2011 Potential Draftee and Trade Watch

[Turbocat]

As Jester mentioned it , I thought we could start with an obvious one.
A kid , who if he is half reasonable , will be drafted by us in 2011.

Jed Bews

The little I have seen of the kid he is a bit different to his old man but still looks a likely type. Not unusual I suppose , watching young Liber today , he is quite a bit different to his father probably more of a "todays" type footballer.
Jed looked more of a link type player when I saw him rather than bottom of the packs but as we know watching kids football can be rather misleading , Menzel played mainly as a sweeper in the u18 champs yet look at how he is playing for us.

The main thing is Jed looks a likely type , one for us to watch thru the year and with it being another distorted draft because of GWS he would be very good value pick

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2010/03/11/153851_geelong_sports.html

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2010/05/29/177511_geelong_sports.html

[thejester]

Good start Turbo, looking forward to seeing how young Jed goes this year - handy position to be in in a (slightly less) compromised draft. Frustratingly I'm in a position with work/uni where I could go see a lot of underage footy - except I'm in Canberra! Hopefully will at least be able to get to various bits of the carnival this year, especially if they hold a round in Blacktown.

One other thing that popped up from that first article you posted Turbo is this:
The Falcons' squad of 50 contains five 19-year-olds, four who played last year - Tom MacKenzie, Mitch Fisher, Michael Sodomaco and Jarryn McCormack - and Issac Baker.
Paul Hood was with the Falcons last year and now's become part of our development staff; IIRC someone said he's handling matchday coaching for the VFL as well. Interesting that having done so he brings over two guys in Fisher and Baker who were on the fringes of the draft last season and are now too old for the Falcons.

[Pure_Ownage]

Great idea to start this thread Turbo, now I have somewhere to come and read the opinions of all you really knowledgeable guys leading up to draft time.

Will be interesting to see how Jed goes this year, I think that so long as he progresses, with the draft being compromised (and probably weaker than last year's compromised one) we'll definitely look at him.

Now just find me some talls Wellsy! :D

P.S. certainly hope Fisher gets some games later in the year in our VFL side, I've always rated him. Along with Bews, I think we might also be more likely to draft one (or more) from our VFL side as rookies (I know we take one most years, but I reckon this year we might take more than one) given the lack of depth in the talent pool.

[Turbocat]

As the year progress ,I hope we all throw up a name or two that - we have read about or seen etc..

The first kid thought took my interest was when I was read the the TAC thread

Johnathon Patton - 196/197 cm Eastern Ranges

- a couple of reads that took my interest.

"Patton, Eastern's best-and-fairest winner last year, is a powerhouse 196cm key forward from the St Simons junior football club and will be a key to the Ranges' 2011 campaign."
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ranges-hopefuls-hit-training-track/story-fn53klc6-1226009528682

Ranges pins hopes on star
02 Mar, 2011 01:00 AM
EASTERN Ranges may not have a lot to be happy about leading into the TAC Cup season but one shining light is key forward Jonathan Patton.
The highly touted "power forward" and reigning club best-and-fairest will attract plenty of attention from AFL scouts and opponents this season.

Region manager Anthony Parkin said Patton was a player to watch for in 2011 after a superb bottom-age season.
"He's a power forward with a great set of hands," he said. "He'll anchor our forward line. At 196 centimetres and 93kilograms, he takes a lot of moving and is similar to Jonathan Brown
http://www.knoxweekly.com.au/news/local/sport/football-australian-rules/ranges-pins-hopes-on-star/2090322.aspx



So I had a look at him play on MatchVision
http://rangesfc.matchvision.com.au/player/jonathon-patton

My impressions - Its always very difficult to judge low tempo footy compared to high tempo. Its why Hawkins dominated at Juniors compared to Daws yet at the higher tempo , maybe Daws has adjusted to it better.

Anyway this kid look talented. He may be a bit too relaxed to judge him when he is playing against the other kids but he seems to read the play well. Moves around , gets up the ground and looks for team mates to give to. Kicking seems good maybe not great but good has good action. He marks overhead and on the chest . Nice package. By the way he kicked 6 the first week.

I’d say we will see more of him in the Champs but he is one to keep on eye on if we are looking at another tall forward IF we think Brown may just be a little fragile

[year of the cat]

Good to see this thread up and running again for the year. Always enjoy it.

If memory serves me correctly Turbo you touted the drafting of Smedts very early on (first page?) last year. If Patton gets taken by us I will personally commend you as Wells' future replacement!!

It seems consensus already that we are likely to go tall with this years draft having taken a swag of mids over the past two drafts. You would think that with Ottens and Mooney retiring at years end that there is even more reason to replace a couple of talls. Blake is also likely to be moved on and Milburn will also retire. Do we envisage any other changes?

I would imagine that if we look to upgrade one rookie (Weston?) that we will take at least 3 players in the draft. You would think that there will be at least one and probably two further player/s delisted or traded that it is more likely we will go to the draft with 4-5 players in our sights.

If Bews is to be a FS pick (small/med type) then we may well go tall with our other picks - including taking at least one ruckman.

I wonder whether we will actively go after either a youngish KP or ruckman during trade week? With salary cap space being available with Ablett's defection and these other senior players retiring we may well be in a position to attract a decent young tall. Names like McKernan, Talia, Mitch Brown (WC), Leuenberger and Clark (everyone else is leaving Brisvegas) may be looked at.

What do we think?

[Turbocat]

Good memory there YOTC. I was certainly happy with our first two picks. wrapped in Guthrie as well although Darling is a bit of worry , he is looking rather good. Nutjob but he can play.

Anyway strategy.
Lets keep in mind it may be Scotts first influence on our drafting but I doubt he will want to mess with Wells too much when he looks at Menzel , Duncan etc.

Generally I think we will go the same we have before. Go for guys that are good kids , have reasonable size , very good foot skills and footy smarts , the quicker the better but not before the former.

One thing to keep in mind Geelong have drafted a ruck in 03,05,07,09 so what's the chance in 11 that we go for another ruck when we will probably lose a couple off our list. I certainly will be looking for another guy capable of playing like a Salmon type.

I think we have all been guilty having less faith in Lonergan than the inner circle but I'm not enamored with Gillies at this stage. So another tall that is defender type may be needed but can West do this . Surely Lonergan's story will give West hope , and I really have not seen Bathie yet.

Rookies , jurys out. By years end there may not be a Rookie list if the players have their way. Westons has apparently hurt his back , very unfortunate. I await Simpkin getting a game because he looked promising pre-season.

[Pure_Ownage]

Patton's really impressive. Given our first pick will be in the late teens or the early twenties though, I can't see him falling that far. Will go to someone else earlier if not GWS.

My consensus is given we're only going to have 3 picks inside 60 (well that's likely unless we trade anyone out at the end of the year) we'll look to take 3 guys only. Given the perceived lack of depth of the draft I can't see us taking any more than three players unless we trade out guys to get more picks in. The list changes to me look obvious even though it's a fair way out, we'll lose 4 retirees (probably Ling Otto Mooney and Dasher) plus Blake, and elevate one or two rookies, Weston and Simpkin would be my tips.

I think we have to go tall this year, having said that you can only pick what's there, and clearly Wells and a few other recruiters didn't rate the talls in 2010, so it'll be a matter of what quality is around our picks. Nevertheless if it's a line ball call we've got to take talls this year, we'll be losing 2 ruckmen, Mooney, plus Scarlett in a year or two. Key defence must be a priority unless Gillies really comes on and Drum shows a lot once he gets back on the park, even if they do I'd still look for a tall back given Lonergan isn't a long term solution at 27. Despite Pods age, I rate Brown and Vardy enough not to be super concerned about a KPF unless there's a real slider. A quality ruckman is a must, whether we draft one or trade for one is the question.

[thejester]

I agree Patton looks good but he's got GWS written all over him...then again this time in 2009 John Butcher was already wearing a Melbourne jumper and in 2008 NicNat and Rich were going 1 and 2 and no-one had ever heard of Jack Watts and Stephen Hill - so who knows?

Reckon our needs are going to be determined to a huge extent by the performance of a couple of players. Will Gillies show enough or do we need insurance? Is Walker a serious long-term prospect, either forward or back? We've got four ruckmen playing twos at the moment; two are out of contract at the end of the year. How well they all play determines whether or not we need to draft anothe ruck.

[Pure_Ownage]

I agree Jes things can change but not to that extent. Will be gone before our 20's pick I reckon. Never mind.

Certainly the performance of our talls in the VFL will determine strategy to some extent, but not solely. Even if Gillies does keep developing I do feel we need another option in the pipeline. Similarly I suspect the decision will just about have already been made that Blake is going and the other three young rucks staying.

