The Number 6 debate- stake your claim

[ant22]

For weeks down here in Vic(and all over the country I guess) there has been a debate going around about who should be number 6. Some are suggesting Mcdonald because he can bowl a bit, Ferguson, Khawaja, White etc etc. It looks likes its wide open after north has failed again. So who should it be and why?

Personally I think it should be out of ferguson and Khawaja. My argument is simple. They are young and they are talented and while they might not be right now they both have the ability to be one of Australias top 6 batsmen very soon and IMO that is the number thing that needs to be considered. We need to build for the future so age I think is important.If they are never going to be ranked in our top 6 then dont pick them I say. Even though I am a proud vic I have doubts that Mcdonald or white will be in the top 6 batsmen in the country. If they can bowl it is some sort of a bonus but I hope this is not considered because with 3 paceman, watson and a spinner we have 5 bowlers and history says if your 6th best bowler gets alot of overs then you will not win test matches. Your 6th best bowler should be a change of end bowler and occassional partnership breaker and nothing more.

Are there any others that should be considered? Klinger, Finch, Bailey? do any of these guys deserve consideration?

[CAS79]

For weeks down here in Vic(and all over the country I guess) there has been a debate going around about who should be number 6. Some are suggesting Mcdonald because he can bowl a bit, Ferguson, Khawaja, White etc etc. It looks likes its wide open after north has failed again. So who should it be and why?

Personally I think it should be out of ferguson and Khawaja. My argument is simple. They are young and they are talented and while they might not be right now they both have the ability to be one of Australias top 6 batsmen very soon and IMO that is the number thing that needs to be considered. We need to build for the future so age I think is important.If they are never going to be ranked in our top 6 then dont pick them I say. Even though I am a proud vic I have doubts that Mcdonald or white will be in the top 6 batsmen in the country. If they can bowl it is some sort of a bonus but I hope this is not considered because with 3 paceman, watson and a spinner we have 5 bowlers and history says if your 6th best bowler gets alot of overs then you will not win test matches. Your 6th best bowler should be a change of end bowler and occassional partnership breaker and nothing more.

Are there any others that should be considered? Klinger, Finch, Bailey? do any of these guys deserve consideration?


Pity non of the real options are really in form. Finch at the moment has no place in this conversation.

If White backs up his performance in Hobart with another ton, preferably a first innings one I can see a potential recall there.

[BACCS]

The problem is, Ferguson and Khawaja haven't really made a mountain of runs in their last couple of digs, which helps North. North will still be there next Test, regardless of what happens in the 2nd innings, and it sucks.

[dan warna]

Candidates are:

Smith, 21. Batting average 48 bowling average about the same, looks like a solid batsman who can throw a few overs in a tight spot, had a couple of tests didn't show much. test cricket batting average 25, bowling average 28, but only 3 wickets for 2 test matches.
Khawaja, age 23. batting average 53, shown to be another potential top flight batsman
white age 27. spud start to his career for the first 3 or 4 seasons, last 3 or 4 cemented himself as a premier 50 over and 20 over player, and a dashing 4 day player, had a short stint in the test side as a bowler, did nothing, was uninspiring batting at 8 too, test average with bat around 30.
McDonald age 29. acquitted himself adequately with the ball, didn't do anything with the bat, the current inform allrounder averages 4o with bat and 30 with the ball career wise, in spanking form prior to injury.
Ferguson 26. injury prone but talented sA batsman average approaching 50 in FC cricket.


Long shot:

Steve o'keefe 26, 54 with the bat and 26 with the ball...
Dhussey, at 33 despite career average of 55.5 in FC cricket seems to be a long option at best.

the selectors have shown a preference for smith and khawaja next in line, many victorians see White as an option and more so as a future VC or captain given his solid leadership over victoria.

[CarlosSETANTA]

Haddin making runs I think helps Smith, and to a lesser extent McDonald, in that you can be confident in playing Haddin at 6 and either of the above at 7 without too much loss in quality.

I think the squad selection/Khwaja being preferred to Smith, shows a want to play two spinners in Adelaide. Siddle's form and a probable want to get Bollinger back in the team complicates this.

I reckon a DNB in the second innings will save North for Adelaide. A twin failure, and I think Smith will play in Adelaide.

[cross#4]

Anyone for a move to Ponting to 6 just like Allen Border? Then have our top 7 like this.

