Who will be untouchable come the trade period?

[Thrawn]

We've all speculated who might be valuable trade bait, which begs the question... who on our list is deemed as an 'untouchable' ? Pagan will want a massive chance come trading period, so expect six or more delistings. The question is who deserves to stay on the list?

Here are my untouchables:

Koutoufides
McKay
Whitnall
Fevola
Houlihan
Waite
Fisher
McCormick
Thornton
Beasy
Lappin
Sporn
Wiggins
Angwin
Norman
Davies
Campbell

Maybe:

Camporealoe

- Campo is our second best midfielder. He's played very well this year, but do we trade him for a younger midfielder in his mould while he's playing well? Or keep him to continue his form to next year and not weaken the team further by losing his effectiveness? Help me decide.

Allan

- He's better than French in the ruck and much better around the ground. If he, McKernan and French go, who will be in the ruck? Who will be a geniune ruckman? Hedge might fit into this equation. Could try our luck in the draft for a ruckman.

Livingston

- Very tough to chose. We might get a quick midfielder type from a team that needs a KP player (or perhaps a tall flanker). If not, then he'll be on the list for 2004.

The rest of the senior players will either either traded or delisted. Will probably get something from Murphy, Livingston, Beaumont and Hulme. Allan and Campo could be up too, I'm sure we'll get a good young player at the expense of Campo.

Thoughts?

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Probably a difference between who we would 'like' to retain because they have a future and who is 'untouchable'. Most players are touchable if the deal is right. At this stage the youngsters who have proven themselves and/or have that 'X' factor are untouchable along with a couple of club champions who deserve to finish their careers with us. Will expand further when time permits.

[Joel]

Too many untouchables on that list.

[EagleBlue]

Originally posted by Thrawn

Here are my untouchables:

Koutoufides
McKay
Whitnall
Fevola
Houlihan
Waite
Fisher
McCormick
Thornton
Beasy
Lappin
Sporn
Wiggins
Angwin
Norman
Davies
Campbell

Maybe:

Camporealoe



Take out Beasy, Sporn, Wiggins, Norman, Campbell out of the untouchables list. In - Camporeale

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Untouchable:

Thornton - young KPP with proven ability
Angwin - young KPP, tall, mobile with loads of potential
Fisher - young future KPP
Fevola - strength, work ethic and the only FF we have
Waite - freakish ability and athleticism. Possible once in a generation player
Koutoufides - our most skillful player and club champion. You don't sell your soul
McKay - see Kouta except he is our toughest and most consistent player

Almost untouchable:

Lappin - untouchable except for unrealistic trade, more talent than anyone we could get for him and versatility and loyalty are too good to lose.

Houlihan - versatile and only now showing real talent and consistency. One of our best half dozen or so this season.

The rest are tradeable because of lack of form or history of injury or because there is still some doubt over the heights they may reach. The deal for Whitnall or Camporeale would have to be too sweet to resist as they are important senior players and almost legends of our club.

[TheSheik]

No-one at Carlton should be classed as 'untouchable', however there are a small few who could be described as 'very unlikely to be traded'. They are :

Waite
Fisher
Thornton
Angwin

Everyone else on the list is either fair game or open to a decent offer.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Sheik, I realise we can't afford to be sentimental in our predicament but we also can't afford to alienate supporters who provide the lifeblood of the club ... memberships, by casting aside the likes of Kouta and Macca. They are untouchable.

[TheSheik]

I doubt anyone would give us a decnt offer in return for those two so I suppose they could be classed as unlikley to be traded. However, if say the Doggies offered us their priority pick plus Murphy & Darcy, then I reckon they'd be traded !! :D

[Duffman95]

Lappin must be... loyalty is a two way street

[Asgardian]

Ladies & gentlemen, am I correct in assuming that Koutoufides has a huge rear end loaded contract?

Also, am I correct in assuming that Dave Allison is still Koutoufides' manager?

If I am correct on both counts, Koutoufides is virtually untradable-

Carlton can put him on their Veterans List, every other club is denied this luxury

Carlton has already factored Koutoufides into their salary cap calculations, every other club would have to make major changes to accomodate a contract the size Koutoufides enjoys

Koutoufides loves Carlton, and the club, plus its supporters, love him, to trade this bloke would be akin to selling your soul.