The ruck issue is interesting. In reality any ruckman we get at pick 20ish in a compromised draft isn't likely to be the solution, the best crack at that is wheeling out the compo pick in a really good draft as a (hopefully) top 10 pick and get a quality junior ruckman then.

In reality, the best model is to run with Dawson/West Vardy, give them 2 years to show what they can do, and if they can't, wheel out the comp pick around 2013. The issue with that however is with development time, it then becomes several years (2016ish) before we have a quality ruckman to feed this great batch of mids we are building, if Dawson etc don't come on as we hope, and this will have a material effect on our ability to win games, no matter how good our mids are. So to me it becomes a matter of philosophy in terms of when the club feels our next genuine flag crack is (obviously we don't believe in bottoming out, but I refer to when we think our next window time opens) is 3-4 years away, then we just go with what we have, including drafting talls this year on top. If they believe we are a chance sooner than that then they may have to go into the trade market for a quality ruckman should there be one. To me that will be the big decision that Wells will make this year, more so than whether to target talls in the draft, which I suspect is likely given the ages of Scarlett, Mooney Podsiadly and Ottens.

[Turbocat]

I agree Jes things can change but not to that extent. Will be gone before our 20's pick I reckon. Never mind.

You may be right PO but if we look back at our prognostications 12 months ago would we have Darling going at 26? Things can happen the question is if those things then effect your own opinion so much that you probably then wont draft him.

Not rated near as high but young Walker slipped to our Rookie pick when a lot had him going much earlier and hopefully this it may play to our advantage. I have not seen him play that much , just the champs game at Geelong but he looked a nice type that may be capable both ends.Grundy was a forward too and now plays permanent defender , plenty have done it the past.

In any case Patton's just one of many , I have no doubt that if we can pick up a Duncan at 28, Christensen at 40 etc... that we can find some kids in this compromised draft worth a pick.

I can not argue with your logic on rucks , its a very long time line for ruckmen unless one can grab a ruck who is the equivalent of Selwood and you don't often get that with the pick we will have. I wouldn't totally exclude the possibility of us trading to get a lower pick but thats just fairyfloss till its in your hand.

Addendum to Jed Bews ; the TAC website has his height as 186 , hope its accurate as it would certainly only help his claims

[Pure_Ownage]

I understand what you're saying, although to be fair Darling had off field issues which is largely why he slid. Both Butcher and Darling performed under expectations in their final year after being touted as top 3 picks, yet one slid a lot further than the other and there's a reason for that. He (Darling) does look like a real player though but that's why lots of clubs passed on him, and it's unusual for a player to slide that far. For example young (Jake) Stringer who trained with us over summer will slide massively now that he's broken his leg, but a kid like Patton who seems to be top 10 now may slide a bit, but he won't slide far enough for us.

I reckon we can get a good player even in this draft in the 20's, the question will be whether we can get a good ruck in the 20's, because no doubt the new club will look for talls as GC did, so that might be a real problem for us unless we end up trading up. In reality we're a bit disadvantaged because this year we need a specific type of player, so if we can get a good mid in the 20's that's great, but it's not what we need as much as a tall or a key defender, so we really have to hope there's some good ones and they slide. If there are a few good talls in this draft I'd like to see us try and be aggressive in trading player or players out to get a higher pick(s).

On Jed, I noticed he was named for the Falcons opening game on the w/e, anyone know how he went?

Certainly the ruck issue is as I said a problem because of the timeline it takes to develop them (Dawson and West are a case in point there) so like I said I think the club will have to have a philosophical decision about whether their aim for the next 3 years is to simply manage the transition and ensure we don't fall too farm, or whether they want to keep having a genuine flag crack and think the rest of the list is good enough for that. If it's the latter, expect us to be linked with any good ruckman who looks like leaving his current club.

[rizzo]

Gonna looks forward to contributing to this, this year. Last year was so hectic i didn't see much footy.

[thejester]

Don't know how Bews went but the Falcons got done. Only other thing of interest I saw was that there's a Higgins lining up for them - presumably brother of. Interested to see how he goes.

[LankyCat]

Hi guys

I am interested why you all seem to agree that another ruckman is a consideration. As far as I know we currently have on our list:
Blake - Gone
Otto - Probably gone depending on his body
Dawson - Competed well every time I have seen him and big enough to play 1st ruck
West - Having his best ever season so far
Vardy - Was expected to be a high pick and one of the best junior ruckmen before he got drafted and apparently playing well in the 2s
Bathie? - Think I read he is an ex basketballer and is playing down back atm.

Given the history of ruck draftees (Cox + Sandilands were rookies) why is there any need to further clog up the VFL team when we have 4 ruck prospects + hawkins now? Or is it just that dawson may be the only one of the "kids" tall enough to replace otto as 1st ruck?

Also, very glad you started this thread again. I dont post much but I have been reading it for the last couple of years and find it very interesting

[Turbocat]

Lanky , this is only my opinion so i can be as wrong as anyone but
1 , We have shown that we will draft a ruckman bi-annually
2, Read PO's post rel to timeline. You trade for a ruck you need now , you draft for a ruck in 3-4 years time.Of course so much can happen in that timeline that it makes it essential to keep a heavy number listed.
3, Even if a ruckman is poor , they usually are worth something in trade. Not so for mids
4, The change of the game may mean that the players on list don't suit where the we think the game is heading..
5, As much as we may hope that one of our kids develop , if a player presents that looks a better option we would be only smart to grab him. Brisbane did this with Leuenburger for eg.
Generally the picks that we get means that the cream tall guys are gone. We then picks up the best we can which is usually a mid type player and grab a tall later who may be talented but is consider a much longer term prospect.
If Billy Longer or Todd Elton or some other obviously talented tall kid fell to us we would be crazy not to consider it even if it made us too tall short term.

[Pure_Ownage]

Hi guys

I am interested why you all seem to agree that another ruckman is a consideration. As far as I know we currently have on our list:
Blake - Gone
Otto - Probably gone depending on his body
Dawson - Competed well every time I have seen him and big enough to play 1st ruck
West - Having his best ever season so far
Vardy - Was expected to be a high pick and one of the best junior ruckmen before he got drafted and apparently playing well in the 2s
Bathie? - Think I read he is an ex basketballer and is playing down back atm.

Given the history of ruck draftees (Cox + Sandilands were rookies) why is there any need to further clog up the VFL team when we have 4 ruck prospects + hawkins now? Or is it just that dawson may be the only one of the "kids" tall enough to replace otto as 1st ruck?

Also, very glad you started this thread again. I dont post much but I have been reading it for the last couple of years and find it very interesting

Gday Lanky, here's how I see it:
-Otto will retire at the end of the year and Blakey will be gone
-Bathie is too speculative to be considered in the depth at this point (not to say he won't come on, but you can't do your list management assuming that he will)
-Vardy yes is rated, but the club rates him as a quality CHF. He will play ruck, but that's more because of the interchange rule than anyone else. I doubt he will become a no1 ruck at afl level

-This year is Dawson's 4th year and West's 6th, and neither of them have done a lot. That's not a knock on them, for they've lacked opportunities, but you couldn't honestly be confident enough in either of them to say yep, our rucks are set, don't draft any more. By contrast, when you look at the senior mids we have, Bartel, Kelly, Selwood et al, plus Duncan, Menz, Poodle, Bundy, Guthrie etc, we have much more depth in that position. So it really makes sense to draft another ruck, not so mucb because our rucks are crap per se, but it's the area of the list that we are relatively weaker in, so it's good list management to strengthen it.

And as I've discussed, rucks tend to take so long to develop, so if you put your faith in Daws/West etc now, and they don't come on, it's 3 yeaes before you discover that, and then another 4 years or so for you to draft and develop another ruck. Much better to draft another one now and reduce the risk you end up wasting that much time. If he develops, and Dawson etc also do, and you end up with a surplus of rucks, that's fine, because ruckmen always attract good value at the trade table (there's heaps of examples of that).

So I reckon all the logic says we'll draft another one now. The issue is whether the pool has one, one of my concerns is that early on in their life GC took Smith, Nicholls and Thompson as 17yo/zone guys, whereas to my knowledge GWS haven't taken any good ruckmen yet, so the ones that are in the pool I reckon they'll take and we'll be lucky if anyone slips through

[Pure_Ownage]

Lanky , this is only my opinion so i cant be as wrong as anyone but
1 , We have shown that we will draft a ruckman bi-annually
2, Read PO's post rel to timeline. You trade for a ruck you need now , you draft for a ruck in 3-4 years time.Of course so much can happen in that timeline that it makes it essential to keep a heavy number listed.
3, Even if a ruckman is poor , they usually are worth something in trade. Not so for mids
4, The change of the game may mean that the players on list don't suit where the we think the game is heading..
5, As much as we may hope that one of our kids develop , if a player presents that looks a better option we would be only smart to grab him. Brisbane did this with Leuenburger for eg.
Generally the picks that we get means that the cream tall guys are gone. We then picks up the best we can which is usually a mid type player and grab a tall later who may be talented but is consider a much longer term prospect.
If Billy Longer or Todd Elton or some other obviously talented tall kid fell to us we would be crazy not to consider it even if it made us too tall short term.

