bench, but I don't see a permanent spot for him on the ground Carlz.
I could cope with that. The club is close to winning a premiership and I just feel that jako should get a chance to revel in it.
Originally posted by masai
He has been a great player, but he must know when to go. From my view on the hill, I reckon it might be best to walk away gracefully and let some youngsters get more game time. Really if he leaves it too long he will become a major problem for Woosha and he will be forced back to the WAFL Bullies, would you like to see that?.
Goldenblue has the hammer and is hitting the nail on the head, painful as it may be to some supporters.
I know, deep down I know the time is close to his retirement but I reckon we can get one last year out of him. I honestly believe that if Jako is fit enough he can still perform on any given day.
Originally posted by masai
He has been a great player, but he must know when to go. From my view on the hill, I reckon it might be best to walk away gracefully and let some youngsters get more game time. Really if he leaves it too long he will become a major problem for Woosha and he will be forced back to the WAFL Bullies, would you like to see that?.
Goldenblue has the hammer and is hitting the nail on the head, painful as it may be to some supporters.
yeah i agree with that one.
peter matera retired at the start of this year when he possibly could have got a couple of more games this year. his retirement however has left him a true champ without the fans having to see him struggle to the point were he can't get a game.
the art of retirement is in knowing when to call it a day. you can hobble into retirement or you can go gracefully.
Right at the moment we don't have any KPPs that aren't either at the end of their careers or just too raw to hold the positions down consistantly. IMO Jako is still reasonable, albeit nowhere near the class he used to be, and until we find some we need him there to try and plug holes. I know there are players he can't cover any more, but I'd say there would be plenty of cases where his experience might work where someone else's inexperience loses out.
I like the idea of playing the youngsters on the ground, but if they are getting a bath get Jako off the bench to see what he can do. I'd think he's got another season in him (anyway isn't he contracted for 2004).
I'm reading all this, and thinking we have three young guys who could develop into seriously good CHFs in McDougall, Gaspar & Staker.
Obviously you can only have one CHF in the team. However, when they're all fit (I'm talking in a year or two here) you'd think that those three guys will all play.
Where do you see them slotting in? To me, both McDougall & Gaspar are suited perfectly to CHF. McDougall would probably get my nod as he is a bit more mobile, but Gaspar is a strong pack-mark (at this stage, anyway).
On the other hand you have Staker who is mobile, tall (though not as tall as the other two) and looks to have the smarts about him that you absolutely must have to play CHF.
Staker is about the only one of the three who you could put on a flank and not waste him. McDougall & Gaspar are both KPPs. One goes to CHF, where does the other go?
Admittedly it's a nice problem to have!
The things is if he plays next year then it will become a Mick Martyn-type scenario about him getting to 300 the following year. I would love him to get to 300, but not at the expense of team development. Still, if he was prepared to spend some time in the WAFL then he would be good for Depth and we won't be losing anything because he will be on the veterans list.
Its really up to Jako.
I would say that its very easy to have this sort of discussion directly after Jako has had such a poor game- he's been a pretty solid contributor at CHF this year, and is not by any stretch of the imagination a liability to the team.
Having said that, its pretty clear that soon he'll be wondering where his minutes will be coming from- McDougall's continued development means that it is almost getting to the point where we are cheating ourselves by giving anyone else significant minutes at CHF. At the other end of the ground, Jako is not really anything more than a pinch hit CHB for the odd big, strong, and not too quick opponent.
If he plays on next year, he's going to be a 'Plan B' tall off the bench, maybe getting 10-20 minutes a game, and probably not playing every game of the year depending on injuries to other talls etc. Provided he knows what he's getting himself into, if he's prepared to fulfil that sort of role, good for him.
Personally, I want to see him go out at as a champ, not an aging Mick Martyn style grunt who stay for a couple too many seasons. The best reason I can see for him staying around, both on a personal and team level, is that if this team gets into any serious finals action this year or next, Jako's experience suddenly becomes very valuable- also, as a champion who stuck with us through the long dark Judge years when many of his mates were deciding it was time to go, I would love to see him get a chance to play in a winning finals team again, maybe even the big one, before he retires.
If he retires I could understand why, if he wants to stick around he needs to let his pride take a battering, focus on reinventing himself into whatever the team wants him as, and accept that he's no longer going to be a certainty in the 22.
Originally posted by Mead
Its really up to Jako.
I would say that its very easy to have this sort of discussion directly after Jako has had such a poor game- he's been a pretty solid contributor at CHF this year, and is not by any stretch of the imagination a liability to the team.
Having said that, its pretty clear that soon he'll be wondering where his minutes will be coming from- McDougall's continued development means that it is almost getting to the point where we are cheating ourselves by giving anyone else significant minutes at CHF. At the other end of the ground, Jako is not really anything more than a pinch hit CHB for the odd big, strong, and not too quick opponent.
If he plays on next year, he's going to be a 'Plan B' tall off the bench, maybe getting 10-20 minutes a game, and probably not playing every game of the year depending on injuries to other talls etc. Provided he knows what he's getting himself into, if he's prepared to fulfil that sort of role, good for him.
Personally, I want to see him go out at as a champ, not an aging Mick Martyn style grunt who stay for a couple too many seasons. The best reason I can see for him staying around, both on a personal and team level, is that if this team gets into any serious finals action this year or next, Jako's experience suddenly becomes very valuable- also, as a champion who stuck with us through the long dark Judge years when many of his mates were deciding it was time to go, I would love to see him get a chance to play in a winning finals team again, maybe even the big one, before he retires.
If he retires I could understand why, if he wants to stick around he needs to let his pride take a battering, focus on reinventing himself into whatever the team wants him as, and accept that he's no longer going to be a certainty in the 22.
I think Jako is man enough to accept that he aint the main man down at the club anymore but I still reckon he'll stick around one more season as a pinch hitter/off the bench player. You'll see just how valuable he is come finals time, he lifts to another level in the finals and his mental toughness and experience will be invaluable!
tigerman
11 Aug 2003, 23:48
Having watched jacko for many years now, he is not a shadow of his former self.
It's almost getting to stage that Woosha has got no where left to hide him.
He does not give you a physical presence out there, which he should considering the size of him.
Siera was alot better up forward than what Jacko has been when he's been used up there.
Really you need jacko down back but he's not up to anymore.
I don't know what you reckon about McIntosh being brought back into the side and used at fullforward. His knee want stand up at fullback anymore. But I reckon you coulld get good value out of him at fullforward. He has done well there on occassios when used there. Played out of the goal square he still is quick over the 1st ten metres , and I reckon you could do alot worse than to play him at fullforward.
Turn your back on Jakovich and I'm as good as becoming a Dockers supporter.
No way you can say that about an AFL all-time great. He has 2004 to offer and then we shall see how he goes.
Either way I wouldnt mind seeing Jako back in a red and white guernsey! :D :D :D
Go bulldogs
tigerman
12 Aug 2003, 11:09
[QUOTE]Originally posted by dasler
[B]Turn your back on Jakovich and I'm as good as becoming a Dockers supporter.
No way you can say that about an AFL all-time great. He has 2004 to offer and then we shall see how he goes.
I would be very surprised if jacko is still with the eagles next season.
The only way he would stay is because he is contracted.
If this was an AFL Manager game, and there was no emotion involved at all... for the good of the team, Jakovich might have been phased out or traded at least 2 years ago.