In my opinion this all makes Koutoufides untradable

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Asgardian
Ladies & gentlemen, am I correct in assuming that Koutoufides has a huge rear end loaded contract?

Also, am I correct in assuming that Dave Allison is still Koutoufides' manager?

If I am correct on both counts, Koutoufides is virtually untradable-

Carlton can put him on their Veterans List, every other club is denied this luxury

Carlton has already factored Koutoufides into their salary cap calculations, every other club would have to make major changes to accomodate a contract the size Koutoufides enjoys

Koutoufides loves Carlton, and the club, plus its supporters, love him, to trade this bloke would be akin to selling your soul.

In my opinion this all makes Koutoufides untradable

Well put Asgardian. I fully agree... you've hit the nail right on the head with that comment. Koutoufides is the face of Carlton. He attracts more people to the game because he's exciting to watch, and the majority of Carlton supporting kids love him - he's their idol. He's an untouchable, not just because he's important off-field, but he's our best player this year and will probably win the B & F.

[P76]

What about Lance? A lot of my s**t club supporting friends keep asking me what I would do if they traded Lance, trying to get me to blow my top.

But the more I think about it, the more I think I could handle it.

Thoughts on why he could or shouldn't go??

[statman]

every player will be up for trade exept for Kouta, Lance and Mckay
Mckernan and Campo have passed it and will be traded

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by statman
every player will be up for trade exept for Kouta, Lance and Mckay
Mckernan and Campo have passed it and will be traded

Please, don't put Campo's form in the same breath as McKernan's. Campo has been very good this year; third or fourth in kicks of the competition, our 2nd highest possession winner, has pace and skill that our midfield desperately needs and he's in contention for the B & F.

[Cyclops]

May I comment in your forum?

Originally posted by TheSheik
No-one at Carlton should be classed as 'untouchable', however there are a small few who could be described as 'very unlikely to be traded'. They are :

Waite
Fisher
Thornton
Angwin

Everyone else on the list is either fair game or open to a decent offer.

Sounds like sense to me. The Pies basically cleaned out the entire list between 1999 and 2002 I think there were five blokes left from 1999. It took a couple on seasons to turn the lot over but it had to be done.

TheSheik have you been calling for a complete cleanout? Its very appealing but you probably need to stage it over at least two seasons, or you don't have a side at all.

[lamby29]

Two Carlton players I rate:

Angwin
Wiggins

What do you want for them?

[HHF]

We would take McKernan off you but only for Draft Picks

[Duffman95]

Ok, pick 80 good enough for ya?

[BigCat1]

Cats fans would love to have Lance in a different set of blue and white jumpers next year.

Will give you Spriggs + Mooney/Kingsley + 3rd rd pick.

[Lidge]

From an outsider looking in point of view - only McKay (due to long service and status plus age) and Waite (father/son connection) would be untouchable and in McKay's case un-tradeable.

Pagan is pretty ruthless and doesn't have any 'history' with the blokes on the list - therefore no favours owed (other than the ex Roos and he traded McKernan anyway). He will do what it takes to improve your list and no doubt put a few more noses out of joint in his pursuit of success.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Realistically there are many more than should not be traded. What is the point in trading Fisher for example when he is young, a rising star and has a future as a marking half forward/key position player? Realistically you are not going to get anyone better for him unless you get one of the elite. We will not trade him for someone older as it defeats the purpose of rebuilding. All we could do if we traded many of our players is break even on the deal, trade for someone of a like type and there is no point to doing that unless the player concerned could do with a change of scenery. If the Dogs said we will give you Robert Murphy for Fisher, then we would do it I dare say but let's keep our heads out of the clouds and focus on what we would be offered. Decent young players should be off limits or else we have learned nothing.

[BigCat1]

But what you can do Old Dark Navy's is trade some of your better players for say two or three early 20 year olds. Players that will make your team next year. Players that could give you 8 good seasons at the CFC. IMO it would be better to have three solid players from other clubs than say one of Whitnall or Campo.