Agree with all those points, particularly about developing a heavy number.

As for Longer, not sure how we could get him, even if we tried to trade up our first pick, I reckon he'll be out of reach. Pity because I rate the kid.

One thing I wonder about, and it would have to be answered by the more knowledgeable guys on this board, are there any rucks really rated this year who are eligible for the GWS 17yo mini draft? If so I can see us offering up some good players to try and get the next Kingy.

[Cataholic]

Read an interesting article in the Hun today, where there was some speculation that the Suns will struggle to retain all their youngsters as rival clubs attempt to lure them away.

One name thrown out was Tom Lynch - a Victorian born 'key forward'.

Speculative piece of writing of course, but might he be one we'd pursue?

[Turbocat]

The idea is good , in that there will be heap of kids that used to being "in the side" and may , for what ever reason , miss out. Probably it will be a bit like kids in a lollie shop because they have a heap of quality up there and im sure the SA clubs will target SA kids , WA clubs target WA kids etc. We and I hope all the other big clubs can have a real dip (serve them right for being far to greedy imo) and the very min pressure them in their SC. Names? Lynch & Caddy are perhaps the obvious ones but kids like Piers Flangagan & Tom Nicholls might be good chances too. Nicholls is a ruckman that will struggle for game time behind Gorringe and Smith

[Pure_Ownage]

Read an interesting article in the Hun today, where there was some speculation that the Suns will struggle to retain all their youngsters as rival clubs attempt to lure them away.

One name thrown out was Tom Lynch - a Victorian born 'key forward'.

Speculative piece of writing of course, but might he be one we'd pursue?

Maybe, although Lynch is very raw, really only shot up into contention in his final year, so it's be a bit of a gamble.

Assuming Zac Smith is no chance (he'll stay there for a long time) I'd love Gorringe as a mobile ruckman, or Tape as a backman. Both fit our needs really well and are smart footballers. Probably no chance though.

Victorian wise, Caddy and Toy might be the ones that look to come back, but we don't exactly need more midfielders, even classy ones. Gotta go hard at any bigs that look to come home.

[year of the cat]

Sam Day for me!! Would have to give up the kitchen sink to get him though.

[year of the cat]

A rumour going around that Jackson Trengove of PA wants to move back to Victoria. He would be a nice fit as a young, mobile, big bodied defender.

[Pure_Ownage]

Good mobile defender who can potentially also take a turn in the ruck, fits our needs perfectly.

If he really is coming back we'd be negligent not to talk to his management.

Would cost a first round pick at least I'd suspect but I'd be happy to entertain a trade, you've gotta get to give.

[Cataholic]

Good mobile defender who can potentially also take a turn in the ruck, fits our needs perfectly.

If he really is coming back we'd be negligent not to talk to his management.

Would cost a first round pick at least I'd suspect but I'd be happy to entertain a trade, you've gotta get to give.

While I understand your comments re: ruck depth and development time, I see our stocks of tall forwards as being pretty thin right now too, with only Brown and Vardy being serious contenders at this point.

Therefore, I'm interested in your thoughts as to which way the club would go, should both a quality tall forward and defender become available simultaneously.

How do you see it?

[Pure_Ownage]

While I understand your comments re: ruck depth and development time, I see our stocks of tall forwards as being pretty thin right now too, with only Brown and Vardy being serious contenders at this point.

Therefore, I'm interested in your thoughts as to which way the club would go, should both a quality tall forward and defender become available simultaneously.

How do you see it?

Well I'm not sure what the club would do (if it's a KPF or KPB). Ultimately if we're talking trades there's a number of factors at play including price, available picks, leverage etc, and draft, again a number of factors at play in terms of availability. Anyway, back on your question, personally I rate Brown + Vardy higher than I do Gillies (the three are all we have in reserve at either end) so I'd go KPB if it was one or the other). I do realise Brown has had a lot of injuries, but they're looking more collision injuries than ongoing soft tissue stuff, so I'd back him to come good, and I do rate Vardy. I like some things that I see in Gillies but I'm less confident, so hence KPB for me.

[Turbocat]

Both a PPF & KPB available and want to come to the Cats?

I can't remember when this type of situation would ever have of occurred , for Geelong especially , but personally , Id say it would be a case by case assessment. Rather than just look the position they play , id say they would look at the package they are bringing into the club. Quality person, someone that really wants to come to the Cats , someone that doesn't want it just for the money and versatility because quite often the position they were playing in an other side , another level of football may not transfer. Take Taylor for eg. He was a not a regular CHB in the WAFL. perhaps someone just looking for a chance to show what they could do. Think McGrath , Sanderson , etc.

But if we are talking the pure theoretical of recruitment , of getting a 23 year old Johno Brown or a 23 year old Paul Roos , Id say it would be a very difficult choice. Perhaps Roos as Ive often thought the reason we failed in the Ablett Sr era was due to our backline lacking enough quality.

IMO , if we were to grab/chase an "in the system" player , he is more than likely to be a talented kid who has struggled for a chance that may fit our requirements. Dan Talia for eg would be someone I'd be keen on. Has not got a game yet but is super mobile is now around 196cm , if we could swing that Id be wrapped. Even his brother looks promising and a similar size.

[Pure_Ownage]

Turbo, I love Talia but I reckon he'd be hard to reach. The Blues tried to get him for Jacobs but Adelaide didn't want to deal.

But hey as you say we could draft Michael, he's been coming along nicely from what I've seen, and I'm sure the Cannons boys that we just drafted could tell us a bit more about him too.

[Turbocat]

Turbo, I love Talia but I reckon he'd be hard to reach. The Blues tried to get him for Jacobs but Adelaide didn't want to deal.

But hey as you say we could draft Michael, he's been coming along nicely from what I've seen, and I'm sure the Cannons boys that we just drafted could tell us a bit more about him too.

I know its not our normal style to target players , and it would only work if he was wanting to come home and he was out of contract. Picked around 13 from memory so our R1 pick might do it as with any player that is not getting played that tend to fall a bit in value. I have not really followed him over there but as an u18 , he would be absolute perfect match to what we want.

I suspect there will be a bit of wheeling & dealing this year. The second year of a compromised draft and a shallower draft at that , so there will be a bit more targeting of the seasoned kids at clubs. Add GWS to that and who knows what we might have to offer. If I'm right , I hope we have Menzel and Duncan secured.

[year of the cat]

You would think that Adelaide would find it difficult to hold onto all their young KP prospects. When you add McKernan, Davis, Sellar, Tippett and Walker then they are blessed with a raft of talls. To keep them all will be a challenge. If Walker goes to GWS then it will make the task of attaining Talia all the more difficult.

[Pure_Ownage]

You would think that Adelaide would find it difficult to hold onto all their young KP prospects. When you add McKernan, Davis, Sellar, Tippett and Walker then they are blessed with a raft of talls. To keep them all will be a challenge. If Walker goes to GWS then it will make the task of attaining Talia all the more difficult.

Wouldn't it work the other way? Adelaide have too many quality talls to fit in the one side so the challenge is stopping them leaving for more gametime elsewhere. If Walker goes to GWS as I expect, and McKernan possibly tries to get back home, it's more likely the others would stay, including Talia.

I know its not our normal style to target players , and it would only work if he was wanting to come home and he was out of contract. Picked around 13 from memory so our R1 pick might do it as with any player that is not getting played that tend to fall a bit in value. I have not really followed him over there but as an u18 , he would be absolute perfect match to what we want.

I suspect there will be a bit of wheeling & dealing this year. The second year of a compromised draft and a shallower draft at that , so there will be a bit more targeting of the seasoned kids at clubs. Add GWS to that and who knows what we might have to offer. If I'm right , I hope we have Menzel and Duncan secured.

Same draft as Menzel Duncan et al so out of contract at the end of the year.

Kid was very close to debut until he got injured late last year, loved him as an U18 player, just a great size physically and very athletic.

Grandfather played for the Dogs I think so if he looks to come back home you would think they'd be silly not to have a big go given how much they need a key defender.

I do agree there'll be more trading by a lot of clubs this year. Problem is with GWS having PSD picks if kids want to come back specifically to Vic you aren't going to be able to get them off their clubs on the cheap. Adelaide would want at least what they paid for Talia, and given our first pick will be in the 20's and the draft is much weaker than 09, I can't see anything working unless we're willing to give up good young player(s) (i.e. of the menzel etc quality) which I wouldn't want to do, I can't see any viable deal happening.