Watson
Katich
Clarke
Hussey
Kwaja/Hughes/White
Ponting
Haddin

But I'd I could pick a top 7 it would be this

Katich
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Hussey
Ponting
Haddin

Allows Watson to bowl more overs and attack at number 3, klatch and hughes work well together, Clarke and Hussey play the same role as they do now and Ponting can play very aggressive at number 6 with Haddin also

[Caesar]

If you're going to drop North you need to pick someone based purely on batting credentials. We are fortunate enough to have an excellent allrounder in Watson - no other country bar South Africa has such a luxury - and if you are picking a middle order batsman with consideration of his ability with the ball then it indicates something is wrong with your main bowling battery.

None of the current options are 100% satisfactory. Khawaja has the runs on the board but he isn't in form. Smith is in form but he's probably a bit green. McDonald is in brilliant form but he doesn't have the pedigree with the bat.

White is probably the most solid option but there's still question marks over his style and discipline in the longer format. We already have Haddin in the lower order and another player in that mould is probably not ideal.

I still cannot fathom why people are constantly talking up Ferguson. Yes he's been a lot better recently in the longer format, but he seems to have very little going for him that puts him above the other options.

[CarlosSETANTA]

With Siddle back in form, it's now North who is essentially the 11th player in that side (Doherty given exception as they're not going to drop him after one test...surely?)

If it weren't for Hilditch talking up having 4 seamers with Watson in the side, I would almost argue that playing an extra bowler in Bollinger ahead of North might be a better overall result, with Haddin in form.

Having said that, if they seldom did it with Gilchrist in the side, they won't with Haddin.

[cross#4]

Hughes at 6, he would be a very good number 6

[Goldencats]

Anyone for a move to Ponting to 6 just like Allen Border? Then have our top 7 like this.

Watson
Katich
Clarke
Hussey
Kwaja/Hughes/White
Ponting
Haddin

But I'd I could pick a top 7 it would be this

Katich
Hughes
Watson
Clarke
Hussey
Ponting
Haddin

Allows Watson to bowl more overs and attack at number 3, klatch and hughes work well together, Clarke and Hussey play the same role as they do now and Ponting can play very aggressive at number 6 with Haddin also

I like that idea, Punter just doesn't get the job done at 3 anymore

Just bring in some1 so we can **** North off, these 2 batsmen today have shown if you're good enough you fight under pressure and get a partnership going

I just can't understand why they persist with this dud, he is shit, and he will never get you out of trouble, the batsmen have handled Swann with ease in this test match yet North had no clue against him

[Tyberious Funk]

I suspect that Ponting will either bat at 3, or not at all.

The captain usually has final say over the batting order and he just seems too pigheaded to accept he might not be up to batting first drop anymore.

Personally, I'd like to see Smith come in for North and push Haddin up to 6. Two spinners and four pace bowlers should give Ponting plenty of bowling options. And Smith couldn't be any worse than North as a batsman.

[Costanza_]

Hughes. Don't see why they need to wait for an openers slot to open before getting him in there. They clearly have him in their long term sights, why not bat him at 6? Could do great things.

[Dujon11]

Hughes at 6, he would be a very good number 6

I agree.

Hodge out of retirement??

[ManWithNoName]

Everyone here is aware Andrew McDonald currently has a broken hand, yes?

[Tyberious Funk]

Ferguson 26. injury prone but talented sA batsman average approaching 50 in FC cricket.



Ferguson's average is actually 35. He's also just been knocked over LBW twice, by the mighty... James Faulkner?

I don't mind seeing him the one day arena, but I'm not convinced about him for test matches.

[Gazza_11]

We meed a number 6 that is capable of a rearguard innings. North is clearly incapable of that, seeing as he does shit all when we are in trouble.

[aussie1st]

Smith, Hughes or Khawaja are my picks. White could press his claim with some runs in the Shield game currently going on but rain keeps stuffing that up.

[Lenny29]

We meed a number 6 that is capable of a rearguard innings. North is clearly incapable of that, seeing as he does shit all when we are in trouble.

Hopes? :P

Probably not near contention but tends to come in for QLD at 5/70 regularly and does ok

[boncer34]

Hodge.

[ManWithNoName]

Hodge.
Doesn't play first class cricket anymore.

[eddiesmith]

North is safe now ;)

[chargers 09]

I was thinking Elevate Haddin to 6 and bring Paine in at 7 possibly? any merit to that idea? Ourely because Paine is our best man behind the stumps in Australia and I think Haddin would be a sold number 6. Dont know where he would field though.

[big_e]

I was thinking Elevate Haddin to 6 and bring Paine in at 7 possibly? any merit to that idea?

No. Just no.

[Spudregus_87]

I'd put Ferguson in there instead of North.

Khawaja has age on his side and can take over from Ponting when he retires.