Even the most die hard Carlton fans would have to admit that a premiership looks unlikely for the next 5-7 years. It's going to be tough unless you start your re-building now. Realistically from an unbias point of view there are probably only 3 or 4 people on your list that could be traded to get those two or three youngsters to your club. There is no way known that Calton will be trading any of the youngsters they have debuted over the last two years. At the other end players like McKernan and Kouta cost far too much to be traded and have limited football left (age wise)

Whitnall, Campo, Lappin - Three best bests at improving your list with multiple players.
Allan and Beaumont - might get something small
Fevola and Houlihan - would get a lot but must be kept!

[evertonfc]

Originally posted by BigCat1
Cats fans would love to have Lance in a different set of blue and white jumpers next year.

Will give you Spriggs + Mooney/Kingsley + 3rd rd pick.

Will give you 2nd Round + Daniel Wulf + Jason Blake.

[Thrawn]

I've revised my list:

Koutoufides
McKay
Whitnall
Fevola
Waite
Fisher
Thornton
Lappin

Angwin's gone. Apparently charged with theft, and guess whose house he broke into? Karl Norman.

This is very tragic because we'll have to get rid of him now. He's had enough chances as far as I'm concerned. Really tragic - a wasted talent.

[BigCat1]

Originally posted by evertonfc
Will give you 2nd Round + Daniel Wulf + Jason Blake.

Ev, your under cap pressure as it is. remember you've got to add an extra two players by 2006 under the new CBA.

[lamby29]

Originally posted by evertonfc
Will give you 2nd Round + Daniel Wulf + Jason Blake.
You have to realise that clubs don't want **** players like Blake and Wulf. They have no trade value.

[BigCat1]

plus Carlton can't trade for 2nd Rd picks

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Originally posted by BigCat1
But what you can do Old Dark Navy's is trade some of your better players for say two or three early 20 year olds. Players that will make your team next year. Players that could give you 8 good seasons at the CFC. IMO it would be better to have three solid players from other clubs than say one of Whitnall or Campo.

No doubt that's a possibility BC but I was more responding to Lidge saying that only Macca and Waite were untouchable. IMO most of our young players are untouchable.

[Kid Dynamite!]

Dont get shirty with me, as this is just a question. Wouldnt happen in a million years.

But lets just say, HYPOTHETICALLY, that Jarrad Waite wasnt on that untouchable list. Lets just say, HYPOTHETICALLY, he wanted to come to Port. What would you want?

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Brogan, Stevens and Tredrea. :p

[Effes]

Allan for Dal Santo?:D

[Kid Dynamite!]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
Brogan, Stevens and Tredrea. :p

:p
To tell you the truth, I'd say Brogan and Stevens wont be wearing the silver, teal, black and white in 2004. All this talk about 'getting my football out of the way first' is an absolute load of crap. If they were that committed to the club like they claim to be, they would have signed straight away. But hey, if they want to leave, do so at their own risk. Everyone knows whoever leaves Port is doomed. Look at Barnaby. ;)

Of course you could think I'm being hypocritical [in a sense] because Wanganeen has said the exact same thing. But I think in his case its different [dont ask me how or why, I know it sound strange]. He's a club champion, inaugral captain etc etc, and he obviously wants to see out his future with the club.

[SpecialBruce]

Livingston is a good player with a lot of potential. Carlton would be crazy to get rid of him. With that said, the Bulldogs might be after him. I wouldn't mind him at Brisbane, but we don't need him unfortunately. I rate him. He may have had a poor year, but he will be good longer down the track.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

We'll trade Livo to Brisbane SB, what will you give us for him? With pressing caps issues to again be at the forefront, a bit of salary relief might be in order. We won't get Power for him I realise but how about Tim Notting?

[SpecialBruce]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
We'll trade Livo to Brisbane SB, what will you give us for him? With pressing caps issues to again be at the forefront, a bit of salary relief might be in order. We won't get Power for him I realise but how about Tim Notting?

With Livo, we don't need him. I mean, we have Mal Michael, Justin Leppitsch, Daniel Bradshaw already and Jared Brennan with Luke Weller coming through the ranks.