[year of the cat]

Wouldn't it work the other way? Adelaide have too many quality talls to fit in the one side so the challenge is stopping them leaving for more gametime elsewhere. If Walker goes to GWS as I expect, and McKernan possibly tries to get back home, it's more likely the others would stay, including Talia.





Yes that right. More difficult for us attaining Talia, rather than Adelaide retaining him. Maybe "obtain" would have been more appropriate!!

[Turbocat]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/as-the-crow-flies-20110422-1drjh.html

I found this an interesting article.

Firstly the concept of dragging a kid from another state and plonking him in a sub-club sits poorly with me. Every club makes hard choices , every club has let players go and they have gone and done well somewhere else , but to give a kid 12 months or else is rather callus in my thinking. At times we probably have given some kids too long but I'd hope we have not done 12 months or else too often.

Secondly , as he is from Torquay , is he related to the Curnow on the Falcons list who is also from Torquay? George C is 189 bit taller Ed. , haven't seen him play at all but if he is related one would think he would have a reasonable chance to getting drafted , as a successful brother quite often brings attention.

[Pure_Ownage]

Agree Turbo, I do agree most rookies really should be given 2 years (if they are working hard) and I'm glad that most of the time we do that with our rookies.

While what Craig said was probably unhelpful, the main thing the article highlighted for me is that why clubs like us can afford it have our own VFL team, because young players can feel so unsure and not a part of it when they are shunted off to other clubs to play. This is of course not Adelaide's fault but it really stood out to me.

Oh, off topic I know, but can we trade for Brandon Matera? Please :o:thumbsu: (gosh that kid is promising)

[Turbocat]

Oh, off topic I know, but can we trade for Brandon Matera? Please :o:thumbsu: (gosh that kid is promising)

Ahh .. you could replace Brandon Matera with .. David Swallow or Charlie Dixon or ZacSmith. ZS is going to be close to the best ruck in the game if the kid keeps going like that.

OK so , they have talent no surprise there , but there is no way they will be able to keep all them happy. For a start any kid that missed out today has missed on once in a life time chance , and should be more gettable .. maybe.

Hello Josh Caddy , happy up there are you? Tommy Lynch , is there really a spot for you there with so many tall's already in the sides forwardline? Peirs Flanagan , how you like to come back home? Tom Nicholls , gees there sure is a lot of guys 200 plus up there?

[Pure_Ownage]

Ah yes Turbo you are right, some will look to return. Although my guess is that they'll be guys like Caddy and maybe Toy, who while they are guns, are not quite the player type we need for our list. If only we could convince a good key forward or ruckman to come back here :thumbsu:

Hey, did you see Emma Quayle's article today linking us to Jake Stringer? While I normally love Emma's work, in this case I think she's assuming too much on the basis that he spent a week with us, lots of the AIS boys train at AFL clubs. Also, the reality is GWS will want as much as they can get for the rights to the 4 17yo's, and in the cold hard reality Jake's therefore not a good fit because his currency went down the minute he broke his leg. With how much we'd have to give up to get into the mini draft, if we did go into it I reckon it'd be to pick someone else up, not Jake (I wonder if there's another good 17 yo ruckman we can get).

I also don't think we'll give up the compo pick because it's very valuable because the 2012 draft is reportedly quite strong. If anything I think we might give up some of our picks from this year's draft (weaker) plus any senior players who want to go (maybe guys who are not as secure getting games as they used to be) to try and get in the mini draft.

[Turbocat]

Pure , the range of variations, the multitude of manipulations one would have to be a machiavellian demigod to really be on top of it.

Stringer is supposed to be top of the line. Whether we would want to sell the farm for him is for others to judge. Broken legs seem bad but Kelly had one , even Curnow last year shows that its possible to return for very little loss.
A kid thats 191 at 16 , and has been considered a top 10 lock, would be very tempting.

As far as GC go's I'd make it our personal business to at least get one kid. Its only fair to welcome them to the big league. Whether or not its exactly what we are after , they have an abundance of talent and most of them would be a good fit at any club. Obviously a Zac Smith would be ideal , but as long as he is quality I'd be happy to lighten their talent pool for the absolute min reimbursement.

"Hello , remember us"

[thejester]

Disappointing result in the VFL but interesting from a draft perspective. Only really caught the last quarter but Geelong's two majors came in the first five minutes - one each to Brown and Vardy, with Vardy having an assist on Brown's, and both the result of Cowan winning the clearance in the center and getting the quick kick forward. That 09 draft is already looking like a beauty, three of them already playing excellent seniors and the other two forging ahead in the VFL.

That said I suspect the club may want an inside midfielder as it's No 1 priority going into the draft. I know they were missing players but if Cowan's winning the clearances somethings NQR.

[Pure_Ownage]

I think we'll have an open mind depending on who falls jester, but I do see some good talls in this year's crop (I rate the talls this year more than I did last year) so I would think that's how we'll go if it's 50-50.

I don't know whether an inside mid will be the first priority, ultimately that will depend largely on whether they consider any of Duncan, Menz, Poodle, Bundy, Guthrie and/or Billie to be full time midfielders (they're so versatile all of them so only club insiders would know where they plan for them to end up), but if they plan to play them in other positions, and with Hogan stalling a bit (well seemingly so anyway) I suppose it's possible.

I'd definitely like to see us grab another key defender though, because it's a real area of weakness for us, and maybe another ruck depending on what their plans are (i.e. how much they rate) Dawson and West. To me those would be the more critical priorities this year.

[Turbocat]

Watching Jack Riewoldt last night , is there a more exciting player in the AFL? My bias perhaps but I like him much more than Franklin. More pack marks and I admire the way he has straighten up his kick to be a reliable convertor.
Probably a bit of the top , but his leap marking reminds me of GAS.

Jack's a turnstyle turner and I'd love to find a kid with that type ability and add him to our list.

[RaptorRoj]

I've been told to keep an eye on Boseley of the Falcons. Ready made full back.

[Turbocat]

I've been told to keep an eye on Boseley of the Falcons. Ready made full back.

South Barwon kid , I think. One would think Amos would know about him. Nice size at 194 but athleticism is probably more important now.

[muttonchops]

Watching Jack Riewoldt last night , is there a more exciting player in the AFL? My bias perhaps but I like him much more than Franklin. More pack marks and I admire the way he has straighten up his kick to be a reliable convertor.
Probably a bit of the top , but his leap marking reminds me of GAS.

Jack's a turnstyle turner and I'd love to find a kid with that type ability and add him to our list.

We could have had Jack Darling maybe not the freakish sort of ability as a Reiwoldt but a gun forward all the same. Still wish we would have picked him.

[Turbocat]

We could have had Jack Darling maybe not the freakish sort of ability as a Reiwoldt but a gun forward all the same. Still wish we would have picked him.

I loved getting Guthrie and he probably will be a gun player for us but Darling could be anything. Thats is perhaps the issue , he is talented , everyone knew he was talented but was he going to become another player that takes a lot of maintenance. From that point of view , we have built our list & club by staying away from certain types why change now.

[The Pivotonian]

A rumour going around that Jackson Trengove of PA wants to move back to Victoria. He would be a nice fit as a young, mobile, big bodied defender.Shame we didn't nab him when we had the chance. ;)

[Turbocat]

Question for us to ponder ;

GWS have access to four additional 17-year-old selections.These players, born from January-April 1994, must all be traded during either the 2011 or 2012 trading periods.

Given the masterful foresight and the depth of knowledge that drafting staff have these days , these picks have the potential , no maybe even more than that , a high probability that they will deliver to the sides that acquire them a kid worthy of being a top 4 pick.

We all know that early doesn't equate to a guaranteed champion , and we know its not the only way to gather a champion but looking at the quality that usually is gathered from picks this early , we would be silly , imo , not explore getting one of these picks

So the question - What are we willing to give up to get one of these picks? and another , What will it take to get a deal done?

[AM]

Question for us to ponder ;

GWS have access to four additional 17-year-old selections.These players, born from January-April 1994, must all be traded during either the 2011 or 2012 trading periods.

Given the masterful foresight and the depth of knowledge that drafting staff have these days , these picks have the potential , no maybe even more than that , a high probability that they will deliver to the sides that acquire them a kid worthy of being a top 4 pick.

We all know that early doesn't equate to a guaranteed champion , and we know its not the only way to gather a champion but looking at the quality that usually is gathered from picks this early , we would be silly , imo , not explore getting one of these picks

So the question - What are we willing to give up to get one of these picks? and another , What will it take to get a deal done?

Appreciate it's a hypothetical Turbo and I'll be interested in reading the suggestions.

However, from a purely practical point of view, if Gubby Allen is true to his word and GWS follow the GC recruiting template to the letter offering draft picks is non negotiable.