[Drummond]

Khawaja. Just do it, he's not in sparking form right now, but everything about him screams international success.

[Gak Attack]

Ponting to 6 and Khawaja in at 3 is what I would like to see... won't happen though.

[TheColeTrain]

I'd put Ferguson in there instead of North.

Khawaja has age on his side and can take over from Ponting when he retires.

Ferguson?
Has had opportunities to push for selection over the last couple of weeks but has failed each time he has gone out to bat, doesn't deserve a shot. By all means he is good enough to be in the ODI 20/20 games but he still is a very average first class player.

[The Governor]

The logical move would be to bring in Stephen Smith for Marcus North. Hence, Smith can bat at 6 and Haddin at 7. I would use Stephen Smith as a specialist batsman at number 6 with Haddin at number 7.

Or, the selectors may go for Cameron White at the number 6 position to groom him for the number 5 batting spot. Michael Hussey may decide to go out on his own terms after the Ashes series and the inclusion of Cam White for Marcus NOrth may be the right move for the remaining Ashes tests. Cameron White has batted against most of the English bowlers whilst playing for Somerset and this is a huge advantage.

I would not even think about moving Shane Watson down the order. Shane Watson has been a great find in the opening slot. He is performing the Matty Hayden role and Gordon Greenidge role for the side. He wears out the new ball whilst he scores runs at a good run rate. He has a good attacking and defensive technique and he knows when to punish the bad ball for four. If you look at previous winning dynasties, all winning sides have an attacking opening batsman who keeps the run rate ticking by playing attacking shots whilst maintaining a good defensive technique to good deliveries. Michael SLater, Matthew Hayden, Graham Gooch and Gordon Greenidge performed the attacking opening role to a tee during their careers whilst their opening partner played the sheet anchor role for the team.

[Spudregus_87]

Ferguson?
Has had opportunities to push for selection over the last couple of weeks but has failed each time he has gone out to bat, doesn't deserve a shot. By all means he is good enough to be in the ODI 20/20 games but he still is a very average first class player.

I just think that Ferguson's batting style is easily adaptable to that #6 test spot, regardless of form, if given a sustained opportunity.

Hussey's logical replacement.

Would also take Smith at 6 as a pure batsman. Would hope his bowling improved a bit though.

[Gazza_11]

George Bailey is playing a fantastic rearguard innings at the moment. Tassie 4-15 needing 221 to win, and he's got 67* off 90, Tigers now 129/5. If he makes a big hundred here, he'd have to be considered ahead of North, if not others.

[BUSTER29]

Shaun Marsh.

[cross#4]

lol???

[wilsonstheman]

perhaps one of the things thats keeping north in the side is his leadership credentials, and perhaps that he looks to be our only other option (other than clarke) to replace punter as captain.

If only he could bat.

[Doodlesweaver]

Shaun Marsh.

Nahhh. All the talent in the world and lovely batsman to watch, but for me a highly suspect temperament.

[Rookie]

Firstly, I think the future Australian batting line-up in two years time should be:

Hughes
Watson
Khawaja
Clarke
Ferguson / White
Smith
Paine

Given the form of Marsh, I'd suspect he's likely to push for a place now also. Potentially, Marsh and Hughes could open and Watson could come in at number three or four - a proposition I'd be more comfortable given Watson's ability with the bowl and the fact that he has struggled to turn starts into truly large and match-winning scores, and the fact that he still seems more suited to a middle order position in test match cricket

Haddin, Katich, Ponting, and Hussey don't have long to go, and if England retain the Ashes heads will roll. I'm not even considering North as I think this whole thread is based on the assumption that he won't last out the Ashes.

All indications we're getting from selectors point to either Smith or Khawaja, with Ferguson next in line after that. Personally, I'm not a huge Ferguson fan as he hasn't scored enough runs over a long enough period for me (personally) and I don't think it's rare people drastically outperform their first class averages in test match cricket. I know he's improving but wouldn't be my first choice.

I'd pick Khawaja, all reports indicate he's going to be a top line test match player and we may as well blood him young.

Smith to me looks like genuine quality, I wish he hadn't been appointed Warne's heir apparent as I think he's the second best young bat in the country. His bowling needs more time - another season of bowling a full load in first class cricket at least. Should that keep him out of the test side? I'm not sure but if Khawaja doesn't make runs soon, Smith would become my next choice.

White is the other one I'd consider; I think he should be blooded soon. I rate him as a batsman and as a leader and I think Pup needs some strong, cool heads around him when he takes over. Hussey won't last that long, and Haddin mightn't either. White should be told to start making runs because there might be a place for him soon.