We would have to get rid of one of them for Livo.

How about Bradshaw for Livo? Who else would you have to give us considering you don't have hardly any draft picks.

[SpecialBruce]

Can Livo play up forward?

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Early last year we thought he could play forward and back, then we thought he was only a back. At the start of the year we thought he should play forward, then we thought that he was better down back and after last week, we are sure he is better as a forward. :D

I think Livingston is capable anywhere but needs some confidence. Was hurt down back last week but did a lot better when he went to half forward and wandered a bit. His benefit is that he can crash packs and has a good leap. Not a bad fist when on the backline either.

Not sure of Mal Michael's age but he impresses me and if he has 5 years left in him, then his proven ability may compensate for Livo's up and down potential.

How old is Bradshaw? He too has moved forward very well this year and the ability to play forward and back is all important.

[SpecialBruce]

Originally posted by The Old Dark Navy's
Early last year we thought he could play forward and back, then we thought he was only a back. At the start of the year we thought he should play forward, then we thought that he was better down back and after last week, we are sure he is better as a forward. :D

I think Livingston is capable anywhere but needs some confidence. Was hurt down back last week but did a lot better when he went to half forward and wandered a bit. His benefit is that he can crash packs and has a good leap. Not a bad fist when on the backline either.

Not sure of Mal Michael's age but he impresses me and if he has 5 years left in him, then his proven ability may compensate for Livo's up and down potential.

How old is Bradshaw? He too has moved forward very well this year and the ability to play forward and back is all important.

Mal Michael is a Queenslander and wants to stay on the list.

Bradshaw is 25 I think. Around that age, so you have plenty of years left for him. If we were to get Livo, we have to unleash a player who is the same type player as him. Weller and Brennan aern't going anywhere. Leppitsch is contracted, Michael is uncontracted but wants to stay. So it leaves Bradshaw or Shane Morrison. Shane can play forward or back - he is a CHF mainly, but hasn't been used much as we never need him. 21 or 22.

Brisbane get: Luke Livingston
Carlton get: Daniel Bradshaw or Shane Morrison

[Kingy-dons]

they are the ****test team in the comp (carlton) and u have basically the whole side as un-touchables...what are u on

[Aussie_Roo]

How about a straight swap - Luke Livingstone for Dylan Smith?

Both were Top 6 picks in the same draft - that are yet to produce. We need a tall backman, you need an in and under midfielder. What do you say?

[SpecialBruce]

Originally posted by Kingy-dons
u have basically the whole side as un-touchables

That is technically incorrect. For Carlton to improve, they need to either trade for established players or trade for high draft picks. They can't keep the playing list they have now and expect to get better. It won't happen. So basically the whole side aern't un-touchables.

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by Kingy-dons
they are the ****test team in the comp (carlton) and u have basically the whole side as un-touchables...what are u on dickwad

Wrong. Look at my revised list, and you'll see this isn't the case.

I'm very tempted to edit your post, but I'll let you off for now.

[Kid Dynamite!]

Well you can cross Broges off your wishlist. He just signed for another three years.

Stevens for Waite in a hypothetical straight swap sound fair to you?

[Thrawn]

I'm sorry, but I have a gut instinct that Waite will be a far better player than Stevens in a few years time. If I'm wrong, you could always came back and taunt me. ;)

[Thrawn]

Originally posted by SpecialBruce


Brisbane get: Luke Livingston
Carlton get: Daniel Bradshaw

Done. I rate Bradshaw very highly... he would be very good for Carlton. I'm just not sure that Livingston will be the player that many of us predicted.

[Kid Dynamite!]

Originally posted by Thrawn
I'm sorry, but I have a gut instinct that Waite will be a far better player than Stevens in a few years time. If I'm wrong, you could always came back and taunt me. ;)

Hah, I like it. At the end of 2006, if Waite is a better player than Stevens was [or is :confused:] then I'll come back and taunt you.

I've already named my own punishment. If Richo is traded, I'm buying a Carlton membership!

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Originally posted by Thrawn
I'm very tempted to edit your post, but I'll let you off for now. 3 posts in to his/her illustrious posting career, I decided to train 'em early. :)