[year of the cat]

Shame we didn't nab him when we had the chance. ;)


Nice, should have known that wouldn't have got past you:)

[Turbocat]

Appreciate it's a hypothetical Turbo and I'll be interested in reading the suggestions.

However, from a purely practical point of view, if Gubby Allen is true to his word and GWS follow the GC recruiting template to the letter offering draft picks is non negotiable.

Could you clarify that for us Ammo. I know we traded a pick for a pick , but Brisbane certainly traded Brennan for an upgrade and for some picks. So deals of player for picks where done.

Like all of us , I have no set idea what GWS would want or would see as a fair trade for these picks , but one difference that these picks have compared to normal picks are they must be traded or lost.

I doubt they will trade the picks for a couple blankets and some beads , metaphorically speaking so Id say players with only a year two left would of the list , certainly not without a sweetener. I'd love to say we could offer a borderline player or two but having a look at most of the other borderlines that gone elsewhere , they are still borderlines. If it was me , I would want a best 22 lock (min.1) plus a R1 pick and then see what all the clubs offer.

For us the player who fits the right age , is a best 22 would be Stokes. We could negotiate on a supplemental player/pick but thats where I'd start. I say Stokes because of age , experience and with the right offer he may decide to have a fresh start.

[thejester]

My understanding was that the whole point of the initiative was to force GWS to trade for mature players, but I'm not sure if that's been codified so to speak.

[AM]

Could you clarify that for us Ammo. I know we traded a pick for a pick , but Brisbane certainly traded Brennan for an upgrade and for some picks. So deals of player for picks where done.

Like all of us , I have no set idea what GWS would want or would see as a fair trade for these picks , but one difference that these picks have compared to normal picks are they must be traded or lost.

I doubt they will trade the picks for a couple blankets and some beads , metaphorically speaking so Id say players with only a year two left would of the list , certainly not without a sweetener. I'd love to say we could offer a borderline player or two but having a look at most of the other borderlines that gone elsewhere , they are still borderlines. If it was me , I would want a best 22 lock (min.1) plus a R1 pick and then see what all the clubs offer.

For us the player who fits the right age , is a best 22 would be Stokes. We could negotiate on a supplemental player/pick but thats where I'd start. I say Stokes because of age , experience and with the right offer he may decide to have a fresh start.


I appreciate the AFL introduced compensation picks for any club that loses a player and these are tradeable

However, I thought the tenor of your question was whether our club would initiate discussions by offering a player or players in exchange for one the GWS 8 priority draft picks and which player/players we would be prepared to give up to acquire one or more those picks.

My understanding is that the GC did not trade any of those picks and from the comments of Gubby Allen GWS intend following the template of the GC and that everyone of those early 8 picks is off limits. The same applies to their 8 rookie picks.

I must confess I've only taken a passing interest in the draft concessions given to the GC and GWS.

[Pure_Ownage]

Just read a good article on Patton in my local paper today. Gosh I wish we had a higher first round pick. I think there's some really good talls this year, but if all of Patton, Elton, Longer et al end up at GWS when we need some more talls, it will be quite depressing.

[Pure_Ownage]

I appreciate the AFL introduced compensation picks for any club that loses a player and these are tradeable

However, I thought the tenor of your question was whether our club would initiate discussions by offering a player or players in exchange for one the GWS 8 priority draft picks and which player/players we would be prepared to give up to acquire one or more those picks.

My understanding is that the GC did not trade any of those picks and from the comments of Gubby Allen GWS intend following the template of the GC and that everyone of those early 8 picks is off limits. The same applies to their 8 rookie picks.

I must confess I've only taken a passing interest in the draft concessions given to the GC and GWS.

You are confusing the 12 year old selections, if I am understanding you right, with the right to access to these 4 17 year olds. First of all they are slightly different because with the former GC/GWS could sign any player (if he was willing) aged 17, but these selections are specifically for players born Jan-April 1994 only.

You are thinking GC didn't trade the rights, when they never had the rights to trade. In any case, you are right, GWS won't trade their first round picks, in fact the whole mechanism with these 4 17 yo's I think is the AFL recognising they will find it harder to attract players, and they want them to get lots of senior players, but they don't want them to be forced to trade away the 1st rounders, so this way they can entice the clubs to give good players without giving up said picks. When you think that guys of the calibre of King, Lloyd etc came via this sort of mechanism, clubs will pay plenty for these kids.

Just to clarify, GC were able to sign 12 17 year olds (included Toy, Matera etc). GWS are also able to sign 12 17 year olds, and as far as I know they have signed all of them (Shiels, Bugg, Cameron etc). Neither of these clubs were allowed to trade these players. Either you sign them or you don't sign 12 (only if you're stupid) but you can't trade them. What GWS have been given, which GC never were given, is the ability to trade 4 17 yo's (again, the player has to agree to this) Jan-Apr 1994. By contrast to the '12', these players MUST be traded, it is a use it or lose it provision.

Slightly confusing I know, but hopefully that clarifies it.



Shame we didn't nab him when we had the chance. ;)

Pivo is back! Please come back more often and give us your quality U-18 insights this year :thumbsu: You must be very happy with how Mitch is going :)

Question for us to ponder ;

GWS have access to four additional 17-year-old selections.These players, born from January-April 1994, must all be traded during either the 2011 or 2012 trading periods.

Given the masterful foresight and the depth of knowledge that drafting staff have these days , these picks have the potential , no maybe even more than that , a high probability that they will deliver to the sides that acquire them a kid worthy of being a top 4 pick.

We all know that early doesn't equate to a guaranteed champion , and we know its not the only way to gather a champion but looking at the quality that usually is gathered from picks this early , we would be silly , imo , not explore getting one of these picks

So the question - What are we willing to give up to get one of these picks? and another , What will it take to get a deal done?

My understanding is that most of these kids, if eligible for the draft this year would go top 10, they'd certainly all go in the first round. Therefore you'd have to give at the minimum, a first round pick plus a player in your best 22 who has a few years of good service left. Since as jester said, it's to force them to trade for mature players, they'll want the best ones they can get.

I can easily see us offering a first rounder, plus a Stokes/Byrnes/JHunt type, but I doubt they would accept that.

One issue we have is that these kids are prized, they're not going to want to give up the rights for guys who won't play many more years, and we don't really have many guys who are aged 24-27 that are in our best 22, that we would be willing to give up. No way would we be willing to give up guys like Kelly, and rightly so. The clubs that will get the deals done will be the ones who have higher quality players who they can afford to get rid of who are in that age bracket, for that reason I don't really see us being involved.

[AM]

PO,

My understanding is that GWS has picks 2,3,5,7,11,13 and 15 in round 1 of the next NAB Draft.

It was those priority picks I was suggesting were non negotiable.

That's just information gleaned from a passing interest and I may well be wide of the mark.

[Pure_Ownage]

PO,

My understanding is that GWS has picks 2,3,5,7,11,13 and 15 in round 1 of the next NAB Draft.

It was those priority picks I was suggesting were non negotiable.

That's just information gleaned from a passing interest and I may well be wide of the mark.

Yeah they have those picks.

They're not non negotiable in the sense they could trade them if they wished, but the AFL would certainly prefer they didn't, which is a large part of the reason why they've been given the 4 17yo's.

[AM]

Yeah they have those picks.

They're not non negotiable in the sense they could trade them if they wished, but the AFL would certainly prefer they didn't, which is a large part of the reason why they've been given the 4 17yo's.

Yep! I meant not negotiable in the terms of my initial post in this thread in that Gubby Allen has said they were off limits in the same way GC took their prime picks off the table too.

[Turbocat]

Thanks PO. He has clarified the picks I was talking about.
There was 3 groups of picks for GWS.
The first group , the 12 u17's ( as PO said)
The second group , the 9 picks from top 15 in the 2011 National draft.
The third group 4 u17 picks that must be traded.

This third group that GWS have and GC did not are picks that MUST be traded that can be used to select kids born from Jan to April 1994 . Say again, MUST be traded or they lose them. So deals will be done

The second group , just like GC's , the top 9 in the first 15 can be traded but it will take an exceptional deal for it to happen. GC traded their Pick 5 for Pick10 but it was part of the Brennan deal. We got Smedts with the GC picks 15 but we gave them a future Pick11 to get it. Lets say Martin at Richmond has an almighty blow up with the coach for eg. , he say I want out , GWS would offer some of those picks but they won't use them to get a Scully because he is out of contract. Maybe some upgrade downgrade trades but they will probably keep at least 8

The players GWS will not be fossils . I agree with your assessment PO on having around 5 years min left in the player , I also don't think they will look at borderline players

This excludes the like of West or Josh Hunt. It would be interesting if they even looked at a high quality older guy. I wouldn't trade him but just for a name would an Enright type interest them. I'd say he may even be to old. So along with these guys who are best 22 players they will probably want an R1 pick.