All that said, I'd pick Khawaja unless dropping Marcus North corresponded with a pitch where we might need Smith.

[Homer Jnr]

Chris Lynn?

Of course he shouldn't get a spot in the test squad, but it won't be long until his name is mentioned, particularly seeing that no other middle order bats are making runs around Australia currently.

Currently Smith may have his nose in front as the most likely to challenge North, but that is another test or two away at least.

[CarlosSETANTA]

North will stay, but I think that with a Shield game at the WACA against the Bulls just a few days before the test, I think him playing there is a better indication as to whether he should play in the third test, rather than in Adelaide, where half this board could probably notch a 50 up without too much trouble.

[statsman74]

George Bailey is playing a fantastic rearguard innings at the moment. Tassie 4-15 needing 221 to win, and he's got 67* off 90, Tigers now 129/5. If he makes a big hundred here, he'd have to be considered ahead of North, if not others.

Shield Scores this year for the likely suspects

Bailey : 9*, 6, 21, 3, 43, 13, 9, 20, 77
Ferguson : 129, 12, 36 (also 7 & 10 against England A)
S Smith : 18, 12, 8 (also 59 & 0 against England A)
White : 1, 7, 23, 23* (also 5 & 111 against England A)
Khawaja : 214, 60, 23, 42, 17 (also 13 & 0 against England A)
Marsh : 137, 89, 69 not out in current innings still going

[Doodlesweaver]

Shield Scores this year for the likely suspects

Bailey : 9*, 6, 21, 3, 43, 13, 9, 20, 77
Ferguson : 129, 12, 36 (also 7 & 10 against England A)
S Smith : 18, 12, 8 (also 59 & 0 against England A)
White : 1, 7, 23, 23* (also 5 & 111 against England A)
Khawaja : 214, 60, 23, 42, 17 (also 13 & 0 against England A)
Marsh : 137, 89, 50+ in current innings still going

Shaun Marsh played a lone hand for a ton in the Ryobi too just recently, he is in rocking form.

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Everyone here is aware Andrew McDonald currently has a broken hand, yes?

Yes unfortunately. Would have him straight in.Thought he bowled well when playing for Australia and until his injury was the in form batsmen. How long is he going to be out?

[big_e]

Shaun Marsh played a lone hand for a ton in the Ryobi too just recently, he is in rocking form.

Finished with 86 today. No other Warrior made it to 40.

He's in the international set-up already so it wouldn't be a leftfield choice by any means,

[Gazza_11]

Shield Scores this year for the likely suspects

Bailey : 9*, 6, 21, 3, 43, 13, 9, 20, 77
Ferguson : 129, 12, 36 (also 7 & 10 against England A)
S Smith : 18, 12, 8 (also 59 & 0 against England A)
White : 1, 7, 23, 23* (also 5 & 111 against England A)
Khawaja : 214, 60, 23, 42, 17 (also 13 & 0 against England A)
Marsh : 137, 89, 69 not out in current innings still going

Thanks for that. Khawaja the only stand out, Marsh with consistency. Poor stuff from Ferguson and White when a few more performances could have bumped them into the team. Same for Khawaja really. Didn't realise Bailey had been so inconsistent.

[eddiesmith]

Thanks for that. Khawaja the only stand out, Marsh with consistency. Poor stuff from Ferguson and White when a few more performances could have bumped them into the team. Same for Khawaja really. Didn't realise Bailey had been so inconsistent.
Khawaja the standout because of 1 good innings and a lot of failures? Hmm, interesting...

[Caesar]

Stop trolling, Eddie.

[Noobz0r]

Whoa, didn't realise Marsh was in such good nick! I saw the One-day ton, that was pure class!

[krisholio14]

If Ronnie was fit i'd have him straight in there.

If he'd been given the opportunities North has had in the last 12-18 months, people wouldn't be dismissing his abilities as an international cricketer as easily as they do these days.

[Ruck Machine]

Ferguson is not a test players arsehole. Should not even be in consideration for a test spot.

[Gazza_11]

Khawaja the standout because of 1 good innings and a lot of failures? Hmm, interesting...

Throw in a 60, tick under 50 and a few other starts. In form, just not always carrying it out.

[Doodlesweaver]

If Ronnie was fit i'd have him straight in there.

If he'd been given the opportunities North has had in the last 12-18 months, people wouldn't be dismissing his abilities as an international cricketer as easily as they do these days.

If you are in, you are in. If you are out...

[Cotchin 9]

Marcus North has to stay.

[TheColeTrain]

Marcus North has to stay.

England fan?

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Marcus North has to stay.

Marcus North WILL stay