We really don't have a lot in that group. So if they don't fancy Stokes or Byrnes or Mackie etc , the only way to get one of the u17 picks would be to use our other Ablett pick in conjunction with our R1 from 2012. It might seem a lot but other clubs will bid heavily as well.

[year of the cat]

I assume the 4 U17's that have to be traded are picked before the other 12 U17's that they keep?

On another note watching the Eagles tonight can't help but thinking that Darling would have been a great pickup....

[Turbocat]

I assume the 4 U17's that have to be traded are picked before the other 12 U17's that they keep?

On another note watching the Eagles tonight can't help but thinking that Darling would have been a great pickup....

the 12 U17's that they keep? - already picked an on their list. Done post the 2010 draft Tim Golds, Sam Darley, Dylan Shiel, Tomas Bugg and Adam Treloar etc.

U17's that have to be traded - to be traded in either 2011 or 2012. So they may even decided to not trade them this year , so they can trade to get very early R1 picks next year , say 4 pick in the top 10. To convince them to trade them this year the teams will have to offer something good.

[year of the cat]

the 12 U17's that they keep? - already picked an on their list. Done post the 2010 draft Tim Golds, Sam Darley, Dylan Shiel, Tomas Bugg and Adam Treloar etc.

U17's that have to be traded - to be traded in either 2011 or 2012. So they may even decided to not trade them this year , so they can trade to get very early R1 picks next year , say 4 pick in the top 10. To convince them to trade them this year the teams will have to offer something good.

Sorry have just re-read the thread and it's clarified it for me. Cheers.:)

[AM]

Thanks PO. He has clarified the picks I was talking about.
There was 3 groups of picks for GWS.
The first group , the 12 u17's ( as PO said)
The second group , the 9 picks from top 15 in the 2011 National draft.
The third group 4 u17 picks that must be traded.

This third group that GWS have and GC did not are picks that MUST be traded that can be used to select kids born from Jan to April 1994 . Say again, MUST be traded or they lose them. So deals will be done

The second group , just like GC's , the top 9 in the first 15 can be traded but it will take an exceptional deal for it to happen. GC traded their Pick 5 for Pick10 but it was part of the Brennan deal. We got Smedts with the GC picks 15 but we gave them a future Pick11 to get it. Lets say Martin at Richmond has an almighty blow up with the coach for eg. , he say I want out , GWS would offer some of those picks but they won't use them to get a Scully because he is out of contract. Maybe some upgrade downgrade trades but they will probably keep at least 8

The players GWS will not be fossils . I agree with your assessment PO on having around 5 years min left in the player , I also don't think they will look at borderline players

This excludes the like of West or Josh Hunt. It would be interesting if they even looked at a high quality older guy. I wouldn't trade him but just for a name would an Enright type interest them. I'd say he may even be to old. So along with these guys who are best 22 players they will probably want an R1 pick.

We really don't have a lot in that group. So if they don't fancy Stokes or Byrnes or Mackie etc , the only way to get one of the u17 picks would be to use our other Ablett pick in conjunction with our R1 from 2012. It might seem a lot but other clubs will bid heavily as well.

Gotcha Turbo. Should have picked that up in your earlier post.

It will be interesting to see whether there's much quality in those "must trade" four after GWS have picked the eyes out of the draft with all their other gifted draft picks which they have said are untouchable.

It appears to me that if GWS saw some value in holding off on trading those 4 picks until 2012 they can. Am I reading that correctly?

[Turbocat]

It appears to me that if GWS saw some value in holding off on trading those 4 picks until 2012 they can. Am I reading that correctly?

The way I understand it , they can hold off but must trade them by the end of 2012 trade period , which is before the 2012 draft. The kids they have taken early basically would qualify for this years draft ie. born 93. The special 4 are from Jan to April 94 , ie 2012 draft. (which is supposed to be quite deep and a good standard)

So in theory you are gaining access to a selection before draft irrelevant of finishing position. It would be like at 2001 draft and teams have rights to 4 players before the draft and remove Hodge , Ball , Judd and Bartel before the draft even starts.

[Pure_Ownage]

I assume the 4 U17's that have to be traded are picked before the other 12 U17's that they keep?

On another note watching the Eagles tonight can't help but thinking that Darling would have been a great pickup....

Darling will be a player but we all know he has off field issues and that's why we steered clear of him. Given the character and work ethic of our young kids, I'm glad we didn't take the risk.

Gotcha Turbo. Should have picked that up in your earlier post.

It will be interesting to see whether there's much quality in those "must trade" four after GWS have picked the eyes out of the draft with all their other gifted draft picks which they have said are untouchable.

It appears to me that if GWS saw some value in holding off on trading those 4 picks until 2012 they can. Am I reading that correctly?

As far as I understand the 4 X 17 yo 'must trades' are not eligible for this year's draft anyway (due to age) so it's the 2012 pool that is diluted, not this year's. There'll still be quality kids like OMeara, Yarran etc for the must trades because they can't go this year but will go top 10 next year if they're not traded.

[Pure_Ownage]

Thanks PO. He has clarified the picks I was talking about.
There was 3 groups of picks for GWS.
The first group , the 12 u17's ( as PO said)
The second group , the 9 picks from top 15 in the 2011 National draft.
The third group 4 u17 picks that must be traded.

This third group that GWS have and GC did not are picks that MUST be traded that can be used to select kids born from Jan to April 1994 . Say again, MUST be traded or they lose them. So deals will be done

The second group , just like GC's , the top 9 in the first 15 can be traded but it will take an exceptional deal for it to happen. GC traded their Pick 5 for Pick10 but it was part of the Brennan deal. We got Smedts with the GC picks 15 but we gave them a future Pick11 to get it. Lets say Martin at Richmond has an almighty blow up with the coach for eg. , he say I want out , GWS would offer some of those picks but they won't use them to get a Scully because he is out of contract. Maybe some upgrade downgrade trades but they will probably keep at least 8

The players GWS will not be fossils . I agree with your assessment PO on having around 5 years min left in the player , I also don't think they will look at borderline players

This excludes the like of West or Josh Hunt. It would be interesting if they even looked at a high quality older guy. I wouldn't trade him but just for a name would an Enright type interest them. I'd say he may even be to old. So along with these guys who are best 22 players they will probably want an R1 pick.

We really don't have a lot in that group. So if they don't fancy Stokes or Byrnes or Mackie etc , the only way to get one of the u17 picks would be to use our other Ablett pick in conjunction with our R1 from 2012. It might seem a lot but other clubs will bid heavily as well.

I would agree with that. I reckon they'll want guys aged 24-27 who'll give them about 5 solid years while their kids develop (keep in mind they can't afford to be uncompetitive early in that market). They'll want clubs best players but they'll be realistic about what they'll get, they'll take good quality players in each club's middle tier (let's say outside your top 6, but not below your best 16). The problem is the quality ones we have we either rightly won't trade (e.g. Kelly) and the others are too old (e.g. Boris). If you think about this criteria of what GWS will want Josh Hunt is too old and too fringe, and Byrnes/Stokes are too fringe. The only one they might find acceptable is Mackie, but he'd have to seriously find his form of years gone by for them to be interested.

The other thing I don't know is whether clubs can trade picks and players for the selections, or whether they can only trade players. If it's the former I can see us offering our first rounder plus a decent player, and we might even offer a decent player plus the compo pick if we're guaranteed to get an absolute solid gold top 5 pick quality player (keeping in mind the kids have to agree to be signed by GWS and have to agree to be signed by the on trade club). But if we can't trade picks I can't see how we can get a deal done. Other clubs who have more good players in the middle agre bracket that they are prepared to get rid of will find it easier to do these deals.

[Turbocat]

As far as I understand the 4 X 17 yo 'must trades' are not eligible for this year's draft anyway (due to age) so it's the 2012 pool that is diluted, not this year's. There'll still be quality kids like OMeara, Yarran etc for the must trades because they can't go this year but will go top 10 next year if they're not traded.

Thats how I understand it too , those 4 are taken out of the 2012 draft but this would still be less affected than 2010 and 2011 with the 12 taken early for GC and GWS and if a 2012 is a super draft like 2001 or 2006 I doubt 4 players will the top quality that much.

If the GWS hold off on trading them this year , I believe the kids are then taken from the Jan to April 95 group , and I don't know how good or bad that group is expected to be

[Turbocat]

Sam GORDON 43 Geelong Falcons 31-Mar-93 197 87 Camperdown/ Geelong Grammar

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2011/04/19/254191_local_sports.html

http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2010/01/13/137621_geelong_sports.html

I have not seen this kid but everything I read about him makes me think he should be of interest to us.

He is 197 and is probably going to be close to 200 by the time he finishes growing. He is the Falcons leading goal kicker with 10 in 3 games. He will probably start with the APS soon so I may not get to see him , hopefully plays in the Champs. Turner has apparently compared him to Johno Brown , we all know what Turner is like but at the min , we should keep his name on our list.

[Balony_pony16]

anyone know the name of that SA kid who beat some of Chris Judds test at a AFL school development/testing day recently?

held in adelaide

[Turbocat]

Guys , watching the Gold Coast game last night , it made me wonder ...

Who will be the first kid another team snatches back from them?

Last night , Tom Lynch came in and looked another potential CHF. Liam Patrick comes in and looks another Jarrah , Day looks like he could fly to the moon , where does it going stop. They have so much talent and even if they win a few games , I doubt all of them will or can be kept happy?

Will Bennell want to go back to WA or will Swallow be tempted to join his brother? Maybe but I think its more likely to be a guy not getting a game.

I hope our reps are having a quite word to the likes of Caddy who is not getting game. Player get more home sick playing 2's. Very smart player that would be at home in our next group.

[Pure_Ownage]

I have heard the first player who is likely to come home is Caddy (who playing anywhere, he's injured).

KPP wise would be nice to lure Lynch back, very talented.

Pity all of GC's most talented kids seem to be forwards because we could really use a quality key back.

[thejester]

A lot of water to go under the bridge before these young guys are out of contract, and even though GC's salary cap and list size will be contracting annually they've got plenty of chaff in the form of VFL holdovers, older poached players like Fraser and their Qld zone selections.

In other news: Champs fixture released (http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/113101/default.aspx). July 1st, lock it in.

[Turbocat]

I have heard the first player who is likely to come home is Caddy (who playing anywhere, he's injured).

KPP wise would be nice to lure Lynch back, very talented.

Pity all of GC's most talented kids seem to be forwards because we could really use a quality key back.

Geelong love those tall mid guys that can almost play a KP. Bartel seems to be there model , a super strong overhead that enables him to play in other positions.I could even see him moving back when other are ready for the midfield role. Smedts seems to be like this and Caddy would also fit.

Pure , I was having a read on the D&T board , the 4*u17 thread where you where debating the kid Stringer. If he is a mid then he would also fit this mould. At 191 he has Joel Corey height yet if talented enough he could play elsewhere. I think Darling is only 191 for instance.

Trading that Ablett pick for a kid whether its Stringer or anyone else must be tenuous right now. How much is it really worth? Who would trade for it when we look like being up the top for a while yet? Perhaps teams like GC & GWS who have time to wait till our core oldies go and will want to stagger their list a bit.

[Turbocat]

Pretty bored after Fri Night game. So I thought Id come back on here and bump it again.

There was a thread on our main board about Walker from the Crows , a "IF - would we" ... sort of thing .

For me , in a GWS type market I wouldn't go near him for the dollars that he probably will be offered. The big tempt would be the talent that he has shown in an area we seem to have a weakness in.

In fact if you look at our forwardline right now , one would have to say its so unlike the rest of our setup. In almost every position we have players consider in League best. Even Lonergan is now gettting cudos as an elite backman , something most us never thought would happen.
But our forwardline is nowhere near it. In fact if it wasn't for the most fortunate listing of Podisaidly we would now be in dire straights.

Yes we have Brown and perhaps Vardy in the pipeline. But to expect anything other than cameo type performances from either would be optimistic. Thats fine if we are in rebuild mode but if the very talented mids we have put together keep coming on as Menzel,Duncan and now Bundy have we will not be dropping off any time soon.

So is there another Pods type out there? Perhaps a Mzungu , Barlow type , just waiting for a chance. Admittedly mids are probably more plentiful but I wonder if there is one somewhere just waiting for a chance.

[year of the cat]

Brown really is our great white hope. Hopefully with another pre-season under his belt he can become the tall forward target that we are after. As you say it still may be a few seasons before we can realistically expect him to be a force at AFL level.

With Mooney gone at years end and Pods probably with only one further season left we also desperately need Hawkins to step up and be a 2-3 goal a game KPF. Perhaps Vardy can move into his role next year as that mobile ruckman/resting KPF allowing Tom to settle in as a permanent FF or CHF.

That is the ideal scenario. That the Brown/Hawkins/Vardy group come through. You would think though that we need to get a little insurance. Whether that is drafting another tall kid (remembering we also have Walker on the rookie list) or we look to recruit a mature aged tall (*except Fevola) I'm not sure. It's not like they grow on trees. Targeting one of the Suns talls is another option. Surely they won't be able to keep them all. Nevertheless they are kids as well and will take time to come through.

In my opinion a greater need is finding a replacement for Scarlett. I have no confidence that Gillies will be good enough. We need to be drafting a player this year or trading for one soon in order to be ready for his retirement.

[Turbocat]

In my opinion a greater need is finding a replacement for Scarlett. I have no confidence that Gillies will be good enough. We need to be drafting a player this year or trading for one soon in order to be ready for his retirement.

I have not seen the VFL play this year but several reports have Bathie and Mackay looking likely types down back, add that Walker is get a run there and Weston was talked up before he was injured and I would say we have a very good chance of having a tall defender already in our system. Will they be a replacement for Scarlett? No , but who will be? Agree with you on Gillies.

Meanwhile at the other end? We likely kids but very few times can you rely on kids to play a regular performing role in the forwardline. Thats why I was thinking a mature guy around 24-25 , that has been a late bloomer etc.

[Pure_Ownage]

Mackay? I think you mean McLean? Looks good but is 28. Although that didn't stop some other guy last year :D

Bathie is showing very good signs but it still very raw.

Weston is not a key defender, I have big wraps on him but I reckon he'll end replacing Milburn if anything.

CS said on tweet the coach that Walker is playing back because they haven't got room for one more tall forward (with having to fit three rucks in the team at times plus Brown and Johnson) but that long term they see him as a forward.

I'm not writing Gillies off yet but we definitely do need to get another key defender, but is there much depth in that area in this year's pool? is the question.

I'm not sure we should specifically go mature age but it's a possibility, I'm a lot of more mature VFL guys will be looked at this year, so maybe we will too for a suitable defender.

The forward line I'm actually comfortable with because Brown and Vardy are real talents.

It's more the defence and ruck that worry me.

[Turbocat]

Mackay? I think you mean McLean? Looks good but is 28. Although that didn't stop some other guy last year :D

Bathie is showing very good signs but it still very raw.

Weston is not a key defender, I have big wraps on him but I reckon he'll end replacing Milburn if anything.

CS said on tweet the coach that Walker is playing back because they haven't got room for one more tall forward (with having to fit three rucks in the team at times plus Brown and Johnson) but that long term they see him as a forward.

I'm not writing Gillies off yet but we definitely do need to get another key defender, but is there much depth in that area in this year's pool? is the question.

I'm not sure we should specifically go mature age but it's a possibility, I'm a lot of more mature VFL guys will be looked at this year, so maybe we will too for a suitable defender.

The forward line I'm actually comfortable with because Brown and Vardy are real talents.

It's more the defence and ruck that worry me.

Yes , my error. McLean keeps getting good reports but whether he is AFL standard only those internally would know.
Bathie , is a LongShot type recruit. Has there really ever been a topclass player from a non AFL background? Not sure nut he may develop with time into good to very good player.
Weston , again I do agree. When I have seen Weston , he is more a rebounding HB type but I have read reports of him playing as keyback at stages last year.
Walker , back or forward , he has potential. Lonergan has shown how time can shape a player so he is still in a very early stage.

There was concern by several on the board when we got Pods , because they thought he would stifle others development. Yet he has gone past all in that position. Perhaps Im pulling the trigger a bit early but could Brown or Vardy really hold up the role he is doing? I doubt it.
The rucks playing forward in VFL is an issue but I think we will be a couple of Rucks lighter next year.

[muttonchops]

So is there another Pods type out there? Perhaps a Mzungu , Barlow type , just waiting for a chance. Admittedly mids are probably more plentiful but I wonder if there is one somewhere just waiting for a chance.

If i recall correctly didn't we employ a new recruiter at the start of the year to specifically scout the state leagues (VFL, SANFL, WAFL) for these sorts of players. Chris Scott would have seen forst hand at Freo the success with these types (Barlow, Broughton etc). I think there could be some value out there and it appears we are looking. A lot of good players have come through state leagues to play the last couple of years like Curnow, Hibberd, Hardingham, Howlett, Duigan, Barlow the list is a long one.

[Cataholic]

Hey guys,

Do you know how to make direct contact with the club's recruiting department, and / or scout/s?

I sent an email requesting such info, and an outline of my reason, to the club via the link on it's website, but haven't received a reply to date.

[Turbocat]

I've been told to keep an eye on Boseley of the Falcons. Ready made full back.

On Future Stars today , sure that will make watched from now on. Actually looked a nice type , they compared him Fletcher , maybe it was the Redhair.

[year of the cat]

On Future Stars today , sure that will make watched from now on. Actually looked a nice type , they compared him Fletcher , maybe it was the Redhair.


Looked lightly built at this stage but that is to be expected. Scarlett was a stick himself when drafted. Anyone know how tall Boseley is?

[Turbocat]

Looked lightly built at this stage but that is to be expected. Scarlett was a stick himself when drafted. Anyone know how tall Boseley is?

TAC website has him as 194 , so nice size

[Pure_Ownage]

TAC website has him as 194 , so nice size

Reasonable height.

We could put the kgs on him if need be.

Thanks for the heads up guys, I didn't know Future Stars was back so soon. :thumbsu:

[Turbocat]

Reasonable height.

We could put the kgs on him if need be.

Thanks for the heads up guys, I didn't know Future Stars was back so soon. :thumbsu:

Not sure what we can really gauge in 20 seconds of video but he did look like the type of player Geelong likes . He backs himself in the air , took a nice mark behind the forward with a good vertical. Was used on the way out so may have reasonable disposal.Turns 19 in Sept.

If we are to recruit a backman , we could do a lot worse. What pick is he worth is always the issue.

[year of the cat]

Not sure what we can really gauge in 20 seconds of video but he did look like the type of player Geelong likes . He backs himself in the air , took a nice mark behind the forward with a good vertical. Was used on the way out so may have reasonable disposal.Turns 19 in Sept.

If we are to recruit a backman , we could do a lot worse. What pick is he worth is always the issue.

With that ONE kick shown his footskills look ok as well!!

[thejester]

Hopefully he gets a run for Country and we can get an extended look at him. Squads haven't been announced yet but it can't be long.

[Cataholic]

Hey guys,

Do you know how to make direct contact with the club's recruiting department, and / or scout/s?

I sent an email requesting such info, and an outline of my reason, to the club via the link on it's website, but haven't received a reply to date.


Anyone??

[thejester]

Mate I know the guy who runs footydraft.com (posts on here - ben_cats_fan maybe?) was in contact with Wells last year and rizzo might have a clue, but beyond that I've got no idea.

[Cataholic]

Mate I know the guy who runs footydraft.com (posts on here - ben_cats_fan maybe?) was in contact with Wells last year and rizzo might have a clue, but beyond that I've got no idea.

Thanks TJ.

It's a long shot I know, but I want to bring the clubs attention to a young guy (18 y.o) that lives with my partner and I.

I know it's a long shot, but he is a very good footballer, and had someone from Collingwood tell him that they're watching him and would like to see him step up to the next league.

He's a great kid, and a Cats supporter! It's probably not likely, but if it were to ever happen I'd prefer to see him in the blue and white hoops!

Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, and then I can at least say I tried.

[year of the cat]

Thanks TJ.

It's a long shot I know, but I want to bring the clubs attention to a young guy (18 y.o) that lives with my partner and I.

I know it's a long shot, but he is a very good footballer, and had someone from Collingwood tell him that they're watching him and would like to see him step up to the next league.

He's a great kid, and a Cats supporter! It's probably not likely, but if it were to ever happen I'd prefer to see him in the blue and white hoops!

Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, and then I can at least say I tried.


If he is tall, can take a contested mark and kick straight then give Wells a call!!

[thejester]

Thanks TJ.

It's a long shot I know, but I want to bring the clubs attention to a young guy (18 y.o) that lives with my partner and I.

I know it's a long shot, but he is a very good footballer, and had someone from Collingwood tell him that they're watching him and would like to see him step up to the next league.

He's a great kid, and a Cats supporter! It's probably not likely, but if it were to ever happen I'd prefer to see him in the blue and white hoops!

Hopefully someone can point me in the right direction, and then I can at least say I tried.
Well that's how Rooke ended up at the club - his dad sent them a video of him playing for Castlemaine and he got rookied.

That said his best hope would be to try and get into the system; not sure what avenue that would take at 'a good place', though ;)

[Cataholic]

If he is tall, can take a contested mark and kick straight then give Wells a call!!

He's over the 6' mark, has a nice kick, and regularly takes a contested mark.

He plays across the backline, and is widely considered to be one of the best in the league. He is regularly selected for senior representative sides, and has another such game in the near future. He has also been selected by, and played for, the Tassie Mariner's, before he was moved interstate by his family.

Understandably, he struggled to accept the death of his best mate - my partners youngest son - two years ago, and a family breakdown saw him return to the state.

We took him in, and he has lived with us full time ever since. He's a great young man, and it would be amazing to give him an opportunity to take his footy further.

[thejester]

We've drafted/rookied pretty consistently from Tassie the last few years Cataholic - Moles, Allwright and Burbury.

[thejester]

Ok so squads for the Champs are in, you can download the full record here. (http://www.afl.com.au/development/nabaflrisingatarsprogram/nabunder18s/tabid/276/default.aspx) Couple of points:

- Boseley made the Country side so hopefully we'll get a good look at him;

- Beau Black who AFAIK is still one of our scholarship kids made the Rams squad.

[Catlad]

Any news on Jed Bews?

There's a guy playing for Tassie U18's called Thor. CAN WE PLEASE DRAFT HIM?????

[Turbocat]

Ok so squads for the Champs are in, you can download the full record here. (http://www.afl.com.au/development/nabaflrisingatarsprogram/nabunder18s/tabid/276/default.aspx) Couple of points:

- Boseley made the Country side so hopefully we'll get a good look at him;

- Beau Black who AFAIK is still one of our scholarship kids made the Rams squad.

Actually a few of the Falcons id be very interested in.

20. - Lachlan Edwards , 08/02/1993 187 80 Geelong Falcons / Belmont Lions / Newtown

24. - Jay Lever , 15/06/1993 200 86 Geelong Falcons / South Barwon FC

26. - Andrew Boseley , 04/09/1992 194 80 Geelong Falcons / South Barwon FC

34. - Sam Gordon , 31/03/1993 197 87 Geelong Falcons / Camperdown FC

Gordon is one who Im very interested in seeing , some have said he plays a bit like Johno Brown. Looks like Bews didn't make the squad. Not such a bad thing. Means if we want him he will not cost us much.

[year of the cat]

On another topic would you look at trading for Shaun Hampson if he wanted out at years end? With Ottens gone, Blake's papers all but signed and West/Simpson yet to convince us they're long term prospects would he be worth a look at the right price?

Very athletic with the ability to go forward and take a mark. Seems like the prototype modern ruckman. May lack a bit of football nouse. Is he another West in that he could be anything but probably won't be?

[AM]

On another topic would you look at trading for Shaun Hampson if he wanted out at years end? With Ottens gone, Blake's papers all but signed and West/Simpson yet to convince us their long term prospects would he be worth a look at the right price?

Very athletic with the ability to go forward and take a mark. Seems like the prototype modern ruckman. May lack a bit of football nouse. Is he another West in that he could be anything but probably won't be?

Only if Megan Gale is part of the package.:D

[year of the cat]

Only if Megan Gale is part of the package.:D

More of a Jennifer Hawkins man myself;)

[Pure_Ownage]

On another topic would you look at trading for Shaun Hampson if he wanted out at years end? With Ottens gone, Blake's papers all but signed and West/Simpson yet to convince us their long term prospects would he be worth a look at the right price?

Very athletic with the ability to go forward and take a mark. Seems like the prototype modern ruckman. May lack a bit of football nouse. Is he another West in that he could be anything but probably won't be?

Nah, Hampson strikes me as one of those super athlete ordinary footballer types, seems to lack footy smarts (ok megan might indicate some smarts, but on the field he seems not so smart).

If were to go down the trade for young ruckman track I'd much rather we had a crack at a Leuenberger/Clark/Goldstein, ok unattainable dream I know, or more realistically Bellchambers or McKernan. McIntosh is the wrong side of 25 now because he'd have interested me otherwise.

Any news on Jed Bews?

There's a guy playing for Tassie U18's called Thor. CAN WE PLEASE DRAFT HIM?????

Sorry, name is too similar to Thurley for my liking :D

On Beau Black, I'm pretty sure he played for us a few weeks ago against the AIS, so that would suggest he's definitely still tied to us.

Hope we have a look at Bews.

[Pure_Ownage]

I drool over Elton. Sadly he will go top 10 (and we probably won't get a look at Longer or Bolger either :().

Hey does anyone know if Sam Dobson is related to Ben Dobson who played for our VFL team last year? Since they both come from the same club I was wondering.

[year of the cat]

Does anyone think that the club would consider trading Hawkins to GWS in exchange for one of these 17 year old kids? I wonder whether the club may finally lose patience if his form fails to improve. GWS may feel that a change of scenery may be just what Tom needs to fulfil his potential..